Number 4 Lock choices for the Lions tour to Australia

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice. I am going to provide two threads on Locks, so that you can decide who your pairing will be

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Blindside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42514-blindside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

Does every one wishing to take par understand the OP???

You have one vote.

There for vote for one lock on this thread and one on the other

hahahaha

Bump!

Well done

So what you think mate.

Who's your call?

Gray and AW Jones ahead here.

Remember that all votes for each player will be added together at the end.

So it shouldn't matter which thread you vote for that player.

JUST DON'T VOTE FOR THEM TWICE

Maybe should split the 4s from the 5s.

Gray is miles off of form I wouldn't take him on tour ditto Lawes. Hell I'd take Ed Slater over either of those two.

Joe Launchbery for me. Why? Because i am English and i think he deserves to go on the Lions tour.

What i do not understand is that Paul O'Connell is on the List. why? He has not played for about a year or more. SO WHY PUT HIM ON THE LIST?

Paul O'Connell played last night and last week. A lot of people think he should go on other threads so I thought he should be included.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Maybe should split the 4s from the 5s.

Gray is miles off of form I wouldn't take him on tour ditto Lawes. Hell I'd take Ed Slater over either of those two.

To you he might be off form, to anyone who watches rugby he is injured, before that he actually was playing quite well for club and country As

Madge
As far as POC is concerned ahem............ he's played at least for the last two matches

flyhalffactory wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Maybe should split the 4s from the 5s.

Gray is miles off of form I wouldn't take him on tour ditto Lawes. Hell I'd take Ed Slater over either of those two.

To you he might be off form, to anyone who watches rugby he is injured, before that he actually was playing quite well for club and country

As young athletic talent I think he could be a really good player to tour. If he can get back from injury he could thrive in the environment.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Maybe should split the 4s from the 5s.

Thought about that but some people will see a 4 and a five differently to others.

This poll is what it is and will give a good result.

flyhalffactory wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Maybe should split the 4s from the 5s.

Gray is miles off of form I wouldn't take him on tour ditto Lawes. Hell I'd take Ed Slater over either of those two.

To you he might be off form, to anyone who watches rugby he is injured, before that he actually was playing quite well for club and country As

Madge
As far as POC is concerned ahem............ he's played at least for the last two matches

Did not know he was back playing for his club to be honest...Still do not think he should go due too lack of game time.

majesticimperialman wrote:Joe Launchbery for me. Why? Because i am English

Classic

Last Years poll results

https://www.606v2.com/t26916-lock-choices-of-the-home-nations?highlight=TiHooker+Choices+of+the+Home+Nations

From the other thread

Ian Evans 29% [ 8 ]
Geoff Parling 19% [ 5 ]
Nathan Hines 15% [ 4 ]
Paul O'Connell 11% [ 3 ]
Richie Gray 11% [ 3 ]
Donnacha Ryan 7% [ 2 ]
AW Jones 4% [ 1 ]
Joe Launchbury 4% [ 1 ]
Courtney Lawes 0%
Donnacha O'Callaghan 0%
Mick McCarthy 0%
Andrew Coombs 0%
Jim Hamilton 0%
Ali Kellock 0%
Courtney Lawes 0%
Donnacha O'Callaghan 0%

Over all the four top voted locks look like this

AW Jones 30% [ 8 ]
Ian Evans 29% [ 8 ]
Richie Gray 26% [ 7 ]
Geoff Parling 19% [ 5 ]

Paul O'Connell

AWJ and Richie Gray leading

The Pack so far is looking like this


Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

To you he might be off form, to anyone who watches rugby he is injured, before that he actually was playing quite well for club and country

Not sure why I'm going to respond to something quite so rude but here we go. One passable game for Sale pre 6N and then a mediocre 6N for Scotland would indicate poor form in my opinion. I've seen a number of Sale games this season (because I do watch rugby thanks) and he has been extremely poor. Sale are actually looking better today with the Russian lock partnering Myall.

Gray is neither a lineout technician nor an enforcer. He requires whoever he partners to take on both roles. Sure he's useful ball in hand and can jump in the middle of the line but his performances for Sale have been really poor. You know It's bad when most consider him a worse signing than Cipriani.

maestegmafia wrote:The Pack so far is looking like this


Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

Despite picking Faletau at No8 I really like look of that back row but doubt very much thats what it will be.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

To you he might be off form, to anyone who watches rugby he is injured, before that he actually was playing quite well for club and country

Not sure why I'm going to respond to something quite so rude but here we go. One passable game for Sale pre 6N and then a mediocre 6N for Scotland would indicate poor form in my opinion. I've seen a number of Sale games this season (because I do watch rugby thanks) and he has been extremely poor. Sale are actually looking better today with the Russian lock partnering Myall.

