Ian Poulter - All mouth no trousers?

First topic message reminder :

I always like to see fellow Englishmen perform well at all tournaments and not just the Majors. Seeing Westwood come so close at the Masters and Open in 2010 and even the US Open in 2008. That has to be the closest I have seen since the Faldo years. I like watching Donald, Fisher, Rose, Casey, Wilson, Wood all but to name a few. When I watch Poulter I just cringe. I think of all the things he has said in the past. Like saying that when he plays to his potential only he and Tiger would contest titles. Tiger would miss out of the top 5 in this year's Masters, when infact he finished tied for 4th and he finished T27.

He has always talked a good game and seems to fail to deliver so often. At the Ryder Cup in Valhalla in 2008 I thought he was our best player in the Europe team. My question is will he ever deliver the goods at a Major?

Onetoanother wrote:ahhh so you can be a moderator only when you choose to be?

Excellent! Well done you!

Onetoanother wrote:Can i suggest then removing the mod tag and only using it when you are moderating the site/people/trouble etc? Its confusing to have a mod using this type of aggressive childish language (maybe we dont like ****heads) etc...even the stars dont hide the attitude of someone who perhaps isnt best placed to mod others?

Just a thought really. Maybe im expecting too much from mods on this board.

sharrison01 wrote:Navy, surely some your comments apply exactly to Poulter as well with regards to there being more to life than golf?!?

And I would actually say that Clarke has had the sort of career that I would have expected of him - he has just always played his game without worrying too much about reaching the top. Even before his personal problems, it wasn't as if he saw everyone around him start to get fitter and stronger to improve their golf and thought "I'll have some of that."

Again, if Poulter can grab himself a major over the next 5 years or so then he would have a CV to rival Clarke's and would have done that with less basic skill than in Clarke's finger, to quote you. This would be impressive...

Indeed. If you check back you'll see that I quite admire what IJP has achieved but I don't think he has it in him to win a Major unless all the planets fall into line for him for four days. I just don't like his "personality" as it comes across on tw@tter etc.

Diggers wrote:I dont see this as any reason to cut him any slack, he's a big mouthed, tasteless OCD poseur in my book.

Don't hold back. Say what you really mean! Tend to agree....

And then someone will come on here and say next that they don't want their kids to look up to McIlroy because of his comments in the press?!? Poulter has done a lot to make golf a bit more exciting and his clothing a few years back did attract interest to the game. I would say that any young golfers out there could look at Poulter and see that having self belief and the right attitude can go a long way if your game is not naturally up to scratch. Rory is very naturally talented so how do you teach kids that?

JD,
I'm not saying he hasn't "overachieved", just suggesting that there will be tears pretty soon if he doesn't get to grips with his objectives and his schedule.

He may not have underachieved but he's got to be pretty disappointed with his season so far.

I followed him less than a month ago and he played superbly, especially his long game, and was OK but not great with the crowds. If goldwolf was oin here he'd say how much Poults has done for young players, incl Gary Boyd.

But now he's got to figure out some crucial short-term goals and some long-term objectives. That's all I'm saying.

He is like Sam Torrance, to the unedjucated he seems like he must be the top player in the world, won numerous titles and world number one, when infact he is far from it!

Kwini,

that wasnt the part I disagreed with, his career is certainly at a crossroads, and if he isnt careful he will be remembered for drssing badly and claiming he was 2nd only to Tiger Woods!

JDandfries wrote:He is like Sam Torrance, to the unedjucated he seems like he must be the top player in the world, won numerous titles and world number one, when infact he is far from it!

And what a life Sam Torrance has had. I'm sure that if you spent a moment with Poulter away from the image and comments he would be genuinely happy to just be where he is and when he was a four handicapper considering turning pro would have bitten your hand off to be the next Sam Torrance...

Diggers wrote:He has worked hard to get where he is, but Im equally sure plenty of other guys on tour have worked just as hard if not harder.
He is very flash and loves showing off what he has. Thats his right but its my right to find that doing so is lacking in style and class.

Lacking in style and class? You might want to review some of your recent comments on here lately.

I can't imagine anyone biting a hand off to be the next Sam Torrance, I for one was delighted that I didnt have to endure him on the BBC commentary this year.

I have met Poulter, he is very amenable, but his media persona is so false it is untrue, and that is down to him no one else.

JDandfries wrote:I can't imagine anyone biting a hand off to be the next Sam Torrance, I for one was delighted that I didnt have to endure him on the BBC commentary this year.

I have met Poulter, he is very amenable, but his media persona is so false it is untrue, and that is down to him no one else.

But then creating a false media persona is surely a really smart thing to do? It protects your personal life to an extent while keeping your profile high and stops you from becoming a very boring interviewee.

