ROG asked to delay retirement plans

by Cari Sun 18 Sep 2011, 11:23 am

First topic message reminder :

From RTÉ:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup/2011/0918/ireland_ogara.html

Ireland will seek to persuade Ronan O'Gara to shelve any retirement plans after the fly-half hinted the World Cup will be his Test swansong. An emotional O'Gara indicated in the aftermath of yesterday's magnificent 15-6 victory over Australia that his 11-year international career was almost over.

"It's massive, this is it for us. I'm done with Ireland in a few weeks," he told RTÉ Sport. "I've had a great time in this jersey but I want this to be the biggest time. It's a great team, a great bunch of lads and it means a lot to us."

Team manager Paul McNaughton revealed an effort would be made to convince O'Gara, who kicked two crucial penalties at Eden Park, to continue playing for Ireland. "Ronan hasn't talked formally to us about it. There's no doubt he still has something to offer the team after the World Cup," said McNaughton.

"He's contracted for the next couple of years. Undoubtedly (coach) Declan Kidney and the management will be encouraging him to stay on. "He's a very, very important part of the set-up here."

O'Gara has kicked 1,039 points for Ireland during his 113-cap career, but has slipped to second place in the fly-half pecking order behind Jonathan Sexton. The 34-year-old, who made his debut in 2000 and has been on three Lions tours, could yet reclaim the number 10 jersey given Sexton's unconvincing performances against the USA and Australia so far this month.

What do fans think? Should he carry on for a little while yet? My personal view is,unless he no longer enjoys playing or isn't fit to do so, I think he could continue for another year with Ireland.

by welshy824 Mon 19 Sep 2011, 11:35 pm

i think it will be a shame but its like with shane for wales i guess you have to accept it now, its his choice after all and as shane said he would rather end his career on a high than be losing his place like martyn williams.

talking about shane i think he will be a massive loss to wales although i do think halfpenny and north are very capable and shane has been as amazing as he once was (still a class player) and i certainly think the ospreys or wales should keep hold of him. if he is at the O's i would get him to guide matthew morgan with tackling etc as considerin shane's size he doesnt do a too bad a job in defence.

but back on track these players are once in a generation, shane, ROG, BOD, CONNEL, SJ(?), MW all retiring and its time for the new generation to step up. in 10 years time you will be saying i remember back in the day BOD... and this player has a hint of him in his play

by Pot Hale Mon 19 Sep 2011, 11:45 pm

On this topic, I think the following article is very instructive on the attitude of the Irish management to O'Gara's announcements, and their decision to look at a continuation of the 10/12 axis with O'Gara and Sexton.

Gaffney talks quite freely about the situation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/sep/19/ronan-ogara-retire-ireland-jonny-sexton

by Gibson Mon 19 Sep 2011, 11:47 pm

I think it was an emotional outburst which will be retracted after we win the World Cup(sic). Things will be different when he gets home. He has 2 good years left in him at the top. I hope he stays on.We need him to be around to play and to coax Sexton, never mind Keatley.

Just hope he is mature enough now, not to throw his toys out of the pram.

by **rodders** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 9:08 am

Absolutely ROG is good enough to play on at the top. He has made a massive contribution to the RWC so far, in fact he is arguably more influential coming of the bench.

Thats whats so frustrating about this, everything is starting to come together and then ROG comes out with this. It's not the 1st time he's said stupid things when he gets emotional but this isn't the time or place.

I've no doubt he will back track but I hope Kidney is strong enough to not let this deviate from the plan he has for the RWC. He can't allow sentiment to influence his selection or concern himself with appeasing ROG at the expense of the team.

We are 2 from 2 with Sexton and Reddan starting and ROG and Murray coming of the bench for impact and I think it would be a massive error to deviate from that now.

by Sin é Tue 20 Sep 2011, 9:43 am

roddersm wrote:Absolutely ROG is good enough to play on at the top. He has made a massive contribution to the RWC so far, in fact he is arguably more influential coming of the bench.

Thats whats so frustrating about this, everything is starting to come together and then ROG comes out with this. It's not the 1st time he's said stupid things when he gets emotional but this isn't the time or place.

I've no doubt he will back track but I hope Kidney is strong enough to not let this deviate from the plan he has for the RWC. He can't allow sentiment to influence his selection or concern himself with appeasing ROG at the expense of the team.

