Wales look at Pretorious, Paterson and Dirksen for future call-ups

First topic message reminder :

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/05/14/wales-target-southern-hemisphere-blues-duo-and-ospreys-star-hanno-dirksen-for-future-selection-91466-30967932/

ROB HOWLEY has revealed three foreign-born regional stars are on Wales' selection radar.

Howley admitted he has checked up on the eligibility of Ospreys winger Hanno Dirksen and Blues forwards Andries Pretorius and Michael Paterson ahead of naming the summer training squad for the Test series in Australia.

Those checks revealed South Africans Dirksen and Pretorius and New Zealander Paterson weren’t available for the tour of Australia as they still have time to serve before qualifying for Wales on the three-year residency rule.

But back rower Pretorius, who has just returned from a six-month knee injury lay-off, could be big candidate for Wales honours next season as he becomes eligible later this summer.

Blues Player of the Year Paterson has another 12 months to run before qualifying in the summer of 2013, while Dirksen won’t be eligible until January 2014.

“We checked up on the qualification of Michael Paterson and Andries Pretorius as well as Hanno Dirksen,” he said.

“They are not qualified for this tour.”


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Say what you like about eligibility rules, but these 3 would certainly add depth to the welsh squad.

Pretorious is likely to play 8 next season and be eligible for Wales (and has previously stated he wants to play for Wales) - he could prove to be the long term backup to Faletau at 6.

Paterson would provide further depth to the backrow, and could really challenge Lydiate if he can take his regional performances to the international level.

Dirksen is not really a surprise - Wales are a bit short on wings after S.Williams retirement and nobody is really pushing North or even the newby Cuthbert for a place. Pity we will have to wait until 2014 to see if Dirksen can step up to international rugby.

Is the poaching of foreign players allowed?

Whats the IRB's stance on this?

IMO it shouldn't be allowed.

HERSH wrote:Is the poaching of foreign players allowed?

Whats the IRB's stance on this?

IMO it shouldn't be allowed.

No it is wrong for sure.

GB about to return the Olympic Gold in the 5,000 & 10,000 metres

rainbow-warrior wrote:

HERSH wrote:Is the poaching of foreign players allowed?

Whats the IRB's stance on this?

IMO it shouldn't be allowed.

No it is wrong for sure.

GB about to return the Olympic Gold in the 5,000 & 10,000 metres

Why?

Mo's as British as the Queen.

Really???? Where was he born again?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

HERSH wrote:Is the poaching of foreign players allowed?

Whats the IRB's stance on this?

IMO it shouldn't be allowed.

No it is wrong for sure.

GB about to return the Olympic Gold in the 5,000 & 10,000 metres

Great first post. Mo Farah came to the UK as a refugee aged eight. He's British.

He was just applying the same principles as HERSH did. If hershy can get behind Mo in the olympics then I don't see how he would have a problem with Pretorious considering a Wales cap once eligible. And who knows he may not even get that cap.

Have you heard Mo Farah interviewed? He has a London accent. I'm pretty sure Pretorius doesn't have a Kairdiff accent.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Have you heard Mo Farah interviewed? He has a London accent. I'm pretty sure Pretorius doesn't have a Kairdiff accent.

Your point is??

Have you hear George North talking? ....WELSH. He was a refugee aged 8 as well!!

Right, so it's only accents that matter now. Yep you aren't prejudice at all.

I didn't say that only accents matter, just trying to point out that Mo Farah has spent most of his life here whereas Pretorius hasn't.

Also, it's prejudiced.

I think Wales should think very carefully before bringing in foreign journey men to make up the numbers.

I've never heard of anyone doing this before.

Why would they want to do this?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Thunor - I was born the in Hampshire, my Mother was born in Hampshire, and my Father was born in Pembrokshire, also I have an Irish Grandmother. I was brough up knowing about where my family are from etc. That said I have never classed myself as anything but welsh since I was about 11-12 (and about 90% of the people I know who are of mixed origins have been clear of htir nationality at an early age). I have an a soft spot for Hampshire (and now Norfolk as my wife is from there), and for Munster but I don't have the urge to sundenly become Irish or English.

Sounds like Shingler

This shows that the Regons aren't working.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I didn't say that only accents matter, just trying to point out that Mo Farah has spent most of his life here whereas Pretorius hasn't.

Also, it's prejudiced.

I see you twice edited this. Did you mispell something?

You're right, they don't only matter. No need to point it out, both weren't born here so the original point stands. I don't see why you'd side with HERSH over such a thing. Pretorious is clearly a journeyman like the Bothas, Fluteys and Hape's of this world. I don't want to see him near the Wales set-up.

