Haye does not deserve a fight with Vitali

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 2:20 pm

There has been some talk of a possible rematch or even a fight against Vitali - I say NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I repeat, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Let me be clear; NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not in a million month of sundays,

Not until all of hell has frozen over, and even then, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not if every pig in every pig farm, as well as all the wild boars in the world, sprouted wings and flew over a blue moon, each day until the end of time, should there ever be such a non-contest.

It would be a crime against humanity for the paying public to be subjected to this circus yet again.

A knight needs to earn his spurs.

Haye did not even deserve a fight against Wlad, it was only his big mouth and insufferable antics which conned the boxing public into thinking it would be a viable contest.

He has been shown up up to be a complete charlatan - every bit as delusional as Fraudley 'A-Farce' Harrison, albeit at least Harrison comes across as deluded but nice.

Haye claimed that he would breathe life into the HW division - he still asserts that his putrid challenge did just that.

What nerve the man has!

He said he would KTFO Wlad, yet he spent most of the night crawling around on the floor.

And now, he is still has the gall to make excuse after excuse: my little toe hurt (boo hoo), the crowd pushed me (they should have punched you), the Klitchko's played mind games in the build up (let's all have a group cry).

He tried every measley, weasley little mind game he could think of to take Wlad out of his comfort zone, and then has the audacity to blame the brother's for the same!

But he FAILED. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaallelujaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

He does not deserve another big payday,

For too long these gangsters and fraudsters have been milking us for our hard earned cash.

In any case, Vitali wouldn't be as gentlemanly as his brother.

emancipator - hell hath no fury like a boxing fan scorned

furious

by **Fists of Fury** Mon 04 Jul 2011, 2:26 pm

I'd sure like some of whatever it is you're smoking, Emancipator!

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 2:27 pm

Just telling it how it is bud

Very Happy

by captain carrantuohil Mon 04 Jul 2011, 2:42 pm

Mad as a March hare, but, on this occasion, disturbingly enough, you're quite right. Haye doesn't have the right to another immediate shot at any of the belts. The claim that he is the biggest box-office draw among the top 10 heavyweights is now debatable, following the one-sided nature of the fight on Saturday, and shouldn't make a difference in any case. Let Haye earn his next tilt at a title.

by Strongback Mon 04 Jul 2011, 3:28 pm

It would be good to pit Haye against some of the "fat useless bums" that also lost badly to Wlad.

Does Haye easily dispatch Chambers, Chagaev, Arreola?

Povetkin maybe?

There aren't that many fights out there for Haye that will generate interest. There's no guarantees he can win these fights either.

A fight against the winner of Fury and Chirosa could sell well in the UK. It would also be for belts.

by lightsout Mon 04 Jul 2011, 3:40 pm

The best thing that faker can do is hope is agent can get him a few bit parts in Holby City or East Enders etc etc as that's the closest he's getting to Hollywood fame, although I reckon Phil Mithchell would take him out.....also....do I feel sorry for all those plonkers who actually went out there and paid through the nose to watch the fight based on a load of name calling and other stupidness....hell no....

by JACKMAGIC Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:00 pm

lightsout wrote:The best thing that faker can do is hope is agent can get him a few bit parts in Holby City or East Enders etc etc as that's the closest he's getting to Hollywood fame, although I reckon Phil Mithchell would take him out.....also....do I feel sorry for all those plonkers who actually went out there and paid through the nose to watch the fight based on a load of name calling and other stupidness....hell no....

Personally mate, I paid through the nose not because of the name calling but because Haye was a unified champ at cruiserweight who seemed to harbour a genuine desire to be a unified heavy weight world champ and definitely had the tools to cause Wlad problems. Having watched the fight I still believe this to be the case. He just needed to get on the offensive more.

Further more I enjoyed the trash talk from Haye. I don't belive for one second that he is abnything like the character he portrays in the build up to fights - it's all to generate interest, and regardless of the flack he may be getting now, he stirred up more interest than either of the Klits ever could and they both know that. If there was a re-match and that is a genuine 'If', I would pay to watch that too.

