Revised Top 50 ATG Pound for Pound List

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Harry Greb
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Sugar Ray Leonard
6. Benny Leonard
7. Willie Pep
8. Tommy Hearns
9. Pernell Whitaker
10. Lennox Lewis
11. Joe Louis
12. Sam Langford
13. Gene Tunney
14. Ezzard Charles
15. Eder Jofre
16. Stanley Ketchel
17. Jack Johnson
18. Joe Gans
19. Bob Fitzsimmons
20. Roberto Duran
21. Marvin Hagler
22. Jimmy Wilde
23. Ricardo Lopez
24. Archie Moore
25. Barney Ross
26. Tony Canzoneri
27. Oscar De La Hoya
28. Alexis Arguello
29. Aaron Pryor
30. Mickey Walker
31. Sandy Saddler
32. Jake LaMotta
33. Carlos Monzon
34. Larry Holmes
35. George Foreman
36. Julio Cesar Chavez
37. Charley Burley
38. Jim Jeffries
39. Michael Spinks
40. Ted Lewis
41. Jack Dempsey
42. Salvador Sanchez
43. Pancho Villa
44. Jimmy McLarnin
45. Barbados Joe Walcott
46. Carlos Ortiz
47. Jimmy Bivins
48. Joe Frazier
49. Mike McCallum
50. Emile Griffith

I have excluded the current boxers and slightly altered my list.

Hearns it too high for me, terrific fighter but not a top ten guy and certainly does not warrant a place above Langford Fitz or Charles for me. I agree with excluding current fighters though, a career should only be assessed when it is over. However as I struggle to get past a top ten have to admire you for taking on such a task.

Lamotta ahead of Monzon is an interesting one, I think most people would tend to swap them. You have Julio Cesar Chavez in twice.

sittingringside wrote:Lamotta ahead of Monzon is an interesting one, I think most people would tend to swap them. You have Julio Cesar Chavez in twice.

More incorrect than interesting.

Scottrf wrote:

sittingringside wrote:Lamotta ahead of Monzon is an interesting one, I think most people would tend to swap them. You have Julio Cesar Chavez in twice.

More incorrect than interesting.

Not sure Chavez is good enough to feature twice either

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

sittingringside wrote:Lamotta ahead of Monzon is an interesting one, I think most people would tend to swap them. You have Julio Cesar Chavez in twice.

More incorrect than interesting.

Not sure Chavez is good enough to feature twice either

Disagree.

Maybe one of the mentions refers to his son, the pound 4 pound great Julio Cesar Chavez Jr?

Scottrf wrote:

rowley wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

sittingringside wrote:Lamotta ahead of Monzon is an interesting one, I think most people would tend to swap them. You have Julio Cesar Chavez in twice.

More incorrect than interesting.

Not sure Chavez is good enough to feature twice either

Disagree.

Thought I forgot to include the great Chavez which is why I added him again when I was doing a revised list but thanks for pointing out the mistake any suggestions who should be in the top 50????

Hearns, Sweet Pea and Lennox all a bit too high for me, but horses for courses.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Hearns, Sweet Pea and Lennox all a bit too high for me, but horses for courses.

I rated all 3 higher than most people.

The genius of PBF wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Hearns, Sweet Pea and Lennox all a bit too high for me, but horses for courses.

I rated all 3 higher than most people.

Like I say horses for courses. All great fighters - lennox one of my personal top 5 favourites of all time. Pernell might make my p4p top 20, hearns I think you're being generous to as he lost his 2 biggest fights plus a couple of others he shouldn't have such as Barkley, but your list is your list.

I think more people would debate the ordering rather than the names you've got in there, which look pretty solid.

Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Lennox Lewis are rated too high for me. But all power to you for doing a list, I never can.

I'd find places for George Dixon, Packey McFarland and José Napoles. Maybe Terry McGovern and Emile Griffith, also.

Emile Griffith is at 50 Windy.I would reverese Arguello and Pryor,and find a place for Joey Giardello.

So he is, andy. Thanks for pointing it out, and my apologies to PBF.

Atila wrote:Sugar Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns and Lennox Lewis are rated too high for me. But all power to you for doing a list, I never can.

sugar ray too high atila? Surely not! Actually, I agree with you on all counts, especially the list compiling bit which is frankly way too much like hard work

andygf wrote:Emile Griffith is at 50 Windy.I would reverese Arguello and Pryor,and find a place for Joey Giardello.

I edited the list when Windy mentioned Emile so I should have mentioned it on the thread...apologies to everybody for the misunderstanding.

