Hooker choices for the Lions tour to Australia

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Blindside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42514-blindside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Scrumhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42531-scrumhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

I am torn.

Would probably still select Best - but he had a poor 6Ns. Hibbard and Owens should be in the mix.

Personally I think Hibbard will start. 6 weeks ago I would never have comtemplated not starting Rory Best. However his throwing has been wayward in the 6 Nations and Hibbard has had a good tournament. I also think that with Adam Jones the likely starter at tighthead I'd prefer to have familiarity with the hooker. That bind between hooker and tighthead in a scrum is vital. Best stands out usually so much for Ireland as he does the work of a backrow; compensating for our lack of a natural 7 in the same way Darcy and O'Driscoll do. But with guys like Tipuric and Warburton available this becomes less important.

First Choice: Richard Hibbard
Second Choice: Rory Best (midweek captain?)
Third Choice: Ken Owens

In defence of Rory Best, the Irish lineout lifting was mixed to put it kindly. It's not all on the hooker folks.


Hibbard's in pole position now and unless Best proves otherwise, he is going into the tour. In Australia things can change quickly. Who of us thought Ugo Monye would start the first test in 09?

I have to eat a bit of humble pie with regards to Hibbard. He proved me wrong over the 6N and now I think he is the best choice for the Lions

Radge, what has happened to Ross Ford. He has gone backwards in a big way it seems. Maybe I'm just not watching enough Edinburgh/Scotland games but he doesn't look as good as he once did.

On paper your front row of Ryan Grant, Ross Ford and Euan Murray are all good players and a very strong unit. But it seems Grant is the only one really delivering at the minute?

Hibbard, Best and Hartley in that order.

red_stag wrote:Radge, what has happened to Ross Ford. He has gone backwards in a big way it seems. Maybe I'm just not watching enough Edinburgh/Scotland games but he doesn't look as good as he once did.

On paper your front row of Ryan Grant, Ross Ford and Euan Murray are all good players and a very strong unit. But it seems Grant is the only one really delivering at the minute?

Ford's suffering from being stale at Edinburgh. He needs to switch club and get his passion back stag. I seriously think on form he is the best Hooker in the 6N. He is powerful, dynamic, abrasive and great at the breakdown. Since the start of this season he just hasn't been himself. Possibly due to becoming a father, his 1st kid was just born in December I think and perhaps he needs a change of scenery.

MacArthur is hands down the best hooker in Scotland just now. He is really ripping things up at Glasgow and is a dynamic and powerful unit. This Lions tour is too soon for him though.

Stag, Ford has struggled this year with a type of chronic fatigue syndrome, called overuse syndrome. Basically it means he can't train as hard as he used to and when he does overdo it, he's out on his back for a few weeks. Means that it's difficult to get up a few matches in succession and was compounded by a shoulder/ankle injury before the 6N started!

He lost a bit of confidence in himself and his lineouts suffered as a result. Still came back strong at the end of the tournament.

My picks at the minute are probably Hibbard/Best (can't split them, different gameplans if either starts) and Tom Youngs. Dynamism is the key and all three bring something to the table. Best has the softest hands I've ever seen for a hooker, and his breakdown work is already renowned. Hibbard is technically very good and hits his lineout well, and along with Youngs, both are pocket battleships!

Best and Hibbard go - a complete no brainer

The third spot is up for grabs.

The usual error of blaming the Hooker for a line out being in trouble I see.
Ireland lost 4 lineouts against Italy but only 1 was down to a poor throw.

Hibbard threw poorly against Scotland, as did Best. A lineout is a collective failure not just individual error. Ryan did not vary the lineout calls against Italy ad often the Italian jumper just got up in front of our man- that is not the fault of Best. Best was absolutely outstanding against Wales and was the best player on the park. He did well against England, was excellent against France, average against Scotland and very poor against Italy. He had a mixed tournament, not a poor one. His european cup stats speak for themselves. Hibbard played very well against England but his other performances were mixed.

It's a horses for courses selection. You don't know how the players will do on tour. While we focus on these two the third selection, probably Youngs, might excel and take the spot. If Gatland plays two breakdown specialists in the backrow the Lions might need a better ball carrier and that would suit Hibbard. If he only plays one and goes for two ball carriers in the back row then Best would easily command his place given his turnover stats.

For me I'd take hibbard, best and young's. All three had good/bad spells in the six nations.

Sorry Hook I do not think Best threw badly against Scotland.

Yes we only won 5 out of 9 which statistically is terrible but look at the reasons why.

