Was the Haye/ Chisora brawl good for boxing?

Simple question - with the slow decline in mainstream interest in boxing (especially heavyweight boxing), have the antics of these two Jim Henson creations actually done the sport some good?

Let's hear your thoughts.....

Some ways yes, some ways no, do we want the type of people that are turning on due to fights breaking out in press conferences in boxing is a big question.

In the short term and for these two fighters yes, it is, in the long run more and more people will be turned off by such antics, so probably not.

Yes on condition that chisora delivers in the rest of his fights. Otherwise no.

Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. Most are simply laughing at the guys and not taking the sanctimonious moral high ground as plenty are here.

If you want boxing to continue its downward slope into being a minority sport, then laud the K bros and their brand of gentlemanly conduct. For me I find that it drives people away from the sport and makes it a footnote in the back pages.

If it requires something like this to put boxing on the map then it's high time somebody started to address the deeper issues.

The way things are going we'll see only the worst kind of football supporter turning up at boxing shows.

Shambolic disgrace, the lot of it.

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

I see the other side of the argument but I tend to think no. Boxing should be able to sell itself without this kind of thing and I think its sad in many ways that it should be seen to take this kind of thing to become interesting. Almost as if the contest and sport itself on its own isnt enough.

Boxing (maybe MMA?) appears to be the only sport where this kind of thing seems to be justified or excused. Look at Suarez/Evra situation in football. It probably created more headlines and interest in the Man United/Liverpool game than there would have otherwise been. Quite possibly more tuned in because of it. But it was damaging to the image and principles of the game and should not have a place in sport. Neither should the actions earlier in my view.

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

There it is.

Windy - you copping flak from your end?

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Can't +1 that enough.

It remains infinitely sad that this is what is required to put some interest back into the heavies.

Provided nobody gets banned, they'd well better deliver in the ring for that fiasco. Even more sadly they probably won't.

I'll go with Zhou En-Lai's (often misquoted as Mao) answer when asked as to the significance of the French Revolution

Zhou EnLai wrote: It's too soon to say

Now - even though it turns out that Zhou may have thought he was being asked about the 1968 Paris Commune, rather than the famous 1789 Bastille event - it is still a great quote.

And it applies perfectly here.

Once again, we have the awful spectacle of people talking more about what happens outside the ring than in it. That isn't good for boxing.

However - if this persuades Haye to get off his bum, get a license and fight Chisora in October after the BBBoC have served him his unofficial 6 month ban - it might be a good thing. It would be even better if Chisora could beat him and actually build up a fan base.

If this re-ignites the public's interest in what is a talent-packed HW division - then it could be a good thing - IF the fighters deliver INSIDE the ring as well.

If both men fade into pathetic obscurity, with Haye re-emerging for a stint on Strictly in a couple of years when his Hollywood career hasn't gone as he quite planned - then its a fail.

Yet notice - I can only say "might" or "could" be a good thing.

My principles tell me - that if boxing needs these antics to sell itself - because the action isn't good enough - that is not a good thing. Nor, as I keep saying is it a sustainable business model. Things need to ramp up each time to maintain the public's interest and we will have a soap opera spectacle before every fight.

Furthermore - it makes British fighters look slightly unhinged. Look at Vitali's face on the post-fight video. Its bemused entertainment.

At the moment - there is no way that post-fight farce was positive. It could be turned into a positive - depending what occurs in the coming months.

Knowsit17 wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Can't +1 that enough.

It remains infinitely sad that this is what is required to put some interest back into the heavies.

Provided nobody gets banned, they'd well better deliver in the ring for that fiasco. Even more sadly they probably won't.

Agreed. Rowley - you are a concise genius.

I suppose with just how dead the HW division has been, I guess it needed soemthing like this in a way... If you can see what I mean without getting all moral on me.

ShahenshahG wrote:Windy - you copping flak from your end?

Ha!

From the Germans, you mean?

No, our Teutonic cousins regard us all as a bunch of island dwelling inbreds, anyway. They even nickname us 'Island monkeys' or 'Cliff piddlers.' Mercifully, they seem to regard me as a harmless old sod who had the sense to move to the Promised Land and take a German wife.

Middle age has its rich compensations.

HumanWindmill wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Windy - you copping flak from your end?

Ha!