We are 2 from 2 with Sexton and Reddan starting and ROG and Murray coming of the bench for impact and I think it would be a massive error to deviate from that now.

Get a grip Rods ... Very Happy

(2) Peter Stringer 98 caps ; Anthony Foley - not even a spot on the Heineken Cup Final bench despite being involved in nearly all the games up to then and about to retire Very Happy

Kidney will do whats right for the team and ROG will go along with that. After the world cup, ROG will do what is right for himself and his family. Everyone should be happy with that.

I disagree with your point about deviating - you need to keep people on their toes and freshen things up a bit - otherwise you become too predictable.

by BlueMuff Tue 20 Sep 2011, 10:43 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:I've no doubt that ROG would give Ireland a dig out if there was an injury problem. Just don't expect him to spend weeks in camp away from his family just to warm the pine. That would be soul destroying.

There's plenty of players who would walk barefoot over broken glass to "warm the pine" for their country. If ROG isn't prepared to then he doesn't deserve to wear the green jersey again. Paddy Wallace for example has sat on the bench and spent weeks in camp for years without ever complaining. If ROG doesn't want to be a team player then good riddance and to just come out with this two games in to the tournament and announce it in public without discussing it with the coaches is very unprofessional and shows a blatant disregard for his teammates.

This is outrageous - you are getting more bitter by the day. ROG does not owe Ireland anything especially not the likes of you

by **rodders** Tue 20 Sep 2011, 10:53 am

BlueMuff wrote:
This is outrageous - you are getting more bitter by the day. ROG does not owe Ireland anything especially not the likes of you

No you've got it wrong. It's Ireland and Kidney that owe ROG nothing, not vice-versa. Playing for your country in any capacity is the highest honour you can recieve.

If you are suggesting that ROG doesn't owe his coach, employer and teammates the courtesy of more than a few weeks notice of his impending retirement then you need to get a grip.

by Cari Tue 20 Sep 2011, 11:00 am

To be fair, no one owes anybody anything. Yes it is an honour to be chosen to play for your country, and one which ROG has earned well in his time and paid them back for in terms of points he's scored for them. Likewise, he's had the kudos of having such an illustrious international career, but if he decides his time has come to an end, then that's entirely up to him. Hence the management are trying to persuade him to reconsider that's all.

by Gibson Tue 20 Sep 2011, 3:48 pm

He should have said nowt though - until after the RWC. I think even he knows that now. Its not the Irish Way. But he was emotional and always shoots from the hip. Its what I like about the man. No BS.

Anyway stop phhokin arguing ye lot! We are on our way lads!
Feicin Paddies will argue about two flies going up a wall.

music

Shoulder... to shooo-ooool... der... We'll Answer Irelaands Caaal. music

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:32 am

Was interviewed by Michael Corcoran on Morning Ireland this morning. He clarified that what was said was misinterpreted - all rugby players consider the world cup to be a time to finish when you are coming up to retirement. Says he will reassess after world cup, though it sounds as if he will continue on.

Michael Corcoran brought up Ireland's qualification trip to Siberia for the 2003 world cup and Ronan replied 'I'm surprised you remember that after the bottle of vodka'. Very Happy

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:40 am

Sin é wrote:Was interviewed by Michael Corcoran on Morning Ireland this morning. He clarified that what was said was misinterpreted - all rugby players consider the world cup to be a time to finish when you are coming up to retirement. Says he will reassess after world cup, though it sounds as if he will continue on.

Michael Corcoran brought up Ireland's qualification trip to Siberia for the 2003 world cup and Ronan replied 'I'm surprised you remember that after the bottle of vodka'.

Happy days! ROG is playing as well as ever and has at least another season or two at this level. Lets hope he can channel this emotions into the rest of the tournament Very Happy

by Mickado Wed 21 Sep 2011, 2:20 pm

Brendan Fanning's take on this is interesting:

GUBU would be an inaccurate description, for it was neither Grotesque nor Unbelievable, but certainly it was Bizarre and Unprecedented. We’re talking about the press conference earlier today NZ time when Ronan O’Gara was rolled out to face the media. Just to give it an air of normality, Rob Kearney was sent out with him.