There was 1 bad throw
There was 1 throw where we lost possession because of bad technique by the jumper (can't remember if the jumper was POM or Ryan)
The other two were lost because we lack variety. 80% of out throws were to 2/3rd down the line to Ryan. It was easy to read and Parisse standing just in front of Ryan did that.

Going into a game with only 1 1/2 jumpers against Parisse and Zanni was madness.

Look at the french game something like 13 out 14 successful throws. That was in terrible conditions and was the throwing performance of the tournament

I think it was Ryan's bad jumping you may have been thinking of Geoff- I think his injury really hampered him in the Six Nations. All the more reason to vary the lineout calls. Nonetheless certainly once against Scotland and once against Italy the opposing jumper got in front of our man but Best's throw was also just two low and easy to take. I thought Best threw worse against Scotland than Italy where the entire lineout, timing, jumping and calling was a shambles. That said the lineout was superb against France, as was the driving maul. Alot of posters have the memories of goldfish here and only remember the last round of matches. Thankfully Gatland will not do the same.

Good to see Owens get some recognition, great player.

Have stuck with Best but wouldn't be at all surprised if it was Hibbard

Best should definately go, and he'll probably return to his club form now to ram home that point.

Owens I think should've been starting for Wales, Rees is on the wrong side of the hill, and Hibbard had failed to step up his game to the int stage, until THAT England performance.

I remain unconvinced by Hibbards consistency, and the fact he tends to leave games so early so regularly, but as my first 2 choices would be Best and Owens I would select him as a wildcard type of choice. It would be very close between he and Hartley though, and I am gutted to say it but Ford's form just hasn't picked up enough, I think he's the stand out quality hooker, but still playing this poor???!!!

Best, Owens, Hibbard for me!

Here is last years Poll

https://www.606v2.com/t26852-hooker-choices-of-the-home-nations?highlight=Choices+of+the+Home+Nations

Just been considering hooker, would I have taken Hibbard pre round 5?? Probably not, but can he be ignored after round 5's performance? again No.

I personally think Hibbard has been dissapointing for a while for Wales, one emotional game doesn't undo all that, and therefore is a bit of a risk.

My 3 would then probably be...

Best, Owens, Ford

Agreed does one game make it enough though Hibbards Regional form has been top notch all season.

It would be very harsh if the player playing second fiddle to him in the Welsh set up was picked ahead of him and could if lead to possible animosity between players and coahces alike when they return to the Welsh fold.

In theory if Gatland picked Owens over Hibbard it could been seen as if he was telling Howley you picked the wrong man for Wales Owens is better etc .

bedfordwelsh wrote:Agreed does one game make it enough though Hibbards Regional form has been top notch all season.

It would be very harsh if the player playing second fiddle to him in the Welsh set up was picked ahead of him and could if lead to possible animosity between players and coahces alike when they return to the Welsh fold.

In theory if Gatland picked Owens over Hibbard it could been seen as if he was telling Howley you picked the wrong man for Wales Owens is better etc .

So how does Rees get selected over Owens show Howleys policy to those at the Scarlets who rate Owens higher? And how does Owens feel about playing 2nd fiddle to 2 different hookers, one of which he ousted at his club?

Howleys selection policy is rubbish, we all know it, it isn't Gatlands job to validate Howley in any way!

I agree HIbbards form has been excellent for a while now, but until that game he has been unable to bring it to the international set up, and that game was immensely passion driven IMHO, maybe Hibbard over played his abilities with a quality and familiar pack around him, and too much adrenalin pumping through his veins? And maybe this is unrepeatable?

I see HIbbard as a risk, and if I would take him it would be as a 3rd choice wild card. Same could be said of Hartley, club form is always very good, he leads, makes good decisions and now captains, but he just doesn't have that quality to step up!

Blues,

Not dis-agreeing with you just wonder what atmosphere it might create, we seen similar when Henry had the job, for the 6 nations he was telling his then Welsh players they were best about etc yet got overlooked for the Lions tour in favour of other Nations players - mixed messages etc and we all know the fall out from that tour.

thebluesmancometh wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Agreed does one game make it enough though Hibbards Regional form has been top notch all season.

It would be very harsh if the player playing second fiddle to him in the Welsh set up was picked ahead of him and could if lead to possible animosity between players and coahces alike when they return to the Welsh fold.

In theory if Gatland picked Owens over Hibbard it could been seen as if he was telling Howley you picked the wrong man for Wales Owens is better etc .