To be fair Flutey was ok before he got injuried and buggered off to France.

The Blaggard

No, I didn't misspell anything.

It's all a big melting pot these days, so it's not surprising that Tongans, English, Scottish, Boks, Kiwis etc are being courted for Welsh honours.

They know what team is superior in the UK thats why. Why play for the 2nd (Ireland) and 3rd (France)best?

Wales are 6th in the world and 3rd in Europe.

Still, with this growing number of imports they can aim to rise up the rankings.

Good luck to 'em I say

I'd hate anybody without Welsh heritage playing for Wales, but being realistic I'd support the extended residency proposals but do the buggers at the IRU (and WRU etc ) care. So how do we get our point over to them. Petition, mass letter writing, email or what?

Burn some books!

It's not really that bigger deal is it, get over it.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Thunor - I was born the in Hampshire, my Mother was born in Hampshire, and my Father was born in Pembrokshire, also I have an Irish Grandmother. I was brough up knowing about where my family are from etc. That said I have never classed myself as anything but welsh since I was about 11-12 (and about 90% of the people I know who are of mixed origins have been clear of htir nationality at an early age). I have an a soft spot for Hampshire (and now Norfolk as my wife is from there), and for Munster but I don't have the urge to sundenly become Irish or English.

Sounds like Shingler

Shhhhh, don't let people know who I am

Dontheman wrote:I'd hate anybody without Welsh heritage playing for Wales

That boat sailed a long time ago. The good news is that at least this lot are/will be properly qualified.

rainbow-warrior wrote:They know what team is superior in the UK thats why. Why play for the 2nd (Ireland) and 3rd (France)best?

Maybe because both Ireland and France aren't part of the UK?

Notch wrote:Modern rugby is madly hypocritical. Wales are willing to block players from changing to nations they are eligible for through birth on the back of U20s caps whilst trying to recruit 'Project players' who have no link whatsoever to their country bar residency?

I'm nit pointing fingers at the WRU specifically, we're all part of the same hypocrisy. The IRFU and SRU are doing the exact same thing (Jared Payne, Richardt Strauss and Tim Visser) and obviously the RFU have engaged in it too.

I believe the IRB must act now on residency laws. Three years is simply too lax. Finding a quality SH player who hasn't made the breakthrough to the All Blacks/Springboks and offering him a big money three year deal with the carrot of playing international rugby at the end is becoming common practice in terms of recruitment in the NH and that's bad for the game.

Come on Notch, that's a ridiculous statement. Wales can no more block a player changing nations than they can decide new scrum laws on their own. The IRB blocked the player by enforcing their own rules, not Wales. Wales, or any other country, does not have the power to play god.

Griff wrote:

Notch wrote:Modern rugby is madly hypocritical. Wales are willing to block players from changing to nations they are eligible for through birth on the back of U20s caps whilst trying to recruit 'Project players' who have no link whatsoever to their country bar residency?

I'm nit pointing fingers at the WRU specifically, we're all part of the same hypocrisy. The IRFU and SRU are doing the exact same thing (Jared Payne, Richardt Strauss and Tim Visser) and obviously the RFU have engaged in it too.

I believe the IRB must act now on residency laws. Three years is simply too lax. Finding a quality SH player who hasn't made the breakthrough to the All Blacks/Springboks and offering him a big money three year deal with the carrot of playing international rugby at the end is becoming common practice in terms of recruitment in the NH and that's bad for the game.

Come on Notch, that's a ridiculous statement. Wales can no more block a player changing nations than they can decide new scrum laws on their own. The IRB blocked the player by enforcing their own rules, not Wales. Wales, or any other country, does not have the power to play god.

So far as I can see Wales still haven't selected Pretorious, Dirksen or Paterson. Haven't included them in a training squad, haven't offered them "Project Player" contracts. In fact the only intention that any of the three may be connected to playing for Wales is mere supposition and nothing more.

Some people really need to find a new stick to try and beat us with, this one is tired and broken.

maestegmafia wrote:Some people really need to find a new stick to try and beat us with, this one is tired and broken.

Maybe you could take your own advice re. England then we'd all be happy

Can a stick be tired?

It can - tired can be used to describe it's structural integrity.

And tired can be used to describe the standard of predictable England-Wales wumming on this thread

Smirnoff

Griff wrote:

Notch wrote:Modern rugby is madly hypocritical. Wales are willing to block players from changing to nations they are eligible for through birth on the back of U20s caps whilst trying to recruit 'Project players' who have no link whatsoever to their country bar residency?

I'm nit pointing fingers at the WRU specifically, we're all part of the same hypocrisy. The IRFU and SRU are doing the exact same thing (Jared Payne, Richardt Strauss and Tim Visser) and obviously the RFU have engaged in it too.

