Nadal Withdraws From Miami

First topic message reminder :

I presume this is official. From twitter

Nadal has pulled out of today's semi in Miami vs Murray because of left knee pain. We plan to hear from him shortly. Bummer.

http://twitter.com/#!/cbfowler

Tenez wrote:

raiders_of_the_lost_ark wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:
C'mon people! Knee is a very simple joint and there aren't many things that can go wrong there. A bit of bone, nerve endings a bit of tendon and muscle hanging off it. He's not 80 to be having arthritis, bones are fine, so it can only be tendons.

This bit I may chose to differ. Knee may not be very complex, but a small wrong in it has great affect in movement of the body especially when the person is involved in a physical activity like playing sports. Arthritis can hit to much younger people than 80 but chances are low.

Knees are actually the most complex joins in the body.

compared to brain, they're pretty simple!

Be kind to your knees, you'll miss them when they're gone.

http://www.diariodemallorca.es/deportes/2012/04/01/nadal-visitara-doctor-mikel-sanchez-vitoria/756360.html

Well looks like that though it has nothing to do with tendons, he is going to see Dr Sanchez for a PRP treatment.

Expect regular 130mph serves in MC, if he can push hard on his legs!

Tenez wrote:http://www.diariodemallorca.es/deportes/2012/04/01/nadal-visitara-doctor-mikel-sanchez-vitoria/756360.html

Well looks like that though it has nothing to do with tendons, he is going to see Dr Sanchez for a PRP treatment.

Expect regular 130mph serves in MC, if he can push hard on his legs!

what's PRP (version for dummies please)

If I undertand correctly- one of the "operations" discovered Spanish doctors using PRP treatments to cover for doping. Below is some info on how PRP treatments can be used to explain positive doping tests.. PRP is also considered by most to be ineffective, yet these athletes seem to be the only ones with miracoulous results-- thereby leading to a suspicion that it's something else aiding their abilitys not the PRP.

"exactly how PRP therapy might be used either directly for doping or to cover up doping. Are the growth factors that are accentuated via PRP therapy enough by themselves for doping when reinjected, or is there more to it? Since Tony Galea was also caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, I have always assumed the latter. I think this article sheds some light on the subject:
Why it’s worth combining IGF-1 and GH

It would of course be horrendously expensive, but in theory there’s a lot to be said for combining growth hormone [structure shown below] and IGF-1, writes the Dutch endocrinologist Joop Janssen in an article in Reviews in Endocrine Metabolic Disorders. The article is worth looking at if you’re a chemical athlete.

The first argument that Janssen comes up with is that IGF-1 remains active for longer in the body if you inject it in combination with growth hormone. This is because IGF-1 is active for longer if it is attached to the binding protein IGFBP3. If you inject IGF-1 on its own, the production of this binding protein goes down. But if you inject growth hormone and IGF-1 together, the concentration of this binding protein increases. That might mean that you would have to inject less frequently, as IGF-1 breaks down quickly in the body...
We are, of course, looking at the "chemical athlete". I can’t say I have “cracked the code,” but I think that I have a good working theory as to what is going on. When players get an exemption by declaration for a substance (such as salbutamol inhalers), they are then given a pass if the drug test comes up positive for the substance in question. Since PRP is permitted for use by WADA and the ITF by declaration (now both by injection in the joints as well a intramuscular injections), this presumably excuses an athlete from a positive drug test for the products of PRP. This would include a number of substances, but notably Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. So a player would then be able to juice up on HGH and IGF-1, and a positive test (with the already scant testing for these substances) could be chalked up to elevated levels from the PRP therapy. This would give an athlete a pass on two different, and potent, performance enhancing drugs that are even more potent in combination. I have tried to write WADA related to this subject and I haven’t received a reply (and the ITF doesn’t return my e-mails…)."

Yes. That's what I understood of it.

Should we expect a "bigger than ever" Nadal turn up this Clay season with serves at 135mph on regular basis? A physical power player with stamina capacity unmatched and that just never tires or cramps at all?

Just days after injury concerns with his left knee forced him out of the Sony Ericsson Open Miami tournament, Rafael Nadal now says his ailing knee is doing well and that he’ll be ready to play the Monte Carlo Masters.

“Hi all. Already in Mallorca wanted to send a message to all my fans. Went to one of my doctors today and the knee is doing well. I expect to be soon practicing and ready to the next competition. Thanks all for your support!!”

What a coincidence this injury revealed just before the clay season..

I don't expect more powerful serves, it's not what he's been looking for on clay.
But do expect louder grunts and a lot of energy..

gallery play wrote:What a coincidence this injury revealed just before the clay season..