Gray is neither a lineout technician nor an enforcer. He requires whoever he partners to take on both roles. Sure he's useful ball in hand and can jump in the middle of the line but his performances for Sale have been really poor. You know It's bad when most consider him a worse signing than Cipriani.

According to this polling most on 606V2 see Gray as a Lions lock.

I agree he has not been inspiring in a dreadful Sale Sharks outfit, is that his fault? Though when back in the Royal Blue of Scotland i thought he was playing very well indeed. Until injured.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The Pack so far is looking like this


Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

Despite picking Faletau at No8 I really like look of that back row but doubt very much thats what it will be.

Aye Bedford mate good points...

Shall we continue this discussion about backrows the Blindside thread...?

Went Ryan and Hines. Happy enough to see Evans, Launchbury in their place though

SYNOPSIS OF THE POLL SO FAR...

Forwards

Cian Healy 41% 31
Rory Best 49% 37
Adam Jones 62% 36
Richie Gray 16% 22
Geoff Parling 14% 23
Chris Robshaw 27% 16
Justin Tipuric 44% 22
John Beattie 37% 22 (Toby Faletau 1 vote short)

Backs

Ben Youngs 54% 27
Jonny Sexton 44% 18
Jamie Roberts is tied with Billy Twelvetrees 31% 4
Manu Tuilagi 50% 7 (Brian O'Driscoll is 1 vote short)

For all the people saying on various threads how unimpressed they are with AW Jones he has commanded a decent sized vote here, if Gray doesn't pull through injury he will likely be our man.

maestegmafia wrote:For all the people saying on various threads how unimpressed they are with AW Jones he has commanded a decent sized vote here, if Gray doesn't pull through injury he will likely be our man.

Same can be said for Parling - has been slated on these boards as useless yet in the two second row votes has 28 votes. (Gray 26, AWJ 19, Evans 18)

Don't know what to make of AWJ, he was very poor in both games vs Tigers in the HEC, particularly in the first where his football style shout at the ref technique hindered his side significantly. For Wales he was very good, well when fit in the 6N he was very good. In the game against England his contribution to the engine room was impressive. Which AWJ will turn up on tour?

According to this polling most on 606V2 see Gray as a Lions lock

Maestag I think a good number of the Rabo fans are voting based on reputation and 6N having not seen his dire season in a Sale shirt.

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...


Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15


Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11


Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20


Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17


Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)


Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10


Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10


Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6


Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)


Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9


Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7


Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5


Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

what is the story with Gray's injury?

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:what is the story with Gray's injury?

Should be back in 3 weeks, one of our Edinburgh residents has seen him walking around the city, so the injury isn't as bad as intitally feared. He is currently recieving treatment at the Murrayfield spire.

If the Wallabies play a combo like Horwill and McMeniman, then we'll need something like Evans/Parling/Hines and Gray/Lawes.

The comment about Gray not being a lineout technician is completely wrong. He ran the Glasgow lineout for a number of seasons and it was one of the most effective in the Celtic league.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:what is the story with Gray's injury?

Should be back in 3 weeks, one of our Edinburgh residents has seen him walking around the city, so the injury isn't as bad as intitally feared. He is currently recieving treatment at the Murrayfield spire.

Unlikely to play any rugby then before the tour starts.

This is a really interesting read, thanks for doing the polls MaestegMafia.

There's a number of lock combinations I wouldn't mind seeing for the Lions, but I am drawn to a Evans & Launchbury pairing for some reason.

Other than lacking a traditional line out caller, I think they could be more than decent.

Would expect the touring locks to be Evans, Parling, AWJ, and Launchbury

LondonTiger wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:what is the story with Gray's injury?

Should be back in 3 weeks, one of our Edinburgh residents has seen him walking around the city, so the injury isn't as bad as intitally feared. He is currently recieving treatment at the Murrayfield spire.

Unlikely to play any rugby then before the tour starts.

That's true, however his form in the 6N games he played in was good. If he is fit enough I reckon he should and probably will tour. He did play in some really high intensity matches in the 6N vs. England, Italy and Ireland.

Will that be enough to see him go? I don't know. I hope so.

Raises the interesting question of the extent to which featuring in marquee games at the end of the season will enhance your chances. If they matter, then Gray may be slightly in the doo-doo.

In comparison, if Clermont wins the Heineken Cup (which I think they will) and if Hines plays a major part in the semi-final and final (which I think he will) then who's to say he won't travel instead?

POC 7% looks a bit daft after first half today. Good news for Lions.
Looks better than them all at the moment.

POC really put his hand up today a masterful performance

He certainly performed well, it was a game won by the forwards and they all worked very hard. I don't know what to make of it though, POC suits the style of play Munster have, will Lions be looking to perform choke tackles and commit large numbers to rucks? If so I'd have POC at 5. in a heart beat.

