The English / British anthem query?

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Why do English teams only sing the first verse of Gad save the Queen? Any known reason why they dont sing verses 2 and 3?

I don't know how true that is. Most of the time when they film someone in the crowd they just wave at themselves on the big screen!

I actually wish they wouldn't film random people in the crowd. I'd rather watch the players singing the anthem than Mrs Davies from Pyle.

I think some people seem to forget that the other nations deliberately chose not to sing GSTQ. The English haven't deliberately chosen to sing. If you don't like that and you're not English...tough, it's got nothing to do with you.

If you don't really care for GSTQ then don't sing it and petition your MP to have it changed to something else. I personally hate it as I don't care for the monarchy and I'm not religious. But I also don't care for anthems so it doesn't really bother me. However the monarch is suppose to be an anthropomorphic representation of the country. I doesn't need to mean the queen even if it's talking about her.

I'd much prefer an English Parliament before and English national anthem. By this I mean get rid of the Welsh Assembly, etc and just have the Welsh MP vote of Welsh education, health, etc and then all get together in Westminster for the now devolved issues.

Also don't put you own ideas of "passion" onto other people.

All opinions are of course welcome. These are just mine

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

welshy824 wrote:i dislike it as there is no passion, i mean you rarely see an englishman singing the english anthem with tears in their eyes yet you often see this with other anthems.

How new to rugby are you? You clearly never watched Lawrence Dallaglio singing the anthem, nor Jon Sleightholme clutching the red rose on his jersey.

He said "rarely." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ6-bYixpYE

the english anthem is about a person, who many english people dont actually like, whereas the welsh anthem is about wales as a land and its history etc

I think that sums it up perfectly.

Any truth in the widely spread rumour that England are adding a new verse to the national anthem, along the lines of the AB's new Haka, the SA anthem from 1995?

"God pay our transfer fees,
Long live our global team,
God help our team.
To be victorious
W'ell take Hape, Pretorious
Paul-Doran Jones for us.
God save our team"

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Yes its the de facto anthem of the UK, but wasn't chosen by the celtic nations it was chosen by the English, sung about an English queen, and written by an English man, and then decided by an English Parliment that it should be the anthem for Britain/UK and hence why it's the English national anthem as well as the UK national anthem.

It would be impossible to claim it was written by an English man as it is of unknown authorship. It is however thought to be originally derived from an old Scottish carol with considerable influence in its current form from a French composer. It was first sung for George II, but first became an official anthem during the reign of the rather mixed British heritaged Bonnie Prince Charlie, though its official status has never been established by parliament. With it being the first ever national anthem it has been modified and used by a number of other European nations for use as their anthem over the years.

Given she's directly descended from the house of Stuart and can trace her heritage to Irish royal bloodlines, not to mention the sizeable Danish & German parts of her family, you'd be struggling to legitimately claim she is just an "English queen".

No but to be fair the English anrent as intensley nationalistic as the Welsh for example. We dont tend to define ourselves so tightly by some half imagined racial identity, or those that do spend their time spitting at muslims and going to the soccer instead of rugby.
The Welsh of course are massively proud of their strong self identity and how that is tied to rugby and their culture, which is why they sell so many Liverpool FC shirts there.

johnpartle wrote:
Given she's directly descended from the house of Stuart and can trace her heritage to Irish royal bloodlines, not to mention the sizeable Danish & German parts of her family, you'd be struggling to legitimately claim she is just an "English queen".

Its more legitimate than Rikki Fluteys claim

That depends on how much Rikki likes impersonating Quentin Crisp whilst taking tea and how wholly English his grandfather was.

Johnpartie,
are you suggesting Her Majesty suit up for England?

She's doing tackle practice with Tindall as we speak. I see her in the same mould as Neil Back. She plays the ref superbly as well. A bit prone to gouging though.

Unfortunately she'll be ineligible because of the law around royals visiting a country about to hold an election.

Kind of ironic isn't it? Queen can't but half a dozen kiwis can happily play for England.

Ah Johnpartle,
You have a keen eye for assessing talent Most people would have missed the gouging..........

