Racism - Do something about it FIFA/UEFA

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 17 Oct 2012, 7:53 am

First topic message reminder :

I'm sure you have all heard about the disgraceful scenes at the end of the U21 game in Serbia last night

If not here is a link to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05IukAku8qA&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LLhNNnHpyx8eiOK6-2qFJqZg

It's about time UEFA/FIFA did something that actually hurt these countries, and ban them for this racist behaviour. It's not the first time either, England coach Noel Blake (black) took his U19? team to Serbia for a qualifier and got racially abused. You have the Lazio fans making monkey noises at Jermain Defoe also.

If this ends up in a fine, I think I might actually lose all faith in FIFA/UEFA.

by Duty281 Thu 18 Oct 2012, 7:36 am

Just taken a quick look at the Serbia Football Forum. The majority seem to think it's OK because Danny Rose provoked them and that the English media is going OTT.

http://www.xtratime.org/forum/showthread.php?t=133032&page=373

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:20 am

PJHolybloke wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:well Crimey to me it seems like there's a witch hunt going when any fans that boo's a black player they are linking it to racism without even getting efficient evidence to support the accusations. I will wait for the evidence before casting a stone thank you.

Here's the evidence of monkey chanting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19976781

Scroll down for the vid.
still waiting for the Serbian version of the incidents, videos can be manipulated to support a cause.

Would these be the same Slavic Serbs that spent a few years in the 90's exterminating other Serbs because they were the "wrong type of Serb"?

Are those the same Serbs we're talking about?

Just asking like...

Because the type of Serbs I'm thinking of are the Serbs that spent years surrounding Serbian Muslim civilian populations in their own country, mortaring them, sniping them, ethnically cleansing them through concentration camps and mass murder on a genocidal level whilst denying, to the entire world, that it was going on. Those Serbs?

Those Serbs denied it in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, despite the mass graves that have since been discovered, despite the documentary evidence that has been provided to The Hague by the ream, despite the eye witnesses that are even now testifying against Serbian war criminals as to the depraved depth of their racist crimes. Those Serbs still stand up in front of a European Court of Law and deny EVERYTHING.

Yet you Josiah, are "waiting for the Serbian version of the incidents"?

I'll tell you why racism in football still exists in places like Serbia, it's because people like you are only too happy to pretend it isn't happening.

Congratulations.

Should have gone to Specsavers.

The funny thing is the English media always has to butt in before allowing FIFA or the referees to do the investigating themselves, which is why I am very happy the English FA got punished too. Then there are sheep like you and azania who will believe anything the media tells them, the same media who made up bullcrap about hillsborough and other such scandals. The British media are having a great day watching people like you agree with them like willing slaves.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:49 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
PJHolybloke wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:well Crimey to me it seems like there's a witch hunt going when any fans that boo's a black player they are linking it to racism without even getting efficient evidence to support the accusations. I will wait for the evidence before casting a stone thank you.

Here's the evidence of monkey chanting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19976781

Scroll down for the vid.
still waiting for the Serbian version of the incidents, videos can be manipulated to support a cause.

Would these be the same Slavic Serbs that spent a few years in the 90's exterminating other Serbs because they were the "wrong type of Serb"?

Are those the same Serbs we're talking about?

Just asking like...

Because the type of Serbs I'm thinking of are the Serbs that spent years surrounding Serbian Muslim civilian populations in their own country, mortaring them, sniping them, ethnically cleansing them through concentration camps and mass murder on a genocidal level whilst denying, to the entire world, that it was going on. Those Serbs?

Those Serbs denied it in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, despite the mass graves that have since been discovered, despite the documentary evidence that has been provided to The Hague by the ream, despite the eye witnesses that are even now testifying against Serbian war criminals as to the depraved depth of their racist crimes. Those Serbs still stand up in front of a European Court of Law and deny EVERYTHING.

Yet you Josiah, are "waiting for the Serbian version of the incidents"?

I'll tell you why racism in football still exists in places like Serbia, it's because people like you are only too happy to pretend it isn't happening.