So off went O’Gara with an explanation of why he said, in the aftermath of Saturday night’s win over Australia, that his Ireland gig would all be over in a few weeks. I was gobsmacked when a colleague relayed the line to me at the time. We agreed that this was a case of: ‘All right lads, that’s enough about Ireland, let’s talk about me!”

When his comments were put to manager Paul McNaughton the next day his response sounded like he hadn’t a rashers what was going on, and he reminded us – and indeed O’Gara – that the outhalf had the small matter of two seasons to run on his contract.

McNaughton picked up on exactly what was unfolding: this was O’Gara ratcheting up the pressure on Declan Kidney to pick him ahead of Jonny Sexton. O’Gara’s relationship with Kidney has past its best point. Maybe he felt this was the quickest line of communication. As coach Kidney has to keep him happy, for O’Gara is a hugely important member of the squad, but while Kidney feels a chill down his spine when he has to make a decision, he is also stubborn. And O’Gara’s quasi emotional plea would have been wasted on the coach.

So was O’Gara selfish to do it? Yes, of course he was. That’s the way he is. I wouldn’t claim to be close to him but having dealt with him a fair bit over the last 13 years there are two things I understand about him: he has an insatiable appetite for success; and while his physical limitations as a rugby player are obvious, he has extraordinary mental toughness. In fact he needs to put himself into a corner in order to get the best out of himself.

Oh, there is one other thing about him: he is utterly single-minded about guarding his patch. Hence his comments on Saturday night. From the moment Jonny Sexton made his near perfect debut against Fiji on a miserably wet night in the RDS in November 2009 O’Gara has been on red alert. Having seen off David Humphreys after the 2003 World Cup he has been driven solely by his own desire to get better, not to keep someone else from the job. There was no one else. Now there is. Worse still, that someone has edged him out. And the clock is ticking.

So Ronan O’Gara to retire prematurely? He will have to be dragged off the premises and the locks changed.

Meanwhile, he was sent forth today – this was the management telling him to get out front and make some positive noises – to take one for the team. You’ll read his attempts to put those after match comments in some other, grander context, and he’d have been as well off digging a hole and getting into it. It was gibberish, and his demeanour suggested that he knew everyone in the room recognised it as well.

I don’t think this has done any damage to anyone. Jonny Sexton is having a rough time of it at the minute but he should be flattered that O’Gara is so exercised about getting his place back. Sexton is not short on bottle, but he needs to block out O’Gara and get himself back on track. And O’Gara needs to continue being a selfish, single minded competitor in order to make every minute count.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:39 pm

To be honest, having read Fannings account I would have to say- if that is true!- O'Gara probably needs a bit of a slap on the wrist. It's not exactly being a team player. You don't go out and try and use the media to force your way into the team. There are a few other guys who haven't played so far and I haven't heard this from them.

On the other hand, Fanning could be talking out of his hairy hole and O'Gara just made a slip in the emotion of the moment. The fact he has signed a central contract to play for Ireland until 2013 surely indicates that he wasn't planning to give up the shirt just yet though?

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:51 pm

Cough..cough, I said the same thing Fanning did on Sunday and got a bit of a slating. Now all of a sudden Fanning says the same the theory holds weight! Whistle

I was so furious with ROG last weekend that I'd have happily seen him booted out of the RWC squad for his shenanigans, but alas time is great healer.....

If he pulls a stunt like that again he should be on the first plane back to Cork though!

by Feckless Rogue Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:52 pm

If I was Sexton I'd be desperately trying to get my goal kicking right. If ROG gets back in it won't be because of anything he says to the media. It'll be because Sexton is missing kicks.

by Thomond Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:54 pm

Sexton should try and be motivated by the comments. ROG wants to start for Ireland,if he wants to hold his place Sexton must perfom. That's a big incentive.

by **Notch** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 3:58 pm

The thing is rodders, Fanning as a journalist rubs shoulders with the coaches and players whereas we- as the great unwashed fans of Irish Rugby- do not. So we might expect Fanning or Thornley to have some genuine insight into what's going on whereas a poster on an internet forum will often resort to unfounded speculation.

Hence they are capable of reaching the same conclusions but being treated entirely differently!

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:03 pm

Too true Notch thats why I don't believe anything until George Hook confirms it 1st!

by Feckless Rogue Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:23 pm

roddersm wrote:Too true Notch thats why I don't believe anything until George Hook confirms it 1st!