TheGreyGhost wrote:Any truth in the widely spread rumour that England are adding a new verse to the national anthem, along the lines of the AB's new Haka, the SA anthem from 1995?

"God pay our transfer fees,
Long live our global team,
God help our team.
To be victorious
W'ell take Hape, Pretorious
Paul-Doran Jones for us.
God save our team"

That's quite funny GG.

There isn't an actual law against royalty visiting, they've just historically chosen not to to avoid showing favour.

The bigger issue would be her management of the words to GSTQ.

I loved watching Robbie Renwick win a swimming gold for Scotland at the last Commonwealth games. While singing Flower of Scotland, he reached the point where one (Never ever me, ahem, of course) will shout out "Ba$+@®ds!!", proceeded to do so, and then realised he was on national television.

His face was a mixture of embarrassment and a sort of "yeah, I totally just did that!" mirth. T'was awesome.

Breadvan wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:Any truth in the widely spread rumour that England are adding a new verse to the national anthem, along the lines of the AB's new Haka, the SA anthem from 1995?

"God pay our transfer fees,
Long live our global team,
God help our team.
To be victorious
W'ell take Hape, Pretorious
Paul-Doran Jones for us.
God save our team"

That's quite funny GG.

To be fair I thought it funny too and it brought a smile to my face, even if your underlying message has been done to death.

Yeah that was pretty well done by GG. Did it take long?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Hood83, bear in mind that that's not a literal translation of 'Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.' The opening line, for example, translates as 'the land of my fathers is dear to me.'

Let's not forget that the Celts are no more native to these islands than the Anglo-Saxons. We just moved in earlier than they did.

Ohhhhhhh LP if it were that simple.

Pop over to NZ and explain that to the Maori.....you could win a Nobel Prize.

Why would the Maori care about the migrations of peoples to Britain?

Ghost, why, when the English team is so full of foreign players, did you include a player born in England, grew up in England, went to Uni in Ireland, and then moved back to England?

Also there are no 'official' verses so we can add what we want :run1:

HammerofThunor wrote:Why would the Maori care about the migrations of peoples to Britain?

Again, ask Rikki Flutey

And Robbie Paul and Shontayne Hape

Anyone got an e-mail address?

welshjohn369 wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Hood83, bear in mind that that's not a literal translation of 'Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.' The opening line, for example, translates as 'the land of my fathers is dear to me.'

Let's not forget that the Celts are no more native to these islands than the Anglo-Saxons. We just moved in earlier than they did.

Ohhhhhhh LP if it were that simple.

Pop over to NZ and explain that to the Maori.....you could win a Nobel Prize.

Sorry but I don't follow.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

welshjohn369 wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Hood83, bear in mind that that's not a literal translation of 'Hen Wlad fy Nhadau.' The opening line, for example, translates as 'the land of my fathers is dear to me.'

Let's not forget that the Celts are no more native to these islands than the Anglo-Saxons. We just moved in earlier than they did.

Ohhhhhhh LP if it were that simple.

Pop over to NZ and explain that to the Maori.....you could win a Nobel Prize.

Sorry but I don't follow.

Well Maori got to NZ centuries before the english. The Britons were in Briton centuries before the anglo saxons and the rest.

It matter to many people it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

welshjohn369 wrote: it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

That's an astonishing thing to say. Not to mention untrue.

welshjohn369 wrote:It matter to many people it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

Really? Care to elaborate on this?

It matter to many people it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

woohoo - if ignorence is bliss we are looking at an ecstatic Welshjohn.

I see your point welshy. Because the England teams use GSTQ i can see how others may associate it more with us. If we had our own anthem it might even make GSTQ more inclusive to the rest of the UK. I hadn't even considered that!

TrailApe wrote:

It matter to many people it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

woohoo - if ignorence is bliss we are looking at an ecstatic Welshjohn.

Don't flatter yourself lad.

What you should realise is there are millions like me who enjoy nothing more than watching the english squirm at their sad ability to compete with the rest of the world in most sports (1966 ).

English industry what is there? Not much, you are slaves to the Asian market in cars and electronics and politically you have been grafted to the USA bumhole.