Congratulations.

Should have gone to Specsavers.
The funny thing is the English media always has to butt in before allowing FIFA or the referees to do the investigating themselves, which is why I am very happy the English FA got punished too. Then there are sheep like you and azania who will believe anything the media tells them, the same media who made up bullcrap about hillsborough and other such scandals. The British media are having a great day watching people like you agree with them like willing slaves.

I fail to see why the actions of the English media, whether right or wrong, make it appropriate to punish the English FA. Anyway, why would the media wait to report on a story to allow any authorities to act first. Should they have held off on reporting the parliamentary expenses scandal until the appropriate Parliamentary authorities had first held their own investigation? You're also wrong about people being 'sheep believing whatever the media tell them'. People are believing what their eyes and ears tell them. This is confirmed by the statements of the English players.

You also haven't explained how making monkey noises at black players could be seen in any way as a political protest.

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:55 am

Apart from the fact that it's not just the British media making the noise about this, but also the millions of people who saw the game live and could hear the chants and noises themselves.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:56 am

That's completely unfair and inaccurate jos. US brits are as critical of our media as anyone else is.. but in the case of racism I actually think they can be commended.. the problem with you is that you care to much about British media. We on the whole do not have a pop at others media yet others on the whole are much worse..

This country does brilliant things . We hold the best sporting events and the best events full stop. We are highly welcoming and understanding of all cultures. We on the whole embrace it.. yes we can be proud of that.. we are right and some countries need to start taking note..

by PJHolybloke Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:57 am

To be honest Josiah, I thought you'd be too embarrassed to come back, but then again it's obvious you haven't got a clue what's going on around you, so you have no idea how you're coning across.

You've just shifted the focus of your argument to something completely irrelevant as you have no defence for your previous comments.

The FA haven't been "punished", nobody has, both sides are being investigated for wrong doing, and I'm fairly sure the Serbian FA have much more to fear than the English.

The media didn't make up the false stories about.Hillsborough, they reported what they were told by the Yorkshire police, if the media were at fault anywhere, it was for not investigating the provenence of the information they were given.

Why would I have to rely on reading the papers anyway? I can hear perfectly well and my eyes work close to 100% too, you might find yours do too, if you pull your head out of the sand and give them a chance.

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:08 pm

Don't you find it weird PJ how the young Serbian players were so incensed by the behaviour of a few England players/coaches that they were willing to get in a fight, knowing full well it could lead in a ban for them. I remember the Serbia Italy match being abandoned because of fans, the Serbian and Italian players did not start fighting each other that day. While the Serbian fans/players are not 100% innocent, there is a reason they behaved like they did, reasons yet to be told.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm

Jos isnt it kinda clear what happened!! its very simple

danny rose was getting pelted by rocks and racist abuse throughout the game- he reacted- and I for one cant blame him for that- combine that with the fact sebia got beat!

then everyone went nuts..

crazy times- however its immaterial what happened at the end. I dont even want to concentrate on that. What I hate and what this thread is about surely is the racism! and the denial that seribia hasnt been racist..

Yes its normal for the fans to be racist at football games. But surely if they want to continue doing such things then they shouldnt be playing in international comps!! If there FA wants to bury there head in the sand then cut them off.

Offcourse the problem is that we have some very stubborn people in charge of footy and they do not seem to admit that England can ever do anything right these days!!

by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:29 pm

Josiah is my favorite poster Laugh

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm

He certainly creates debate!!

by Mike Selig Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm

There are two issues: the racism and the fight at the end.

It is entirely right that both parties are being investigated for the latter. Presumably someone will try to shed some light on what actually happened, what started it, what kicked it off and what didn't finish it. This will be tricky, because all the people involved will be trying to cover their own backsides, including the match officials who were inept (are you telling me the only person who commited a RC offence during the aftermath was the guy who kicked a ball?). Presumably extenuating/aggravating circumstances will be looked at, etc.