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 4:41 pm

Fanning is at best tolerated by Kidney & Co. He did a hatchet job on Kidney (and a few others) some while back when EOS was in charge. Ever notice that he never gets in depth interviews with any of the players? The best he can do is get a few words at a press conference.

Anyone who thinks (or promotes the idea) that Ronan O'Gara would try and blackmail Kidney into starting him are clueless. ROG knows Kidney far too well to know that would not succeed. This is the man who dropped Anthony Foley (his former captain) for a Heineken Cup final even though Foley was retiring. He could have squeezed him into the 22, but he put Keith Earls on the bench (who had been playing AIL rugby) so that he would have the experience of a big match day.

by BlueMuff Wed 21 Sep 2011, 5:24 pm

This is some of the actual quotes. Nothing wrong with what he said. Rodders you can be furious all you want with him it just shows the type of supporter you really are. READ HIS ACTUAL COMMENTS

Ronan O'Gara insists he has no intention of retiring from Test rugby after the World Cup, declaring only "losers" walk away when confronted by a challenge.

The Ireland fly-half suggested in a television interview after Saturday's stunning 15-6 victory over Australia that his 11-year international career was almost over.

"I'm done with Ireland in a few weeks. I've had a great time in this jersey but I want this to be the biggest time," he told RTÉ Sport.

O'Gara today clarified his comments by stating that he was referring to the end of the World Cup and not his own position.

The 34-year-old - the oldest member of the squad - has lost his place as first choice fly-half to Leinster's Jonathan Sexton.

"Retirement has crossed my mind plenty of times over the last few years," he said.

"There are plenty of thoughts in your head when you're disappointed but it's losers who quit when things aren't going so well for them.

"Retirement hasn't entered my head seriously in that regard. I'm a fighter and I'll keep fighting until the end.

"I'm not sure when that is. Playing for Ireland means so much you don't walk away from the team until it's right.

"You take advice from people you respect on that front. I'm not at that stage yet."

O'Gara is adamant the meaning of his words during the interview were misinterpreted.

"On Saturday I was speaking in the context of being done with Ireland in six or seven weeks' time in terms of this World Cup," he said.

"I said I'm done with Ireland in a few weeks and there are different interpretations of that.

"It was a great night, one of my best nights. I was so proud to be part of the team.

"From my point of view, when you set goals as a professional player everything ends with the World Cup final.

"That's where I stand at the minute. It's important for me to put an end to this because it's a distraction the team don't need.

"In my own head I'll reassess at the end of the World Cup. But I want to be part of this team because it's a great team at the moment.

"It's about being part of an Ireland team that will do itself justice in the competition and give the supporters at home something they deserve."

O'Gara has kicked 1,039 points for Ireland during his 113-cap career

He made his debut in 2000 and has been on three Lions tours, and could yet reclaim the number 10 jersey given Sexton's unconvincing performances against the United States and Australia so far this month.

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:23 pm

BlueMuff wrote:Rodders you can be furious all you want with him it just shows the type of supporter you really are.

I'm an Ireland supporter not an O'Gara (or any other player for that matter) supporter. I know exactly what he meant in his RTE interview and the fact that he has subsequently backtracked does not change the disruption he caused, disruption he has admitted he caused, in the middle of maybe the most pivotal month in Irish rugby history.

No player is bigger than the team and if ROG or any other player thinks they are then they need to be sent packing no metter how many caps they have or points they've scored.

Rugby is a team game and there's no place for self centred, prima donna's who want to put their own interests before the team's. Hopefully Kidney has put ROG in his place behind closed doors and he'll now knuckle down and focus on delivering for the team as has always done.

by Gibson Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:38 pm

I actually like it that ROG is pushing, nay - demanding, his spot back. Look what its done for us. The Irish Way is to be humble, big up the opposition and put ourselves down.Well, where has that ever got us in sport eh? We need that inner-confidence to drag us to places we've never been before. Like a SF, or God Forbid - a Final.

I love his cockiness. Sexton is the same, only behind behind the scenes and on the field. Never shuts up and screams out orders to his more experienced peers. And they respect him for that.Only he doesn't have the experience yet, to speak his mind publicly. ROG is a leader, vastly experienced, very intelligent and may be playing mind-games. Upping the ante between him and Sexton. He said that he will not move from HIS spot and that JS can go to 12. Because HE wont. All good. I hope they play the 2 of em v Italy. They give us options we've never had and can really mix it up between them. We need that edge.