But i'm just a plonker at heart!

by **Fists of Fury** Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:10 pm

Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

by Knowsit17 Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:10 pm

He doesn't deserve it but with the HW division the way it currently is and as a result of Haye's verbal jabs targetting both brothers I get the feeling Vitali will fight him anyway, if he comes away from Adamek with a positive result that is.

That way, both Klitschkos can boast having had their way with him. Not much different to passing around a joint: you share, you don't bogart, especially between bros.

Strictly hypothetically, if Haye somehow shocks Vitali that opens the door to one hell of an interesting finale.

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:15 pm

Jack,

all I can say is:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

MORE FOOL YOU

by captain carrantuohil Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:16 pm

Funny to see that old phrase "to bogart" on these boards. It certainly isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that Vitali will also want to administer his share of punishment on Haye for all the insults that the Englishman has hurled in the direction of team Klitschko. Doesn't make it fair that Haye should queue-jump, of course.

by JACKMAGIC Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:20 pm

emancipator wrote:Jack,

all I can say is:

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

MORE FOOL YOU

Quality post mate - keep it up. Whistle

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:21 pm

emancipator at your service

Smile

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:24 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Funny to see that old phrase "to bogart" on these boards. It certainly isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that Vitali will also want to administer his share of punishment on Haye for all the insults that the Englishman has hurled in the direction of team Klitschko. Doesn't make it fair that Haye should queue-jump, of course.

Now there's a heart warming thought,

I may have to change my mind, after all, it could be quite entertaining watching Haye get smacked pillar to post for 12 rounds before getting KTFO.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah baby,

bring it on. Yahoo

by Duncan Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:25 pm

I think a rematch is probably as attractive an option as any other potential Klit opponent, so either we all just give up on Heavyweight boxing entirely or deludedly start being sucked in Sky’s rematch hype (his toe was broken, the ref cheated him, cue highlights that make the fight appear closer then it was) and book our flights / place bets on the Hayemaker because lots of us will…

Just like Hatton v Pacman.

by JACKMAGIC Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:26 pm

Pleased to meet you and duly noted emancipator. Until our paths cross again - adieu adieu

by Guest Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:34 pm

To be perfectly honest the thought of listening to all that drivel pre-fight hype puts me off any re-match.

These boxers, promoters and Tv stations treat us like idiots, selling us fights that are complete mismatches.

The level of hyperbole and fraudship is nauseating.

I feel as if all these people are just con merchants.

Is it any surprise that the popularity of boxing is at such a low?

by Big Paul Mon 04 Jul 2011, 4:44 pm

Funny enough, I was watching Vitali - Sanders on you tube and I remember thinking how clinical Vitali was, he knew he could KO Sanders at any time but chose to give him a bit of a hiding first.

I reckon if Vitali got Haye in a ring, it would be like watching an autopsy on somebody still alive.

by Duncan Mon 04 Jul 2011, 5:16 pm

emancipator wrote:To be perfectly honest the thought of listening to all that drivel pre-fight hype puts me off any re-match.

These boxers, promoters and Tv stations treat us like idiots, selling us fights that are complete mismatches.

The level of hyperbole and fraudship is nauseating.

I feel as if all these people are just con merchants.

Is it any surprise that the popularity of boxing is at such a low?

I was watching a Ringside before the DeGale v Groves fight and Glen McCory was talking about his biggest rivalries and how the fight hype started with the two fighters calling each other up and amicably agreeing to hype up the fight / animosity as much as possible, to try and squeeze as much money as possible out of the fight.

So I cant help feeling whenever both fighters are earning big money the actual fight is secondary and the fans are just being sold a product by everyone from the TV networks to the promoters and fighters.

by Knowsit17 Mon 04 Jul 2011, 5:31 pm

The fight certainly wasn't second priority for Wlad anyway, outstanding focus and concentration. Still seems genuinely unable to stand Haye also given his post-fight swipes. If anything I'd say the embrace after the scorecards were announced was the show for the fans, in reality there's still plenty of bad blood between the two.

by OasisBFC Mon 04 Jul 2011, 5:34 pm

if Vitali wants to earn good money he'll want haye.
no one else would give him the millions he'll get against Haye.

its the only reason harrison got a chance. money talks.

he earns good money against bums, he earns mega bucks against haye.

by armchairwarrior Mon 04 Jul 2011, 6:08 pm

First....The only thing really in hindsight that Haye did wrong was to hype this fight up to ridiculous proportions...In that he was clearly gambling!

