Welsh Squad may have a very youthful look about it...!

Have a read, promising stuff...!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/07/15/warren-gatland-hails-bold-approach-of-young-welsh-world-cup-hopefuls-91466-29056682/

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/07/15/analysis-time-is-right-for-wales-next-generation-of-stars-to-make-their-mark-91466-29056324/

good signs, however the question is, is it too late?

If your good enough your old enough.

Id like to see a younger more exciting Wales.
Though I think Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, and Gethin Jenkins have plenty to offer.

But even though these players are young they shouldn't be going into a WC with either no or little experience - especially when there were plenty of times to replace the none performing senior players over the last year or 2...

agree with above post, however all does look VERY well post world cup!

Smirnoff.
Agree totally.
I'm delighted to see the stand out players of the regions finally proving tat they're the real deal. Just wish gatland had given them more chances. Gatland's persisted with his favourites and hasn't used his time well. He's picked the some faces, whether they're in form or not. We may have well blooded the youngsters earlier. Gatlands record over the last 2 years i's very poor, so I think he may as well have built a team, not try and bring in these players 2 months before a WC.

The warm up games should be all about finalising things, not blooding players.

I dont think thats right... Lomu burst onto the 1995 World Cup as an unknown to most of the world.

manofgwent wrote:Smirnoff.
Agree totally.
I'm delighted to see the stand out players of the regions finally proving tat they're the real deal. Just wish gatland had given them more chances. Gatland's persisted with his favourites and hasn't used his time well. He's picked the some faces, whether they're in form or not. We may have well blooded the youngsters earlier. Gatlands record over the last 2 years i's very poor, so I think he may as well have built a team, not try and bring in these players 2 months before a WC.

The warm up games should be all about finalising things, not blooding players.

Agree!
Best post for a while on this forum.

MOG:

Agree with your comments but most of the duffers have gone like G Williams, G Copper, D Jones, James and we appear to finally got rid of Powell (strange they all played for Cardiff!!) but we still have a hooker that can't throw and we have brought in some backs that don't tackle which could be a disaster against the teams we will be playing in the RWC. Overall the forwards should be an improvement over the last two years but our backs look physically weaker!

Like MOG, I believe we should be refining the team for the RWC not rebuilding, hence we must keep the core of the team together and introduce one or two players over the games. My main concern is the second row in terms of depth in the forwards squad. In the backs, I would like Bishop (who has been ommitted) for his defensive qualitities (at least on the bench), I would not have Stoddart or Preistland at FB or worse have them in the same team, we would have to play 9 man rugby as we would have a tracing paper defence through the 10/12 channel.

Overall I can't see a really young team representing Wales but some experience players will not be certain of playing every game in the EWC!

I think the forwards pretty much pick themselves and I think that gatland will pretty much pick his 6 nations pack. Gethin Jenkins should come back in. I dont think the 2nd row pairing are playing particularly well. The worry for me are the backs. Gatland will pick Phillips. Therefore Phillips will need game time, but so to will knoyle. 10 i's undecided as is the centre pairing. Our 1st choice wings have been struggling with injury as has our full back back who has also been struggling with form. The 3 warm up games will be fascinating with all to play for.

Alyn. On the lomu comments. Lomu joined a settled team. Fitzpatrick, jones, kronfeld, Brooke, mehrtend, Vince, Wilson and Osborne. Lomu had just had his 1st season with the blues and introducing one in form player isn't a risk. It would be like introducing George north into the all blacks team now. The huge majority of the team should be settled first.
Wales currently aren't sure of their no 8, fly half, centres, wings and full back.

I dont think looking to the past constantly using hindsight as a kind of critical clarity really says anything.

Lets focus on the future and what is happening now.

I would love to see if Knoyle and Williams have pushed Peel out of the squad now, or even moved Phillips down the ladder, the zip in their play could make all the difference to Wales. I think a bit of youth could really light up the welsh back line.

Well on the back of Wales' recent results, I would think most Welsh supporters are not too confident with the current crop of senior players.

Would it not then be a good time for the coach to expose as many young players as possible to the rigours of RWC. They will have the next four years to fine tune the squad, and send a bunch of still relatively youngsters with world cup experience and most likely 50 odd tests under the belt to Japan in 2015.

I like your thinking, Biltong, but I doubt it'll happen. Gatland's probably thinking that the time to bring in a raft of new young players is after this World Cup - he's signed up to take us to the next anyway (as things stand). I'd rather he picked the players most likely to do well at this World Cup, but never mind.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:I like your thinking, Biltong, but I doubt it'll happen. Gatland's probably thinking that the time to bring in a raft of new young players is after this World Cup - he's signed up to take us to the next anyway (as things stand). I'd rather he picked the players most likely to do well at this World Cup, but never mind.