From the Germans, you mean?
No, our Teutonic cousins regard us all as a bunch of island dwelling inbreds, anyway. They even nickname us 'Island monkeys' or 'Cliff piddlers.' Mercifully, they seem to regard me as a harmless old sod who had the sense to move to the Promised Land and take a German wife.

Middle age has its rich compensations.

Actually I was wondering if you were excreting violently


Damn - I was wondering if you were going to get your disguise out again ala Hopkins pavlik

bad that boxing had to go down this route(its possible all staged)

but in a way good- because it will be injecting interest and money back into the HW division. hopefully better times are to come. but without america will it ever be the same!

To be honest I genuinely do NOT think this was staged Oakey, this seemed very real, those punches were certainly real and I think Chisora was genuinely annoyed. Stuff like Mosley walking in on Mayweathers post fight interview is staged no dobut!

Yes. Only thing is why is it that these 2 are getting heavily criticised when there's been far worse in the past? is it because they're poor compared to them?

Saying you'll shoot someone is very bad but nowhere near Mike Tyson saying he was gonna eat someones kids on live tv in a press conference.

I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Silly analogy rowley. Boxing is dying as we speak. It needs an injection to get people talking about it. If 2 MMA fighters brawl before and after a fight it doesn't make any paper. Hardcore MMA fans will know of it because they search it out. But boxing is a global sport which is being marginalised. It needed an injection of attitude to get tongues wagging. When people talk about boxing it can only be good for the sport even if its a couple of idiots who causes it.

jay-z wrote:I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

Very true. I dont think football suffered when Cantona kung fu kicked that bloke.

azania wrote:

jay-z wrote:I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

Very true. I dont think football suffered when Cantona kung fu kicked that bloke.

How did football get on in the face of widespread violence and hooliganism?

That made the news, too.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Silly analogy rowley. Boxing is dying as we speak. It needs an injection to get people talking about it. If 2 MMA fighters brawl before and after a fight it doesn't make any paper. Hardcore MMA fans will know of it because they search it out. But boxing is a global sport which is being marginalised. It needed an injection of attitude to get tongues wagging. When people talk about boxing it can only be good for the sport even if its a couple of idiots who causes it.

You might wanna watch the Alex Reid and Jason barrett "scuffles" now THAT was embarassing for MMA.
This is two people that got a bit wreckless with each other and happened accidentally, these things happen, it wasn't purposeful.

HumanWindmill wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Windy - you copping flak from your end?

Ha!

From the Germans, you mean?

No, our Teutonic cousins regard us all as a bunch of island dwelling inbreds, anyway. They even nickname us 'Island monkeys' or 'Cliff piddlers.' Mercifully, they seem to regard me as a harmless old sod who had the sense to move to the Promised Land and take a German wife.

Middle age has its rich compensations.

Thats not just the Germans, Windy

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

jay-z wrote:I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

Very true. I dont think football suffered when Cantona kung fu kicked that bloke.

How did football get on in the face of widespread violence and hooliganism?

That made the news, too.

A concerted effort was made to promote the game and efforts were made to erradicate violence outside the game. What's important tough is that the kick gave Cantona global appeal. If football were an individual sport then Cantona would have been the highest earner and more bums would have been on seats.

Not good for the image of boxing obviously, but good for entertainment, and i for one would be interested in Haye v Chisora, Del Boy comes to fight, has a massive heart and if Haye never put him away early it would get interesting, because Chisora has a much better engine and chin, Haye should not have been at the press conference though, he has no class whatsoever. It was about Chisora and Vitali not Haye.

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

jay-z wrote:I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

Very true. I dont think football suffered when Cantona kung fu kicked that bloke.

How did football get on in the face of widespread violence and hooliganism?

That made the news, too.

A concerted effort was made to promote the game and efforts were made to erradicate violence outside the game. What's important tough is that the kick gave Cantona global appeal. If football were an individual sport then Cantona would have been the highest earner and more bums would have been on seats.

Let me get this straight - you're asking for common assault to promote the sport?

You're arguing that hitting someone over the head with a tripod is just what we need to promote the sport?

So in 2 years time, when tripods are boring and the public have lost interest in press conference brawls - what's the escalation? Should Chisora wander round, make love to David Haye's significant other and film it and post it online? Should Haye burn one of the brother's houses down to keep us interested?

You're sounding better suited to WWE. Lets leave them play those sorts of stunts and leave boxing to the grown-ups.

