best u20 players in each position british and irish only

First topic message reminder :

who do you think are best u20 players coming through and what would your u20 lions style look like?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Aw Morgan give it a rest and clear off will ye. You think you would have learnt from your ban. I'm not getting into an argument with you.

Have you not learnt from your ban Rory? Posters are getting tired of your bickering with Welsh posters.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Because Paddy Jackson is better.

Now I've seen everything!

Well the Welsh 10 against Ireland was second best to Jackson in their head to head so Rory's claimn is a reasonable one .

That's desperate. I watched the game and it was probably the worst U20 game I have seen. There wasn't anything between the two 10's. Jackson is seriously overhyped (the hype is on-going from last season). Also, he was compared to Matthew Morgan which makes your point an irrelevant one.

Matthew Morgan was the player you picked - so someone think he is the best.

As for standard well Wales may have been poor but that Irish team, with Jackson at 10, went on to beat the French which is not a bad result.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:And I still stand by what I said. Morgan hasn't shown anything to prove he is a great player yet, IMO. He looks good. But that is about the height of it so far.

Well Paddy Jackson hasn't show me anything to prove he is a great player yet. We'll see how these guys turn out in a few years and we'll see who's right.

It is called debating Morgan, and so far I have had absolutely no trouble with any of the welsh people on this thread until you shown up. Have any of the welsh, bar yourself, had a problem with what I have said in this thread? If so, they can let me know.

On topic, you did suggest Humphreys to be the back-up 10 for Ireland and challenge for the shirt, so I don't really think your opinion on Jackson is based on much. Jackson was very poor in his kicking, but in other aspects of his game he was very good. I haven't been impressed by Morgan yet, though I am also not going to disregard his ability. I am just saying I am yet to be impressed by him.

gowales wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:And I still stand by what I said. Morgan hasn't shown anything to prove he is a great player yet, IMO. He looks good. But that is about the height of it so far.

Well Paddy Jackson hasn't show me anything to prove he is a great player yet. We'll see how these guys turn out in a few years and we'll see who's right.

We will indeed, but I don't think either will break onto the international scene anytime soon. Madigan is going to be the next 10 for Ireland I feel.

No player at this stage of there career can be described as great.

I was great at that age. Then I started drinking, smoking and chasing women. If not for that I'd be a Lion by now, as well as a professional golfer and tennis player.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:It is called debating Morgan, and so far I have had absolutely no trouble with any of the welsh people on this thread until you shown up. Have any of the welsh, bar yourself, had a problem with what I have said in this thread? If so, they can let me know.

On topic, you did suggest Humphreys to be the back-up 10 for Ireland and challenge for the shirt, so I don't really think your opinion on Jackson is based on much. Jackson was very poor in his kicking, but in other aspects of his game he was very good. I haven't been impressed by Morgan yet, though I am also not going to disregard his ability. I am just saying I am yet to be impressed by him.

Really? So what do you call argueing with Welsh posters on the Lydiate MOTM thread? Oh dear.

If you think you are having 'trouble' then you have issues. Nobody claimed to have a problem with what you said even though when you type I sometimes think you pull a red fist over your eyes.

With regards to Humphreys that was months ago and it is not on topic to this discussion. However, as you have brought it up numerous times in the past in a desperate and failed attempt to show me up, I suggested could he ever be a back up to Sexton/O'Gara and discussed it with the knowledgable Ireland fans (so that obviously excludes you). My opinion on Jackson is based on seeing him in two U20s tournaments and the matches I could see in the last junior world cup. He is very overhyped and does not deserve or live up to that hype. Neither he or Morgan are great players. Only you used the word 'great.' Morgan is clearly the better player though and has been tested at a higher level more often.

geoff998rugby wrote:No player at this stage of there career can be described as great.

Exactly. All the players mentioned will get better but by how much. Its rare that 19 year olds could be described as world class. James O'Connor is the only one I can think of. George North too is almost there.

The problem with judging these players is seeing how they cope when stepping up a level. Some fellas are big for underage rugby but ordinary size for professional rugby. Also you have races which reach adulthood a few years quicker than other races. That and their coaching talent is the reason NZ win all U20 competitions fairly easily.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Witty and on topic as ever Rory. I bet Feb 14th was a busy day for your mail box given that attractive and transparent personality you have.

Well I have neither alliance for Tigers or Saracens and still disagree with you Beshocked, you just seem to spout biased nonsense judging by your posts on here.

Well I have neither alliance for Tigers or Saracens and still disagree with you Beshocked, you just seem to spout biased nonsense judging by your posts on here..

Bit harsh on the man. He does talk some sense and we are all slightly one eyed when it comes to our favourite players, remember Farrell was one of the key components of Sarries dull AP winning team last season so it's only natural a Sarries fan will rate him highly.

Jordan Williams will be better than Jackson, Matthew Morgan and anybody else in the home nations. Just give it 3 years or so.