Why would you think that? I think Gatland has always picked players who play well in training as well as show form in the league.

I am pretty confident that the 35 guys who are in Spala at the second camp will be the ones who make up the 30 man party for the RWC and the squad for the pre RWC matches. The only player I think Gats would bring in if fit is Hibbard.

Reading reports and listening to the chat, it sounds like the young players are definitely in with a shout here.

I'm not so sure Maeteg - maybe it's just being disillusioned over the last few years when he'd just stick to his tried and tested players and only turn to fresh blood when an injury hit - or use it to deflect attention (Prydie, Phillips, North). Which is kind of why we're in this situation in the 1st place.

Though I do agree that there will be more youth in this team than his normal selection, with Warbs and Lydiate, I still think we could see a pack of Jones, Rees, Jenks
AW, Davies,
Warbs, R Jones, Lydiate
as opposed to
one with Mitchell (if Jones isn't fit enough)
and Delve or Faletau in there

And in the backs we'll see Phillips, Jones, Henson, Roberts, Williams, Halfpenny, Byrne - instead of mixing in some exciting youth with the experience.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I'm not so sure Maeteg - maybe it's just being disillusioned over the last few years when he'd just stick to his tried and tested players and only turn to fresh blood when an injury hit - or use it to deflect attention (Prydie, Phillips, North). Which is kind of why we're in this situation in the 1st place.

Though I do agree that there will be more youth in this team than his normal selection, with Warbs and Lydiate, I still think we could see a pack of Jones, Rees, Jenks
AW, Davies,
Warbs, R Jones, Lydiate
as opposed to
one with Mitchell (if Jones isn't fit enough)
and Delve or Faletau in there

And in the backs we'll see Phillips, Jones, Henson, Roberts, Williams, Halfpenny, Byrne - instead of mixing in some exciting youth with the experience.

I think your pack is probably close to it though I would imagine ryan Jones to be a bench player for Delve or Faletau unless he is in great form and the other two are not.

I cant imagine any reason why Gatland would put out a Welsh team that wasnt the best we could muster?

If the players dont fit in then they probably weren't good enough. I think Jamie Roberts may be missing from the back line as could stephen jones.

Maestegmafia:

I believe Delve is not in the 35 for the correct reason he is not available to prove himself.

I think Faletau will be a bench player against SA, we need experience in the back row, we have in the front and second row.

I think S Jones not being in the back line is wishfull thinking that I share, I worry his short poor kicking will bite us in the backside against Samoa and Fiji (like 4 years ago) with them running back at the likes of Stoddart, North or Preistland none with solid defence.

If everyone i's fit, I think gatland will pick;
Jenkins
Rees
A jones
B Davies
AW jones
Lydiate
Warburtom
R jones
Phillips
Hook
S Williams
J Davies
Roberts
Halfpenny
Byrne

I think that's what gatland thinks i's his strongest team. If there are injuries then expect to see covering centres and full back and Stephen jones coming in. I think that he'll still stick with sideways jones at 8. I'm not saying this i's the team I would pick, but if Wales do make the quarters, the team won't look anything like this due to injuries and form. As steve Hansen did in 03, I think that gatland could stumble across his best team.

manofgwent wrote:. As steve Hansen did in 03, I think that gatland could stumble across his best team.

Which would be great news...!

think about r jones is he has been playing well receantly and proved himself during the 6n, however i think delve should start 8 due to his xp with Toby F on the bench to come on later and cause HAVOC!!!

it will certainly be interesting to see what delve has to offer, hopefully he will get an opportunity against england

manofgwent wrote:If everyone i's fit, I think gatland will pick;
Jenkins
Rees
A jones
B Davies
AW jones
Lydiate
Warburtom
R jones
Phillips
Hook
S Williams
J Davies
Roberts
Halfpenny
Byrne

I think that's what gatland thinks i's his strongest team. If there are injuries then expect to see covering centres and full back and Stephen jones coming in. I think that he'll still stick with sideways jones at 8. I'm not saying this i's the team I would pick, but if Wales do make the quarters, the team won't look anything like this due to injuries and form. As steve Hansen did in 03, I think that gatland could stumble across his best team.

manofgwent
You are bang on the money that is the team that Gatland will pick. Unfortunately unless Byrne, and the front 3 are back to their pre-lions best you will not win any games with that team. Its simple the opposition blindside will close down the half backs, Phillips is too slow, Hook is dreadful in restricted play, and is unable to straighten the line, leaving the centres with no viable options.

