ULSTER RUGBY 2022/2023 - SEASON RUN IN

First topic message reminder :

Christ on a bike you lot are downbeat for a side that are currently in the top 4 of the league!!

Hendersons arm is indeed broke and he is due to have surgery, honestly his club should just be Ireland now cos he never plays for Ulster.

Tom Stewart has been added to the squad as cover for the hookers, unsure if either will be able to play. Henderson and Ringrose definitely out

neilthom7 wrote:Hendersons arm is indeed broke and he is due to have surgery, honestly his club should just be Ireland now cos he never plays for Ulster.

Tom Stewart has been added to the squad as cover for the hookers, unsure if either will be able to play.  Henderson and Ringrose definitely out

They joke a lot about Hendo on t'other forum, this current injury was met with comments like "right on cue" etc. They do kind of have a point, he wears green as often as he wears white these days. Fingers crossed he can call on his regenerative powers and get back in action pronto. Perhaps get Bestie in to instruct him on fast bone knitting.

He has got really injury prone as the years have went on, you can be guarantee he will miss an extended amount of time each season which is probably why Ulster usually try to have a good few locks on the books.

Maybe this time we pray for him to heal slowly as every other time he has healed fast and been out again a few weeks later, perhaps part of the issue

Amazing to watch Ireland at the weekend. Well set up for the World Cup. But we don't usually respond to well when we are hyped up for World Cup success unfortunately.

Great to see a few Ulster players involved in the grand slam win over England - though disappointingly nobody born in Ulster.

Ulster team to face Vodacom Bulls, Round 16 BKT United Rugby Championship, Saturday 25 March at Kingspan Stadium (KO 7 35pm), live on BBC NI, RTÉ, Viaplay and URC.tv

(15-9) Mike Lowry, Rob Baloucoune, James Hume, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, Nathan Doak;

(1-8) Andy Warwick, Tom Stewart, Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Kieran Treadwell, Sam Carter, David McCann, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen (Captain).

Replacements: John Andrew, Eric O’Sullivan, Gareth Milasinovich, Alan O’Connor, Harry Sheridan, Marcus Rea, John Cooney, Jude Postlethwaite.


So it's a return to the important rugby after all that 6 nations goings on.
Ulster with a very strong side and a bench that doesn't look too shabby.

Ulster have been going with strong bench recently with players that are usually starters there to help with that big issue of closing out games.

Normally AOC and Cooney would have started, and we would have conceded tries in last 10 mins, hope this fix continues to work

Is it me but I've never been fussed on a 6 2 bench split. Especially when you're winger is making a comeback from a hamstring injury. Would have felt more comfortable with another back 3 player on the bench.

Pete330v2 wrote:Ulster with a very strong side and a bench that doesn't look too shabby.

Agreed - chocolate teapot aside

Maine man wrote:Is it me but I've never been fussed on a 6 2 bench split. Especially when you're winger is making a comeback from a hamstring injury. Would have felt more comfortable with another back 3 player on the bench.

The thing is Cooney and Postlewaite cover every position between them except 15 and in that case Moore just drops back.

If a winger was injured either Postlewaite goes to the wing or he goes into the centre, Moore to 15, Lowry to the wing.
My guess is the former is more likely

Bradshaw-Reid appears to be leaving.

The silence on so many players whose contracts are up is unnerving.

Henderson ?, Cooney ?

We need to get some resolution soon. It thought Petrie was Scottish rather than Welsh

geoff999rugby wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:Ulster with a very strong side and a bench that doesn't look too shabby.

Agreed - chocolate teapot aside

I forgot to mention the teapot. Fingers crossed we have no need for him unless it's in the final 5 minutes and we've the game won.

Of those mentioned I'd like Cooney to get another contract, he still has a lot to offer Ulster. Hendo I'm not so sure. I'd love him to remain but bigfoot is seen more than Henderson in an Ulster top. Bigfoot and the Hendersons was not where I was going with that to be honest but here we are.

