best u20 players in each position british and irish only

who do you think are best u20 players coming through and what would your u20 lions style look like?

As in players who qualify for u20s or actually in this years 6N squads? from ones who qualify mine would be...
slightly biased though
15 - Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Scotland)
14 - Harry Robinson (Wales)
13 - JJ Hanrahan (Ireland)
12 - Cory Allen (Wales)
11 - Marland Yarde (England)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Ireland)
9 - Jonny Evans (Wales)
8 - Jamie Swanson (Scotland)
7 - Aarron Coneely (Ireland)
6 - Ellis Jenkins (Wales)
5 - Jonny Gray (Scotland)
4 - Iain Henderson (Ireland)
3 - Alex Allan (Scotland)
2 - Kirby Myhill (Wales)
1 - Rob Evans (Wales)

No room for George North?

AlynDavies wrote:No room for George North?

oh Poopie yeah hes 19 ent he? :L keep forgetting that
he can take Marland's place then

Considering Englands Complete dominance at this age group i find it hard to believe that you truly think that Yarde and Ford would make the cut

England do dominate at this level so would take many slots (the mystery is how they fail to progress them to senior players). Open side flanker for Wales caught my eye in the game against Scotland - looked v useful. Plus if we are allowing George North, can we have Stuart Hogg too?

Who exactly has failed to progress. The only failure I can think about is Hugo Ellis who failed to progress at Wasps after captaining England U20.

Yes have to say the current england U20 squad would probably smash the one listed above

Be a good game to watch though

Hammer I think he means that England are consistently the best 6N team at u20 and first or second in the world (NZ the only other challenger) at this age group, but then do not go on to dominate the world at senior level like new Zealand do (apart from in 2003)

But we've only been strong for the last 4 years. The oldest of these players are now 24.

Absolutely, the myth that won't die. Even the 2008 side, which did reach the JWC final, was nothing like as good as the 2009, 2011 and 2012 sides. Many of this year's u20 side are regularly involved with their clubs already - that wasn't the case for previous sides.

No North or Hogg

Anthony Watson of England is one to look out for

Does Manu Tuilagi technically still qualify for the U-20's? Also, not sure how the IRB Young Player of the Year doesn't make that team

Its obviously u20 players that are playing now.
George Ford is unavailable because hes playing for Leicester

HammerofThunor wrote:But we've only been strong for the last 4 years. The oldest of these players are now 24.

Thunor, I meant what Griff clarified (thanks, Griff) - is it really only the last 4 years? I seem to recall that you've been dominant at U20 for decades? Perhaps my memory is playing me tricks? (and I'm including U21 & U19 pre-2008 in that - 3rd/4th playoffs in those tournaments in 04/05/06 and competing with the SH?)

I have huge expectations of Hanrahan, he is going to be a part of Irelands squad next year for sure

gowales wrote:Its obviously u20 players that are playing now.
George Ford is unavailable because hes playing for Leicester

Yet the OP went back on themself when George North was brought up?

LiziDragons wrote:As in players who qualify for u20s or actually in this years 6N squads? from ones who qualify mine would be...
slightly biased though
15 - Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Scotland)
14 - Harry Robinson (Wales)
13 - JJ Hanrahan (Ireland)
12 - Cory Allen (Wales)
11 - Marland Yarde (England)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Ireland)
9 - Jonny Evans (Wales)
8 - Jamie Swanson (Scotland)
7 - Aarron Coneely (Ireland)
6 - Ellis Jenkins (Wales)
5 - Jonny Gray (Scotland)
4 - Iain Henderson (Ireland)
3 - Alex Allan (Scotland)
2 - Kirby Myhill (Wales)
1 - Rob Evans (Wales)

Given the Welsh performance against Ireland your nationality is showing.
Wales with the exception of a couple of passable forwards were awful

I'm not sure what the position is in the other countries but Wales have left out 9 or 10 players who are getting regular regional action. The plan is to increase the depth of the squad and bring them back for the U20 World Cup. I don't think any of the other 6 nations sides can cope with the power of England at this level. The reason why it hasn't pushed through to the senior side in my opinion is that they are so much more powerful at U20 level they can bully sides but when it comes to the senior game it's a lot more difficult to do that.