And as for Sam Torrance, I think that there are thousands of coaching pro's out there that had dreams of playing on tour but then went into coaching because they didn't make it. This was the position that Poulter was in and playing like Sam Torrance in trying to fulfil your dreams is surely better than teaching hackers how not to slice it and wishing you had made it?

I am not saying what Poulter has done was not smart, clearly it was smart enough to fool some people.

As for Torrance, I refuse to get into a debate about that man, I am too biased in my hatred for him!

JPX wrote:

Diggers wrote:He has worked hard to get where he is, but Im equally sure plenty of other guys on tour have worked just as hard if not harder.
He is very flash and loves showing off what he has. Thats his right but its my right to find that doing so is lacking in style and class.

Lacking in style and class? You might want to review some of your recent comments on here lately.

Blah blah...

JDandfries wrote:I am not saying what Poulter has done was not smart, clearly it was smart enough to fool some people.

As for Torrance, I refuse to get into a debate about that man, I am too biased in my hatred for him!

I don't get how he can be that hated?!? A few big moments in the Ryder Cup and then captain, never seemed to be too consumed by the game and now making a living in the media. Can understand not liking him for his poor commentary but it's not the worst career...

As I said I am not getting into anything to do with Sam Torrance!

Fair enough, just haven't ever seen anything myself for the hatred towards him that is commonly shown...

If he would keep his mouth shut, then he would be able to treble his fan base, but every time he opens his gob, utter rubbish comes out, and I think he actually believes in what he is saying!!!

I would sum him up as being a good clothes horse but mediocre golfer

I don't agree I'm afraid. The game needs people like Poulter to attract non-golfers into watching/participating/spending money. If it was all about the true golf fans then we would end up with a tour full of Luke Donalds and Lee Westwoods who are sensational to watch hit a golf ball but offer very little else.

An opinion, whether you agree with it or not, is better than having no opinion whatsoever. And he might punch above his weight in golfing terms but is a solid top 50 in the world which places his game far above anyone on here, despite how mediocre you believe it to be...

He's a lot better than top 50, he's been top 25 for a few years now spending a long time much higher than that, and not too many have maintained that sort of level. Not bad for a "mediocre" golfer.

He's certainly not a mediocre matchplay golfer thats for sure. Id be interested to know what his ranking would be without his matchplay results over the past year or so. He has been very average in strokeplay terms recently.

I thought that I'd go for top 50 just to give him some leeway for the next few years. I wish I could be a mediocre golfer.

It is rubbish when a British golfer can attract negative comments regarding his image/persona/comments/golf when we are not exactly blessed with an abundance of talent at the moment.

I suppose, but no more average than a lot of players who don't get the stick he does.
Has he been any worse than Ross Fisher, Justin Rose or Paul Casey lately?

Matchplay is just as valuable as strokeplay, both count towards rankings, so it's a bit pointless to consider what he'd be like without them.

SR, we were discussing how he might do in a major...all of them are of course strokeplay...so I think its fair to ask where he might be ranking wise without his strokeplay results. He might well be struggling to make top 50 and qualify for some of the majors.

Well, we were discussing majors for a while, but not exclusively. He'd certainly still be top 50 without the matchplay.

You don't win 9 strokeplay events if you are rubbish at the format.

Im not so sure, where is Dracula when you need him. We are talking about his WGC win last year and his Volvo win this year, big points for both of those events I believe. He has a shocking record in Europe this year in strokeplay, on 18th and the rest nowhere. One top 10 in the States I think.

If Poulter is the face of mediocrity in the game then there are a hell of a lot of tour pro's that need to do better. Outside of the major winners and the top 10, what players exactly make Poulter's game seem mediocre?

He's not the only person to have had poor years Diggers, I feel you just use your dislike of the guy to beat him. Like I said, Casey, Rose and Fisher are hardly pulling up any trees are they, yet they get off Scot-Free.

Im just stating some facts about his recent record. Ive acknowleged his matchplay excellence and am simply pointing out that his strokeplay game has been very poor this year. I dont see how those particular comments about him can be deemed as harsh ?
I dont think Rose, Casey or Fisher talk themselves up as much as Poulter, so thats probably why they dont get the same grief.

Ok, I'll give you that. But apart from the WGC win, the second place in the Open, the World Matchplay win, the storming Ryder Cup performance, the top 10 finish on the PGA Tour, apart from all that, what have the Romans ever done for us?

Poulter has indeed a reputation for bigging himself up, but I get the impression that it's A) taken out of context like his Golf World Interview was or B) blown out of proportion similar to Murray's "anti" English stance, or C) doesn't do it nearly as regularly as people think.

Some people take things too seriously.

Poulter has been pretty poor lately in Strokeplay I agree, but at the same time I don't recall him talking himself up lately, although I may be wrong.

The point is that I would admit when he won the WGC he was really going to kick on, but apart from a further matchplay event win his game seems to have gone backwards since then.
Id be backing him every time if the majors were played in a matchplay format, but they arent.