If Henderson is to go, and I could see why he would, I would hope we would get a high class replacement

carpet baboon wrote:If Henderson is to go, and I could see why he would, I would hope we would get a high class replacement

Prob end up resigning Carter lol

Kingshu wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:If Henderson is to go, and I could see why he would, I would hope we would get a high class replacement

Prob end up resigning Carter lol

As long as it's on a rolling month on month contract so he actually plays well

That was a patchy performance some good some bad.
Play like that against Leinster and we will get slaughtered.

Treadwell never has the same impact as a starter as a replacement
The starting backrow didn't deliver - Vermuelen was missing in action
Doak patchy
Moore and Hume offered nothing in attack and Hume was a whinging prat to boot

Stockdale played his best game back by a country mile
Balacoune looked sharp
Sheridan and Marcus Rea looked sharp when they came on
Sheridan is a monster
Postlewaite looked comfortable
Stewart was outstanding
O'Sullivan improved the scrum when he came on
Toomunga- Allen is a class act

What I would play next week

Sutherland, Herring, Toomunga-Allen
O'Connor, Carter,
Rea, Vermuelen, Timoney
Cooney, Burns
Baloucoune, McCloskey, Marshall, Stockdale
Lowry
Bench: O'Sullivan, Stewart, O'Toole, Treadwell, McCann, Sheridan. Doak, Moore

Found out where Toomunga-Allen lives

Lets just say he is local

carpet baboon wrote:If Henderson is to go, and I could see why he would, I would hope we would get a high class replacement

Would certainly need a replacement of some sort cant go into a season with only

Tredders, AOC, Izzy and Sheridan

Was it just me or did Milasinovich actually play well when he came on?

carpet baboon wrote:Was it just me or did Milasinovich actually play well when he came on?

I'm not sure I would go that far, but he wasn't as poor as in some other games, in my opinion.

Agree with a lot of Geoff's comments. O'Sullivan seems to have re-found some form, Sheridan was particularly noticeable when he came on and Stockdale seemed to make better decisions in defence.

I thought we got the better of some of refereeing decisions and the Bulls were a threat throughout the game. They deserved a LBP in my view.

I watched the Leinster/Stormers game on Friday as well and think we a significantly behind both of those teams.

carpet baboon wrote:Was it just me or did Milasinovich actually play well when he came on?

To be honest he did ok but my guy feeling it was because O'Sullivan was getting the better on the other side which meant he had an easy ride

Unclear wrote:

I watched the Leinster/Stormers game on Friday as well and think we a significantly behind both of those teams.  

Watched it this morning. Agreed. Good to come away with the win against Bulls, but we don’t look on their level!

At present, if Marshall is fit, I'd have starting ahead Hume. Hume has been really poor this season especially defensively. I'd be very tempted to start Postlewaite ahead of him too.

Also agree with with Geoff re Sheridan. Each time I see him, I'm more impressed by him. Got a very bright future. Where do people see him playing? 6 or 2nd row?

Maine man wrote:Also agree with with Geoff re Sheridan. Each time I see him, I'm more impressed by him. Got a very bright future. Where do people see him playing? 6 or 2nd row?

I think much like Hedy he will play a bit of both. As long as it doesn't stop him reaching his potential I say let him for a few years then settle on one

Anyone seen this

"Cape Town – Bulls coach Jake White has warned that the rugby world must avoid copying the diving culture from soccer to get players penalised following a controversial yellow card to Bismarck du Plessis in Saturday night’s 32-23 defeat to Ulster in Belfast."

WTF

Du Plessis has been a thug for a number of years and Jake White is really a piece of low life to suggest Billy Burns was acting after a premeditated assault

geoff999rugby wrote:Anyone seen this

"Cape Town – Bulls coach Jake White has warned that the rugby world must avoid copying the diving culture from soccer to get players penalised following a controversial yellow card to Bismarck du Plessis in Saturday night’s 32-23 defeat to Ulster in Belfast."