Other than that...what...??

Look at it objectively. He lost...but he didn't actually get "hammered". I watched the fight. Davids actual defence and ability to take a punch was better than most of Wlad's opponents. Wlad didn't nail him with the jab or right hand nearly as much as with other opponents. It's just he was...well over 2 stone lighter, shorter, and smaller reach...and he lost on points because he couldn't reach Wlad to hit him!!

Also..the toe. Sorry, but several of my mates who are boxers said a toe injury can SERIOUSLY mess with your balance...and it did!!...so a valid excuse, but under the circumstances, a very unfortunate context to bring it up!

Why not take on Vitali?

What would happen if he fought really well against Vitali...and didn't get Ko'd, even boxed better as Vitali is older and lost narrowly on points again. Would we ridicule Haye the smaller man for really wanting a challenge - even wlad said post fight that Haye had balls for taking the fight in the first place, no question.

Go for it Haye. You've painted yourself into a corner anyway, so you may as well let the toe heal, and go for it with Vitali.

I would cheer you on for having the balls to really have a go.

by armchairwarrior Mon 04 Jul 2011, 6:14 pm

emancipator wrote:There has been some talk of a possible rematch or even a fight against Vitali - I say NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I repeat, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Let me be clear; NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not in a million month of sundays,

Not until all of hell has frozen over, and even then, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Not if every pig in every pig farm, as well as all the wild boars in the world, sprouted wings and flew over a blue moon, each day until the end of time, should there ever be such a non-contest.

It would be a crime against humanity for the paying public to be subjected to this circus yet again.

Your having a laugh aren't you?

A small man loses to a big man. He doesn't get knocked out, but can't do the job. I have seen MUCH worse boxing matches than this...oh, and by the way of course Haye is a prize xxxx for shooting his mouth off big time and then not delivering...but...it takes two to make a good or bad match . Great defense Wlad had a massive advantage and couldn't finish him off!! why not?

A knight needs to earn his spurs.

Haye did not even deserve a fight against Wlad, it was only his big mouth and insufferable antics which conned the boxing public into thinking it would be a viable contest.

He has been shown up up to be a complete charlatan - every bit as delusional as Fraudley 'A-Farce' Harrison, albeit at least Harrison comes across as deluded but nice.

Haye claimed that he would breathe life into the HW division - he still asserts that his putrid challenge did just that.

What nerve the man has!

He said he would KTFO Wlad, yet he spent most of the night crawling around on the floor.

And now, he is still has the gall to make excuse after excuse: my little toe hurt (boo hoo), the crowd pushed me (they should have punched you), the Klitchko's played mind games in the build up (let's all have a group cry).

He tried every measley, weasley little mind game he could think of to take Wlad out of his comfort zone, and then has the audacity to blame the brother's for the same!

But he FAILED. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaallelujaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

He does not deserve another big payday,

For too long these gangsters and fraudsters have been milking us for our hard earned cash.

In any case, Vitali wouldn't be as gentlemanly as his brother.

emancipator - hell hath no fury like a boxing fan scorned

by manos de piedra Mon 04 Jul 2011, 6:20 pm

I think what irritated people, aside from the trash talk and hype, was the feeling Haye never reall went for it with conviction. Theres just little in there to suggest anything would be different against either brother again.

He might retain the "punchers chance" against Wlad but style wise how can he hope to outpoint him?

If Haye really wanted to fight Vitali and genuinely go for it then of course I would tune in, but think most people feel it would be more of the same and Haye is just looking to survive for another big pay day rather than going to win. Which ironically is what he has been so quick to claim about all of the Klitschkos other opponents.

