Rangers Capture Ortiz while Mcgregor and Whittiker sign contract extensions

Rangers have got their first signing of pre season in Juan Manual Ortiz for Almeria

Not seen him enough to be able to make any judgements yet, but sounds like a Spanish Steven Whittiker.

The other good news is Mcgregor and Whittiker sign contract extensions, with talks ongoing with Steven Davis.

What do you guys think of the new signing?

If a Spanish player has joined the SPL it means he isn't good enough to play elsewhere, lacks ambition or is being offered too much money by Rangers.

super_realist wrote:If a Spanish player has joined the SPL it means he isn't good enough to play elsewhere, lacks ambition or is being offered too much money by Rangers.

Having lived in Scotland for the last 14 years, its defo not that reason.

You simply have to ask why a player from La Liga (even though he played for a team that got relegated) would want to move to the SPL, asking whether he isn't good enough to get another team in a better league than our tinpot league, whether he lacks ambition by signing for a team who are highly likely to get knocked out of CL qualifying at the first time of asking or whether he is being offered silly money to play in Scotland (why would anyone move here if he wasn't) and in a league with the childish behaviour of two sets of bigotted fans are certainly worth raising.

I would say "captured" would be too strong a term, probably that no one else wanted him. If they did he wouldn't have signed for Rangers

Ah super with his own brand of enthusiasm although in this case I agree with you, I just wouldn't have chosen your words.

It is possible that the lure of trophies and European competition (how ever short!) drew him in.

The lure of trophies? A trophy that equates to a coin toss for a tin pot league on a par with the Danish, Belgian and Swedish leagues and a home and away fixture in Europe?

I hardly think that would be a draw for a player from La Liga, even for a player from a team that wasn't good enough to stay in it.

Higher wages is a big reason for a lot of players moving from one club to another, seeing as he played 126 games in 4 seasons for Almeria it isn't the lure of first team football, but equally La Liga can't be that big of a lure seeing as this is a team that was never outside of the bottom half of the table and spent 27 weeks in the relegation places, it's not as if they're prime candidates for getting promotion.

Surely even the second tier of Spanish Football is preferable to the SPL though.

If he was a decent player, the last place he'd end up would be over here.

I think you underestimate the desire of players to be on a winning team and have some medals to show for your career.

Especially as this guy probably wasn't going to make it to Barca or Man Utd -- so he has gone somewhere with a real chance of trophies and European football. Can't blame him really.

May I ask s_r why feel the need to ridicule the spl in every thread, while I agree there are higher standard leagues, what does it bring to topic especially as you have already started a thread containing your views on Scottish football.

The real reason he has moved is because he will be on a decent contract, win a few medals, and if he plays well, it is going to alert top end championship \ lower end prem teams to sign him.

May I ask when the last time you attended/ watched a Scottish game was, and if so if you hate the product that much why decided to watch it, or are you views just purely there to start arguments with the people who do enjoy following there teams in the Scottish league.

Well, the OP asked for views so whether you like them or not, opinions were sought and that's what he got.
He may win a few medals in the SPL, but they have as much value as chocolate coins you find in your stocking on christmas day.

This is a guy who has played in La Liga against some of the best players in the world, now he's going to be up against some of the most average in Europe. Whether you like it or not, you have to ask why, don't you? It's a considerable backward step for anyone to take. So I ask again, is it for money or isn't he very ambitious. Can his stock really have fallen so far that he has to go to a team in Scotland?

If you were in his shoes, would you really want to sign for a team in the SPL?
THis is not a forum where all we do is wax lyrical about something, you're bound to come up against people with different views, so please accept that.
This seems like a very bizarre move for a player of La Liga quality (well just about) to make, so i'll beg your pardon if I actually raise an eyebrow and ask the question as to what on earth is possessing the guy to come over here and play in a league that UEFA rank 16th in Europe, behind the might of Austria and Switzerland

If i were in his shoes yes i would sign for a team in the SPL.

People have debated your original point on why he signed no problem,

my issue is your continual need to bash the SPL in every post, We get it you do not find it a worthwhile investment of your time, that is your opinion,

However i am pretty sure that many players do find it a worthwhile investment of their time, believe it or not some players would rather win and play in front of 50K fans with an opportunity to win trophies than be on the same pitch as messi, or join Wolves (sorry wolves fans) so you can fight relegation

Maybe he just wanted to experience a different culture, although Glasgow wouldnt be my first choice for this. Maybe he is an avid golfer and see its as excellent opportunity to develop his Golf game in the many fine Courses.