Phhok it. Gowan ROG! Stir it up for Ireland man! Ligind.

by Feckless Rogue Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:44 pm

I wish O'Gara didn't come out with that unnecessary comment about his future. But in his defence, he was clearly very emotional at the time of the interview, so I really don't think it was a calculated move at all.

Maybe he is a self centred prima donna. But sometimes you need those types. Alex Ferguson is famous for sending very good players packing if they're disruptive. But he always put up with Cantona. Keane was defended for years until his performances weren't good enough to put up with his disruptive media outbursts. Then he was gone.

If Ireland need a drop goal to win a knockout cup match, there's nobody I'd rather have standing in the pocket than ROG; with ice running through his veins, relishing the moment he gets the ball and pops it over. Kidney knows this. ROG has been sent to the media to back track on what he's said. It's done and dusted now. Talking about sending him packing is way over the top.

Anyway he wouldn't be ROG if he didn't give the papers some little "controversy" to fill up a few articles.

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:45 pm

Gibson I hate to point out that the last time we started bigging ourselves up we crashed out of the WC at the group stages.... Whistle

Feckless I thought about the Keane comparison but for me any controversy Keane ever caused was for, at least in his mind, the good of the team and not to further his own interests. Thats the problem for me. He knows he is backing the IRFU into a tight spot by threatening to retire as they have invested hardly any time in any other 10's on the basis that ROG will be available for another 2 seasons. In my mind it is a very calculated move.

by Gibson Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:54 pm

Not bigging ourselves up Rodders. Having the confidence as individuals and as a unit - to follow through. Subtle, but huge differ. Given the quality players, with the skill sets to compete at the highest level (We have that. We know that now) ... then it is all down to Belief. I know I harp on about it endlessly, but if you don't Believe you have what it takes to beat anyone, then - you won't.

ROG does. In spades. So does Sexton, In fact so do they all now. I really don't care how that manifests itself, as long as it gets this squad rocking and primed as a unit, to beat the best. And Deccie is a past Master at this. He's smiling now. And why shouldn't he be?

Believe

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 6:56 pm

Interesting Les Kiss picks out POC, BOD & ROG as the big influencers in the Ireland dressing room in his recent RuggaMatrix podcast.

Sorry Rods, but I doubt if he will be putting ROG out on the bold step Sad

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:04 pm

roddersm wrote:Gibson I hate to point out that the last time we started bigging ourselves up we crashed out of the WC at the group stages....

Feckless I thought about the Keane comparison but for me any controversy Keane ever caused was for, at least in his mind, the good of the team and not to further his own interests. Thats the problem for me. He knows he is backing the IRFU into a tight spot by threatening to retire as they have invested hardly any time in any other 10's on the basis that ROG will be available for another 2 seasons. In my mind it is a very calculated move.

So, just say ROG got injured and was out for a few months, what would Ireland do?

Thats right. Cope without him.

By the way, I would hope that Keatley is fairly heavily involved in the 6Ns. The lad has more club caps than Sexton has, so he should be fine as a benchwarmer.

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:13 pm

Sin you don't need to convince me how important ROG is to Ireland! Wink

Players have to put the team before themselves though and if it was any other player including BOD or POC, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

We don't want to end up with the player power problems Wales had after they won their 1st grand slam.

Look, it's done now lets just look forward to the rest of the RWC.

Don't worry Gibson I believe sir guinness

and I suspect in 5 games time this well all be forgotten Wink

by **Notch** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:18 pm

Sin é wrote:Interesting Les Kiss picks out POC, BOD & ROG as the big influencers in the Ireland dressing room in his recent RuggaMatrix podcast.

Didn't you forget Rory Best?

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:27 pm

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:Interesting Les Kiss picks out POC, BOD & ROG as the big influencers in the Ireland dressing room in his recent RuggaMatrix podcast.

Didn't you forget Rory Best?

Best on the pitch with POC and the forwards. BOD with the backs and when ROG came on.

He mentioned that POC, BOD & ROG used their experience and influence during the week before the match to get the team's heads in the right place so to speak for the match.

by Gibson Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:31 pm

Best is a born leader of men. On and off the field. And De Fla. And Shane Jennings.Both leaders with plenty to say behind the scenes Don't forget the players who are helping to drive the 22 picked to perform.