He gets knocked out by Vitali for my money, who could beat him several different ways and would really go to stop him and dish out the pain.

He has never seemed to keen to face Vitali anyhow and most of his comments seemed geared at a rematch with Wlad rather than his brother.

by **oxring** Mon 04 Jul 2011, 6:27 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

Fists my weren't you duped! Surely the Audley fight implied something of Haye's motives to you?

by bellchees Mon 04 Jul 2011, 6:55 pm

I can't believe the hate Haye is receiving. He went away from home to fight a bigger and better fighter but came up short, no shame in that. People seem to be genuinely offended that Haye had the nerve to talk up his chances and really believe that he could win. People forget that Klitschko was due to fight Derek Chisora before he cancelled that to fight Haye, he has beat everyone else except his brother and so is making his way down to domestic level fighters. If people do not want to see Haye fight either brother who would they rather see a Klitschko in with because I still think Haye is more dangerous than the rest of the field.

I also don't like how people think that the fight was bad for boxing. I had friends who are ordinarily not interested in boxing at all asking me who I thought would win and where they could watch the fight when ordinarily they wouldn't even know that a heavyweight title fight was taking place if it were Klitschko vs Peter or Ibragimov.

Comparing Haye to Audley is just plain crazy as well.

by **oxring** Mon 04 Jul 2011, 11:02 pm

bellchees wrote:I can't believe the hate Haye is receiving. He went away from home to fight a bigger and better fighter but came up short, no shame in that. People seem to be genuinely offended that Haye had the nerve to talk up his chances and really believe that he could win. People forget that Klitschko was due to fight Derek Chisora before he cancelled that to fight Haye, he has beat everyone else except his brother and so is making his way down to domestic level fighters. If people do not want to see Haye fight either brother who would they rather see a Klitschko in with because I still think Haye is more dangerous than the rest of the field.

I also don't like how people think that the fight was bad for boxing. I had friends who are ordinarily not interested in boxing at all asking me who I thought would win and where they could watch the fight when ordinarily they wouldn't even know that a heavyweight title fight was taking place if it were Klitschko vs Peter or Ibragimov.

Comparing Haye to Audley is just plain crazy as well.

I'd happily watch Wlad-Povetkin or Wlad Arreola. Although both would be fights were I would expect Wlad to win - the contender in both cases I would expect to throw some serious leather. Arreola and Povetkin both have reasonable chins so t'would be exciting whilst it lasted.

Alternatively Wlad-Dimitrenko. Dimitrenko has an inside game of sorts - but can be beat up on the inside - but is very good on the inside. Wlad doesn't fight on the inside and there's next to no size advantage.

All those wouldn't have the hype of Haye - but I'd bet they'd catch light easier than Haye-W Klitschko, which was a damp squib.

by armchairwarrior Tue 05 Jul 2011, 12:52 am

Whether Haye "deserves" a fight with Vitali or not is unlikely to be the decider.

With all the countless talent ( not ) rising up in the HW division, and the inevitable publicity this fight would get - no brainer.

Emancipator, One thing. Haye may be many things, but I do not believe he is a fraud or a "complete charlatain". He put in the blood sweat and tears of training for this and prepared as well as anyone could - and please don't forget the countless fat "bodies" that Wlad has fought and yet no one has slagged off as much!

As for being like Audley...or worse - your having a laugh son!...I won't bother to list Haye's achievements to Audleys....have a think about both careers for 1 second, then re- read what you have written..mmmmn

I think David really really believed he could do it, and the most he is actually really guilty of is that he couldn't. Nobody seems to be mentioning either that Wlad for all his advantages couldn't Ko him.