As for your La Liga quality, Nacho Novo only became La Liga quality after playing in scotland.

Nuno Capucho who played many years in Spain was one of the worst players to ever grace the SPL.

I have to agree that joining the "culture" of Glasgow would be my last choice for a move too. Also I don't think I've had any satisfactory reasons as to why he'd come here apart from winning medals, I'd find winning an SPL medal as a fairly worthless achievement. Wow I've won a winners medal in the 16th best league in Europe, I can retire happy now.
I just can't believe that if he was any good he would end up here, therefore I can only imagine that he is incredibly average, although this might make him a superstar over here.

Personally I could think of at least 10 leagues that might be a better career move.


Is Nacho Novo really La Liga quality? 4 goals in 30 games would probably suggest not.

I agree that he will not be good enough to play for a top team, but in my original post I was enquiring as thoughts of his abilities to play in Scotland. It would be a redundant question enquiring about his abilities to play in the EPL.

Perhaps he will be good enough to play in the SPL, and probably with some distinction, to me however it seems a move with a rather obvious lack of ambition.
It seems a bit like a respected journalist such as Henry Winter or Patrick Barclay with a big national broadsheet going to work for a tinpot rag like the Glasgow Evening Times.

super_realist wrote:Perhaps he will be good enough to play in the SPL, and probably with some distinction, to me however it seems a move with a rather obvious lack of ambition.
It seems a bit like a respected journalist such as Henry Winter or Patrick Barclay with a big national broadsheet going to work for a tinpot rag like the Glasgow Evening Times.

The same lack of ambition that Jelavic has showed signing for Rangers, Man Utd are sniffing about him and i expect him to make a big money move to the premiership next season, as long as he has a good season i expect Rangers to at least double their money.

super_realist wrote:I have to agree that joining the "culture" of Glasgow would be my last choice for a move too. Also I don't think I've had any satisfactory reasons as to why he'd come here apart from winning medals, I'd find winning an SPL medal as a fairly worthless achievement. Wow I've won a winners medal in the 16th best league in Europe, I can retire happy now.
I just can't believe that if he was any good he would end up here, therefore I can only imagine that he is incredibly average, although this might make him a superstar over here.

Personally I could think of at least 10 leagues that might be a better career move.


Is Nacho Novo really La Liga quality? 4 goals in 30 games would probably suggest not.

And what makes you think he's good enough to play for a better team, his team were relagated from La Liga, if he was good enough, the Spanish teams would have snapped him up, he's been playing there for a few seasons. Just because he wasn't snapped up by a big team doesn't make him average, there's many examples but look who the likes of Henrik Larson and Reno Gattuso signed for when they left the Old firm, they made there names in Scotland.

Hobo wrote:

super_realist wrote:If a Spanish player has joined the SPL it means he isn't good enough to play elsewhere, lacks ambition or is being offered too much money by Rangers.

Having lived in Scotland for the last 14 years, its defo not that reason.

Ah, so that's why you have Parts Unknown as your location Hobo, i don't blame you mate.

Jelavic made more of a sideways move, coming as he did from an Austrian league side. VIs a vis, it was barely a risk, in fact it was probably a slight step up given the paucity of coverage we see from the Austrian league and possibly saw the move as a shop window, although I seriously doubt Man U would consider him.

Ortiz may well not have been good enough to play in La Liga, but you'd have thought he was good enough to play in a league better than the SPL wouldn't you?, not drop to a level ranked 14 leagues below the one he just played in. Surely he's not that bad that he has to stoop that low to get a club.
In regard to Gattuso and Larsson they both played at a time when the stock of the SPL was far higher (Gatusso left in 1998 and Larsson in 2004 ffs), there's no way a player from the SPL now, would sign for a big or even a medium league these days and make much of an impact.

As for McGregor, he's a decent keeper, he seems happy to be a big fish in a small pond earning a pretty good salary. Surely he could have got a better team elsewhere than sign away another few years in the SPL.

super_realist wrote:Jelavic made more of a sideways move, coming as he did from an Austrian league side. VIs a vis, it was barely a risk, in fact it was probably a slight step up given the paucity of coverage we see from the Austrian league and possibly saw the move as a shop window, although I seriously doubt Man U would consider him.

Ortiz may well not have been good enough to play in La Liga, but you'd have thought he was good enough to play in a league better than the SPL wouldn't you?, not drop to a level ranked 14 leagues below the one he just played in. Surely he's not that bad that he has to stoop that low to get a club.
In regard to Gattuso and Larsson they both played at a time when the stock of the SPL was far higher (Gatusso left in 1998 and Larsson in 2004 ffs), there's no way a player from the SPL now, would sign for a big or even a medium league these days and make much of an impact.

