Froch vs Kessler II - Spring '13

merry xmas all

http://www.boxingscene.com/froch-not-bute-next-fight-kessler-s-sure--60827

not sure whats going to happen with the bute rematch but my advice would be for him to stay well away!

froch-kessler II is a mouth watering fight, if, it lives up to the first fight. I can see froch nicking this one, especially if its in the UK.

Thoughts.

F'ing great fight, Froch, if he wins, is Britain's best ever. No one can argue it.

davidemore wrote:F'ing great fight, Froch, if he wins, is Britain's best ever. No one can argue it.

ever ever? i cant agree nor disagree with that, i dont know much about the old timers, only from the late 80's.

great fight indeed, i think kessler has lost a step so froch takes it. would love froch to step up to LHW just to end his career with a pascal/dawson fight

davidemore wrote:F'ing great fight, Froch, if he wins, is Britain's best ever. No one can argue it.

I think Lewis would still be Britain's best.

If Bob Fitzsimmons counts he's a way in the distance along with Jimmy Wilde who's undoubtedly British.

Froch isn't going to ever be best ability wise, but achievement wise there's still a chance.

Talking of Lucien Bute, just how much longer can he avoid a fight with Jean Pascal?
I mean that's a big fight for the Montreal fans, and I can't think right now there's many fights that could earn as well for Bute as this one. Just how much longer can this go on! If it does ever happen, I'll take Pascal to wreck him:-


http://www.boxingscene.com/team-lucian-bute-respond-pascals-romanian-jab--60782

I wouldnt mind going to this fight. Get my viking hat and Kessler T Shirt ready

Should be a good fight with hopefully Kessler gaining another victory of Froch

Steffan wrote:I wouldnt mind going to this fight. Get my viking hat and Kessler T Shirt ready

I'll keep an eye out for you repping Denmark with all that gear then, Steffan. I'll be repping Nottingham with my Giro slip and SportsDirect.com tracksuit - can meet up for a beer afterwards if you fancy it?

Lewis does not match up to Froch record wise.

Not on your Nelly.

When Froch has re-matched and beat Kessler and fought Ward again, that'll be a dozen world level fights, several titles, foreign soils and no ducks over 4 years.

NO ONE can claim to have fought more of the elite than Froch. No one in world boxing can say that. HOF great Froch, a top 100 of AT. You'll see.

I'm sick of the non Froch believers. These are the same people who moan about PED's and controlling promoters, and the best not fighting the best. Well, open your god damn eyes! We have a throwback active today. We have a fighter that glorifies all that is truly great about the sport. And no one, not one us can say we have ever been less than entertained.

MY wish for 2013-- Rowley and the crew chop some of the deadwood from this board.

88Chris05 wrote:

Steffan wrote:I wouldnt mind going to this fight. Get my viking hat and Kessler T Shirt ready

I'll keep an eye out for you repping Denmark with all that gear then, Steffan. I'll be repping Nottingham with my Giro slip and SportsDirect.com tracksuit - can meet up for a beer afterwards if you fancy it?

Sounds a plan to me. You can show me all the sights then

Steffan wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:

Steffan wrote:I wouldnt mind going to this fight. Get my viking hat and Kessler T Shirt ready

I'll keep an eye out for you repping Denmark with all that gear then, Steffan. I'll be repping Nottingham with my Giro slip and SportsDirect.com tracksuit - can meet up for a beer afterwards if you fancy it?

Sounds a plan to me. You can show me all the sights then

You see, that's what I love about you, Steffan. Cracking sense of humour!

88Chris05 wrote:You see, that's what I love about you, Steffan. Cracking sense of humour!

I was hoping you could show me the ghetto where Froch grew up. He even had his bike stolen once didnt he? Man thats must have been onbe tough place to grow up in. Not sure id have the courage to visit a place where 'BMX crime' is at an epidemic

It was a motorbike Steffan, not a BMX. But I guess unless you've grown up in the same ghetto background as me and Carl, you'll never understand.