That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread though. I thought this thread was about the racist abuse. About which there can be no doubt for anyone with a minimum number of brain cells, just by looking at and listening to the footage.

I don't see how the media reporting on clear racist abuse in a football stadium is a problem.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 12:51 pm

Yep two seperate issues. Its a shame the later incident has taken precedent-However lets be honest if the feud hadnt broken out it would have just been another standard trip to eastern europe and the equivelant of a 20 p fine!

by PJHolybloke Thu 18 Oct 2012, 1:22 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Don't you find it weird PJ how the young Serbian players were so incensed by the behaviour of a few England players/coaches that they were willing to get in a fight, knowing full well it could lead in a ban for them. I remember the Serbia Italy match being abandoned because of fans, the Serbian and Italian players did not start fighting each other that day. While the Serbian fans/players are not 100% innocent, there is a reason they behaved like they did, reasons yet to be told.

Josiah, it's obveious what happened, Rose has even admitted it. When the goal was scored Rose "reacted" exactly how he reacted wasn't forthcoming, but I'm guessing that he started winding up the Serbians, and they just couldn't handle the idea of an uplift black man dishing some out.

Rose got surrounded and jostled well before he.kicked the ball away, so whatever he did with the ball is moot.

Rose kept his head through 90 minutes of abuse, the last minute winner allowed him to let off some steam and it was unwise, but understandable. The reaction from the entire Serbian camp was disgraceful, but nowhere near as serious as the abuse dished out to Rose purely because of his skin colour.

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 1:40 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:
Josiah Maiestas wrote:Don't you find it weird PJ how the young Serbian players were so incensed by the behaviour of a few England players/coaches that they were willing to get in a fight, knowing full well it could lead in a ban for them. I remember the Serbia Italy match being abandoned because of fans, the Serbian and Italian players did not start fighting each other that day. While the Serbian fans/players are not 100% innocent, there is a reason they behaved like they did, reasons yet to be told.

Josiah, it's obveious what happened, Rose has even admitted it. When the goal was scored Rose "reacted" exactly how he reacted wasn't forthcoming, but I'm guessing that he started winding up the Serbians, and they just couldn't handle the idea of an uplift black man dishing some out.

Rose got surrounded and jostled well before he.kicked the ball away, so whatever he did with the ball is moot.

Rose kept his head through 90 minutes of abuse, the last minute winner allowed him to let off some steam and it was unwise, but understandable. The reaction from the entire Serbian camp was disgraceful, but nowhere near as serious as the abuse dished out to Rose purely because of his skin colour.

Footballers should expect that some of the fans are not going to be nice and respectful and how many fans were actually shouting abuse to Rose? 50 or so out of 10,000.

I've heard the Serbian players were furious that Rose was giving stick to some fans that weren't doing monkey chanting.

by ncfc_Tooze Thu 18 Oct 2012, 1:46 pm

think its more than 50 or so listening to that footage

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:15 pm

It doesn't matter how many were abusing him, whether it be 1 or 1 million, it's unacceptable and needs to be stamped out of the game. Your attitude towards this is incredibly unnerving, to try and explain why such viscous and blatant racism is morally repugnant.

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:32 pm

Crimey wrote:It doesn't matter how many were abusing him, whether it be 1 or 1 million, it's unacceptable and needs to be stamped out of the game. Your attitude towards this is incredibly unnerving, to try and explain why such viscous and blatant racism is morally repugnant.

Forgive me for having a different opinion to you, there were other black players on the pitch who got on with the game and didn't feel the need to get involved with fans like Marvin Sordell, Zaha, Delfouneso, Coulker and Ince. These players and the team could have walked off the pitch and be commended for it, Rose chose to be a fool.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:38 pm

jos your arguing something else.

stick to the racism.

should we do our best to cut it out- or do you not see it as a problem?