As for McGregor, he's a decent keeper, he seems happy to be a big fish in a small pond earning a pretty good salary. Surely he could have got a better team elsewhere than sign away another few years in the SPL.

But you make out that nobody good comes to Scotland and when they leave they go nowhere, Kenny Miller went back and forth between the SPL and EPL, Carlos Cuellar and Danny Wilson signed for Villa and Liverpool, Adam is about to sign for Liverpool, the EPL takes all the good players out the SPL so it can't be that bad.

Carlos Cuellar and Danny Wilson have made virtually no impact despite standing out to some degree in the SPL, credit to Miller for his persistence but it never really paid off for him either playing in two teams who persistently fought relegation, ditto Sidepass Ferguson.

Charlie Adam was sold for a pittance by Rangers because they obviously didn't rate him as he was farmed out to Ross County, St.Mirren and Blackpool and he's been changed into a completely different player by playing down south, he's nothing like the player he was at Rangers so I don't think you can claim that the SPL was responsible for his development. You have to go back to Arteta to find a player who was capable of meeting the appropriate standard to make it down south, and that was a very long time ago.

The EPL has taken a chance on a very small number of SPL players most often taken down by sentimental and misguided Ex SPL or Scottish managers, but an even smaller fraction of those have been even remotely successful, most falling down the pyramid some distance before they find a level they are capable of playing at.

Remember J Alain Boumsong, looked great up here, but a complete turkey everywhere else.

Super_Realist, you must be the most anti Scottish football Scotsman I ahve ever come across. Who cares if it is a two team league? Who cares if the league is average? The guy is going to be playing football for a decent wage and like said before, will get much greater exposure to the world than he would if he was playing in Liga Adelante.

It is fans like you that are bringing the Scottish game down, moaning that it is rubbish. Has it ever been on par with the EPL, La Liga, Serie A? No. Never has and never will be.

super_realist wrote:Carlos Cuellar and Danny Wilson have made virtually no impact despite standing out in the SPL, credit to Miller for his persistence but it never really paid off for him either playing in two teams who persistently fought relegation, ditto Sidepass Ferguson.

Charlie Adam was sold for a pittance by Rangers because they obviously didn't rate him and he's been changed into a completely different player by playing down south, he's nothing like the player he was at Rangers so I don't think you can claim that the SPL was responsible for his development. You have to go back to Arteta to find a player who was capable of meeting the appropriate standard to make it down south, and that was a very long time ago.

Cuellar has not resigned for Rangers because the Villa defense is going to be built around him under McLeish this season, Wilson was hardly going to stroll into the first team. Liverpool paid 5 million for him so obviously see him as the future. I believe Jelavic will head down south next season and make an impact. If the league was as bad as you say it wouldn't be raided by the English leagues every season, it's bad, just not as bad as your making out, all the talent goes south with the money so we can't expect too much. Take the money out of England and all your left with is all the English players, money talks, that's the problem.

Steve, you are missing the point, I'm not trying to denegrate the league, we all know it's a poor standard and incomarable to the others you mention, I'm simply asking why someone who is capable of playing in a league like La Liga (fair enough he got relegated) could possibly gain/see/feel proud of by playing in the SPL.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with being a Scotsman and anti SPL, the problem with Scotland as a whole is that people are too defensive about all aspects of the country and believe that if something is Scottish then it must be good. That's complete balls.

Galveston, SPL clubs are not "raided" by the EPL, in fact in the last couple of years there have been hardly any going south, to the CHampionship and League 1 perhaps, but not anywhere higher.

super_realist wrote:Steve, you are missing the point, I'm not trying to denegrate the league, we all know it's a poor standard and incomarable to the others you mention, I'm simply asking why someone who is capable of playing in a league like La Liga (fair enough he got relegated) could possibly gain/see/feel proud of by playing in the SPL.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with being a Scotsman and anti SPL, the problem with Scotland as a whole is that people are too defensive about all aspects of the country and believe that if something is Scottish then it must be good. That's complete balls.

Galveston, SPL clubs are not "raided" by the EPL, in fact in the last couple of years there have been hardly any going south, to the CHampionship and League 1 perhaps, but not anywhere higher.

