The English / British anthem query?

First topic message reminder :

Why do English teams only sing the first verse of Gad save the Queen? Any known reason why they dont sing verses 2 and 3?

Not many people in England know more than 1 or 2 verses, basically just what we sing at sports events.

AlynDavies wrote:Why do English teams only sing the first verse of Gad save the Queen? Any known reason why they dont sing verses 2 and 3?

Yep, nobody knows the rest!
There are some anthems that really drag on (or in the case of Ireland who seem to think they're entitled to 2), so good to keep it short.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:How can you not know the words to 'God Save the Queen?' There are so few words to it!

Never learnt it, never sung it, only hear it once a year when we play England, never taken much notice of it.

Wow, folks,
I hadn't realised there was such strong opinion about GSTQ here. Kind of makes me seem like a right wing nut-case. Which I certainly don't think I am. Well, right wing: no. Nut-case: Entirely debatable!

Nefarious, no worries, we are good. Not remotely taken as a personal attack. You have a strong pont of view. And well said. I respect that.

As an alternative to GSTQ, seems like most folks like Jerusalem. I always thought of Jerrsalem rather long and a little grinding. Though I like the sentiment about building utopia (Nefaroius, your word!) in England. But thats personal taste. For me, though, I was always a bit inspired by Land of Hope and Glory. I also like the idea of an anthem where people instantly recognise the song as soon as the music is played. Maybe I am off the mark (not again!), but that is Land for me.

Not for nothing, folks, this is a good discussion. Pointed, but civil.

BridgendBoyo wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:How can you not know the words to 'God Save the Queen?' There are so few words to it!

Never learnt it, never sung it, only hear it once a year when we play England, never taken much notice of it.

But you hear it at the Olympics too, when England play football, at athletics World and European championships... I assumed everyone would know the words.

To be fair trying to make out the lyrics when it's being belted out by 80,00 tone deaf sports fans is a little difficult.

When my Mum heard it as a child she used to think there was an animal called a reignoverous. Bless!

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Each to their own WelshJohn!

Whales whales bloody great fishes are whales,
they live in the sea,


But I do like the Italian one

Oh yeah I recall some 8 year old boy singing that once, wasn't funny then either

Anyone who is British (that's you too, BrigendBoyo) should know at least one verse of GSTQ.

Having said that most Welsh don't speak Welsh so technically you don't know your own anthem but just mumble along phonetically!!

The Irish do sing GSTQ but only when Graham Norton return home

Well at the olympics, world and European championships (im assuming youre talking about athletics) they play the tune. Never watch England play football. I'm pretty sure non of my mates know it either, i could hum the tune though

SafeAsMilk wrote:Anyone who is British (that's you too, BrigendBoyo) should know at least one verse of GSTQ.

Having said that most Welsh don't speak Welsh so technically you don't know your own anthem but just mumble along phonetically!!

Hahahaha one of biggest growing languages in the world mate and still going after 2,500 years:) Yma O hyd.

Ha 2,500 years, that's nothing mate was watching a doco on the BBC about ancient humans 30,000 years ago and they were all cockneys!

John Redwood knows the Welsh anthem better than most Welsh people.

SafeAsMilk wrote:John Redwood knows the Welsh anthem better than most Welsh people.

I am sure there are lots of greeks who know gstq too, possibly more than the popyulation of Bradford

SafeAsMilk wrote:Anyone who is British (that's you too, BrigendBoyo) should know at least one verse of GSTQ.

Having said that most Welsh don't speak Welsh so technically you don't know your own anthem but just mumble along phonetically!!

No I'm not fluent in Welsh, though I do know the english translation for 'My Hen Wlad fy Nhadau' (as i do sospan fach) as I was taught it in school. As ive said i've never sang GSTQ, and i thought it was the English anthem so would have never bothered to learn it.

Although I have and always will be Welsh first I am also an Ex Member of Her majestys Armed Forces and proud to be British.

When I go to a Wales England game I stand there and proudly sing both Anthems.

I sing Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau as I am a proud Welshman and I sing GSTQ as I am proud to have served my Country for over 26yrs at home and abroad in a lot of places damn hotter than Barry Island.

It's not a case of sitting down to learn it. Surely over years of watching rugby (and sport more widely) you'd have picked it up? I've learnt the words to most rugby-playing nations' national anthems just from watching Test matches - the only one I've sat down to learn is 'La Marseillaise.'

Carpe Diem wrote:The Queen knows the words and she's not English.

Not another import taking the place of someone native born..

BridgendBoyo wrote:No I'm not fluent in Welsh, though I do know the english translation for 'My Hen Wlad fy Nhadau' (as i do sospan fach) as I was taught it in school. As ive said i've never sang GSTQ, and i thought it was the English anthem so would have never bothered to learn it.

Why not?
The vast majority of Welsh sing it on Lions tours with the English. It's normally the Scots and Irish looking rebellious, not the Welsh.