WTF

Du Plessis has been a thug for a number of years and Jake White is really a piece of low life to suggest Billy Burns was acting after  a premeditated assault  

I was reading that this morning Geoff along with cries of 'cheats' from some Bulls fans. White is clutching as much at straws as he is at reality with this comments. To feel aggrieved because Du Plessis had a brain fart is fine but aim the grievance at him, not the victim of his stupidity.
The Bulls were well up for it on Saturday and Ulster were very, very rusty which makes the bonus point win even sweeter but White's comments (amongst others) is the cream and cherry on top.

I dont agree with Jake at all but does raise issues we know that exist.

If Burns had got straight back up and into defensive line, or if an away game, would the TMO have picked it up.

geoff999rugby wrote:Anyone seen this

"Cape Town – Bulls coach Jake White has warned that the rugby world must avoid copying the diving culture from soccer to get players penalised following a controversial yellow card to Bismarck du Plessis in Saturday night’s 32-23 defeat to Ulster in Belfast."

WTF

Du Plessis has been a thug for a number of years and Jake White is really a piece of low life to suggest Billy Burns was acting after  a premeditated assault  

You'll like this from Rugby 365, Geoff.

Veteran Springbok hooker Bismarck du Plessis was yellow-carded for a seemingly innocuous clean-out on Ulster flyhalf Billy Burns in the 75th minute.

Just six points (29-23) were separating the teams, with the Bulls pushing hard for a match-winning score.

The yellow card and penalty changed the complexion of the game and another penalty denied the Bulls even a losing bonus point.

Burns had ‘dropped’ to the ground and replays of the clean-out were shown repeatedly on the big screen in the stadium – with Ulster roaring their disapproval, resulting in the match officials taking a closer look

Just to provide a counterpoint, I have to say that the yellow seemed harsh to me. A penalty certainly and as it was for foul play I think it would still be a reversal of the penalty advantage that the Bulls had. The shoulder charge was into the back, not close to the head or neck, and there was at best a very limited attempt to bind. As Burns was standing, attempting to hold the Bulls player up I saw it more as a maul than a ruck and so "clearout" seems an inappropriate description.

These decisions are a bit subjective, and it could have gone either way. Generally best not to enter the lottery of ref/TMO decision making by avoiding the action in the first place.

Its all swings and roundabouts, and I think this one went in our favour, balancing up some contentious issues in the past.

Jake White is playing up to his home audience, perhaps as a distraction from mediocre seasons the Bulls are having. Let's not get caught up in the manufactured hysteria.

Just my view, and everyone else is certainly entitled to theirs.

Jake White is a clown, I wouldn't listen to him, I certainly didn't need the replay on the big screen, saw it immediately as soon as it happened, a cheap shot to a player who couldn't see him coming with no attempt to wrap arms or anything, it's nasty foul play and very much worth of a yellow.

I have questioned Ulsters decision making on a number of ocassions and at the very last penalty all those times came flooding back to me as it looked like they were going to kick it to the corner instead of the posts, thankfully they came to their senses after some help was provided from the crowd but the fact they didn't immediately realise it on their own is worrying.

Reported in the Belfast Telegraph this morning
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/fan-favourite-john-cooney-poised-to-sign-new-deal-with-ulster/1099508952.html
Great news for Ulster. And if he did move, no one would blame him either.

Just to provide a counterpoint, I have to say that the yellow seemed harsh to me. A penalty certainly and as it was for foul play I think it would still be a reversal of the penalty advantage that the Bulls had. The shoulder charge was into the back, not close to the head or neck, and there was at best a very limited attempt to bind. As Burns was standing, attempting to hold the Bulls player up I saw it more as a maul than a ruck and so "clearout" seems an inappropriate description.

I'd agree re: penalty only but the laws state that the sanction for a reckless action like that is a yellow or red. It was very close to Burns' neck and was with a lot of force (the law states there does not need to be head or neck contact), also probably due to the positioning etc Du Plessis' right arm was tucked. Any player would have gone down from a dangerous hit like that let alone an out half being hit by a large mass of a forward so Jake White is indeed a complete clown (along with loads of Bulls fans) for suggesting Burns have taken a footy style dive. The TMO was 100% correct to intervene and the multiple replays on the screen were also IMO justified.