I believe the IRB must act now on residency laws. Three years is simply too lax. Finding a quality SH player who hasn't made the breakthrough to the All Blacks/Springboks and offering him a big money three year deal with the carrot of playing international rugby at the end is becoming common practice in terms of recruitment in the NH and that's bad for the game.

Come on Notch, that's a ridiculous statement. Wales can no more block a player changing nations than they can decide new scrum laws on their own. The IRB blocked the player by enforcing their own rules, not Wales. Wales, or any other country, does not have the power to play god.

Thats a touch misleading though, the IRB wouldnt have blocked the move if Wales hadnt demanded they did so and challenged the interpretation of the rules that would have enabled him to play for Scotland.

However its equally wrong to draw a direct parallel should they chose to select any of these players who are in no way tied to other Unions, unlike shingler

And I thought Shane Williams does have the ability to play god

God who?

Botha, Tuilagi, Flutey, Hape, Catt, Corbs, Stevens... List is on-going. Sad sign of the times for richest and largest rugby playing country. Perhaps diverting their attentions to the Grand Slammers makes them feel better? They should divert their attention alright. That way they might learn how to play some winning rugby.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Griff wrote:

Notch wrote:Modern rugby is madly hypocritical. Wales are willing to block players from changing to nations they are eligible for through birth on the back of U20s caps whilst trying to recruit 'Project players' who have no link whatsoever to their country bar residency?

I'm nit pointing fingers at the WRU specifically, we're all part of the same hypocrisy. The IRFU and SRU are doing the exact same thing (Jared Payne, Richardt Strauss and Tim Visser) and obviously the RFU have engaged in it too.

I believe the IRB must act now on residency laws. Three years is simply too lax. Finding a quality SH player who hasn't made the breakthrough to the All Blacks/Springboks and offering him a big money three year deal with the carrot of playing international rugby at the end is becoming common practice in terms of recruitment in the NH and that's bad for the game.

Come on Notch, that's a ridiculous statement. Wales can no more block a player changing nations than they can decide new scrum laws on their own. The IRB blocked the player by enforcing their own rules, not Wales. Wales, or any other country, does not have the power to play god.

Thats a touch misleading though, the IRB wouldnt have blocked the move if Wales hadnt demanded they did so and challenged the interpretation of the rules that would have enabled him to play for Scotland.

However its equally wrong to draw a direct parallel should they chose to select any of these players who are in no way tied to other Unions, unlike shingler

And I thought Shane Williams does have the ability to play god

Shane does, yes... Its carved in stone somewhere important.


The WRU did lodge a protest in the Shingler case because if thy didn't it meant that we could lose many of our top youth talent to other nations. A pathetic case instigated by the payers poor management and nothing to do with his own wishes from what I understand. His Brother is now enjoying a fruitful career.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Griff wrote:

Notch wrote:Modern rugby is madly hypocritical. Wales are willing to block players from changing to nations they are eligible for through birth on the back of U20s caps whilst trying to recruit 'Project players' who have no link whatsoever to their country bar residency?

I'm nit pointing fingers at the WRU specifically, we're all part of the same hypocrisy. The IRFU and SRU are doing the exact same thing (Jared Payne, Richardt Strauss and Tim Visser) and obviously the RFU have engaged in it too.

I believe the IRB must act now on residency laws. Three years is simply too lax. Finding a quality SH player who hasn't made the breakthrough to the All Blacks/Springboks and offering him a big money three year deal with the carrot of playing international rugby at the end is becoming common practice in terms of recruitment in the NH and that's bad for the game.

Come on Notch, that's a ridiculous statement. Wales can no more block a player changing nations than they can decide new scrum laws on their own. The IRB blocked the player by enforcing their own rules, not Wales. Wales, or any other country, does not have the power to play god.

Thats a touch misleading though, the IRB wouldnt have blocked the move if Wales hadnt demanded they did so and challenged the interpretation of the rules that would have enabled him to play for Scotland.

However its equally wrong to draw a direct parallel should they chose to select any of these players who are in no way tied to other Unions, unlike shingler

And I thought Shane Williams does have the ability to play god

For Shingler to have been allowed to 'swap' nations, one of two things would have had to happen:
Either:
1. Wales swept it under the carpet and lied about their knowledge of the potential dual registration. Cue a scandal that breaks a few years down the line and a 'Scots-gate' or 'Shingler-gate' becomes the new scandal in rugby. Wales to be seen as the biggest villains in the world for covering up and deceiving the IRB.
2. The IRB break their own rules and let him swap knowing he's been capped by another nation under their own laws. They've already refused to do this in the case of Nacewa, for example, when they would not let himk rescind his 1 Fiji cap. A new precedent would be set. Cue a flood of claims to have caps rescinded in favour of the adopted nation for a number of rugby mercenaries. Wales come out as the villains of the world for starting this process.