The genius of PBF wrote:

andygf wrote:Emile Griffith is at 50 Windy.I would reverese Arguello and Pryor,and find a place for Joey Giardello.

I edited the list when Windy mentioned Emile so I should have mentioned it on the thread...apologies to everybody for the misunderstanding.

No probs, mate.

You could have gotten away with it, though, since everybody knows I'm three parts senile.

Chavez an dDuran higher personally

How in gods name is La Motta ahead of Monzon? You have a man whos more famous for a movie than his actual career ahead of a top 3 MW? I also think Benny Leonards too far ahead of Duran, De la Hoyas way too high and there are others that are way too high. Lennox Lewis doesnt make it in to my top 10 heavys let alone top 10 P4P. Wouldnt like to see the original list if this is the revised one.

However, fair play for making a list. I'm way too lazy to compile one.

Tunney, Charles, Jofre, Fitzsimmons, Arguello and Duran are far too low, in no shape or form should Hearns be higher than any of them

De La Hoya, LaMotta and Lewis shouldn't be in a top 50 at all

Other than that i'd be here years correcting it

Whitaker above Tunney? As Ghosty has said there's quite a few glaringly illogical placements in the rankings and i haven't got all afternoon highlighting them.

I mean SRL above Pep? Nope.

Interesting list, PBF. Would be here all day if I picked the bones out of all of it, but that's the nature of these lists, I suppose.

I don't see how Chavez can be outside of the top twenty, or at least out of the top twenty-five, much less out of the top thirty-five, as you have him. For instance, how can you justify having the likes of Wilde, De la Hoya and La Motta ahead of him? In terms of achievements he leaves those men eating his dust.

Would add Mike Spinks to the top twenty-five at least, too. Easily a top five man in (probably) boxing's strongest ever division and then being the first 175 lb champion to step up and win the Heavyweight title entitles him to a high placing, in my eyes. Lennox Lewis and Hearns are both far too high for me, but we've had this discussion before, so no point going over old ground I suppose!

Would add that Barney Ross should be higher, though. Borderline top ten for me, at the very least top fifteen.

Chris have you read Douglas Century's book on Ross, only ask as I know you're a massive fan and I read it a couple of months ago.

I would say what I really think of this list but think i'd be joining Roley in the cage if I did

rowley wrote:Chris have you read Douglas Century's book on Ross, only ask as I know you're a massive fan and I read it a couple of months ago.

Not yet Jeff, sadly enough. Have been meaning to get myself a copy, will have to do a.s.a.p. Without giving away too much, is it a thumbs up or thumbs down from you?

Generally down mate, is part of a series on prominent jews or some such and so there are points you will feel you are getting a Jewish history lesson, which is fascinating enough but not exactly what you read a boxing book for. The stuff about his upbringing and life after boxing are well done and pretty in dpeth but this means his career in the ring is zipped through way too quick and for me when you are talking about a guy who fought who Ross fought he deserves better. Is relatively cheap so is probably worth buying but there is a far better biography of Ross yet to be written.

Id have Floyd Mayweather and Pacman midway through the list. Why is DLH so high at 27?? He got beat by Mosley and knocked out by Hopkins. Speaking of Hopkins, where the hell is he in the list?

Back on my horse about how highly rated Lewis is. As far as pound for pound is concerned, Archie Moore has to be higher placed than Lewis. The man fought at middle weight, light heavy and heavy, often times moving between them with only a month to shed or add weight. Yet he had over 200 fights! An absolute one of a kind who should be rated higher.

rowley wrote:Generally down mate, is part of a series on prominent jews or some such and so there are points you will feel you are getting a Jewish history lesson, which is fascinating enough but not exactly what you read a boxing book for. The stuff about his upbringing and life after boxing are well done and pretty in dpeth but this means his career in the ring is zipped through way too quick and for me when you are talking about a guy who fought who Ross fought he deserves better. Is relatively cheap so is probably worth buying but there is a far better biography of Ross yet to be written.

That's a shame, will probably still read it at some stage though, as I'm not aware of too many other publications based on Ross. Have read a shed load of article clippings and mini biographies about him, often centred on his Jewish heritage, how he was pushed to the forefront in order to project a more positive view of the religion, how he served in World War Two and also his drug addiction in later life, which was caused by his medication for his war wounds. Would have liked a quality biography to top it off, based on your review I may have to wait a little longer for that!

27. Oscar De La Hoya? to high 50-75
Lamotta even in top 100 - what has he acheived?

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Roberto Duran
5. Harry Greb
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Benny Leonard
8. Willie Pep
9. Pernell Whitaker
10. Ezzard Charles

I might find a spot for Carmen Basilio