Maine man wrote:Reported in the Belfast Telegraph this morning
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/rugby/ulster-rugby/fan-favourite-john-cooney-poised-to-sign-new-deal-with-ulster/1099508952.html
Great news for Ulster. And if he did move, no one would blame him either.

It's fabulous news isn't it, John is an absolute diamond of a professional both on and off the pitch. Nobody would blame him for taking an offer elsewhere with the way the IRFU selector Mr Sexton has black balled him so his loyalty to Ulster is well appreciated by all the fans.

Du Plessis indulged in a cheap,unnecessary, shot that was why it was yellow.

As an aside Burns had soreness in his neck after the game - maybe he faked that too

Great if true about Cooney - with Madigan going and Flannery uncertain Cooney could be covering 10 as well as 9 next year

Doak was an exciting development last year, and whilst still very promising, there’s no doubt that Cooney has an abundance of experience, leadership and an almost stoic approach to the game. I just feel more confident/comfortable when I see him on the pitch. And I think the players around him feel that too.

Great if he stays!

clivemcl wrote:Doak was an exciting development last year, and whilst still very promising, there’s no doubt that Cooney has an abundance of experience, leadership and an almost stoic approach to the game. I just feel more confident/comfortable when I see him on the pitch. And I think the players around him feel that too.

Great if he stays!

Maybe it's just me and negativity I have in my DNA but I feel Doak has become something of a vanity project. If Cooney is indeed staying I'd like to see him being given back full control of the 9 shirt and force Doak to fight for it.
Lets just say I have reservations about Doaks game that I don't have with Cooney's.

Either way, having two players available for a shirt of the quality of Doak and Cooney should be the expectation/norm, not a luxury. Unfortunately we have a few positions where we still fall short on that - out-half being one.

clivemcl wrote:Either way, having two players available for a shirt of the quality of Doak and Cooney should be the expectation/norm, not a luxury. Unfortunately we have a few positions where we still fall short on that - out-half being one.

Out half is a huge worry. Flannery was brought in and has hardly been utilised despite Burns playing through injuries which will eventually break the guy. Doak and Cooney shouldn't have to be the squares being shoved into round holes when an out and out 10 is what's required. We'll have a really good pack next season with back rows coming out our posterior. Our backline will be, as is the case now, brimming with talent and potential but the link between the 2 is threadbare. There must be a 10 worth stealing from someone somewhere that will actually get their kit dirty.

Wouldn't you love to hear candidly the thoughts and private discussions of some re Flannery.
Is Flannery annoyed?
Does McFarland think he is dung?
Do Munster and Ireland coaches think McFarland is an idiot for not using him?
Did Munster let him go because they also felt he wasn't up to much?

Unfortunately, looking to scoop another Irish out-half could be difficult, as any young fringe/squad out-half at the other provinces would fear being overlooked and unused like Flannery has been if they were to accept an offer to go to Ulster.

Ultimately, it doesn't say much when you can't get a look in ahead of an out-half (Burns) who is arguably 5th or 6th choice for Ireland.

That's the most important point Clive. Nobody will want to come to Ulster to carry the water on match days.
Flannery had been thought of very highly by the Munster faithful but Dan must have thought much less of him. I can't get my head around it to be honest.

Anyway, what about this coming weekend, is it time to get excited yet or filled with dread? Can we beat the GS champs in their home ground? Can we beat the worlds No.1 side without their talismanic Munster and Connacht pair of players?
For me it's dread

Taking my boys down. Last time I saw Ulster in a big stadium was also Leinster - that time it was Twickers in the 2012 final. I would settle for losing less than 42-14 on this occasion. I just want to see us at least make it difficult for them.