Yea it was a tad harsh....don't see anything in Farrell though. If we're looking for a good goal kicker I'd prefer Homer was picked and shunted out on the wing in place of Strettle.

Sgt Pooly it is likely I have watched more rugby involving Farrell, know more about the player etc so are better placed to judge him than yourself.

I do acknowledge Farrell's flaws and limitations yet I feel he has strengths that are under appreciated.


Thank you Sam. We have our differences but I do think you make good points in general. Saracens play dull because the game plan works. They generally win.

Too many limitations though for an International centre surely??? Taking away his goal kicking (When Flood is back he's as steady) I struggle to think of a more average centre playing for the top nations.

Sgt Pooly Owen Farrell has not looked overawed though has he? Remember he is a 20 year old. Plenty of time for him to hone his skills. Better centres might expose him but one step at a time - he's passed the Scotland and Italy tests. Only his 1st and 2nd cap.


I think it comes down the fact that as England fans have such high expectations.

We don't just expect England to win. We expect them to do this playing free-flowing scoring tries, completely blowing away the opposition etc. It happens occasionally e.g. vs Australia (2010), vs Italy (2011), Ireland (2008).

We must take into account all those strong results were at home.

Also we are too guilty at writing off players. We are so judgemental and scathing in our assessments.

It's different at U20s England are head and shoulders above the other 6 nations countries for whatever reason.

I think in the next few years England's dominance in the U20s should reap dividends. Though then again which player do you back to become world class?

"I think it comes down the fact that as England fans have such high expectations."

I just want a 12 with some ability to to run the ball, Farrell does not possess this. I'm really not a fan of his if you can tell...

In the Scotland and Italy games who would you have picked at 12 and 13?

Remember Trinder and Tuilagi were injured. I think Joseph was too.

Yes I can tell you're not a fan.

I like Barritt though, he'd be my 12 going forward. I'd have possibly went Banahan(safe option) or brought May up to train with first team to see how he performed.

I'd have stuck Farrell in Saxons as a 10 or maybe put him on brew duties for the management. Think Asda are after shelf stackers so he could have made himself useful there?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I like Barritt though, he'd be my 12 going forward. I'd have possibly went Banahan(safe option) or brought May up to train with first team to see how he performed.

I'd have stuck Farrell in Saxons as a 10 or maybe put him on brew duties for the management. Think Asda are after shelf stackers so he could have made himself useful there?

Funny how one word can lose you an argument isn't it.

Saracens play dull because the game plan works. They generally win.

It is better to win ugly than lose pretty. The signing of Hodgson has certainly changed Sarries somewhat, no longer is it only 12 crash or big kick from the 10 there's more happening in that backline now. The change was very noticeable against the Ospreys in the HEC where Sarries really did vary the attack but retained control of the tempo.

I like Barritt though, he'd be my 12 going forward. I'd have possibly went Banahan(safe option) or brought May up to train with first team to see how he performed.

Hmm not sure I agree with the selections there, Banahan is not international quality and May is a little fragile in defence for an international centre. There were certainly options available to the England management that would have offered more ball in hand from the centres: Hipkiss, Twelvetrees, Allen, Fitzpatrick, Hooper, Waldouck or Daly. Whether they would have been able to step up or play the defensive style England have gone with (Hopper certainly wouldn't have) is another matter entirely.

Agree with that Hammer of Thunor

Sgt Pooly Tindall of all people is keeping May out of the 13 shirt at Gloucester at the moment. May hasn't got enough club experience at 13, he's a 15 currently.
Talented player but needs more game time.

Banahan....

How about a recall for Tindall?

You do puzzle me.

Banahan has his uses at centre if used correctly. May plays at 15/wing to cover for injuries. I'd prefer Tindall to Farrell tbh, Farrell overs nothing

If everyone was fit I'd have had Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres with Farrell on the bench (Flood starting). I'm kind of hoping for this against Wales (depending on Tuilagi and Flood's come backs). With the injuries we've had I think the best choice was made (based on possibilities and the use of club combinations in a 'new' side).

Banahan certainly gives the opposition to run round. He's way way down my list (even further than Doran-Jones was for his first cap - incase you can't remember there were about 8 tightheads injured)

Exactly Sam - win ugly is better than lose pretty as I know from the 2010 and 2011 GP and AP finals. Agree there other options but would they have been any better?

Sgt Pooly you're funny. Banahan's limitations as a centre were ruthlessly exposed by Ireland. Did you watch Tindall at 13 vs Northampton recently? He was awful. Only things he did were errors and basically being too slow.

HammerofThunor I agree with you.

Take out goal kicking, what does Farrell offer?

Solid defence, good kicking out of hand, better passing game than most centres

The issue being he doesn't use the passing game to any effect, if he was taking the ball and creating some thing with some clever hands or running a set move off of 12 then it would be different. Irritatingly all he does is shuffle it along the line, there's no attacking the gainline and looking to put players in gaps or offloads it's League style sling it down the line.