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Silly analogy rowley. Boxing is dying as we speak. It needs an injection to get people talking about it. If 2 MMA fighters brawl before and after a fight it doesn't make any paper. Hardcore MMA fans will know of it because they search it out. But boxing is a global sport which is being marginalised. It needed an injection of attitude to get tongues wagging. When people talk about boxing it can only be good for the sport even if its a couple of idiots who causes it.

It is not in any way a silly analogy, if the only way boxing can get on the front pages is by its fighters behaving in a way that serves to reinforce every lazy stereotype about the sport as the sewer of professional sport and the participants of it as little more than violent thugs with gloves it cannot be anything other than harmful to the sport. I agree boxing needs an injection of interest but it should be provided by Manny and Floyd signing to fight, David Haye coming within 100 yards of actually backing up his claims to reinvigorate the division INSIDE the ring, the governing bodies uniting to provide the sport with only one champion per division or countless other acts which would give the press the chance to write about the sport in a positive light.

Adam D wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Windy - you copping flak from your end?

Ha!

From the Germans, you mean?

No, our Teutonic cousins regard us all as a bunch of island dwelling inbreds, anyway. They even nickname us 'Island monkeys' or 'Cliff piddlers.' Mercifully, they seem to regard me as a harmless old sod who had the sense to move to the Promised Land and take a German wife.

Middle age has its rich compensations.

Thats not just the Germans, Windy

Nice to know, Adam.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

HumanWindmill wrote:

azania wrote:

jay-z wrote:I think Manny and Mayweather not fighting is a bigger disgrace to our sport than what happened last night.

Very true. I dont think football suffered when Cantona kung fu kicked that bloke.

How did football get on in the face of widespread violence and hooliganism?

That made the news, too.

A concerted effort was made to promote the game and efforts were made to erradicate violence outside the game. What's important tough is that the kick gave Cantona global appeal. If football were an individual sport then Cantona would have been the highest earner and more bums would have been on seats.

Let me get this straight - you're asking for common assault to promote the sport?

You're arguing that hitting someone over the head with a tripod is just what we need to promote the sport?

So in 2 years time, when tripods are boring and the public have lost interest in press conference brawls - what's the escalation? Should Chisora wander round, make love to David Haye's significant other and film it and post it online? Should Haye burn one of the brother's houses down to keep us interested?

You're sounding better suited to WWE. Lets leave them play those sorts of stunts and leave boxing to the grown-ups.

I'm arguing nothing of thje sort. But dont let me stop you though.

Didn't Ali fire at Liston's house or something crazy like that?

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:Its brilliant for boxing. Boxing barely makes the back pages. Now its on the front page and everyone is talking about boxing. .

I never make the papers, I might go and kill my next door neighbour and his family, I'll be all over the papers then and everyone will be talking about me, which is all that matters, right?

Silly analogy rowley. Boxing is dying as we speak. It needs an injection to get people talking about it. If 2 MMA fighters brawl before and after a fight it doesn't make any paper. Hardcore MMA fans will know of it because they search it out. But boxing is a global sport which is being marginalised. It needed an injection of attitude to get tongues wagging. When people talk about boxing it can only be good for the sport even if its a couple of idiots who causes it.

It is not in any way a silly analogy, if the only way boxing can get on the front pages is by its fighters behaving in a way that serves to reinforce every lazy stereotype about the sport as the sewer of professional sport and the participants of it as little more than violent thugs with gloves it cannot be anything other than harmful to the sport. I agree boxing needs an injection of interest but it should be provided by Manny and Floyd signing to fight, David Haye coming within 100 yards of actually backing up his claims to reinvigorate the division INSIDE the ring, the governing bodies uniting to provide the sport with only one champion per division or countless other acts which would give the press the chance to write about the sport in a positive light.

That would be correct if that was the only way. That is isn't the only way means it is not correct.

Sorry Az I have literally no idea what that means

So we don't fanny around with your sophistry for the afternoon az:

Simples questions:

Do you think Haye's manager being assaulted with a tripod was good for the sport of boxing?

Do you think boxing needs more characters like Chisora, who kiss and bite opponents and beat up ex girlfriends?

Apparently all publicity is good publicity oxy. Gary Glitter and Michael Barrymore would tell you exactly the same thing.

Not good at all. Boxing is a sport that can keep people away from gang cultures through grit and perseverance. Having bare knuckle brawls and threatening to shoot and burn people does boxing's image no good.