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:42 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:It doesn't matter how many were abusing him, whether it be 1 or 1 million, it's unacceptable and needs to be stamped out of the game. Your attitude towards this is incredibly unnerving, to try and explain why such viscous and blatant racism is morally repugnant.
Forgive me for having a different opinion to you, there were other black players on the pitch who got on with the game and didn't feel the need to get involved with fans like Marvin Sordell, Zaha, Delfouneso, Coulker and Ince. These players and the team could have walked off the pitch and be commended for it, Rose chose to be a fool.

You haven't been saying that though. You've made several outlandish claims such as the British media doctoring the racist abuse up. It only being 50 out of 10,000 people, which is both incorrect and irrelevant.

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:44 pm

mysti I will simply refer you to a black goalkeeper with his thoughts:

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/david-james-antiracism-groups-just-try-to-justify-existence-8207873.html

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:46 pm

Which again is not relevant, as he was talking about racism in English football where it is much less of a problem now, this happened in Serbia where the problem of racism is still very much a big one.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:49 pm

jos its a good article. By the way- what has that got to do with the topic at hand mate?

or should I say how does it help your argument..

None of us want to talk abour racsim- we just dont want to see it or allow it to happen. Just the same as James

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:53 pm

You haven't been saying that though.

You wanted a response to a different question and I gave you.

You've made several outlandish claims such as the British media doctoring the racist abuse up.

So you don't think the media has their own agenda?

It only being 50 out of 10,000 people, which is both incorrect and irrelevant.

Why is it irrelevant? Don't you think we should let the Serbian FA and FIFA deal with it before giving our version of the 'facts'?

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:54 pm

It's irrelevant because whether the abuse is coming from 1 man or a million men, it should not be accepted.

The racism incident has to be taken in isolation to the 'fight' afterwards.

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:54 pm

Crimey wrote:Which again is not relevant, as he was talking about racism in English football where it is much less of a problem now, this happened in Serbia where the problem of racism is still very much a big one.

This is Serbia's problem not ours, no wonder why we are hated across Eastern Europe.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

"Why is it irrelevant? Don't you think we should let the Serbian FA and FIFA deal with it before giving our version of the 'facts'?"

Jos If you dont stand up to the problem then nothing gets dealt with- If your a Victim you have to go to the police. In this case the FA had to go to FIFA with the complaint..

Its how it works mate.

by azania Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

Josh is 100% correct. Its the fault of black players for:

1) Being black,
2) Getting miffed when those lovely and excitable Serbs compared them to monekys,
3) Not accepting the Serb's chants in the good grace that it was given,
4) Being too uppity and not knowing their place.

by **Crimey** Thu 18 Oct 2012, 2:56 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:Which again is not relevant, as he was talking about racism in English football where it is much less of a problem now, this happened in Serbia where the problem of racism is still very much a big one.
This is Serbia's problem not ours, no wonder why we are hated across Eastern Europe.

I don't understand what you mean....

We shouldn't discuss it because it's not a problem in England?

Surprisingly enough 606v2 isn't the governing body of football and isn't dishing out punishments, that doesn't mean that the members of the board can't rightly criticise their disgusting behaviour. The English FA haven't made any attempt to interfere in Serbian football and it will be left to FIFA or UEFA to decide how to tackle this case.

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:01 pm

"
This is Serbia's problem not ours, no wonder why we are hated across Eastern Europe"

you just come up with the most random stuff dont ya.. Its not even close to being the case anyway.. Oddly enough they love of old 'bad' ways to much!!

I have visted Eastern europe plenty- they have no specific hate for us at all..Many of the muppets in there communities do just hate for any random reason they have been breed with though- such as race, religion etc etc,

by Josiah Maiestas Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:01 pm

azania wrote:Josh is 100% correct. Its the fault of black players for: 1) Being black, 2) Getting miffed when those lovely and excitable Serbs compared them to monekys, 3) Not accepting the Serb's chants in the good grace that it was given, 4) Being too uppity and not knowing their place.