I have never sung it, in fact I would not stand for it. Outdated nonsense in fact gstq could become the Englisg anthem no one else wants it.

Refusing to sing an anthem that applies to you is a bit silly.

If you're British GSTQ is your anthem.

I am Welsh and a Briton. Never british.

What does your passport say?

SafeAsMilk wrote:What does your passport say?

European citizen?

AlynDavies wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:What does your passport say?

European citizen?

Ode to Joy all round then?

SafeAsMilk wrote:Ode to Joy all round then?

Now there's a tune!

SafeAsMilk wrote:What does your passport say?

When something is imposed upon you it does mean you embrace it. It's a factor you english have failed to recognise for centuries. Eventually it will just be england. If Wales decided to go independent what would the english do?? Nothing that's what. It's all a matter of time pal.

Yma o hyd

welshjohn, we've moved on, it's 'Ode to Joy' now. Or are you not European either?

We should just get the players into one long line alternating by team and sing "We Are the World" before every International match.

welshjohn369 wrote:

BATH_BTGOG wrote:Each to their own WelshJohn!

Whales whales bloody great fishes are whales,
they live in the sea,


But I do like the Italian one

Oh yeah I recall some 8 year old boy singing that once, wasn't funny then either

I'm 7.

Come on WelshJohn join in with a verse from GSTQ, we're all British after all.

God save our gracious Queen
Long live our noble Queen
God save the Queen
Send her victorious
Happy and glorious
Long to reign over us
God save the Queen

What we need is a great big melting pot
Big enough to take the world and all it's got

etc

welshjohn369 wrote:When something is imposed upon you it does mean you embrace it. It's a factor you english have failed to recognise for centuries. Eventually it will just be england. If Wales decided to go independent what would the english do?? Nothing that's what. It's all a matter of time pal.

Yma o hyd

You cant be serious?
How can Wales afford independence? Most of our population is on benefits, most of our youngsters go to England to work and many English pensioners come to Wales to retire in comparativly cheap house along the coast!
We have a very old population and almost no jobs in the country, we only have 1 motorway along the south coast, so we don't have a proper transport infrastructure.
The only way it might suit Wales is because we would be classed as a poor European country and entitled to huge European grants, but considering Europe looks very sick at the moment I don't think in the long term it would be a good thing.

SafeAsMilk wrote:What does your passport say?

Actually I am curious, does all the English, Scots, N Irish and Welsh have British as nationality on their passports or is it their country of birth?

Pretty sure my passport says British, but it's all the way upstairs!

Have New Zealand got any spare anthems that we can borrow? Play them at club matches for a few years before playing them at the national level? Maybe discover that the guy who wrote it had an English Granny and bring it on bit sooner maybe?

OzT - I believe on the front it says it's a British Passport but on the page with all your info you can specify which country you were born in and which nationality you are. I think, not looked at my passport in aaaages so can't be sure.

God Save the Queen is an ok anthem, but I don't think it should be the national anthem for either the UK or England. I can only speak for myself but I am a bit of a republican and feel the Idea of a monarchy is a wee bit of a medieval throw back.

Carpe Diem wrote:Have New Zealand got any spare anthems that we can borrow? Play them at club matches for a few years before playing them at the national level? Maybe discover that the guy who wrote it had an English Granny and bring it on bit sooner maybe?

Cmon be constructive here!
When New Zealand do their Haka, why not fire back with the Hokey Cokey?

Taringa whakarongo
You put your left arm in, your left arm out
Kia rite, kia rite
In out, in out, you shake it all about
Kia mau, hi.
You do the Hokey Cokey and you turn around
Ringaringa pakia
That's what it's all about
waewae takahia kia kino nei hoki
Whoa-o the Hokey Cokey
E kino nei hoki
Knees bent, arms stretched, Raa raa raa

See it could work

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:God Save the Queen is an ok anthem, but I don't think it should be the national anthem for either the UK or England. I can only speak for myself but I am a bit of a republican and feel the Idea of a monarchy is a wee bit of a medieval throw back.

Oh yeah and couple that with the fact I don't believe in a diety I guess this song means absolutley nothing to me.

Oh, and I think my passport has something about the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" in it, but again I'd have to check.

OzT wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:What does your passport say?

Actually I am curious, does all the English, Scots, N Irish and Welsh have British as nationality on their passports or is it their country of birth?

Speaking as a Norn Iron national, mine says "IRELAND" and "EIRE" on the front cover and says Irish inside.

Quite a large number of people in Northern Ireland are in that situation.

Carpe Diem wrote:Have New Zealand got any spare anthems that we can borrow? Play them at club matches for a few years before playing them at the national level? Maybe discover that the guy who wrote it had an English Granny and bring it on bit sooner maybe?