So how does Rees get selected over Owens show Howleys policy to those at the Scarlets who rate Owens higher? And how does Owens feel about playing 2nd fiddle to 2 different hookers, one of which he ousted at his club?

Howleys selection policy is rubbish, we all know it, it isn't Gatlands job to validate Howley in any way!

I agree HIbbards form has been excellent for a while now, but until that game he has been unable to bring it to the international set up, and that game was immensely passion driven IMHO, maybe Hibbard over played his abilities with a quality and familiar pack around him, and too much adrenalin pumping through his veins? And maybe this is unrepeatable?

I see HIbbard as a risk, and if I would take him it would be as a 3rd choice wild card. Same could be said of Hartley, club form is always very good, he leads, makes good decisions and now captains, but he just doesn't have that quality to step up!

I thought everyone had been calling for Hibbard to get selected for Wales ahead of Owens and Rees due to his Regional form?

He has had a great season for the Ospreys and for Wales. If you can knock best for the odd bad through or blame a failing line out on other aspects of the Set Piece then you shouldn't you be able to do the same for Hibbard...?

Bluesman you have been through the first three polls and rubbished all the Welsh players, when it has recently appeared that those are the form players in the home nations.

I am looking forward to your objective opinions on the locks.

I have gone for T Youngs, R Hibbard, not sure who the third hooker will be.

majesticimperialman wrote:I have gone for T Youngs, R Hibbard, not sure who the third hooker will be.

It would be interesting to hear why Madge...? Can you string a sentence or two together?

maestegmafia wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Agreed does one game make it enough though Hibbards Regional form has been top notch all season.

It would be very harsh if the player playing second fiddle to him in the Welsh set up was picked ahead of him and could if lead to possible animosity between players and coahces alike when they return to the Welsh fold.

In theory if Gatland picked Owens over Hibbard it could been seen as if he was telling Howley you picked the wrong man for Wales Owens is better etc .

So how does Rees get selected over Owens show Howleys policy to those at the Scarlets who rate Owens higher? And how does Owens feel about playing 2nd fiddle to 2 different hookers, one of which he ousted at his club?

Howleys selection policy is rubbish, we all know it, it isn't Gatlands job to validate Howley in any way!

I agree HIbbards form has been excellent for a while now, but until that game he has been unable to bring it to the international set up, and that game was immensely passion driven IMHO, maybe Hibbard over played his abilities with a quality and familiar pack around him, and too much adrenalin pumping through his veins? And maybe this is unrepeatable?

I see HIbbard as a risk, and if I would take him it would be as a 3rd choice wild card. Same could be said of Hartley, club form is always very good, he leads, makes good decisions and now captains, but he just doesn't have that quality to step up!

I thought everyone had been calling for Hibbard to get selected for Wales ahead of Owens and Rees due to his Regional form?

He has had a great season for the Ospreys and for Wales. If you can knock best for the odd bad through or blame a failing line out on other aspects of the Set Piece then you shouldn't you be able to do the same for Hibbard...?

Bluesman you have been through the first three polls and rubbished all the Welsh players, when it has recently appeared that those are the form players in the home nations.

I am looking forward to your objective opinions on the locks.

MM

I havn't rubbished any player at all, I have raised my concerns over certain players, and have selected who I think could play to a type of gameplan I personally would impliment.

Infact I have almost taken the first 2 Welsh front rows (oddly) I would definately consider Jenkins and James to travel with Healy, definately consider Owens and Hibbard to travel with best, and then Jones and Cole would definately travel, so 5 of my 9 front row options would be welsh (or at least considered)

My lions front row could consist of Cole, best, Healy or Jones, Hibbard, Jenkins!! Front row is our strongest position IMHO!

majesticimperialman wrote:I have gone for T Youngs, R Hibbard, not sure who the third hooker will be.

I do wander if T Youngs will actualy go on the Lions tour to be honest. I do think Hibbard will go on the tour. Who else will go? Their have been a lott of calls for R Best. I dont think he had a good 6ns to be honest, but will that stop him from going on the Lions tour?

majesticimperialman wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:I have gone for T Youngs, R Hibbard, not sure who the third hooker will be.

I do wander if T Youngs will actualy go on the Lions tour to be honest. I do think Hibbard will go on the tour. Who else will go? Their have been a lott of calls for R Best. I dont think he had a good 6ns to be honest, but will that stop him from going on the Lions tour?

I meant why did you go for Youngs?

I dont think I have read anyone make a case for him as yet? Its all been best or Hibbard.