I lived in Notts. Beeston and W.B.

Froch isn't going to be troubling the elite from these shores any time soon unless he convincingly beats Ward and Kessler in rematches which in the case of the former I see as being very unlikely. Lewis had his slips ups against McCall and Rahman but at least had a 3-4 period when he was without doubt the premier heavyweight in the world, as much as I like Froch he has no such claim at 168lbs.

That all being said doesn't include some old timers like Wilde, Ted Lewis and Welsh as well as the slightly more modern Hamed, Buchanan and Calzaghe. I could see Froch ending up around the number 8 mark but can't see him climbing much higher than that.

davidemore wrote:Lewis does not match up to Froch record wise.

Not on your Nelly.

When Froch has re-matched and beat Kessler and fought Ward again, that'll be a dozen world level fights, several titles, foreign soils and no ducks over 4 years.

NO ONE can claim to have fought more of the elite than Froch. No one in world boxing can say that. HOF great Froch, a top 100 of AT. You'll see.

I'm sick of the non Froch believers. These are the same people who moan about PED's and controlling promoters, and the best not fighting the best. Well, open your god damn eyes! We have a throwback active today. We have a fighter that glorifies all that is truly great about the sport. And no one, not one us can say we have ever been less than entertained.

MY wish for 2013-- Rowley and the crew chop some of the deadwood from this board.

Lewis was number 1 in the world for years. Froch is number 3. No way he is rated higher than Lewis.

victorgarco wrote:

davidemore wrote:Lewis does not match up to Froch record wise.

Not on your Nelly.

When Froch has re-matched and beat Kessler and fought Ward again, that'll be a dozen world level fights, several titles, foreign soils and no ducks over 4 years.

NO ONE can claim to have fought more of the elite than Froch. No one in world boxing can say that. HOF great Froch, a top 100 of AT. You'll see.

I'm sick of the non Froch believers. These are the same people who moan about PED's and controlling promoters, and the best not fighting the best. Well, open your god damn eyes! We have a throwback active today. We have a fighter that glorifies all that is truly great about the sport. And no one, not one us can say we have ever been less than entertained.

MY wish for 2013-- Rowley and the crew chop some of the deadwood from this board.

Lewis was number 1 in the world for years. Froch is number 3. No way he is rated higher than Lewis.

Froch higher than Lewis?? Are we really discussing this??!!

Hard to still have Kessler above Froch until he actually does something at the weight, since there fight he's beaten Bouadla and Magee if my memory is correct, in a two year timespan is that really good enough to entitle him to such a lofty position?

I think Kessler is up on Froch by a lot of people on the basis he beat Froch when they fought. I see Froch toppling Kessler if a second fight took place but he can never be above someone like Lewis who owned his division. Froch is at best number two and not even close to the top guy in the division as things stand.

I agree that Froch is a distant second but since there fight Froch is a clear number two, wins over Johnson, Bute, Mack and Abraham more than outdo Magee and Bouadla.

davidemore wrote:

MY wish for 2013-- Rowley and the crew chop some of the deadwood from this board.

Be careful what you wish for davide.

Ghosty, although froch has done more than Kessler since they fought, given that Kessler has remained unbeaten, would you not still rank Kessler higher.. On the grounds that froch hasn't beaten anyone, you wouldn't expect Kessler, at his best, to beat?

I think you might as well regard Froch and Kessler as joint 2nd in the Super Middleweight hieracrchy. Froch has the better wins no doubt but the fact Kessler holds the win over Froch levels it out. Either way they're both a long way behind Ward at the moment.

The current version of Kessler wouldn't make such light work of Bute and Abraham in my opinion Milky nor do I think he has much chance of winning a rematch at this current stage, he's slipped a bit and a bang on form Froch won't let him off the hook again.