I don't expect more powerful serves, it's not what he's been looking for on clay.
But do expect louder grunts and a lot of energy..

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise

gallery play wrote:What a coincidence this injury revealed just before the clay season..

I don't expect more powerful serves, it's not what he's been looking for on clay.
But do expect louder grunts and a lot of energy..

He'll need it!

Of course Nadal is not doping but WADA and the ITF really showed their intent by allowing PRP! It simply gave a green card to all those who wanted to dope safely. I remember at first it allowed to get join PRP only with pre-WADA approval (not muscles to avoind the treatment to get straight to the blood. Then it was possible to ask WADA approval retroactively!!! Then same they allowed PRP intra-muscles, etc...dropping their pants lower and lower....and guess what? finals and semis were lasting longer and longer!

Tenez wrote:

gallery play wrote:What a coincidence this injury revealed just before the clay season..

I don't expect more powerful serves, it's not what he's been looking for on clay.
But do expect louder grunts and a lot of energy..

He'll need it!

Of course Nadal is not doping but WADA and the ITF really showed their intent by allowing PRP! It simply gave a green card to all those who wanted to dope safely. I remember at first it allowed to get join PRP only with pre-WADA approval (not muscles to avoind the treatment to get straight to the blood. Then it was possible to ask WADA approval retroactively!!! Then same they allowed PRP intra-muscles, etc...dropping their pants lower and lower....and guess what? finals and semis were lasting longer and longer!

I really don't know what you're implying Tenez.

reckoner wrote:
I really don't know what you're implying Tenez.

That Llodra is a great talent!

And what's all this about pants?

reckoner wrote:And what's all this about pants?

The pants? dunno, probably those of Alex Lee.

Charming.

BTW mods should probably take your racist comment about Llodra out. Like Nadal doping you ave no proof and that is clearly a case for libel.

Entirely up to the mods, I'm not arrogant enough to tell them what to do!

TRuffin wrote:If I undertand correctly- one of the "operations" discovered Spanish doctors using PRP treatments to cover for doping. Below is some info on how PRP treatments can be used to explain positive doping tests.. PRP is also considered by most to be ineffective, yet these athletes seem to be the only ones with miracoulous results-- thereby leading to a suspicion that it's something else aiding their abilitys not the PRP.

"exactly how PRP therapy might be used either directly for doping or to cover up doping. Are the growth factors that are accentuated via PRP therapy enough by themselves for doping when reinjected, or is there more to it? Since Tony Galea was also caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, I have always assumed the latter. I think this article sheds some light on the subject:
Why it’s worth combining IGF-1 and GH

It would of course be horrendously expensive, but in theory there’s a lot to be said for combining growth hormone [structure shown below] and IGF-1, writes the Dutch endocrinologist Joop Janssen in an article in Reviews in Endocrine Metabolic Disorders. The article is worth looking at if you’re a chemical athlete.

The first argument that Janssen comes up with is that IGF-1 remains active for longer in the body if you inject it in combination with growth hormone. This is because IGF-1 is active for longer if it is attached to the binding protein IGFBP3. If you inject IGF-1 on its own, the production of this binding protein goes down. But if you inject growth hormone and IGF-1 together, the concentration of this binding protein increases. That might mean that you would have to inject less frequently, as IGF-1 breaks down quickly in the body...
We are, of course, looking at the "chemical athlete". I can’t say I have “cracked the code,” but I think that I have a good working theory as to what is going on. When players get an exemption by declaration for a substance (such as salbutamol inhalers), they are then given a pass if the drug test comes up positive for the substance in question. Since PRP is permitted for use by WADA and the ITF by declaration (now both by injection in the joints as well a intramuscular injections), this presumably excuses an athlete from a positive drug test for the products of PRP. This would include a number of substances, but notably Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. So a player would then be able to juice up on HGH and IGF-1, and a positive test (with the already scant testing for these substances) could be chalked up to elevated levels from the PRP therapy. This would give an athlete a pass on two different, and potent, performance enhancing drugs that are even more potent in combination. I have tried to write WADA related to this subject and I haven’t received a reply (and the ITF doesn’t return my e-mails…)."

thanks Truffin. didn't realise that PRP therapy is a cover-up for doping. I'm surprised media are so quiet about it.

as Tenez says "Of course Nadal is not doping " so what's the relevance to this thread?

reckoner wrote:as Tenez says "Of course Nadal is not doping " so what's the relevance to this thread?

none. now what you're going to do about it

From a trusted source of one Nadal's fiercest fans SHE posted this on her fan website yesterday:

"Rafa has given a few words to IB3 and the journalist, David Nadal, has let us know the quotes via his Twitter account ...