Apparently, training is fierce and attricious. Jennings said that he had the bejaysus beaten out of him by POC in training - leading up to the Oz game. They were using him as a Pocock to get ready for the breakdown battle. Jennings laughed "And the feicer didn't even play!" Laugh

The mood coming from the camp is excellent. No holding back and the provincial shoite (unlike on here) has disappeared.

That's all down to Kidney. I was never his biggest fan, but he is a genius at that particular craic. Bonding individuals and having them strain at the leash to get in the 22. It was so obvious last Sat.

More!

by Sin é Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:35 pm

roddersm wrote:Sin you don't need to convince me how important ROG is to Ireland!

Players have to put the team before themselves though and if it was any other player including BOD or POC, I'd be saying the exact same thing.

We don't want to end up with the player power problems Wales had after they won their 1st grand slam.

Look, it's done now lets just look forward to the rest of the RWC.

Don't worry Gibson I believe sir and I suspect in 5 games time this well all be forgotten

Rods, there is no evidence to suggest that ROG has put himself above the team. Roy Keane used to get stick for being too self important, yet some would regard him as being the ultimate team player and I can't think of an ex- United team mate who has anything but respect for him despite he giving them hell.

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:41 pm

Sin é wrote:
Rods, there is no evidence to suggest that ROG has put himself above the team. Roy Keane used to get stick for being too self important, yet some would regard him as being the ultimate team player and I can't think of an ex- United team mate who has anything but respect for him despite he giving them hell.

Sin I've answered the Keane point above. No more about ROG,he's not retiring!

Gibson sounds like everything is going great!...unless you're Shane Jennings that is Wink

... I think we are on the cusp of something special here guys.... Yahoo

by **Notch** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 7:50 pm

There will probably come a time in this World Cup where Ireland need to manufacture a score- 5 or 7 points- from nothing to stay in a game and stay in the competition.

I don't know whether we can do that yet. The team is going to get better of course. So will everyone else as the tournament goes on. So unpredictable.

I literally can't wait for the next game.

by DaDubs1 Wed 21 Sep 2011, 8:12 pm

ROG asked to delay retirement plans.

Signed, the backs of every European club.

by Thomond Wed 21 Sep 2011, 8:44 pm

Roy Keane is one of Ireland's best ever players,only Giigs/Ronaldo has won as many important games for United in the last 20 years as he did.

Dubs,people say ROG is playing now,he ramped his performances for mUnster after the last world cup so beware!

by Gibson Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:33 pm

Ah T,
Please don't compare ROG to Keane. ROG never turned his back on his country in their hour of need. Hes a self-indulging knacker imo. Keane that is. Useless manager of men has proved it since. Brilliant engine, but never a great natural player. When the engine wound-down - he was ineffectual. He was a thug. A bully. ROG is a wee bit more cerebral than Keane. TF. Different beast altogether, imho.

by Thomond Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:38 pm

Gibbo,I didn't make the initial comparison,if you think Keane wasn't a great footballer I suggest you watch the 99 Champions League semi final against Juventus. I don't agree with what Keane but he was standing up for the rights of himself and his teamates. It was only afterwards that other players came out and agreed with him. He stood up against a crowd of shysters and corrupt people only interested in themselves. He helped improve the scenario for the players of today. The FAI is still a horrible organisation but Keano helped improve it.

Man Utd v Juve highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gehzhS6Vzo

by Gibson Wed 21 Sep 2011, 9:53 pm

Ah sorry T, man. Just read back. Just had to make that point. I know he effected changes in the hapless and unprofessional FAI. It was and still is - a running joke.

I admired him for making the point and wanting to see the same standards as there were at Man U. It was his timing that bothered me. Had he played v Spain - we would have won. And who knows where we(says the Clog fan ;-) ) would have ended up? That's all. I'm sure he regrets that inside - on reflection. Or maybe he doesn't.

That game v Juve - was his zenith. I totally agree. He won that game and sacrificed himself for their cause. Also the time he single-handedly psyched Nederland out in the WC group for Japan - at Lansdowne.