Every nation you went to in your tragic empire days you ruined and when you left you ruined them even more. Don't ask for examples please that would suggest you know nothing of history from the true angle rather than the rudey poo the english education system rammed down everyones throat for over a century.

At the end of the day, england is a small country in europe, nothing great about it apart from the fact that more languages are spoken there than the rest of europe

If you knew the slightest thing about history you'd know that it was a British Empire, not an English one. And if you genuinely believe what you say about the Empire's achievements, then you really are deluded.

welshjohn369 wrote:

TrailApe wrote:

It matter to many people it's a matter of identity and cultural pride, something the english have none of:)

woohoo - if ignorence is bliss we are looking at an ecstatic Welshjohn.

Don't flatter yourself lad.

What you should realise is there are millions like me who enjoy nothing more than watching the english squirm at their sad ability to compete with the rest of the world in most sports (1966 ).

English industry what is there? Not much, you are slaves to the Asian market in cars and electronics and politically you have been grafted to the USA bumhole.

Every nation you went to in your tragic empire days you ruined and when you left you ruined them even more. Don't ask for examples please that would suggest you know nothing of history from the true angle rather than the rudey poo the english education system rammed down everyones throat for over a century.

At the end of the day, england is a small country in europe, nothing great about it apart from the fact that more languages are spoken there than the rest of europe

Nice to see you being honest. Doesn't it feel good to get it off your chest?

I don't get how he was "flattering himself". He suggested you were ignorant, not sure how that flatters him.

[quote="luckless_pedestrian"][quote="welshjohn369"] Every nation you went to in your tragic empire days you ruined and when you left you ruined them even more. Don't ask for examples please that would suggest you know nothing of history from the true angle rather than the rudey poo the english education system rammed down everyones throat for over a century.

If you knew the slightest thing about history you'd know that it was a British Empire, not an English one. And if you genuinely believe what you say about the Empire's achievements, then you really are deluded.

India, New Zealand, Israel.

It was the english empire as well you know.

You tell me what they exactly did in the countries they invaded? ............. which was good.

Chill all, there's a few of you on this thread getting close to personal abuse. Keep those comments for the subject matter, and please cut out on the sweeping generalisations about nationalities

Good grief. It was the BRITISH Empire. That's England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland (at the time of Empire). All nations were involved, for better or worse.

You've named three countries. Why?

Well thats just great,someone questions another nations pride and level of culture ,and the ref comes in gives a warning that its getting close to abuse.
This morning evryone was saying what terrible low down cheats us Kiwis are/were and not a peep.........

Last post as it seems the indications are being taken from the school taught history books of england.

1. Wales (if it was not for some who fought for it) did in reality not exsist, it was absorbed into england. I am sure you knew this didn't you??

2. Many (the majority) of Welsh etc were forced into the Navy / Army of england during these times. Again I am sure you knew this.

3. As for the three countries I mention, I am sure you can work it out if you know so much about your history (I could mention thet Welshman born in Manchester who was Prime Minister who did the same in Ireland).

Oh and tell me why would cultures go cap in hand to westminster and have laws passed that made it illegal to read, talk and teach their own languages.

Not me who is ignorant or lacking in my history .....just understand it from a different angle.

Bye lads god save your queen, not like he's got anything better to do

aucklandlaurie wrote: Well thats just great,someone questions another nations pride and level of culture ,and the ref comes in gives a warning that its getting close to abuse.
This morning evryone was saying what terrible low down cheats us Kiwis are/were and not a peep.........

You can't argue with the truth

welshjohn, I'm Welsh. I know all about 1536 and the Welsh Not. And knowing that some pretty lousy things were done in the name of Empire doesn't compel me to deny the many benefits it brought - including, in India, the introduction of English.

welshjohn369 wrote:Every nation you went to in your tragic empire days you ruined and when you left you ruined them even more. Don't ask for examples please that would suggest you know nothing of history from the true angle rather than the rudey poo the english education system rammed down everyones throat for over a century.

Anyone ever seen Zulu? Correct me if I'm wrong but at the end of the Film those English lads belting our Men of Harlech really stir my spirits!

Oh wait did I say English?