He must accept all the flak, as he alone generated the hype. But don't be fooled by the Klit's disproving attitude. They are loving it! Best payday ever for Wlad....if Wlad and Vitali are REALLY still cross, then, ironically they are the thickies in this. A bad taste t shirt, So what!! no one died. I bet someone seriously on the bread line would be happy to put up with that for 10 million!! The Klits need to get some perspective themselves and understand that all Haye did was bring panto to the table for a laugh! - and Wlad financially benefited from it!! If he can't accept it, he needs to donate a portion of his purse to charity, because some of the money is down to extra interest created in part by that shirt - so he's a hypocrite if he continues to gripe.

by bellchees Tue 05 Jul 2011, 1:15 am

oxring wrote:
bellchees wrote:I can't believe the hate Haye is receiving. He went away from home to fight a bigger and better fighter but came up short, no shame in that. People seem to be genuinely offended that Haye had the nerve to talk up his chances and really believe that he could win. People forget that Klitschko was due to fight Derek Chisora before he cancelled that to fight Haye, he has beat everyone else except his brother and so is making his way down to domestic level fighters. If people do not want to see Haye fight either brother who would they rather see a Klitschko in with because I still think Haye is more dangerous than the rest of the field.

I also don't like how people think that the fight was bad for boxing. I had friends who are ordinarily not interested in boxing at all asking me who I thought would win and where they could watch the fight when ordinarily they wouldn't even know that a heavyweight title fight was taking place if it were Klitschko vs Peter or Ibragimov.

Comparing Haye to Audley is just plain crazy as well.

I'd happily watch Wlad-Povetkin or Wlad Arreola. Although both would be fights were I would expect Wlad to win - the contender in both cases I would expect to throw some serious leather. Arreola and Povetkin both have reasonable chins so t'would be exciting whilst it lasted.

Alternatively Wlad-Dimitrenko. Dimitrenko has an inside game of sorts - but can be beat up on the inside - but is very good on the inside. Wlad doesn't fight on the inside and there's next to no size advantage.

All those wouldn't have the hype of Haye - but I'd bet they'd catch light easier than Haye-W Klitschko, which was a damp squib.

Wlad vs Povetkin is a fight I'd want to see but won't happen at the moment as Teddy Atlas won't let Povetkin near Wlad any time soon, he had a chance and turned it down which was probably a wise move. I've never really seen what others do in Arreola, I just honestly don't think he's very good and if he's not determined enough get into shape for a fight I'm not sure how determined he'll be to take risks and try and get past Wlad's Jab. Also his awful showing against Vitali done him no favours.

Dimitrenko is a fight I didn't consider and he may well be lined up to fight one of the brothers soon but I really don't rate his chances, thinking about it Dimitrenko would be a good fight for Haye if he wants to abandon his retirement date and have another crack at the heavyweights.

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 05 Jul 2011, 9:04 am

oxring wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

Fists my weren't you duped! Surely the Audley fight implied something of Haye's motives to you?

I didn't go in the belief that he would win, Oxy. I had Klitschko all along, and made some money from my mates that had fallen for the hype Smile

I went purely due to the fact that a Brit in a HW unification fight is not something we see very often (and who could turn down the opportunity of a lads weekend in Germany?), and with the feeling that it'd be fantastic if Haye won out there, but that I'd enjoy the experience regardless, and that's exactly how it was, so no regrets on my part.

by Dass Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:05 am

I know what you mean about a weekend in Germany with the lads, I went across for the Valuev fight and to see my friend who lives across just outside Munich. To be honest both those were just excuses to go over for the Weiss beer, the stuff is like nectar.

Going back this year for Oktoberfest this year and can't wait. Very Happy

by **Fists of Fury** Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

Consider me envious, mate. Oktoberfest is something that has been on my radar for some while!

I imagine the Valuev fight atmosphere was brilliant when Haye was announced the winner, I remember cheering at the top of my voice in my front room!

by Dass Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:39 am

Yeah the atmosphere was amazing and it was great to watch a British fighter win a world title, I remember ending up in some Irish bar (there's always one) and crawling in the next morning very drunk at 7am.