I fear the worse

I really think that Gatland will go with whoever is on form in the next month and a half.

Reading and listening to the reports suggest as much.

Manofgwent: If everybody is fit that is our strongest team but I doubt all will be fit by the time the RWC starts. Your comment regarding R Jones is strange as he was the players player runner up and the supporters player of the season for the Ospreys, not bad for a lad from Gwent in a strong team! With JT out of contension we need a good line out option in the back row, control bad ball and he catches just about all kick off's for the team. I can see him on the bench in some of the games to cover second row as Charteris the is a breakdown risk (injury).

I think we have a number of players that can cover multiple positions which is good news as I think we will need a full front row on the bench.

Our biggest weakness is at 15 after Bryne we have no full time FB, the thought of some of the options is a concern!

glamorganalun wrote:
Our biggest weakness is at 15 after Bryne we have no full time FB, the thought of some of the options is a concern!

I know what you mean about fullback, but I like Rhys Priestland as a back up, and at least Hook has experience there just incase we are really stuck with an injury or two during a match...!

Maesteg:

I like a fullback that can catch the ball under pressure, tackles, an attacking option and kicks long for touch, Preistland fails the first two requirements and so does Stoddart!

glamorganalun wrote:Maesteg:

I like a fullback that can catch the ball under pressure, tackles, an attacking option and kicks long for touch, Preistland fails the first two requirements and so does Stoddart!

True...!

Byrne is the only real option, lets hope he is on form.

The only option besides picking Barry Davies is 1/2 Penny but he has not played there for a while and he has still not recovered from injury!

glamorganalun wrote:The only option besides picking Barry Davies is 1/2 Penny but he has not played there for a while and he has still not recovered from injury!

I think Jamie Roberts has more experience than halfpenny at fullback and would probably be a better selection, the other options are Hook or Henson. But i would imagine all those are behind Stoddard and Priestland.

The two options of 1/2 Penny or Roberts is better than the likely option of Pristland or Stoddart I sppose we will find out in the next 3 games!

maestegmafia wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Maesteg:

I like a fullback that can catch the ball under pressure, tackles, an attacking option and kicks long for touch, Preistland fails the first two requirements and so does Stoddart!

True...!

Byrne is the only real option, lets hope he is on form.

Quite amazing comments
Review the BaaBaas game Stoddart was simply superb in defence and the high ball, he also has never been poor in the trackle area, but was just amazing poor in his game awarness hence he was always in the wrong position hence he could not get near to tackle. Priestland is quite a lump makes quite big hits, played in a number of high pressure games during the HC campaign and gave a credible account of himself. Both these players have been (up to the training camps) in much better form both in defence, with the boot and in attack than Byrne or Hook (please please wake up the guy is not a FB absolutely dire in defence)

Lets get real here

Players who have played well this year at FB both at your regional and /or national level are

Barry Davies
Priestland
Stoddart
1/2p

Players who have played less than average both at regional or international level for one or two seasons

Byrne
Hook

Any supporter who has been watching ML, HC, or National team matches I think would concur with that

It seems that 4-5 weeks on non rugby activity blurs the memory

flyhalffactory wrote:Lets get real here

Players who have played well this year at FB both at your regional and /or national level are

Barry Davies
Priestland
Stoddart
1/2p

Players who have played less than average both at regional or international level for one or two seasons

Byrne
Hook

Any supporter who has been watching ML, HC, or National team matches I think would concur with that

It seems that 4-5 weeks on non rugby activity blurs the memory

you forgot richard fussell to the list of well playing fullbacks, ospreys player of the year.

1/2 Penny and Roberts have not played FB all season to my knowledge but they have the skills and quality but need game time if they are to play there. Preistland and Stoddart are part time FB's and not international standard, Stoddart dropped two kicks against England playing wing and he did not make a single tackle all game except after the ref blew up. Stoddart also missed a tackle on the wing against Scotland that got Bryne sin binned for a desperation high tackle. I have followed Stoddart since he was at Pontypridd great going forward but defence although much better this season is still poor.

The reference to the HC games, how many tries were conceded bearing in mind the Scarlets had an Italian team in their group, not a good example of a good defence.

Wales should go for a full time FB it has to be Bryne but the fall back option in the squad is not good, I would good for B Davies (both ex Scarlets) but he always seems to be injured!