My Mistake! Soldiers from Wales, Scotland, England and Ireland fought for Britain during the colonial days. It is Important to add that The british Empire was not the only colonial power. France, Spain, Portugal, Holland and Italy all had colonial and emperical ambitions as did Nazi Germany. Just because the British Empire was the largest and most powerful it seems we are singled out for blame more than others which is perhaps unfair. The good thing to come out of WW2 is the fact that it effectivly ended British Colonial rule in many countries.

The British Empire was not exactly our finest hour, marching through the Americas, the South Pacific and Africa with guns claiming whatever we liked and daring the technologicaly inferior indigenous people to stop us.Terrible acts by a supposedly a civilized society who to all intents and purposes tried to exterminate entire cultures that were far older than ours.

A dark page from all countries from the UK's history, one that for the sake of everyone who died should never be forgotten.

Mistakes were made in the past, this is why history is studied in the hope that we can learn from these mistakes and try never to repeat them. It seems humanity is forever making new mistakes and as a result true peace may never be attained.

Being English, it isn't that we lack national pride (except for the wendyball team), but that we are understated in how we express it.

I've found the perfect song we should use as an anthem at least for all 6Ns games:

The English
(Flanders & Swan)

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker as likely as not

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

The Scotsman is mean as we're all well aware
He's boney and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And hasn't got bishops to show him the way

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

The Irishman now our contempt is beneath
He sleeps in his boots and he lies through his teeth
He blows up policemen or so I have heard
And blames it on Cromwell and William the Third

The English are moral the English are good
And clever and modest and misunderstood

The Welshman's dishonest, he cheats when he can
He's little and dark more like monkey than man
He works underground with a lamp on his hat
And sings far too loud, far too often and flat

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

And crossing the channel one cannot say much
For the French or the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed

The English are noble, the English are nice
And worth any other at double the price

And all the world over each nation's the same
They've simply no notion of playing the game
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won
And they practice before hand which spoils all the fun

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad
It's just that they're foreign that makes them so mad
The English are all that a nation should be
And the pride of the English are Chipper and me

The English the English the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest

Good stuff that, dummy_half!

Here's a quid....now b**geroff.

Can we have some confirmation of some of that?

Any Irish posters...do you sleep in your boots? What do you sleep in if you don't have boots?

The rest I'm happy with

Particularly like the verse about the Welsh, especially the last line

Could you imagine the Scots belting out 'Flower of Scotland' or the Welsh 'Land of my Fathers' (the latter particularly being a brilliant 'anthem - makes the hairs on the back of your neck go even if you don't understand the words), and then a posh bloke and a piano being wheeled out onto the Twickenham pitch and Sheridan and Dan Cole singing that? would be hilarious.

My next suggestion is a Morris Dancing routine as response to the Haka - preferably a full contact Morris where we can crack open the heads of McCaw and Carter before the game - after all, we need all the help we can get against them

Anyone ever seen Zulu? Correct me if I'm wrong but at the end of the Film those English lads belting our Men of Harlech really stir my spirits!

Oh wait did I say English?

Zulu!! The 24th Regt of Foot was more english than Welsh and most DEFINATELY all the officers would have been english.

I will let you into a secret......there are more factual events in Star wars than in Zulu!

Dummy half you brilliant bar stid...

welshjohn369 wrote:
I will let you into a secret......there are more factual events in Star wars than in Zulu!

Do you really want me to go down the route of disproving that statement?

Some of what you say is true, the officers were mostly born in England and Bromhead was born in France. But the 24th regiment of foot was broken down like this :

48 English
32 Welsh
16 Irish
22 others of indeterminate nationality

11 Victoria Crosses were awareded, 6 of them to Welshmen

Simple fact is there was no English Empire. It was a British Empire. End of.

Well even in the small detachment that was at the Drift you can see thet the WELSH Regiment had more english as it was also the 2 Warwickshire regt!!! You were disproving what???

You do know that this was not the ENTIRE 24th of Foot don't you. Oh and please do not quote wikipoopoo at me either.

FFS just leave it. This supposed to be a rugby forum. It was this kind of shoite that ruined BBC 606.