Think th best atmosphere I've had at a fighter was Feb past watching the Montiel/Donaire fight in Vegas. Mandalay Bay was filled with about 95% Mexicans screaming, the undercard fight before the main event involved a Mexican taking a beat down but you wouldn't have thought it by the noise. Though when Donaire hit that shot in the 2nd I got some dirty looks for celebrating like a mad man. Very Happy

by rycoys Tue 05 Jul 2011, 9:42 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

exactly how i feel fists and jack , one loss does nt make him a bad boxer , just was nt his night ,

by hogey Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:07 pm

He should stay well away from Vitali, unlike Wladimir who was too scared Haye's power to try to KO him big brother would walk straight through Haye and blow him away just like he did to Herbie Hide.

by Bob Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:09 pm

rycoys wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

exactly how i feel fists and jack , one loss does nt make him a bad boxer , just was nt his night ,

Well, two losses now, but who's counting.

It never will be Haye's night against a top heavy. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

by rycoys Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:28 pm

Bob wrote:
rycoys wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

exactly how i feel fists and jack , one loss does nt make him a bad boxer , just was nt his night ,

Well, two losses now, but who's counting.

It never will be Haye's night against a top heavy. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

i know he lost against thompson as wel i think you know what i mean !! as for he will never beat a top heavy thats rubbish imo , he would stand a good chance against any heavy in the world because of his speed , wlad was just too good , and he just did ent perform to his best on the night ,

by Bob Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:36 pm

rycoys wrote:
Bob wrote:
rycoys wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

exactly how i feel fists and jack , one loss does nt make him a bad boxer , just was nt his night ,

Well, two losses now, but who's counting.

It never will be Haye's night against a top heavy. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

i know he lost against thompson as wel i think you know what i mean !! as for he will never beat a top heavy thats rubbish imo , he would stand a good chance against any heavy in the world because of his speed , wlad was just too good , and he just did ent perform to his best on the night ,

I agree that Wlad didn't perform on the night, but he easily bested Haye.

Haye's speed would cause who fits? Without the necessary nerve or stamina it is a toothless threat. He landed some decent right hands on Wlad, and I don't think it had quite the effect that he had hoped, which is why he went into survival mode.

I may be wrong about Haye, but I rather doubt he will prove me wrong. I doubt he would beat Povetkin, a resurgent Arreloa, or a motivated Solis, but I'll gladly eat my words if he steps up and beats a heavy that isn't shot to pieces.

by manos de piedra Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:42 pm

I think he beats Arreola for sure, but dont know about Povetkin or Solis.

I think what the fight on Saturday showed much more than anything else is that the two brothers are just miles ahead of the competition.

I dont think it equates to Haye being exposed neccessarily in relation to the best of the rest race but I think the honus is on him now to prove it in the ring rather than with words or ppv figures.

by manos de piedra Tue 05 Jul 2011, 10:48 pm

Would also add that I would much rather see Haye in with some of the contenders and think they would be genuinely competitive fights in all liklihood.

The brothers are now too far ahead of the rest to make any match up more than a passing interest at best.

Even if Haye is actually the "third best heavy" I think the gap between him and the contenders is far closer than between him and the Klitschkos.

by Cast a Shadow Tue 05 Jul 2011, 11:15 pm

If and when Haye has a crack at Vitali would probably now come down to whether his team viewed VK as over the hill and approaching shot - as it stands I see no reason why he wouldn't do a Hide on the Hayemaker as someone else pointed out.

If it's about making money, a fight with the winner of the current domestic battle would earn a few spots and get Haye back on the winning streak in all likelihood. Then onto a couple of guys in the top ten and see how he comes out the other side of that...

Unless Audley is clamouring for a rematch? Ha!!

http://outspokenrabbit.blogspot.com/

by **oxring** Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:32 pm

Haye hasn't called Vitali out at all really. Its interesting to note - given that Haye's been calling Wlad out almost since he took his first steps. Which hints to me that he doesn't think he can beat Vitali.

And in terms of prime Vitali - I am minded to agree

by rycoys Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:41 pm

Bob wrote:
rycoys wrote:
Bob wrote:
rycoys wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:Good post Jack, I also went to the fight, and feel exactly the same way about it as you.

exactly how i feel fists and jack , one loss does nt make him a bad boxer , just was nt his night ,

Well, two losses now, but who's counting.