So your telling me all the good Scottish players or people who play in Scotland don't go to England, or that they can only go to the premiership or they're rudey poo, is that what your saying. These are the same Championship sides which get promoted into the Premiership

Indeed, he speaks like he's the first player to ever come from a big league to the SPL. We've had guys coming from the EPL ,Bundesliga and Serie,Ligue 1, all the top leagues. Whilst playing at a relatively high level.

Galveston, I'm not saying that at all.

UEFA rank the SPL as being the 16th "best" league in Europe, right or wrong they probably aren't far off in their assessment.

Whilst on one hand I welcome players of a better standard coming across in the hope that they might improve the standard of the league, I can't quite see what benefit ANY player will gain on a PERSONAL level by joining such a league. Therefore, if I was in their shoes I would see moving to The Championship as being a step higher than the SPL, see what I mean. I can't believe that all that was offered to him was the SPL. If it is, then it says a great deal about the standard of the player and the quality of team such a player is able to attract

Therefore the question is and remains, if the quality of the players within the SPL are as good as some of you claim why are so few of them capable or indeed wanted by other teams in terms moving anywhere else and making an impact even with lowly teams in other leagues.

super_realist wrote:Whilst on one hand I welcome players of a better standard coming across in the hope that they might improve the standard of the league, I can't quite see what benefit ANY player will gain on a PERSONAL level by joining such a league.

Money and the chance to win a trophy and look back on his career and see he didn't just spend his time fighting relegation (and loosing) from La Liga. Sure it may be a better league but it's really no different to the SPL as there are two teams you know will be fighting it out for the title, it's just know he'll be on one of those two teams.

super_realist wrote:Therefore, if I was in their shoes I would see moving to The Championship as being a step higher than the SPL, see what I mean. I can't believe that all that was offered to him was the SPL. If it is, then it says a great deal about the standard of the player and the quality of team such a player is able to attract.

You may see it as a step higher than the SPL that doesn't mean everyone else does, he may be getting more money in the SPL while he knows he will be at one of the top two teams and if he performs well might get a move to England in a year or two and end up at a better team making more money.

So if you were a professional would you like to say you plied your trade at the highest level throughout your career against the best players, or winning comparitively worthless trophies in the SPL?



I've actually just noticed that Ortiz is 29 so he's hardly going to be an attractive proposition for any of the top teams in a couple of years time. So I doubt he's using the move as a shop window.

Therefore, I shall make the conclusion that he probably isn't good enough to play in La Liga (borne out by getting relegated and not signed by a rival team) and that he may be finding his level by joining the SPL and/or because he's getting paid a lot to come here.

Can't see much wrong with that assessment.

He wouldnt be moving to a better team after Rangers, making more money, yes.

I hope you are not insinuating that Rangers are a good team?

super_realist wrote:So if you were a professional would you like to say you plied your trade at the highest level throughout your career against the best players, or winning comparitively worthless trophies in the SPL?

I've actually just noticed that Ortiz is 29 so he's hardly going to be an attractive proposition for any of the top teams in a couple of years time. So I doubt he's using the move as a shop window.

Therefore, I shall make the conclusion that he probably isn't good enough to play in La Liga (borne out by getting relegated and not signed by a rival team) and that he may be finding his level by joining the SPL and/or because he's getting paid a lot to come here.

Can't see much wrong with that assessment.

Would you rather look at your career and see constant relegation fights, which you eventually lost and then getting stuck in Liga Adelante, or look back and see constant releagtion fights and then some medals? So teams can't sign players who are over 29?

No,I wouldn't necessarily want to consistently fight relegation, I'd probably seek out a move to a league where I was still able to play at a very high level and against real quality players but I wouldn't want to demean myself by joining a league so far down the pecking order in international standing in order to win a couple of medals. It would feel like an anti climax to me.
Surely this guy would be capable of a move to French, German, Dutch or Portuguese leagues, or is he really such a persona non grata that the SPL was his only choice?

Lets just say that Ortiz is at Rangers for 2 years, he'll be 31 by then. Not many top teams will buy someone of that age unless they are of really high quality like a Van Nistlerooy or Raul.

super_realist wrote:I hope you are not insinuating that Rangers are a good team?

He's 29 theres no chance he will go to a better team than Rangers now, and whats it got to do with you if i am insinuating Rangers are a good team?

I thought you were meaning that you believed Rangers to be a great step for him because you believe them to be a great team an no one could possibly find a better team than them.

They are a good team not great, but who do you support btw?

I would say they were a good team about 7-10 years ago, but no longer. Now they are pretty average (as are the other team)

I was only asking because I believe a lot of people defend the SPL purely because their team plays in it and they feel some sort of loyalty towards it, and to demean it is to indirectly criticise their own team which many seem unable to do.