Where is the nurse for this whopper? Clearly didn't read when I said this:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:It doesn't matter how many were abusing him, whether it be 1 or 1 million, it's unacceptable and needs to be stamped out of the game. Your attitude towards this is incredibly unnerving, to try and explain why such viscous and blatant racism is morally repugnant.
Forgive me for having a different opinion to you, there were other black players on the pitch who got on with the game and didn't feel the need to get involved with fans like Marvin Sordell, Zaha, Delfouneso, Coulker and Ince. These players and the team could have walked off the pitch and be commended for it, Rose chose to be a fool.

by jbeadlesbigrighthand Thu 18 Oct 2012, 3:17 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:Which again is not relevant, as he was talking about racism in English football where it is much less of a problem now, this happened in Serbia where the problem of racism is still very much a big one.
This is Serbia's problem not ours, no wonder why we are hated across Eastern Europe.

How is it "Serbia's problem, not ours", when it's our players being racially abused?

So far as I can understand your arguments, they are as follows:

1) There's no evidence English players were racially abused
2) If they were, it may have been a political protest
3) It wasn't that many fans involved
4) English players brought it on themselves
5) English players enflamed the situation by reacting
6) The English media have stirred up a witch-hunt
7) It's Serbia's problem, not England's
8) People shouldn't complain about racism in this instance unless they would do so in a reverse situation.

I don't think a single one of those arguments is defensible.

by azania Thu 18 Oct 2012, 4:01 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
azania wrote:Josh is 100% correct. Its the fault of black players for: 1) Being black, 2) Getting miffed when those lovely and excitable Serbs compared them to monekys, 3) Not accepting the Serb's chants in the good grace that it was given, 4) Being too uppity and not knowing their place.
Where is the nurse for this whopper? Clearly didn't read when I said this:

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
Crimey wrote:It doesn't matter how many were abusing him, whether it be 1 or 1 million, it's unacceptable and needs to be stamped out of the game. Your attitude towards this is incredibly unnerving, to try and explain why such viscous and blatant racism is morally repugnant.
Forgive me for having a different opinion to you, there were other black players on the pitch who got on with the game and didn't feel the need to get involved with fans like Marvin Sordell, Zaha, Delfouneso, Coulker and Ince. These players and the team could have walked off the pitch and be commended for it, Rose chose to be a fool.

People have a different level of ability to tolerate abuse. Someone says that to me and I can assure you that they will never say it again to anyon else. Say it to my brother and he'll walk away and shrug his shoulders. But to attribute blame to Rose is almost similar to attributing blame to jews for the holocaust.

by User 774433 Thu 18 Oct 2012, 7:15 pm

Josiah

For people who don't know this, Josiah is a regular poster on the tennis board, he provides good comedy for us.
Unfortunately logic isn't his best friend, but there you go.

Anyway apart from that I think I agree with what people are saying. I believe this is the second time in recent years Serbia has been in trouble for their fans, and after the statement from the Serbian FA, I really don't think they take racism as seriously as they should.
As a punishment I think they should be banned from international football for 2012 and 2013, that should send out a message.

by Fernando Thu 18 Oct 2012, 9:01 pm

This evening Lazio have been fined £32,500 by UEFA for the improper conduct of their fans during last month's Europa League tie against Tottenham at White Hart Lane.

Loud monkey chanting was heard to come from the away fans and was directed at Jermain Defoe, Aaron Lennon and Andros Townsend during the Group J clash, which ended 0-0 after three Spurs goals were ruled out.

This is less then Ashley Cole's fine for his twitter outburst

by Gibson Thu 18 Oct 2012, 9:32 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:Josiah
For people who don't know this, Josiah is a regular poster on the tennis board, he provides good comedy for us.
Unfortunately logic isn't his best friend, but there you go.

Anyway apart from that I think I agree with what people are saying. I believe this is the second time in recent years Serbia has been in trouble for their fans, and after the statement from the Serbian FA, I really don't think they take racism as seriously as they should.
As a punishment I think they should be banned from international football for 2012 and 2013, that should send out a message.

Exactly. But, as there is money involved, do a corrupt & greedy, Blatter led FIFA, have the cajones to do something concrete & effective about it? A big fine is useless. Ban em until they evolve.