It never will be Haye's night against a top heavy. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

i know he lost against thompson as wel i think you know what i mean !! as for he will never beat a top heavy thats rubbish imo , he would stand a good chance against any heavy in the world because of his speed , wlad was just too good , and he just did ent perform to his best on the night ,

I agree that Wlad didn't perform on the night, but he easily bested Haye.

Haye's speed would cause who fits? Without the necessary nerve or stamina it is a toothless threat. He landed some decent right hands on Wlad, and I don't think it had quite the effect that he had hoped, which is why he went into survival mode.

I may be wrong about Haye, but I rather doubt he will prove me wrong. I doubt he would beat Povetkin, a resurgent Arreloa, or a motivated Solis, but I'll gladly eat my words if he steps up and beats a heavy that isn't shot to pieces.

have to agree on that , he does need to now prove he can beat a top heavy and i strongley belive he can , i think his legacey is going to be based on him chasing klit and then under performing , it would be a shame if all he achived before would mean nothing in terms of legacey but i guess he chose that route and only he can change that now !

by Guest Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:51 pm

Surely you mean his 'reputation'?

Legacy is far too grand a word to be associated with Mr Haye.

by coxy0001 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 9:48 pm

emancipator

Sod off back to the tennis boards. For all your bitter and somewhat immature hatred of a guy, based on one fight i might add, for someone who was written off as completely chinny (post Thompson) he's not done too bad having unified the CW division and won a version of a title @ HW.

He's achieved more than an absolute shed load of boxers will ever. Not many can claim to have unified and then jumped up from CW to heavy to claim a title.

I'm not excusing his loss, he got out-fought and out-thought. But your repetitive drivel of negativity is boring and just downright pathetic. You believed the hype, you're acting like a scorned lover - grow up.

by Colonial Lion Wed 06 Jul 2011, 9:52 pm

I dont believe Haye ever in his whole career intended to face Vitali. I think the retirement in October was engineered to give him the reason he wanted not to face Vitali should he have somehow won against Wlad.

Seemed obvious before but even moreso now that Hayes punch output and style was geared to knocking out the supposedly chinny Wlad. I dont think his plan was ever to win on points but rather to throw big singles and hope to land a KO shot. It was exposed badly in its limitations and Haye gave up on winning the fight as soon as it became clear Wlad was not easy to hit, was powerful and could withstand more than Haye believed.

Does he a deserve a match with Vitali? No. Does he want one? I dont think so but if Wlad slams the door on him and Vitali offers him one he may have little option other than accept it or retire. Vitali has a higher punch output, better chin and far more aggressive style than his brother and I also believe he is mentally much more aggressive. With Wlad essentially taking care of Haye in decisive fashion, and given Hayes behaviour towards both brothers I think the only reason he would offer Haye a chance would be to dish out his own punishment and Haye could well be knocked out.

by Guest Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:09 pm

coxy0001 wrote:emancipator

Sod off back to the tennis boards. For all your bitter and somewhat immature hatred of a guy, based on one fight i might add, for someone who was written off as completely chinny (post Thompson) he's not done too bad having unified the CW division and won a version of a title @ HW.

He's achieved more than an absolute shed load of boxers will ever. Not many can claim to have unified and then jumped up from CW to heavy to claim a title.

I'm not excusing his loss, he got out-fought and out-thought. But your repetitive drivel of negativity is boring and just downright pathetic. You believed the hype, you're acting like a scorned lover - grow up.

I think your being a little bit too aggressive.

After all this is a forum for voicing opinions.

I haven't denied you your right to voice yours, I don't think you should deny me mine.

Besides it would see that the majority of posters post-fight were actually agreeing with my sentiments.

In any case, I'm not looking for a fight.

Hug

by coxy0001 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:11 pm

Colonial

Now the aftermath of toy throwing has calmed down, they've come out and said that Wlad would simply not let Haye execute his gameplan which was to fight in bursts and in 2 waves of attack.

He quite simply got shut off at the first wave. Were the tactics right to launch waves of attacks? For me no, it had to be sustained pressure as Wlad throws jack going backwards - again it raises questions about his stamina as if he had the workrate of say Hatton things could've been different.