Why are some people so intent on saying Kessler has slipped?


On the back of coming off two fairly devastating ko's. Can't see it myself.

davidemore wrote:I lived in Notts. Beeston and W.B.

The Meadows, Lenton, Dunkirk, Radford and Canning Circus. Lovely places.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The current version of Kessler wouldn't make such light work of Bute and Abraham in my opinion Milky nor do I think he has much chance of winning a rematch at this current stage, he's slipped a bit and a bang on form Froch won't let him off the hook again.

Maybe not as impressively ghosty, but I'd bet my life on Kessler beating both. Froch will start as a Luke favourite on home soil, my point really was about ranking... If you've lost to a guy, at what point do your subsequent, better performances lift you above him. Hard to say in my book, if those wins are over guys who haven't beaten the other guy, or beaten anyone who has beaten him.

i agree that at some point it has to happen, but it's a bit like nadal being crocked and slipping down the tennis rankings. Doesn't mean anyone thinks the guys above him are better.

Great that they're fighting though, Kessler may be past his best, we'll see when they fight, but he won't roll over

Super D Boon wrote:I think you might as well regard Froch and Kessler as joint 2nd in the Super Middleweight hieracrchy. Froch has the better wins no doubt but the fact Kessler holds the win over Froch levels it out. Either way they're both a long way behind Ward at the moment.

I would edge it to Froch to be honest, I think the better wins make the difference as well as him being more active. I didn't watch the Froch vs Kessler fight live so new the result already which alters how you see the fight, but I felt Froch lost it more than Kessler won it, Froch just wasn't busy enough for the duration of the fight a mistake i don't think he'll make this time around.

As for people saying Kessler has slipped I don't know, but many considered him to be at his peak when he fought Calzaghe, Calzaghe beating a better Kessler than Froch lost to. Time & age I think add to the opinion he has slipped.

milkyboy wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:The current version of Kessler wouldn't make such light work of Bute and Abraham in my opinion Milky nor do I think he has much chance of winning a rematch at this current stage, he's slipped a bit and a bang on form Froch won't let him off the hook again.

Maybe not as impressively ghosty, but I'd bet my life on Kessler beating both. Froch will start as a Luke favourite on home soil, my point really was about ranking... If you've lost to a guy, at what point do your subsequent, better performances lift you above him. Hard to say in my book, if those wins are over guys who haven't beaten the other guy, or beaten anyone who has beaten him.

i agree that at some point it has to happen, but it's a bit like nadal being crocked and slipping down the tennis rankings. Doesn't mean anyone thinks the guys above him are better.

Great that they're fighting though, Kessler may be past his best, we'll see when they fight, but he won't roll over

This is exactly why we have such long debates on p4p & how much it really means. Mayweather is top p4p on all lists but I think on quality of wins over the last 2 years both Ward & Donaire could make a claim to be ahead of him

Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Gordy wrote:Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Unfortunately thats the nature of sports fans in all sports whether its a team sport or otherwise, just like some Lewis fans won't except a ko defeat of him as a loss.

I wouldn't say p4p is nonsense term but it does have holes in it & their are always contradictions. As for saying a loss says far more than p4p I'd have to disagree, Benn beat Barkley, Barkley beat Hearns therefore Benn is a better boxer than Hearns?

On the subject of froch throwing away the kessler fight by not doing enough... He has often looked lazy in fights to me... i dont believe for a minute he is, so it begs the question whether his workrate is a stamina issue. Ie, did he throw away the kessler fight or could he just not match him for gas?

Steffan wrote:I wouldnt mind going to this fight. Get my viking hat and Kessler T Shirt ready

Should be a good fight with hopefully Kessler gaining another victory of Froch

I don't think Froch's problem was ever stamina - he's always been full of industry in the championship rounds, hence how he was able to finally pull clear of Pascal, turn the tables on Taylor (just!) and, at long last, stamp his authority over Johnson after a slightly lackadaisical performance early doors. A big twelfth against Dirrell just about saved his bacon in many people's eyes, too.