"Miami balance is negative. End pain and have me to withdraw is not good. Well,the assessment could also be good."

"Reach the semifinals with all the problems also has great value."

"The first week of the tour (Indian Wells) played pretty well. In doubles was very good. In short, happy with the tour"

"I have to go to the doctor. But it's tendinitis, I have been increasing each day and with Tsonga ending very badly. Lame"

"No sense going out to play. He had trouble walking, running imagine. impossible"

"This does not affect my schedule. Is the same. The first two are Monte Carlo and Barcelona."

Poor Rafa. Its quite shocking to read things like Rafa was lame and had trouble walking. He does seem optimistic though that its not going to affect his schedule, so we just wish him all the best. "

noleisthebest wrote:

reckoner wrote:as Tenez says "Of course Nadal is not doping " so what's the relevance to this thread?

none. now what you're going to do about it

nothing at all what are you going to do about me pointing it out?

got another poem for us?

reckoner wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

reckoner wrote:as Tenez says "Of course Nadal is not doping " so what's the relevance to this thread?

none. now what you're going to do about it

nothing at all what are you going to do about me pointing it out?

got another poem for us?

If you insist:

Envy
By Mary Lamb
This rose-tree is not made to bear
The violet blue, nor lily fair,
Nor the sweet mignionet:
And if this tree were discontent,
Or wished to change its natural bent,
It all in vain would fret.

And should it fret, you would suppose
It ne’er had seen its own red rose,
Nor after gentle shower
Had ever smelled its rose’s scent,
Or it could ne’er be discontent
With its own pretty flower.

Like such a blind and senseless tree
As I’ve imagined this to be,
All envious persons are:
With care and culture all may find
Some pretty flower in their own mind,
Some talent that is rare.

wow, copy and paste, you are so talented

reckoner wrote:wow, copy and paste, you are so talented

I don't throw pearls before swine.

noleisthebest wrote:

reckoner wrote:wow, copy and paste, you are so talented

I don't throw pearls before swine.

hey don't be so mad, I totally like Siberian women!

noleisthebest wrote:

TRuffin wrote:If I undertand correctly- one of the "operations" discovered Spanish doctors using PRP treatments to cover for doping. Below is some info on how PRP treatments can be used to explain positive doping tests.. PRP is also considered by most to be ineffective, yet these athletes seem to be the only ones with miracoulous results-- thereby leading to a suspicion that it's something else aiding their abilitys not the PRP.

"exactly how PRP therapy might be used either directly for doping or to cover up doping. Are the growth factors that are accentuated via PRP therapy enough by themselves for doping when reinjected, or is there more to it? Since Tony Galea was also caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, I have always assumed the latter. I think this article sheds some light on the subject:
Why it’s worth combining IGF-1 and GH

It would of course be horrendously expensive, but in theory there’s a lot to be said for combining growth hormone [structure shown below] and IGF-1, writes the Dutch endocrinologist Joop Janssen in an article in Reviews in Endocrine Metabolic Disorders. The article is worth looking at if you’re a chemical athlete.

The first argument that Janssen comes up with is that IGF-1 remains active for longer in the body if you inject it in combination with growth hormone. This is because IGF-1 is active for longer if it is attached to the binding protein IGFBP3. If you inject IGF-1 on its own, the production of this binding protein goes down. But if you inject growth hormone and IGF-1 together, the concentration of this binding protein increases. That might mean that you would have to inject less frequently, as IGF-1 breaks down quickly in the body...
We are, of course, looking at the "chemical athlete". I can’t say I have “cracked the code,” but I think that I have a good working theory as to what is going on. When players get an exemption by declaration for a substance (such as salbutamol inhalers), they are then given a pass if the drug test comes up positive for the substance in question. Since PRP is permitted for use by WADA and the ITF by declaration (now both by injection in the joints as well a intramuscular injections), this presumably excuses an athlete from a positive drug test for the products of PRP. This would include a number of substances, but notably Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. So a player would then be able to juice up on HGH and IGF-1, and a positive test (with the already scant testing for these substances) could be chalked up to elevated levels from the PRP therapy. This would give an athlete a pass on two different, and potent, performance enhancing drugs that are even more potent in combination. I have tried to write WADA related to this subject and I haven’t received a reply (and the ITF doesn’t return my e-mails…)."

thanks Truffin. didn't realise that PRP therapy is a cover-up for doping. I'm surprised media are so quiet about it.