As it is he couldn't find the gaps and the key to Wlad's defense. A message to anyone who's never boxed - once you can't even get your initial punches off because you're eating leather you instantly doubt what you're doing, unless of course the gameplan is to absorb punches and let him gas!

Too many don't seem to realise how Wlad completely negated Haye and put in a boring but very effective performance. Haye ate a ram rod of a jab, you can't setup attacks off the back of taking punches from arguably the best jab in boxing today.

by coxy0001 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:17 pm

emancipator wrote:
coxy0001 wrote:emancipator

Sod off back to the tennis boards. For all your bitter and somewhat immature hatred of a guy, based on one fight i might add, for someone who was written off as completely chinny (post Thompson) he's not done too bad having unified the CW division and won a version of a title @ HW.

He's achieved more than an absolute shed load of boxers will ever. Not many can claim to have unified and then jumped up from CW to heavy to claim a title.

I'm not excusing his loss, he got out-fought and out-thought. But your repetitive drivel of negativity is boring and just downright pathetic. You believed the hype, you're acting like a scorned lover - grow up.

I think your being a little bit too aggressive.

After all this is a forum for voicing opinions.

I haven't denied you your right to voice yours, I don't think you should deny me mine.

Besides it would see that the majority of posters post-fight were actually agreeing with my sentiments.

In any case, I'm not looking for a fight.

Apologies, i've been working since 8.30am and it's still going. So, sorry for the cranky nature.

But...

Think most have been harsh, if he hadn't been so vocal would there be the backlash? So why should we condemn Haye to some apparent never has-been because of his mouth than realise he did rather well in his career without endangering anyone's top 100 atg list etc. Which in the grand scheme is still pretty darn good, not sure how many unified champs we've had but i don't think there's been many.

And moving forwards, Arreola is free and would give him a route back to either KBro or maybe a Povetkin fight etc etc.... Feel he has to go to America, fight Arreola (on HBO) and win in style. If he is serious about fighting either bro again he probably needs the allure and backing of HBO AND Sky to substitute for a lack of belt etc. Interestingly enough Schaefer and his matchmakers all said Vitali was the easier proposition as he's less athletic.... Haye would still lose but i'd fancy him to take rounds of him by simply pot shotting then legging it a la Valuev etc

by Colonial Lion Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:39 pm

coxy0001 wrote:Colonial

Now the aftermath of toy throwing has calmed down, they've come out and said that Wlad would simply not let Haye execute his gameplan which was to fight in bursts and in 2 waves of attack.

He quite simply got shut off at the first wave. Were the tactics right to launch waves of attacks? For me no, it had to be sustained pressure as Wlad throws jack going backwards - again it raises questions about his stamina as if he had the workrate of say Hatton things could've been different.

As it is he couldn't find the gaps and the key to Wlad's defense. A message to anyone who's never boxed - once you can't even get your initial punches off because you're eating leather you instantly doubt what you're doing, unless of course the gameplan is to absorb punches and let him gas!

Too many don't seem to realise how Wlad completely negated Haye and put in a boring but very effective performance. Haye ate a ram rod of a jab, you can't setup attacks off the back of taking punches from arguably the best jab in boxing today.

I dont honestly think it was ever Hayes plan to try outbox Wlad. I think he felt all he had to do was land big on Wlad and it would be over. He realized when he got in the ring what the last 10 or so guys have realized and I think he decided to survive and blame his toe with the caveat that Wlad had failed to knock hm out as a tipping point. If he had actually took more risks I feel he would have been knocked out.

In any event I dont think his strategy was particularly bad in the sense that looking to knock Wlad out with a big counter is was theoretically easier than trying to outbox him. But it was limited, and was exposed as such due to a combination of Wlad negating Haye and Haye being able to do nothing about it.

Howeve Haye has to accept that after a few rounds he waved the white flag completely and concentrated on survival. Of course its easy to sit here and say that, but Haye has to remember it was just as easy to for him to criticise the countless others before him who had done the same thing.

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