Curiously with Froch, it always seemed to be his work rate in the early rounds which caused alarm, rather than the late, which is the more conventional problem. Of all those top level fights he's had, it's only really been the Abraham and Bute ones in which he's got off to a flyer. If the showings against Bute and Mack are proof that he's found the remedy to that issue, then he starts as a narrow favourite against Kessler for me. Like some others, I think that the talk of Kessler's decline has been a little exaggerated. I don't particularly think he's gone backwards since their fight in 2010, but I do think that Froch has improved significantly. When you consider how close the first fight was, that could make a world of difference second time out.

I trhink Froch will come out all guns blazing and take the early rounds, with Kessler making more of an impact in the middle rounds.
After that its a question of whom wants it the most, at this stage I feel Froch will take the late rounds with the crowd roaring in his favour.

I feel Kessler won their last encounter 8-4 but predict the upcoming bout to be a 50/50 affair, more than enough to give Froch the decision.

Fair points Chris, he's known as a slow starter, maybe he just paces himself, and is over cautious in doing so at times. There have been several fights where I've been screaming at him to do something. Funnily enough, although he won the later rounds, I felt the same in the Taylor fight... Now there was a guy with stamina problems, who was out on his feet for much of the later rounds and froch was slow in my view to up the workrate. As we know, he left that one late!

sohotnot wrote:

Gordy wrote:Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Unfortunately thats the nature of sports fans in all sports whether its a team sport or otherwise, just like some Lewis fans won't except a ko defeat of him as a loss.

I wouldn't say p4p is nonsense term but it does have holes in it & their are always contradictions. As for saying a loss says far more than p4p I'd have to disagree, Benn beat Barkley, Barkley beat Hearns therefore Benn is a better boxer than Hearns?

Did you watch Lennox Lewis fight or are you just repeating bias you heard? The only fight Lewis lost was when he was not focussed against Rahman. And given how much of a lesson he gave him after just shows how underprepared he was in the first fight.

His draw against Holyfield and loss to McCall are complete stitch ups by Don King as far as Im concerned and yet again he outclassed them both in rematches which proves Im right.

He lost to Mercer but the blind judges gave it to him.

Gordy wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

Gordy wrote:Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Unfortunately thats the nature of sports fans in all sports whether its a team sport or otherwise, just like some Lewis fans won't except a ko defeat of him as a loss.

I wouldn't say p4p is nonsense term but it does have holes in it & their are always contradictions. As for saying a loss says far more than p4p I'd have to disagree, Benn beat Barkley, Barkley beat Hearns therefore Benn is a better boxer than Hearns?

Did you watch Lennox Lewis fight or are you just repeating bias you heard? The only fight Lewis lost was when he was not focussed against Rahman. And given how much of a lesson he gave him after just shows how underprepared he was in the first fight.

His draw against Holyfield and loss to McCall are complete stitch ups by Don King as far as Im concerned and yet again he outclassed them both in rematches which proves Im right.

Focused or not focused he got ko'd by 2 averge boxers.

Gordy wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

Gordy wrote:Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Unfortunately thats the nature of sports fans in all sports whether its a team sport or otherwise, just like some Lewis fans won't except a ko defeat of him as a loss.

I wouldn't say p4p is nonsense term but it does have holes in it & their are always contradictions. As for saying a loss says far more than p4p I'd have to disagree, Benn beat Barkley, Barkley beat Hearns therefore Benn is a better boxer than Hearns?

Did you watch Lennox Lewis fight or are you just repeating bias you heard? The only fight Lewis lost was when he was not focussed against Rahman. And given how much of a lesson he gave him after just shows how underprepared he was in the first fight.

His draw against Holyfield and loss to McCall are complete stitch ups by Don King as far as Im concerned and yet again he outclassed them both in rematches which proves Im right.