I also only replied to the OP in the first place because the question was posed as if the aquisition of the player was some sort of coup done under the noses of other clubs who were after him, that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Again what team do you support.

by your logic and using the same rankings you use to get Scotland is the 16th ranked league in Europe,

Rangers are the 33 best ranked team in Europe as at the end of last season so to call them average is somewhat of a push.

Nay Bother wrote:by your logic and using the same rankings you use to get Scotland is the 16th ranked league in Europe,

Rangers are the 33 best ranked team in Europe as at the end of last season so to call them average is somewhat of a push.

And where were Almeria ranked? I assumed they weren't above 33?

It's irrelvant what team I support, and I'm sorry but to be ranked 33rd is fairly average considering that they are probably higher than 33rd in their attendences. I constantly hear that Rangers (and Celtic) are big teams, but if you are proud of being ranked 33rd then perhaps such fans are finally seeing their place in European football a little bit more realistically.

This isn't an anti Rangers thread, (even although I dislike them), I would say the same about any other team.

My whole point is based upon the motivation of a player joining the SPL, when SURELY they had better career options to hand.

But that is the point, it is what you class as better career options, not the player.

You are assuming everyone would follow your opinion and train of thought.

Derbyblue wrote:

Nay Bother wrote:by your logic and using the same rankings you use to get Scotland is the 16th ranked league in Europe,

Rangers are the 33 best ranked team in Europe as at the end of last season so to call them average is somewhat of a push.

And where were Almeria ranked? I assumed they weren't above 33?

They not even top 100.

User Name wrote:

Derbyblue wrote:

Nay Bother wrote:by your logic and using the same rankings you use to get Scotland is the 16th ranked league in Europe,

Rangers are the 33 best ranked team in Europe as at the end of last season so to call them average is somewhat of a push.

And where were Almeria ranked? I assumed they weren't above 33?

They not even top 100.

What a shock!

The thing is he's moving to play in a better team but really he is probably playing in a league of about the same quality (SPL and Liga Adelante). I assume he wasn't expecting any better offers and decided to take his chance in the SPL he may move to the Championship after one season if he's good enough or he may regret not sticking with Almeria and trying to get them back into the top flight, only time will tell.

I suppose it is down to opinion ultimately, this whole forum is based on opinion and our preponderance to disagreeing with them, but any professional footballer would have to be a little barmy to see a move to the SPL from La Liga (or the second tier) as anything but a massive backward step.

In SPL terms, it's probably worse than moving from Rangers to AUchinleck Talbot.

super_realist wrote:I suppose it is down to opinion ultimately, this whole forum is based on opinion and our preponderance to disagreeing with them, but any professional footballer would have to be a little barmy to see a move to the SPL from La Liga (or the second tier) as anything but a massive backward step.

In SPL terms, it's probably worse than moving from Rangers to AUchinleck Talbot.

How is it such a massive backward step?

Whats the point on constantly referring to league rankings. The fact is his team were relegated, he is then offered a chance to join a world renowned team who fill stadiums, play in the champions league and win trophies. Rangers have and always will be bigger than Almeria, this is a stepup, not in opposition terms but in expectations and psyche. Now he's trying to win things, living up to high expectations whilst im sure at Almeria those were relatively low.

Btw our league is 15th and was 7th only three years ago.

It's a big step back because:

A) Although Rangers may be a better team than Almeria, the league is of a much poorer standard. He is after all moving from playing in La Liga to SPL, you don't think that's a step backward?

B) Although his chances of European success at Rangers are no worse than at Almeria (both are no hopers) he's challenging himself against far poorer teams.
In spain he had Real, Barcelona, Betis, Mallorca, Seville, Athletico, Villareal etc, in Scotland he'll haveCeltic, Hearts, Hibs, Kilmarnock and Dunfermline, add to that he's got to play them a cringeworthy four times.

C) He's entering a league which has diminishing chances of bringing in money through TV rights, and so the quality is unlikely to improve whereas Spanish Football is going from strength to strength.

D) He'll be playing in front of relatively big crowds at Ibrox, only once a fortnight, the rest of the time it will be infront of 6-10k on average.

E) He's entering a league where some of the fans of the top two teams are entrenched in a return to childish, immature behaviour which has brought shame to the country in the last couple of years.

Mind you , if the money's right, who cares about all that?


I'll give him a year before he claims his wife can't settle in Glasgow.

Why do you have so much hate for Rangers & the SPL?

Wee team syndrome?