No offense, but I think people give the media too much credit when it comes to uncovering issues or the truth. From my time in the boxing industry, I can tell you media and esp sports media is just part of the big moneymaking cycle and will not rock the boat unless their hand is forced by some outside or greater force.. Look at the Tiger Woods stuff- multiple reporters knew about it, but only after a girl went to the tabloids and it was leaked, did the journalists care-- because they didn't want to be scooped and there was new money to be made.

Companies like IMG which represent many top tennis players have their hands in everything, including the media. Nobody is going to kill the golden gooses unless there is no choice.

Therefore, they report that a treatment is taking place, but don't dig further.

Truffin, you seem to know a lot about this. What's your opinion of Djokovic's gluten-free diet and sudden transformation from MTO taking asthmatic to iron man?

Also there seems to be rumour going around that Soderling is serving a silent suspension of some sort?

TRuffin wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

TRuffin wrote:If I undertand correctly- one of the "operations" discovered Spanish doctors using PRP treatments to cover for doping. Below is some info on how PRP treatments can be used to explain positive doping tests.. PRP is also considered by most to be ineffective, yet these athletes seem to be the only ones with miracoulous results-- thereby leading to a suspicion that it's something else aiding their abilitys not the PRP.

"exactly how PRP therapy might be used either directly for doping or to cover up doping. Are the growth factors that are accentuated via PRP therapy enough by themselves for doping when reinjected, or is there more to it? Since Tony Galea was also caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, I have always assumed the latter. I think this article sheds some light on the subject:
Why it’s worth combining IGF-1 and GH

It would of course be horrendously expensive, but in theory there’s a lot to be said for combining growth hormone [structure shown below] and IGF-1, writes the Dutch endocrinologist Joop Janssen in an article in Reviews in Endocrine Metabolic Disorders. The article is worth looking at if you’re a chemical athlete.

The first argument that Janssen comes up with is that IGF-1 remains active for longer in the body if you inject it in combination with growth hormone. This is because IGF-1 is active for longer if it is attached to the binding protein IGFBP3. If you inject IGF-1 on its own, the production of this binding protein goes down. But if you inject growth hormone and IGF-1 together, the concentration of this binding protein increases. That might mean that you would have to inject less frequently, as IGF-1 breaks down quickly in the body...
We are, of course, looking at the "chemical athlete". I can’t say I have “cracked the code,” but I think that I have a good working theory as to what is going on. When players get an exemption by declaration for a substance (such as salbutamol inhalers), they are then given a pass if the drug test comes up positive for the substance in question. Since PRP is permitted for use by WADA and the ITF by declaration (now both by injection in the joints as well a intramuscular injections), this presumably excuses an athlete from a positive drug test for the products of PRP. This would include a number of substances, but notably Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. So a player would then be able to juice up on HGH and IGF-1, and a positive test (with the already scant testing for these substances) could be chalked up to elevated levels from the PRP therapy. This would give an athlete a pass on two different, and potent, performance enhancing drugs that are even more potent in combination. I have tried to write WADA related to this subject and I haven’t received a reply (and the ITF doesn’t return my e-mails…)."

thanks Truffin. didn't realise that PRP therapy is a cover-up for doping. I'm surprised media are so quiet about it.

No offense, but I think people give the media too much credit when it comes to uncovering issues or the truth. From my time in the boxing industry, I can tell you media and esp sports media is just part of the big moneymaking cycle and will not rock the boat unless their hand is forced by some outside or greater force.. Look at the Tiger Woods stuff- multiple reporters knew about it, but only after a girl went to the tabloids and it was leaked, did the journalists care-- because they didn't want to be scooped and there was new money to be made.

Companies like IMG which represent many top tennis players have their hands in everything, including the media. Nobody is going to kill the golden gooses unless there is no choice.

Therefore, they report that a treatment is taking place, but don't dig further.

My comment about media was tongue in cheek.

Today's idea of journalism is sucking up to each other on Twitter and occasionally make a story a 'la Llodra-gate.

noleisthebest wrote:
My comment about media was tongue in cheek.

I suppose you don't think there's anything fishy about Noleeeeeeeeee turning into superman overnight?

reckoner wrote:Also there seems to be rumour going around that Soderling is serving a silent suspension of some sort?

I got the impression that a certain 'well built' WTA star also served one of these 'silent suspensions' too?

djlovesyou wrote:

reckoner wrote:Also there seems to be rumour going around that Soderling is serving a silent suspension of some sort?

I got the impression that a certain 'well built' WTA star also served one of these 'silent suspensions' too?

OMG if it's the one I think you mean... the photos were scary!!!