To say that the IRB wouldn't have blocked the move is to suggest that they were intended to bend their own laws, which I certainly never heard about during this process. A link to the evidence would be good Peter?

Morgannwg wrote:Botha, Tuilagi, Flutey, Hape, Catt, Corbs, Stevens... List is on-going. Sad sign of the times for richest and largest rugby playing country. Perhaps diverting their attentions to the Grand Slammers makes them feel better? They should divert their attention alright. That way they might learn how to play some winning rugby.

Where has this bitter rant come from?

This article is about Wales not England, and all those names above played for England without breaking any of the IRB rules on residency, we live in a diverse country that allows people to move around, so what’s your problem, don't tell me you get angry when you see someone with a different skin tone from that of your own?

If that’s the case you really need to move on, this is 2012 not the 1950’s.

HERSH dont try railing morg into sounding racist, Stevens Catt, Corbs and Botha have no differing skin tone at all!!!

I for one can see Pretorious and Dirksons cases but Paterson not so much, I'd be dissapointed if he wanted to play for wales as Tito said if your not welsh your not welsh.

PS Hersh looking forward to a trip to the rec later..

Well it sounds like he has some issues IMO, some of those players mentioned have an English parent, the others qualified through residency, no rules broken.

As I said this is 2012 not the 1950's people move and work all over the world, we're no longer limited to the next valley or town to extend the genepool.

You are encourageable!

But I will enjoy a Blues victory tonight!

Even as I write this I feel annoyed with myself for once again replying to another ridiculous thread on eligibility.

The rules are not perfect but they are the rules and no one is above reproach in this matter and it can be traced back to long long time befroe proffesionalism and easier movement around the world.

People in glass houses etc etc

bedfordwelsh wrote:Even as I write this I feel annoyed with myself for once again replying to another ridiculous thread on eligibility.

The rules are not perfect but they are the rules and no one is above reproach in this matter and it can be traced back to long long time befroe proffesionalism and easier movement around the world.

People in glass houses etc etc

Bedford mate...!

THese guys are no where near contention for Wales places... There isnt even a hint from the WRU that these guys are on their selection radar.

Maes,

Whether they are not doesn't bother me and if they are selected then so be it as long as its all above board etc then those are the rules so why shouldn't we use them.

Like I said everyone else is.

Not seen much of Paterson so can't comment.

Pretorious is most probably unlucky in that he's competing in the most competitive ara currently in the Welsh side.

I think Dirksen out of the 3 is most likely to get a shot as we still not overly blessed in the back 3 positions outside the current crop.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Maes,

Whether they are not doesn't bother me and if they are selected then so be it as long as its all above board etc then those are the rules so why shouldn't we use them.

Like I said everyone else is.

Not seen much of Paterson so can't comment.

Pretorious is most probably unlucky in that he's competing in the most competitive ara currently in the Welsh side.

I think Dirksen out of the 3 is most likely to get a shot as we still not overly blessed in the back 3 positions outside the current crop.

I think Paterson and Pretorious have pretty good chances, especially Pretorious. They have both been the Blues player of the season over the last 2 years.

Pretorious is a no8, and after Faletau and R.Jones we don't have many 8s.

I thought Pretorious was more a 7, where is Patersons prefered position.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I thought Pretorious was more a 7, where is Patersons prefered position.

Pretorious got player of the season at 6. He has never played 7, Navidi, Warburton and Martyn were playing there. This season he will be captaining the Blues from 8 (where he played before injury last season)

Paterson is now the Blues best 6 which is where he spent most of last season when he got player of the season. He can also play in the second row.

606,

Do you think Navidi will make the breakthrough, he has (or seemed to be) around a few seasons now but has been passed by Tipuric.

I guess being behind Nuggett and Sam hasn't helped his cause.

From what you say a combo of Pretorious Paterson and Warburton/Navidi sounds pretty good.

Internationally?

Well, he will be playing regularly at 7, so he will have a change of making the squad at least.

Yeah, I cant wait to see that backrow when Paterson is fit and they find some form.

But even at Regional level he will be behind Warburton for all the big crunch/HC games unless injury prevents Sam playing.

Is there anymore news/rumours surrounding Delve after his stint in Oz?

Delve is at Toulon

And Warburton neeever gets injured

Thought the Delve move to Toulon had fallen through or hit the rocks at least

Last I heard was he extended his Melbourne Reds contract.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/18571770