He tore into Kluivert in the 1st few mins. After that - they all bottled it. Scared Poopie of him. In NL, at the time, they called him a controlled aggressive - thug. They can talk now after they were thugs at the last WC. Im talkin van Bommel & De Jong here. Maybe Roy is their role-model?

Man, we should take this to the Soccer Section.

by Thomond Wed 21 Sep 2011, 10:00 pm

Roy Keane may have got into a few scrapes and did some stupid things earlier on in is career but towards the 2000s and beyond he certainly wasn't a thug. A hard footballer who occasionally committed stupid fouls, his only thug moment was the Haaland tackle and we all know his somewhat strange reasoning behind it. He is one of my idols and will be a hero to many Irish people for what he acheived and for the way he curbed his off the pitch lifestyle after some indiscretions in his 20s.

by Feckless Rogue Wed 21 Sep 2011, 10:37 pm

He was a brilliant player. When qualifying for the '02 World Cup he was our captain, our top scorer and our best defender. But he was also a thug. And he walked out on his country and his team mates on the biggest stage when they needed him most. I can't understand how people still defend that. He could have stayed if he wanted. He could have went to the press and savaged the FAI and Mick McCarthy after the World Cup.

I was the one who brought up the Keane thing. I wasn't comparing their personalities or abilities or anything. I was just giving an example of keeping an important player despite a possibly disruptive media outburst.

by **rodders** Wed 21 Sep 2011, 11:20 pm

Thomond wrote:Gibbo,I didn't make the initial comparison,if you think Keane wasn't a great footballer I suggest you watch the 99 Champions League semi final against Juventus. I don't agree with what Keane but he was standing up for the rights of himself and his teamates. It was only afterwards that other players came out and agreed with him. He stood up against a crowd of shysters and corrupt people only interested in themselves. He helped improve the scenario for the players of today. The FAI is still a horrible organisation but Keano helped improve it.

Man Utd v Juve highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gehzhS6Vzo

I've no idea what it's got to do with this thread but I'd just like to +1 this. And no I'm not a Man utd fan Wink

by **Notch** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 12:19 am

I think Roy Keane would be one of the greatest ever Irish football players. People forget just how good he was because they over-focus on the 'hardman' side of his game. Here was a hard man who could play some real quality football.

In the all time greatest Ireland XV you might have George Best roaming up front, you might have Liam Brady dictating things with a cultured left foot but you'd damn sure have Roy Keane snapping into tackles in that midfield!

Anyone can be a hard-man, within reason, but very few can be the engine and prime mover of one of the greatest club sides of all time lads.

by Gibson Thu 22 Sep 2011, 12:28 am

Keane. 10-a-penny over the years. Giles was far superior at the same game. Pah!

Brady.. sweet sweet - left foot. But too full of himself- like Keano. Pah!

Paul McGrath and Bestie? Hmmmmmmmmmm. (is there a whhank emoticon on here btw? )

by **Notch** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 12:31 am

Thats a bit different though. You want one that's flying solo.

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 1:21 pm

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/world-cup/irish-news/ireland-puts-orsquogara-onoff-retirement-confusion-behind-them-2884226.html

The above article sort of answers the question raised by Notch(?) the other day about whether retired Internationals count as NIQ's and what would happen to ROG's contract if he retired from Ireland:

"McNaughton refused to comment on what impact any decision not to play for Ireland would have on O'Gara's contract.

"The contracts for all players in Ireland, not just Ronan's, are to play for their province and national side. That's part of the terms," he said."

By the sounds of it then a player can't just decide not to play for Ireland and carry on playing for their province. Thats that then.

by Feckless Rogue Thu 22 Sep 2011, 1:56 pm

That's what I thought. So either he stays in the Ireland squad or he renegotiates a contract? I'm sure they'll respect his wishes if he wants to retire but he couldn't remain on the same contract.

by **rodders** Thu 22 Sep 2011, 2:13 pm

Yes but by the sounds of McNaughton any new contract would likely be regarded as an NIQ since he would not be available for Ireland, which is understandable from an IRFU perspective.

That would obviously mess Munsters plans up as I presuming they have filled their NIQ quota?

by BlueMuff Thu 22 Sep 2011, 2:18 pm

[quote="roddersm"]

Sin é wrote:

Sin I've answered the Keane point above. No more about ROG,he's not retiring!

His is going to retire from International rugby he's just saying not an issue until after the WC.

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