Simply cannot see us winning. It would have to be the best performance from Ulster for years to achieve that. Hate to be so pessimistic, but I just don't see it.

clivemcl wrote:Taking my boys down. Last time I saw Ulster in a big stadium was also Leinster - that time it was Twickers in the 2012 final. I would settle for losing less than 42-14 on this occasion. I just want to see us at least make it difficult for them.

Simply cannot see us winning. It would have to be the best performance from Ulster for years to achieve that. Hate to be so pessimistic, but I just don't see it.

It looks like being a sell out and regardless of the scoreline it'll be a great day out for you and your lads Clive. I agree with you, as long as we can give them a game of it which I think we can but a win seems too much to hope for.

Leinster 23:

15. Hugo Keenan (51), 14. Jordan Larmour (86), 13. Jimmy O’Brien (66), 12. Robbie Henshaw (73), 11. James Lowe (69), 10. Ross Byrne (143), 9. Jamison Gibson-Park (122), 1. Andrew Porter (103), 2. Dan Sheehan (41), 3. Tadhg Furlong (129), 4. Ross Molony (158), 5. James Ryan (69) CAPTAIN, 6. Ryan Baird (48), 7. Josh van der Flier (124), 8. Jack Conan (127)

16. John McKee (15), 17. Cian Healy (259), 18. Michael Ala’alatoa (42), 19. Jason Jenkins (12), 20. Scott Penny (53), 21. Luke McGrath (190), 22. Harry Byrne (46), 23. Ciarán Frawley (62)

Ulster team to play Leinster, Heineken Champions Cup Round of 16, Saturday 1 April at Aviva Stadium (KO 5 30pm), live on BT Sport:

(15-9) Michael Lowry, Rob Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, Nathan Doak;

(1-8) Rory Sutherland, Rob Herring, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor (Captain), Kieran Treadwell, Dave McCann, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Tom Stewart, Eric O’Sullivan, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Harry Sheridan, Marcus Rea, John Cooney, Stewart Moore, Ben Moxham

Hmmmmm, I expected a 6/2 split from Ulster for this but there's no complaints about that selection. I've had reservations about Moxham in the past but he's allayed my fears in recent times.
That Leinster/Ireland side looks very weak, not many decent players picked at all, very beatable. In my dreams but hey, that Ulster selection can give them a run for their money IF IF IF IF they can give their very best from 1 - 23 for the full 80. I'm not hopeful but very excited.

You can't say either side appears to be taking this lightly, 2 pretty much full strength sides. As you would hope for in an inter-provincial game in any competition. I would really like to say I fancied our chances, but as somebody said above, anything better than the 2012 score in the Final at Twickenham would do me.

Leinster do seem a cut above at the moment, but its sport and anything could happen on the day ....

Unclear wrote:You can't say either side appears to be taking this lightly, 2 pretty much full strength sides.  As you would hope for in an inter-provincial game in any competition.  I would really like to say I fancied our chances, but as somebody said above, anything better than the 2012 score in the Final at Twickenham would do me.

Leinster do seem a cut above at the moment, but its sport and anything could happen on the day ....

It all depends on how the Leinster lads return after their drinking session last week. I think it'll be close like in 2019.

It's great to see a sellout, should be a cracking atmosphere.

I haven't yet watched the match back on tv, so I'm reluctant to comment too much.

My initial thoughts are - game turned on the Gibson-Park tray which is unfortunate really because it came about from a Leinster mistake. That said, I do think the attempted tackle on him shot up too fast and was easily side stepped. Not sure who that was.

Other critical moments were Ulster losing our line outs in key areas where we often score from. What the hell was going on? Not acceptable in a quarter final.

Last comment for now - I don't see ,much wrong with the Hume turnover attempt. I think the ref said he was the tackler and didn't release. I don't think he was the tackler - he may have had a hand on the player as he was tackled - but is that really the same thing?
I think Ulster were lucky to avoid an earlier yellow, and I think Leinster players were pressuring the ref to pull out a card, and it worked.

On the whole, I'm happy we gave them a bit of a battle.