Ecilpse that happens in Ireland too

Lizidragons is obviously a WUM.

It's like having a world XV and not including any South Africans,Australians or New Zealanders!

George Ford was voted young player of the year and is still only 18, therefor was playing at a year or 2 younger than most at this level.
He must surely take the no 10 spot?

look at the reports at the last JWC & you would probably include many more English if being fair minded..

Since U20 started we've lost 2 games in the U20 6 nations (out of 20) and got to 3(?) JWC finals (losing them all to the BB). In the four years before that we had 13 wins out of 20 for the U21 6 nations. Not the weakest but certainly not dominant (about the same record as the full international side in the last 4 years [12 wins out of 20])

HammerofThunor wrote:Since U20 started we've lost 2 games in the U20 6 nations (out of 20) and got to 3(?) JWC finals (losing them all to the BB). In the four years before that we had 13 wins out of 20 for the U21 6 nations. Not the weakest but certainly not dominant (about the same record as the full international side in the last 4 years [12 wins out of 20])

Thunor, thanks, I stand corrected (even tho it totally blows one of my pet theories out of the water!!!) Any idea what U19 stats would be?

No. I just googled U21 and U20 6 nations and looked at past tables.

U21 England came, 1st, 4th, 1st (GS) - I think this was [Croft, Haskell, etc], 3rd (I think)
U20 England 1st (GS), 1st, 2nd, 1st (GS)

killer938 wrote:Does Manu Tuilagi technically still qualify for the U-20's? Also, not sure how the IRB Young Player of the Year doesn't make that team

im biased ok?

geoff998rugby wrote:

LiziDragons wrote:As in players who qualify for u20s or actually in this years 6N squads? from ones who qualify mine would be...
slightly biased though
15 - Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (Scotland)
14 - Harry Robinson (Wales)
13 - JJ Hanrahan (Ireland)
12 - Cory Allen (Wales)
11 - Marland Yarde (England)
10 - Paddy Jackson (Ireland)
9 - Jonny Evans (Wales)
8 - Jamie Swanson (Scotland)
7 - Aarron Coneely (Ireland)
6 - Ellis Jenkins (Wales)
5 - Jonny Gray (Scotland)
4 - Iain Henderson (Ireland)
3 - Alex Allan (Scotland)
2 - Kirby Myhill (Wales)
1 - Rob Evans (Wales)

Given the Welsh performance against Ireland your nationality is showing.
Wales with the exception of a couple of passable forwards were awful

i did warn that i was bias!

if i wasnt - id have picked Ford
although ive picked looking at who i think will progress to be senior internationals (in most cases while trying to remember which of the players ive seen play more than once)

I illustrate just one position - any one who has seem McGrath knows he is the best 9 in this age group by a country mile

Geoff - does McGrath look like a better player than Murray? Does he have more potential/talent?

From what I have seen he could, I say could, be the best Irish scrum half since before you were born...

Like all youngsters though we will have to see how he develops. Some kick on some don't

Interesting. So he is one of those players that immediately catch your eye? I look forward to seeing more of him! Also hope Hendy keeps on putting in big performances, and gets a full contract for Ulster.

I think he (Henderson) will get a development contract next year.

McGrath has a pass that in pace makes you look again - very exciting

geoff998rugby wrote:I illustrate just one position - any one who has seem McGrath knows he is the best 9 in this age group by a country mile

I doubt that.Ben Spencer's the best. Ben Spencer has already played for the England Saxons. Scored a try against the Wolfhounds too.

He's played in the HC for the English champs this season doing the double over the O's,scoring a try against Biarritz (outplaying Yachvilli too), plus beating Treviso twice.

Have you seen McGrath beshocked? Sounds like you are just saying Spencer is better without actually knowing who McGrath is.

No rory gallagher. I haven't.What has McGrath done of note?

Please educate me.

Just answering your - "anyone who has seen McGrath knows he's the best 9 in his age group by a country mile".

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Have you seen McGrath beshocked? Sounds like you are just saying Spencer is better without actually knowing who McGrath is.

Not having seen him we can only ask what's McGrath's record in the Heineken cup?