Super, further to your point, which is also relevant to Murray, is that once you make one opinionated or controversial comment the media are all over you to get you to make another one.

If Gmac hadn't won the US last year, and he certainly wasn't favourite to win it, his CV would not look very different to Poulter's yet one good week changes everyone's opinions. I've hardly seen him string a good four rounds together recently but that week has evidently made him bullet proof. Players always have good and bad streaks and Poulter is going through a bad one but it's hardly Garcia of a couple of years ago bad.

If you look at the number of Tournaments entered and no of top 25 finishes (not matchplay) then it comes out to be mediocre, and not any better.

I agree with Digger, take his matchplay wins out of his rankings and he would struggle to be in the top 50

It is no good comparing him to Casey, Rose and Fisher, because they don't open their mouths at every opportunity, claim to be things they are not, and are not disrespectful to the game!

It would be interesting to hear princedrac's opinion on the ranking thing. I'm finding it hard to believe that he'd be out of the top 50 if the matchplay results were ignored.

@JD - Casey has been outspoken at times too, but I wonder in what sense you consider Poults to be disrespectful

As posted elsewhere by princedrac, Poulter would be ranked approx 31st in the owgr rankings for 2011 only, much of his points deriving from his match play win in Espana.

That doesn't answer what his overall OGWR position would be though, considering the nice end to 2010 he had.

What would Tiger's ranking be if you just took 2011 alone?

If Poulter's Match Play result were to be discounted completely, he'd be approx 25th in the owgr as at July 18th.

Woods would be about exactly 100th, based on 2011 points alone.

SmithersJones wrote:Ok, I'll give you that. But apart from the WGC win, the second place in the Open, the World Matchplay win, the storming Ryder Cup performance, the top 10 finish on the PGA Tour, apart from all that, what have the Romans ever done for us?

'Brought peace'

Brilliant

It seems strange the comments questioning Poulter are on the day he ran his yearly invitational for Junior golfers. Seems ok to me.

And to the original post critiquing Poulter for his comments on Tiger at Augusta, he was asked a question, answered honestly and in fairness was a reasonable answer given Tigers form before the Masters.

A top 25 player clearly has the ability to win a major.

Diggers wrote:What kids look up to him ? I think they are far more likely to look up to McIlroy than Poulter to be honest, I very mch doubt kids see Poulters image as something to aspire to, his clothing range is rank awful.

I should think every single one of these kids do, and the ones that have attended the previous years he's put this on:

http://europeangolftour.net/european-golf-tourthe-ian-poulter-junior-invitational/

I take it all back, he's clearly a saint and beyond any kind of criticism.

No-one has said that, if you read my first comment I clearly state he needs to tone it down, but the level of criticism you have given him is simply not called for. You asked which kids look up to him, well there's a few there but you still can't cut him any slack can you? You accused him of not having any class (most ironic post I've ever read) earlier, I think what he is doing there is class, don't you?

Posters like you crack me up. You always bleat on about respect for people yet you don't mind getting remotely personal and accusing me of having no class.
If you want to bury your head in his backside because he's a pro golfer which you seem to think means he commands instant respect then go ahead.
What he does for the kids is great, and I'm sure it provides a lot of great photo opportunities for his many sponsors as well.

At least Poulter doesn't spit unlike half the american tour!

Hats off to him. The 'boy done good' for himself. Mind you, I couldn't help having a little titter at a comment in the Times the other day when the columnist wondered if Poulter was being sponsored by the anti-adverb organisation ... "I played nice today".

I can't remember if it was this years Masters or last years when Poults shot a good 1st round and then had an absolute stinker in the second. When I have watched him play, he seems to get really agitated with himself quite early on if he is not playing as well as he can and he just never recover his game. It is interesting to read comments about the 'press' persona and it makes me wonder if he carried just some of it with him during a Major, he could pull one out of the bag.

Diggers wrote:Posters like you crack me up. You always bleat on about respect for people yet you don't mind getting remotely personal and accusing me of having no class.
If you want to bury your head in his backside because he's a pro golfer which you seem to think means he commands instant respect then go ahead.
What he does for the kids is great, and I'm sure it provides a lot of great photo opportunities for his many sponsors as well.

I respect him as he's a talented tour pro, as I do each and every player who is good enough to get on our TV screens. I have in no way got personal with you, just merely pointed out that some of your comments here are lacking in class and strangely aggressive. You asked a question above and I gave you an answer (to which I knew you would be able to find a negative in!). If you don't like being proved wrong that's not my problem.

Course you haven't been personal. So predictable.

If you or anyone else can point out to me where I have got personal with you then I will be more than happy to apologise................

If you can't see it then it's highly unlikely you'd get it. I don't want an apology anymore than I care about you getting personal, you are not the first and I'm sure you won't be the last.