Youngs is just too small, too inexperienced and too much of a converted back right now. He needs to learn to operate at a high level in his new position first and foremost, he's been very impressive so far, but he needs tons more time!!!

In squad;

Hibbard
Best
Youngs

Back-up;

Ford

Best and Hibbard, along with Hartley. The former are better players but I think Hartley does some of the basics better than all the other competitors (such as line out throwing).

Dylan Hartley has fallen out of favour massively since last year.

Here are last years results

https://www.606v2.com/t26852-hooker-choices-of-the-home-nations?highlight=TiHooker+Choices+of+the+Home+Nations

A sole vote for Dougie Hall...!

Can't look past hibbard, Rory Best can only be picked on form from the past few years. He has been dire this season in the 6 Nations.

[quote="majesticimperialman"]

majesticimperialman wrote:Their have been a lott of calls for R Best. I dont think he had a good 6ns to be honest, but will that stop him from going on the Lions tour?

Best has got heineken and Rabo to make his case. Before 6 nations I had him as starter + shout at captain. Yes he wasnt great in 6 nations but neither were Ireland.
I going for Best, Hibbard and Owens. Bluesman, I agree to an extent with what you are saying re Hibbard with an emotional performance, but I was thinking he would be at that level and higher against the Aussies (wanting to get back at them, and Howley mugged him off after the 2nd away test iirc). Also he has played great for spreys all season.

The thing is that no Lions tour has ever just been selected on the 6 Nations leading upto the tour.

Yes it will have a huge bearing and gives the stage for new players coming through BUT coaches will always take past performances into account when picking squads.

Importantly they are talking a great deal about how players get along with each other and with the media... They don't want trouble makers who have ruined tours before.

Luckily most trouble makers are making their lack of selection an easy call due to no form.

Maesteg

Interestingly Gatland has already selected 65-70% of the squad and the captain, which leaves about 12 players to make their mark over the next few weeks, he also stated that off field performances is as important as on the pitch with the emphasis on team players.

Back to the thread, I heard the Easter double header saw Cardiff pack more than held their own against the Ospreys, whilst the Scarlets had over 70% forward possession against the Dragons and Ken Owens had an excellent 2nd half performance in the scrum, breakdown, and supporting the backs by making some serious yardage. How did the two potential welsh hookers compare?

Cardiff backrow was very good. I just watched it this morning. Warburton really gave Tipuric a hard time.

Front five was all Ospreys.

Scarlets and dragons saw Scarlets with plenty of possession in the first half

Despite a yellow card Faletau was superb. As was Lydiate.


Back on topic yes Ken Owens looked very handy and will be pushing Hibbard all the way for that Lions shirt.

The Pack so far is looking like this


Cian Healy 41% 27
Rory Best 47% 28
Adam Jones 61% 30
Geoff Parling 15.4% 17
AW Jones 15.4% 17
Kelly Brown 28% 12
Justin Tipuric 43% 13
John Beattie 39% 12

SYNOPSIS OF THE POLL SO FAR...

Forwards

Cian Healy 41% 31
Rory Best 49% 37
Adam Jones 62% 36
Richie Gray 16% 22
Geoff Parling 14% 23
Chris Robshaw 27% 16
Justin Tipuric 44% 22
John Beattie 37% 22 (Toby Faletau 1 vote short)

Backs

Ben Youngs 54% 27
Jonny Sexton 44% 18
Jamie Roberts is tied with Billy Twelvetrees 31% 4
Manu Tuilagi 50% 7 (Brian O'Driscoll is 1 vote short)

maestegmafia wrote:Cardiff backrow was very good. I just watched it this morning. Warburton really gave Tipuric a hard time.

Front five was all Ospreys.

Scarlets and dragons saw Scarlets with plenty of possession in the first half

Despite a yellow card Faletau was superb. As was Lydiate.


Back on topic yes Ken Owens looked very handy and will be pushing Hibbard all the way for that Lions shirt.

After the second half performances against both England and Dragons not too sure how much more pushing he needs to do - has to be on the plane.

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...


Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15


Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11


Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20


Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17


Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)


Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10


Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10


Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6


Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)


Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9


Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7


Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5


Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

Another weekend done and dusted. The squad to be announced after the next...!

Looks like Hibbard is hopefully not going to be injured too long and should still be available.


The Ospreys are "optimistic" he will be out of action for two weeks at most and could be fit for the final Pro12 game of the regular season.

Again this is looking another conclusive vote as the polls start to close.

Best first choice, Hibbard second. Youngs and Owens chasing that final third spot.