This attitude is systemic in most Eastern European countries. Its not just ethnic peoples they want suppressed, it's gays too. I am so wary of them joining the EU. We are not ready for them and they are not ready for us. Phhokem I say. guinness

by Ent Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:01 pm

A few points:

1.Josiah is a wum.
2. The scenes were a disgrace
3.The fa etc shouldn't throw stones in glass houses when they have several racists plying their trade in england and one in te national team.
4. David Cameron is a slimy git

by mystiroakey Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:04 pm

ent the fa can do and say what they like- the fact is they punish racism at a local level- the serbians and other nations dont. the fact we get incidents is only because we have progressed. the terry situation wouldnt have been a situation in another nation- thats the point

by Ent Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:12 pm

It's not a point:

Catching a racist at work then doing nothing about it is worse than ignoring it.

The fa/gov are very quick to condem the events in Serbia but are much slower to fix things closer to home.

Black players in this country are on the verge of boycotting the kick it out campaign.

A more multicultural society has reduced racism in the game, dot for one second think it is anything to do with the fa.

by PJHolybloke Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:25 pm

I think it's important to draw the distinction between using racist language, terms, terminology, insults or references, and actually being a racist.

A racist actually believes that another person is worth less, or is less of a person than they are, based on the other persons country of origin, ethnicity or the colour of their skin.

Someone can use a racist term without actually being a racist, I think it's important to remember that.

by Wellington Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:28 pm

I think Serbia should be punished by a heavy fine and forced to play the next European Championship Qualifying campaign behind closed doors. That is as far as I would take it. It is not the players fault so why should they be punished? I would also like to see the Serbian FA helped through this whole saga not just kicked into the long grass. England has had it's fair share of problems in the past. I do think Danny Rose deserved the red card as kicking the ball into the crowd as it could have sparked a riot (I do however have much sympathy for him).

by PJHolybloke Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:32 pm

Ent wrote:It's not a point:

Catching a racist at work then doing nothing about it is worse than ignoring it.

The fa/gov are very quick to condem the events in Serbia but are much slower to fix things closer to home.

Black players in this country are on the verge of boycotting the kick it out campaign.

A more multicultural society has reduced racism in the game, dot for one second think it is anything to do with the fa.

Are you suggesting that there is a bigger problem with racism in English football than there is in Serbia, or that there is currently a similar comparison to be made?

The stuff I saw on Tuesday was reminiscent of the vile scenes in English football 20-odd years ago.

I also don't understand your opening statement here, surely doing nothing about something is the same as ignoring it? I can't work out how it could possibly be worse. Headscratch

by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:38 pm

Fernando wrote:This evening Lazio have been fined £32,500 by UEFA for the improper conduct of their fans during last month's Europa League tie against Tottenham at White Hart Lane.

Loud monkey chanting was heard to come from the away fans and was directed at Jermain Defoe, Aaron Lennon and Andros Townsend during the Group J clash, which ended 0-0 after three Spurs goals were ruled out.

This is less then Ashley Cole's fine for his twitter outburst

One was UEFA and the other FA. Not really fair to compare.

by azania Thu 18 Oct 2012, 10:46 pm

PJHolybloke wrote:I think it's important to draw the distinction between using racist language, terms, terminology, insults or references, and actually being a racist.

A racist actually believes that another person is worth less, or is less of a person than they are, based on the other persons country of origin, ethnicity or the colour of their skin.

Someone can use a racist term without actually being a racist, I think it's important to remember that.

To think of a racist insult and then use if especially if instinctive is indicative of a racist mind where the subconscious comes to the fore. For me using a racist insult and being a racist are one and the same. Why else would Terry add the word "black" when insulting AF?

by Nakatomi Plaza Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:38 pm

GSC wrote:
Fernando wrote:This evening Lazio have been fined £32,500 by UEFA for the improper conduct of their fans during last month's Europa League tie against Tottenham at White Hart Lane.