I believe that in the second McCall fight, Lewis was fighting a man who had temporarily lost his marbles. Lewis would have beat him, I am sure, but McCall lost his mind

Lewis was a great champion. A credit to boxing who is an ATG without doubt. He'd be in anyone's top 20 based on ATG compilation. Somewhere around 15-19.

Great boxer.

Gordy wrote:

sohotnot wrote:

Gordy wrote:Pound for pound is a nonsense term. Kessler beat Froch but his fans try to make excuses for it and say Froch is better. Sorry but he lost to Kessler and that says far more about who is better than any kind of pound for pound mumbo jumbo.

Unfortunately thats the nature of sports fans in all sports whether its a team sport or otherwise, just like some Lewis fans won't except a ko defeat of him as a loss.

I wouldn't say p4p is nonsense term but it does have holes in it & their are always contradictions. As for saying a loss says far more than p4p I'd have to disagree, Benn beat Barkley, Barkley beat Hearns therefore Benn is a better boxer than Hearns?

Did you watch Lennox Lewis fight or are you just repeating bias you heard? The only fight Lewis lost was when he was not focussed against Rahman. And given how much of a lesson he gave him after just shows how underprepared he was in the first fight.

His draw against Holyfield and loss to McCall are complete stitch ups by Don King as far as Im concerned and yet again he outclassed them both in rematches which proves Im right.

Of course I have watched the fight, have been a fight fan for a long time unlike the 12 months or so you claim to have been watching, & Lewis lost to McCall buy ko, just because you have a conspiracy theory doesn't alter the fact. Hard to have much of an opinion on the McCall rematch as the guy had a breakdown & refused to fight. Hadn't been out of rehab that long for his crack binges, should never have been in their. Personally I think Lewis would've beaten him. The 1st Holyfield should have been a win for Lewis defo some dubious judging there. 2nd fight although he won on the cards & on my card I don't feel he outclassed him. Just for your record gordy I've always been Lewis fan, not my favorite boxer, but always wanted him to win. Didn't always set the world alight but a decent boxer all the same.

So gordy, Benn beat Barcley, Barckley beat Hearns, who do you think is the better boxer & who comes higher in an ATG list?

I just watched it again to make sure if it was how I remembered and it was. No way was the McCall fight a conspiracy. Lewis was all over the shop and was rightly stopped!

Lewis was on his fight ready to continue. The ref prevented him. It was a complete stitch up.

Funny how Gordy blasts Froch fans for making excuses for his loss yet he does the exact same thing for Lewis.

Gordy wrote:Lewis was on his fight ready to continue. The ref prevented him. It was a complete stitch up.

He looked like he'd had 18 pints.

Gordy wrote:Lewis was on his fight ready to continue. The ref prevented him. It was a complete stitch up.

On his feet wobbling! I seem to remember your other favorite Calzaghe getting some wosre stoppages than that, fighters that hadn't been down or some he wasn't hitting cleanly when stopped! Were they complete stitch ups?

azania wrote:Lewis was a great champion. A credit to boxing who is an ATG without doubt. He'd be in anyone's top 20 based on ATG compilation. Somewhere around 15-19.

Great boxer.

That just plain ridiculous. I cant work out if you think you are complementing Lewis or insulting him?

Gordy wrote:

azania wrote:Lewis was a great champion. A credit to boxing who is an ATG without doubt. He'd be in anyone's top 20 based on ATG compilation. Somewhere around 15-19.

Great boxer.

That just plain ridiculous. I cant work out if you think you are complementing Lewis or insulting him?

Give it a rest please. All you bang on about is how great lewis is and how crap froch and the klitschkos are. It is made even worse when you come out with these crazy conspiracy theories that not even an 8 year old child would believe eg Wach only failed a drugs test because Wladamir klitschko planted drugs in Wach's food.

Dont you have another Klitschko pr movie to make?