POC had a great game today. But in all honesty did he really do enough to warrant a place on the Lions tour?..

Yes he got Man of the Match. But does that automaticly make him potential (1) Lions contender? (2)Lions Captain?

Luckily for POC he now has another chance to shine on the highest club stage.

I'd gamble on him personally.

POC, Gray, Evans, Launchbury, Ryan

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Luckily for POC he now has another chance to shine on the highest club stage.

I'd gamble on him personally.

POC, Gray, Evans, Launchbury, Ryan

I'm always amazed by your choice of certain players, AWJ is one that intrigues me, he is the better of Evans, Launchbury, Ryan and POC in every way physically, and has a skill set beyond most back rowers. He is the first name on the Ospreys and Wales team sheet to anyone who has coached him, watched him train or have had 2nd hand contact with a guy who knew a guy who saw him in the gym.

IMHO AWj, Evans and Launchbury are all but on the plane, Grey joins them if fit, and the rest of Parling, Ryan, Hamilton, POC and Hines are all fighting for a final spot.

Right now I would go for POC on firt halfs performance, he offers more of that pro atmosphere, and leadership too!

I wouldn't take Awful Wyn Jones as tea boy, I think he's the most overrated lock in the NH.

He'd be way way down my personal list of potential Lions second rowers.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I wouldn't take Awful Wyn Jones as tea boy, I think he's the most overrated lock in the NH.

He'd be way way down my personal list of potential Lions second rowers.

Tell me something I don't know, what I was asking was why you dislike the guy so much! He is fitter, faster, stronger and way more intense than Ian Evans, who IMHO is currently a certain test starter, and was head and shoulders above any other lock in the 6N.

I have had the privalige of seeing a few O's training sessions (after the inquisition and nod from numerous people) and watching players like Jones, Hibbard, James (at the time) Evans, Jones, Tipuric etc all be lead by him, joke about his intensity, and at times applaud his ability is just a pleasure to watch. He is by my reckoning the most intense, and physically dominant player at the O's, Wales and possibly in the world.

I can understand why the few don't rate him, he was rather lightweight and unfocused early on in his career, and he had to work immensely hard to get out of Evans shadow as the quiter duller classy one of the pair, but that can't be said any more, not by a long shot.

He does have too many off games for my liking, where I think he focusses too much on what he should be doing to play his natural game, but those are becoming fewer and further between.

Everyone I have spoken to regarding him all use the same descriptive words, and he is being touted as lions captain by players and coaches alike.

Before you mention it no, I havn't met him properly, and know little of who he is, so I am not a fan of his, just of what I have seen him do.

The way he trains, benches, farts means very little to my opinion of Jones (no offence lol).

What I see is the final product on the pitch and I think he's distinctly average. He plays like a 5 wanting to be a 4 in simple terms.

He has the powderpuff physicality of Parling without the lineout work.

He has one good game every 10-15 when the rest of the pack is on top. I'm not including the Rabo in this btw.

I really really don't rate him as a player or leader. I'd be more inclined to take Borthwick over AWJ and I don't like Borthwick one bit.

After todays performance paul o'connell may well have got himself a ticket to australia. A good performance against clermont and a possible (though remote) chance to play in the HC final could see him as potential captain once more.

Surprised Evans is so low at the moment. He was superb last year in the GS and was even better this year after coming into the tournament on the back of hardly any games. I thought he was outstanding throughout the tournament and would be in my Lions starting side.

It won't be Robson, I tell you that

Sgt_Pooly wrote:The way he trains, benches, farts means very little to my opinion of Jones (no offence lol).

What I see is the final product on the pitch and I think he's distinctly average. He plays like a 5 wanting to be a 4 in simple terms.

He has the powderpuff physicality of Parling without the lineout work.

He has one good game every 10-15 when the rest of the pack is on top. I'm not including the Rabo in this btw.

I really really don't rate him as a player or leader. I'd be more inclined to take Borthwick over AWJ and I don't like Borthwick one bit.

So your basing your opinions on this injury blighted year? Powderpuff is the least informed expression I've ever heard of him, Parling is a little lightweight, which showed against Wales (not that he was the only one) but to listen to props such as Adam Jones claim his daughter would be competitive on the international stage scrummaging wise with AWJ in the engine room can only be the highest compliment!!

I get the lineout issues, he tends to have to think out loud there, but in every other department he is probably one of the best around.

I personally don't buy into the positional attributes of 4 and 5 anymore, if a lock is good enough he can partner just about anyone, and if he isn't good enough to partner anyone (do every job) then IMHO he isn't good enough full stop!!