The general puclib may well see this and think it's common as it's the only time boxing will make the front pages. This is rare, I can't name any press conference brawls as violent as this. We may also have lost Britain's 2 best heavyweights to bans.

rowley wrote:Apparently all publicity is good publicity oxy. Gary Glitter and Michael Barrymore would tell you exactly the same thing.

oh lol what a mental comparison- try and get your feet back on the ground

rowley wrote:Sorry Az I have literally no idea what that means

The OP asked if what happened was good for boxing. I agreed. You then claimed if the ONLY way yadda yadda yadda. It isn't the ony way and I have never alluded that it was the ONLY way.

I dont want to be misquoted again.

Fancy answering my questions az?

Well what I am saying is it isn't the only way, it is the wrong way for boxing to get publicity and as such bad for the sport. Just because there is no will in the sport to get its house in order and gain publicity or press through the proper means that should not mean we as fans are willing accept us using shameful means to achieve the same end, hence my analogy. I do nothing that would warrant the press writing about me, does not mean if I do something beyond the pale of acceptability it will be OK because I will have got some press and raised my profile, nor is it acceptable in boxing.

oxring wrote:So we don't fanny around with your sophistry for the afternoon az:

Simples questions:

Do you think Haye's manager being assaulted with a tripod was good for the sport of boxing?

Do you think boxing needs more characters like Chisora, who kiss and bite opponents and beat up ex girlfriends?

Question answered without sophistry in my first post and that I voted yes.

Boxing needs characters and not dreary dross like the Ks. I dont condone wife beating. But what is floyd going inside for?

How much did Tyson get when he came out of prison compared to his last fight prior to his sentence? What he was convicted of was worse than anything those 2 guys did. But as soon as he was released, boxing became big news again.

oxring wrote:Fancy answering my questions az?

When have you known me to duck a question?

I voted yes btw.

rowley wrote:Well what I am saying is it isn't the only way, it is the wrong way for boxing to get publicity and as such bad for the sport. Just because there is no will in the sport to get its house in order and gain publicity or press through the proper means that should not mean we as fans are willing accept us using shameful means to achieve the same end, hence my analogy. I do nothing that would warrant the press writing about me, does not mean if I do something beyond the pale of acceptability it will be OK because I will have got some press and raised my profile, nor is it acceptable in boxing.

I dont believe there is a right or wrong way (short of killing someone that is). 2 boxers brawling. No big deal. They are not role models. Anyone who sees boxers as role models needs a head check.

I can bet now that TV will be interested in Chisora and Haye as never before.

rowley wrote:Well what I am saying is it isn't the only way, it is the wrong way for boxing to get publicity and as such bad for the sport. Just because there is no will in the sport to get its house in order and gain publicity or press through the proper means that should not mean we as fans are willing accept us using shameful means to achieve the same end, hence my analogy. I do nothing that would warrant the press writing about me, does not mean if I do something beyond the pale of acceptability it will be OK because I will have got some press and raised my profile, nor is it acceptable in boxing.

look rowley its simple- in this case we can use the expression 'all publicity is good publicity' - now we dont mean that in a literal way. Do i really have to explain when and how you should use that expression?

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:So we don't fanny around with your sophistry for the afternoon az:

Simples questions:

Do you think Haye's manager being assaulted with a tripod was good for the sport of boxing?

Do you think boxing needs more characters like Chisora, who kiss and bite opponents and beat up ex girlfriends?

Question answered without sophistry in my first post and that I voted yes.

Boxing needs characters and not dreary dross like the Ks. I dont condone wife beating. But what is floyd going inside for?

How much did Tyson get when he came out of prison compared to his last fight prior to his sentence? What he was convicted of was worse than anything those 2 guys did. But as soon as he was released, boxing became big news again.

So to sell ones fights, brawling at press conferences is acceptable.

What happens when the public are bored with press conference brawls, with women beating, with slapping opponents before they fight?

Whats your escalation step? Seemed to me you wish to turn this sport into a soap opera.

"So to sell ones fights, brawling at press conferences is acceptable.

What
happens when the public are bored with press conference brawls, with
women beating, with slapping opponents before they fight?