This photo was commented on a while ago. Tipsy's thighs:

https://yfrog.com/h4oh5rhj:iphone

noleisthebest wrote:

TRuffin wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

TRuffin wrote:If I undertand correctly- one of the "operations" discovered Spanish doctors using PRP treatments to cover for doping. Below is some info on how PRP treatments can be used to explain positive doping tests.. PRP is also considered by most to be ineffective, yet these athletes seem to be the only ones with miracoulous results-- thereby leading to a suspicion that it's something else aiding their abilitys not the PRP.

"exactly how PRP therapy might be used either directly for doping or to cover up doping. Are the growth factors that are accentuated via PRP therapy enough by themselves for doping when reinjected, or is there more to it? Since Tony Galea was also caught smuggling growth hormone into the country, I have always assumed the latter. I think this article sheds some light on the subject:
Why it’s worth combining IGF-1 and GH

It would of course be horrendously expensive, but in theory there’s a lot to be said for combining growth hormone [structure shown below] and IGF-1, writes the Dutch endocrinologist Joop Janssen in an article in Reviews in Endocrine Metabolic Disorders. The article is worth looking at if you’re a chemical athlete.

The first argument that Janssen comes up with is that IGF-1 remains active for longer in the body if you inject it in combination with growth hormone. This is because IGF-1 is active for longer if it is attached to the binding protein IGFBP3. If you inject IGF-1 on its own, the production of this binding protein goes down. But if you inject growth hormone and IGF-1 together, the concentration of this binding protein increases. That might mean that you would have to inject less frequently, as IGF-1 breaks down quickly in the body...
We are, of course, looking at the "chemical athlete". I can’t say I have “cracked the code,” but I think that I have a good working theory as to what is going on. When players get an exemption by declaration for a substance (such as salbutamol inhalers), they are then given a pass if the drug test comes up positive for the substance in question. Since PRP is permitted for use by WADA and the ITF by declaration (now both by injection in the joints as well a intramuscular injections), this presumably excuses an athlete from a positive drug test for the products of PRP. This would include a number of substances, but notably Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. So a player would then be able to juice up on HGH and IGF-1, and a positive test (with the already scant testing for these substances) could be chalked up to elevated levels from the PRP therapy. This would give an athlete a pass on two different, and potent, performance enhancing drugs that are even more potent in combination. I have tried to write WADA related to this subject and I haven’t received a reply (and the ITF doesn’t return my e-mails…)."

thanks Truffin. didn't realise that PRP therapy is a cover-up for doping. I'm surprised media are so quiet about it.

No offense, but I think people give the media too much credit when it comes to uncovering issues or the truth. From my time in the boxing industry, I can tell you media and esp sports media is just part of the big moneymaking cycle and will not rock the boat unless their hand is forced by some outside or greater force.. Look at the Tiger Woods stuff- multiple reporters knew about it, but only after a girl went to the tabloids and it was leaked, did the journalists care-- because they didn't want to be scooped and there was new money to be made.

Companies like IMG which represent many top tennis players have their hands in everything, including the media. Nobody is going to kill the golden gooses unless there is no choice.

Therefore, they report that a treatment is taking place, but don't dig further.

My comment about media was tongue in cheek.

Today's idea of journalism is sucking up to each other on Twitter and occasionally make a story a 'la Llodra-gate.

lol.. okay I got it now..

reckoner wrote:Truffin, you seem to know a lot about this. What's your opinion of Djokovic's gluten-free diet and sudden transformation from MTO taking asthmatic to iron man?

I am told we're not supposed to talk about specific players :-)............... but when things are too good to be true they typically are :-). Nothing would surprise me given the money that is generated by these guys.. Even the countries themselves-- think of the glory it brings to a place like Serbia. They would do anything or ignore anything for that.

TRuffin wrote:

reckoner wrote:Truffin, you seem to know a lot about this. What's your opinion of Djokovic's gluten-free diet and sudden transformation from MTO taking asthmatic to iron man?

I am told we're not supposed to talk about specific players :-)............... but when things are too good to be true they typically are :-). Nothing would surprise me given the money that is generated by these guys.. Even the countries themselves-- think of the glory it brings to a place like Serbia. They would do anything or ignore anything for that.

Thanks Truffin, I completely agree with that sentiment. I didn't realise we weren't supposed to discuss specific players, you wouldn't think it the amount of time the Rafa PED gets on these forums, where "gluten-free" goes largely unchallenged. Possibly because there's a sense of relief that someone is regularly beating Nadal at last!

Dr Igor's site makes me laugh - can you believe the "qualifications" the guy quotes?! Ben Goldacre would have a field day!

Please feel free to check my sent items, I can send a screenshot if necessary.