That said, it's about time Ireland got a decent scrum half.

beshocked wrote:No rory gallagher. I haven't.What has McGrath done of note?

Please educate me.

Just answering your - "anyone who has seen McGrath knows he's the best 9 in his age group by a country mile".

It wasn't even me who said that though

I haven't seen McGrath either. I just think it is silly to say "oh no this guys better because he has done this" when you haven't seen the other options.

geoff998rugby wrote:I illustrate just one position - any one who has seem McGrath knows he is the best 9 in this age group by a country mile

+1 Geoff

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

beshocked wrote:No rory gallagher. I haven't.What has McGrath done of note?

Please educate me.

Just answering your - "anyone who has seen McGrath knows he's the best 9 in his age group by a country mile".

It wasn't even me who said that though

I haven't seen McGrath either. I just think it is silly to say "oh no this guys better because he has done this" when you haven't seen the other options.

Well I think it's silly to say "anyone who has seen McGrath knows he's the best 9 in his age group by a country mile".

Certainly when in this age group there is Ben Spencer who has not looked out of place in the Heineken Cup (a competition a level or two above U20s).

Maybe this McGrath is the coming messiah for Irish scrum halves. Maybe he blows opposition away with grace and power but until he plays at the same level as as one of his rivals, no one can claim he is country mile's ahead of all 9s in his age group.

For all we know (which is nothing) he might look good at a lower level.

Why is it silly when you haven't even seen him play?

Your argument is all opinion.
The facts say Spencer is better because hes gone from playing with a division 1 side (Cambridge) to premiership and now England Saxons.

We'll se if this McGrath guy lives up to his hype in the next few years.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Why is it silly when you haven't even seen him play?

It's an idle boast with nothing to back it up. He has done nothing of note to say he's the best 9 by a country mile in his age group out of all 9s in the world. If he had some of us might have heard of him.

You can make wild claims but till he faces a decent HC opponent he is unproven in my eyes.

Thank you go wales.

Maybe McGrath is better but do you expect me to say:"yes you are absolutely right, your word is of course gospel".

There are a few players who are the best in their position by a country mile at U19/U20, who then come to not much. Most of them are English.

Speaking of which, Cipriani played really well this weekend in a Rebels warm-up match.

To be clear I was only considering players playing for the U20 teams not others. As such Spencer was not in my consideration.

The top posts don't make entirely clear which it is.

Having said that English players tend to make the breakthrough earlier than Irish players. Whilst this clearly gives them a head start in terms of experience it does not, in the long term, make them better players.

geoff998rugby wrote:To be clear I was only considering players playing for the U20 teams not others. As such Spencer was not in my consideration.

The top posts don't make entirely clear which it is.

Having said that English players tend to make the breakthrough earlier than Irish players. Whilst this clearly gives them a head start in terms of experience it does not, in the long term, make them better players.

Oh ok I apologise.

The way I saw it, this includes those players who are U20 so potentially you could have tom prydie and george north on the wings.

True alex germany. The English players seem to be imperious at U20s but find the step up harder. They normally sparkle at the beginning but fade into mediocrity. E.g. Youngs,Care,Cipriani, Tait - all bright starts and prospects but all have floundered.

Even the likes of Cato,Mercey and Gray who you would think would push on haven't.

The likes of JSD,Morgan,Abendanon never seem to have got those opportunities at international level.

E.g. the Welsh seem to love throwing youngsters into the international cauldron at any opportunity. Like North,Halfpenny,Faletau,Prydie etc.

I've heard so much hype about Luke McGrath. He must at least have obvious potential to be a special player.

He's captained the Ireland under 18's and the Leinster under 18's and under 20's. So he must have good leadership abilities. He scores tries. He kicks goals too. It would seem he has it all. He's in the Leinster academy now.

It's impossible to say for sure if he'll make it as a pro for now. But if he lives up to the considerable hype I've heard he'll be a great player in the future.

Sometimes you watch a kid and you immediately sit up and take a second look - he is one of those.

Sounds like Ben Youngs.

There's better youngsters playing in England than Ben Spencer tbh never mind the rest of the BI&I. Spencer looks ok playing behind a dominant pack and box kicking to his hearts content but offers nothing around the fringes.