Whats your escalation step? Seemed to me you wish to turn this sport into a soap opera."

slow down ox- jeas, one step at a time lol

all boxing needs is the best fighters figthing each other- the sooner the k's get beat up the better, because they wont fight each other- we need big billing fights- numbers 1 and 2 fighting each other- unification fights,

at the moment its got nothing of the sort- so yes better to treat it exactly as what it is - just pure 'hollywood' to get viewers

It was bad for boxing and bad for British boxing. It was also a bad thing for Dereck whose In-ring performance had just bumped him several places up the HW list and then he threw it all away with a few stupid words.

Chisora accused Haye of spoiling things for up and coming fighters and then repeatedly threatened to shoot him and burn him. I fail to see how that's better for British fighters than putting in a tame performance on PPV.

Haye was within his rights to ask the K's why he wasn't being offered a rematch after apparently agreeing terms last year. Chisora was understandably aggrieved that Haye was gatecrashing the party but the matter only escalated once Chisora stepped off the podium.

Neither man acquitted himself well after that but to suggest that sort of behaviour is good for boxing says more about the OP than anything else.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

oxring wrote:So we don't fanny around with your sophistry for the afternoon az:

Simples questions:

Do you think Haye's manager being assaulted with a tripod was good for the sport of boxing?

Do you think boxing needs more characters like Chisora, who kiss and bite opponents and beat up ex girlfriends?

Question answered without sophistry in my first post and that I voted yes.

Boxing needs characters and not dreary dross like the Ks. I dont condone wife beating. But what is floyd going inside for?

How much did Tyson get when he came out of prison compared to his last fight prior to his sentence? What he was convicted of was worse than anything those 2 guys did. But as soon as he was released, boxing became big news again.

So to sell ones fights, brawling at press conferences is acceptable.

What happens when the public are bored with press conference brawls, with women beating, with slapping opponents before they fight?

Whats your escalation step? Seemed to me you wish to turn this sport into a soap opera.

Its been done countless times. Ali/Frazier didn't need any selling yet they did it. All forgiven though.

Get off your high horse and realise that this is boxing where the ridiculous is often the norm and acceptable.

If it happens all the time then it would be silly. That is happens sometimes can be brushed away with a shrug. I cant understand why people are getting their knickers in a twist for. No-one got hurt and now we're all talking about boxing which is all good.

Peace will break out hombre.

DAVE667 wrote:It was bad for boxing and bad for British boxing. It was also a bad thing for Dereck whose In-ring performance had just bumped him several places up the HW list and then he threw it all away with a few stupid words.

Chisora accused Haye of spoiling things for up and coming fighters and then repeatedly threatened to shoot him and burn him. I fail to see how that's better for British fighters than putting in a tame performance on PPV.

Haye was within his rights to ask the K's why he wasn't being offered a rematch after apparently agreeing terms last year. Chisora was understandably aggrieved that Haye was gatecrashing the party but the matter only escalated once Chisora stepped off the podium.

Neither man acquitted himself well after that but to suggest that sort of behaviour is good for boxing says more about the OP than anything else.

You're kidding. His antics have shifted the decimal point to the right in his next pay cheque.

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:It was bad for boxing and bad for British boxing. It was also a bad thing for Dereck whose In-ring performance had just bumped him several places up the HW list and then he threw it all away with a few stupid words.

Chisora accused Haye of spoiling things for up and coming fighters and then repeatedly threatened to shoot him and burn him. I fail to see how that's better for British fighters than putting in a tame performance on PPV.

Haye was within his rights to ask the K's why he wasn't being offered a rematch after apparently agreeing terms last year. Chisora was understandably aggrieved that Haye was gatecrashing the party but the matter only escalated once Chisora stepped off the podium.

Neither man acquitted himself well after that but to suggest that sort of behaviour is good for boxing says more about the OP than anything else.

You're kidding. His antics have shifted the decimal point to the right in his next pay cheque.

Which might not come for another year or more. And might go towards paying off the fines hes bound to accumulate.

Is it good for Boxing? Not at all, Chisora was in a fight last night for the heavyweight Championship of the World, the pinnacle of the Sport, yet you would never know it, it's all a bit cloak and dagger and one guy screaming he's going to shoot people is hardly the type of PR that will bring in a core of genuine fans with boxing in their hearts.

It all came across as a bit WWE/UFC to me, where was the dicipline these guys are supposed to have?

If this was a cheap PR stunt then the biggest worry for me would be are things so bad that they need to resort to this in order to get a bit of interest going