Funny you should ask, NZ does actually have 2 national anthems. I suspect you don't want "God Defend New Zealand", but you're most welcome to our spare one. It's a little ditty we call "God Save the Queen"

Thanks guys for your replies on the UK passprt wordings.

Cheers

What is a Briton? How is it different to being British? Sorry if this is really ignorant i just never heard that term before.

Intresting article on Land of Hope and Glory from Wikipedia

Usages:
Proposed anthem for EnglandMain article: National anthem of England England currently has no agreed national anthem, with "God Save the Queen", the national anthem of the United Kingdom, often being used in sporting events in which England competes separately from the other Home Nations. There are calls for this to be changed,[5][6] however, and a 2006 survey conducted by the BBC suggested that 55% of the English public would rather have "Land of Hope and Glory" than "God Save the Queen" as their national anthem.[7]

Commonwealth Games Prior to 2010, Land of Hope and Glory was used as the victory anthem of England team at the Commonwealth Games.[8]

On St George's Day, April 23, 2010, the Commonwealth Games Council for England launched a poll to allow the public to decide which anthem is to be played at the 2010 Commonwealth Games in Delhi, India. Voters chose between God Save The Queen, Jerusalem and Land of Hope and Glory with the winning song, Jerusalem, being adopted as the official anthem for Team England.[9]

BBC Proms "Land of Hope and Glory" has long been sung amidst much flag-waving at the climax of the Last Night of the BBC Proms.

Rugby At international rugby league matches, England often sang "Land of Hope and Glory" as their national anthem (but since the 2005 internationals switched to "God Save the Queen").[citation needed]

"Land of Hope and Glory" is sung by English fans at home England rugby union games in Twickenham after the home and away National Anthems have been sung. "Land of Hope and Glory" is sung by the crowd as the teams assemble for kick off; this begun as a response to the New Zealand team's haka.

Football Supporters of Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club (the team Elgar supported) sing a version of the song with the lyrics changed to We will follow the Wanderers over land sea and water. [1] Supporters of their local rivals West Bromwich Albion sing We will follow the Albion over land sea and water. Supporters of Huddersfield Town sing 'We're all following Huddersfield, over land and sea' [2]. Supporters of Derby County football club sing “We all follow Derby, over land and sea (and Leicester)”. Aberystwyth Town of the Principality Welsh Premier League supporters sing a version of the song, 'We all follow the Aber, over land and sea and Bangor! we all follow the Aber, on to victory'

The Conservative Party It is the Conservative Party's official anthem and has been sung at party conferences.

AlynDavies wrote:

BridgendBoyo wrote:No I'm not fluent in Welsh, though I do know the english translation for 'My Hen Wlad fy Nhadau' (as i do sospan fach) as I was taught it in school. As ive said i've never sang GSTQ, and i thought it was the English anthem so would have never bothered to learn it.

Why not?
The vast majority of Welsh sing it on Lions tours with the English. It's normally the Scots and Irish looking rebellious, not the Welsh.

Because I've always seen it as an English anthem, didn't realise it was a British anthem. Besides, I'm an atheist and a Republican so I've still no inclination to learn it, even if I was on a Lions tour

Intotouch wrote:What is a Briton? How is it different to being British? Sorry if this is really ignorant i just never heard that term before.

Isn't Briton a Celtic tribe name? British I guess means natives of the British Isle, my 2c worth from old history lessons, all those many years ago looking out of the classroom windows at the sunshine outside, and the heat haze rising off the sparsly grassed playfields, sounds of cicadas sometimes drowing out the teachers voice.

It's not a tribe name, just a collective term for the natives pre Anglo Saxon invasion I believe. The Romans named the Island Britannia.

I prefer the lyrics to God save the King

My major problem with all this is that we (England) seem to be given the choice between a collection of dirges either supporting the Queen/Monarchy or God. There's a significant number of us who aren't hot on either.

GSTQ is a dirge. Awful, irrelevant tosh. Jerusalem is God bothering nonsense
. Land of Hope and Glory is just too...jaunty. This is a problem i have with the anthems of France and Italy. Ok it needs to be uplifting, but i think you can do stirring with a hint of menance without the parping brass section.

No idea what the Welsh are singing but i like it, it seems to have a nice tempo and rises and falls well. Probably the best of the 6 Nations lot. Followed by Ireland's Call.

I would genuinely be happy with us creating a new one. We're celebrating a country, not a Queen and not God. That should be reflected in our anthem. It might be nice to have something that can genuinely unite English people of all backgrounds and isn't tainted by jingoism. Sorry, came across a bit 'heal the world' there but you get my point. GSTQ makes us sound like a terribly regressive and unattractive place.

Could be worse i suppose. Australia's is exactly as bad as i'd expect from the land who gave us Savage Garden. No offence, but at least get the syllables right. Ad-vance Au-Stra-Li-A would have worked fine Ad-vance Au-Stra-Lia Fair...doesn't. Should have gone with Waltzing Matilda Skip!