Cant agree with you Alun

Stoddart was always good in the tackle area even in his early days pre-Scarlets , his downfall was his positional awareness, very much like Hook still (Hook is brave but dire in the tackle area as he is in closed down areas)

for every reference you give I could counter it quite easily

Look at the Scotalnd video again ............. see where the fault lies, it aint Stoddart

Full backs been a worry for a while now. The blues are bringing through fish, Martyn Thomas has been really unlucky with injury. It's a real shame that the dragons couldn't have got prydie on loan last season to give him some game time. It seems crazy that Wales have 4 regions. The blues started the season with Blair at 15, the dragons have been playing will harries out of position. The ospreys have Byrne, Barry Davies and would sooner play fussell (a wing) at 15 than a youngster whos played for the national team and is seen as the next 15. Fair play to fussell. He played really well, but we're moaning about not having any option at 15 and Tom prydie, who played for Wales 16 months ago has been rotting for Swansea.

Alun. My comments on sideways are that he will be picked at 8. He'll tackle, he'll win turn overs and he won't get an inch over the gain line. The guys been living on his reputation of about 3 years ago. He's about as agile as a 3 legged donkey.

Maesteg. I wish I had your confidence that gatland will pick the youth. He won't change too much from his 6 nations team, but with bumps and bruises I hope the likes of faletau will get a chance to shine.

manofgwent

I heard that Ireland were very intereste in Prydie and through parentage it could have happened

So Mr G's lot gave him a cap or two and then nothing more

maestegmafia wrote:I really think that Gatland will go with whoever is on form in the next month and a half.

Reading and listening to the reports suggest as much.

I think Gatland will pick who he thinks is on form and the best most physical players - but I doubt that will be similar to who the rest of us think is on form and the best players. I say this because those 2 opinions haven't been at all similar in the last 2/3 years - I can see Bennet being picked, Byrne picked (probably coz he shows some form in the Training camps), Phillips (because he's shown over the last year what a tough competitor he is) and Yapp (because he's shown how versatile he is and has shown form).

note - brackets are what I imagine Gatland will use to justify inclusion.

Whereas I think the opinions of a lot of rugby fans will differ from this.

flyhalffactory wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Maesteg:

I like a fullback that can catch the ball under pressure, tackles, an attacking option and kicks long for touch, Preistland fails the first two requirements and so does Stoddart!

True...!

Byrne is the only real option, lets hope he is on form.

Quite amazing comments
Review the BaaBaas game Stoddart was simply superb in defence and the high ball, he also has never been poor in the trackle area, but was just amazing poor in his game awarness hence he was always in the wrong position hence he could not get near to tackle. Priestland is quite a lump makes quite big hits, played in a number of high pressure games during the HC campaign and gave a credible account of himself. Both these players have been (up to the training camps) in much better form both in defence, with the boot and in attack than Byrne or Hook (please please wake up the guy is not a FB absolutely dire in defence)

Have to agree with FHF, Stoddart has improved dramatically in defence and Priestland puts in some huge hits in defence - and when you compare these 2 to Hook who is almost an open gate when at FB (his positonal play is awful) or 10 it's laughable.
Also Roberts and Halfpenny have next to no experience at FB in recent times (last 2 seasons), yet you'd want to chose these 2 over Stoddart or Priestland because you say they are make shift FB's and worse options than Roberts/Halfpenny

Stoddart did defend well if you left early and didn't see him wave through nacewa. His positioning was awful and out of all the places you need to be able to read a game and be positionally aware, then full back i's it. I don't know what's happened to Byrne. He had 2 great years for region and country, but seems to have slipped back into his old ways. It looks to be all about confidence with him. There have been signs of him showing what he can do, but at times look poor and very critical of himself. I think a change of scene in France will be good for him.

manofgwent wrote:of all the places you need to be able to read a game and be positionally aware, then full back i's it.

Quite right, which is why James Hook should never have been moved there when Byrne was injured. He's not a full back.

But if people think Stoddart is poor in defence - which i don't agree with this season, then there is not way anyone should want Hook anywhere near the 15 shirt as he is truely awful defensively in defence, and annonomous(sp) in attack.

I'm hoping a change of scenery will do both Hook and Byrne good, but then if Byrne's been playing this poorly will he even get any game time in France?

apologies that should have read he is truly awful defensively at FB

If Byrne picks up a knock, then I wouldn't put it past gatland to play hook at 15. Hooky must get fed up of being moved around. He's done more positions than Imogen Thomas!

MOG lmao

Reading the articles, it sounds like there's a genuine chance that Lloyd Burns will go ahead of Huw Bennett which I imagine will be pretty popular on here.

It would be very good - but I just can't see it I mean a Gatland squad without at least one cringeworthy selection that makes people scream Why? and a squad without Gatlands favourite love child Bennett?

I doubt it...

Bennett has to go...... Who else i's gatland gonna room with!