Loud monkey chanting was heard to come from the away fans and was directed at Jermain Defoe, Aaron Lennon and Andros Townsend during the Group J clash, which ended 0-0 after three Spurs goals were ruled out.

This is less then Ashley Cole's fine for his twitter outburst
One was UEFA and the other FA. Not really fair to compare.

That's true. A better comparison would be to compare the £100k fine and one game ban Nicklas Bendtner got for revealing his Paddy Power boxers in the Euros from UEFA.

by GSC Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:45 pm

Not sure UEFA really had a choice there. Major sponsors have a big say.

In any case fining players what is a small amount of money to them, whatever the fine may be, isn't going to do anything. Bans are the only way to effectively punish.

Personally I'd stick with a ban from the 2014 WC and all European games (club and country) played behind closed doors for that period.

by PJHolybloke Thu 18 Oct 2012, 11:50 pm

azania wrote:
PJHolybloke wrote:I think it's important to draw the distinction between using racist language, terms, terminology, insults or references, and actually being a racist.

A racist actually believes that another person is worth less, or is less of a person than they are, based on the other persons country of origin, ethnicity or the colour of their skin.

Someone can use a racist term without actually being a racist, I think it's important to remember that.

To think of a racist insult and then use if especially if instinctive is indicative of a racist mind where the subconscious comes to the fore. For me using a racist insult and being a racist are one and the same. Why else would Terry add the word "black" when insulting AF?

Well, it's quite simple to me azania, when you really want to insult someone, you pick on what you perceive to be their most sensitive "nerve point", that way you're going to get the biggest reaction and therefore, in terms of offence, you're going to score the most points.

It doesn't mean you believe what you're saying, but it doesn't excuse what you're saying either though.

by **Crimey** Fri 19 Oct 2012, 8:44 am

Ent wrote:Black players in this country are on the verge of boycotting the kick it out campaign.

A more multicultural society has reduced racism in the game, dot for one second think it is anything to do with the fa.

The Kick it Our Campaign is funded by the FA, not run by them. Jason Roberts is boycotting because of their lack of action, not the FAs.

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 19 Oct 2012, 9:03 am

3.The fa etc shouldn't throw stones in glass houses when they have several racists plying their trade in england and one in te national team.

So then you've never said anything derogatory/joking about another race in your life? ( it doesn't matter if you say it to the face or not. ) I find it laughable how you compare JT saying 1 bad word to a bunch of a crowd chanting it for half of the game ( we are told to believe this. )

Its not just ethnic peoples they want suppressed, it's gays too.

Clearly you've never been to America, where it is much more anti-gays than Eastern Europe, but of course you've made up your mind about Serbia ( generalising imbecile. )

by mystiroakey Fri 19 Oct 2012, 9:12 am

Ent- we have all progressed but the fact is the FA's possible ott reaction is b ringing things to light rather than proving we are living in a racist country.

I agree with PJ in a way.

Using racist words doesnt is a product of unbriinging or past times over being racist.

Being racist is treating someone differently (normally based on fear)

by Josiah Maiestas Fri 19 Oct 2012, 1:32 pm

We get to hear the Serbian side of the story:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/euro-u21-serbian-fa-release-video-accusing-rose-102712603.html;_ylt=AhSNDtsRnJsE7U1dN_CFlvIxg4t4;_ylu=X3oDMTRxODRpZGV2BG1pdANUb3AgU3RvcmllcyBNaXhlZCBMaXN0IEZvb3RiYWxsIFNGBHBrZwNiYTg2ZjMxNC05MzY0LTM5NmItODZjNy05ZDY3NWE1NjdjMTMEcG9zAzYEc2VjA01lZGlhQkxpc3RNaXhlZExQQ0FUZW1wBHZlcgNkM2E3MThmMC0xOWQ4LTExZTItYWY5ZC03MzNkMGIyNGFlYjk-;_ylg=X3oDMTJhYmhtZ2w5BGludGwDZ2IEbGFuZwNlbi1nYgRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANmb290YmFsbHxhZnJpY2FuY3Vwb2ZuYXRpb25zBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3

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