ULSTER RUGBY 2022/2023 - SEASON RUN IN

Christ on a bike you lot are downbeat for a side that are currently in the top 4 of the league!!

One win in 6 and 4 fixtures coming up all of which we may well lose.

The performances have been awful and we only won early in the season because the opposition was so poor.

Not a patch on the performances of last year

With Marty Moore injured and Tom O'Toole away with Ireland and/or injured, we may have no credible Tight Head for those 4 fixtures.

geoff999rugby wrote:Looks like Marty Moore out for the season
Baloucoune has another hamstring injury

I thought as much re: Moore. So sorry for the bloke, he'd definitely put his hand up for a return to the 6 nations and has become one of Ulster's most important linchpins of the squad. Can we get emergency injury cover because big Jeff and Milo aren't going to get us through the season.
Hopefully Baloucoune's hammy isn't too bad, the last thing he needs is less gametime so fingers crossed for a very swift recovery.

The last thing crisis hit Ulster needs is a front row crisis but it's what we find ourselves in. Injury cover please !!!

Oakdene wrote:Christ on a bike you lot are downbeat for a side that are currently in the top 4 of the league!!

It's not a kind fixture list they have upcoming, far from it.

On Marty Moore, yes he was always good in the scrum. I think he struggled a little with fitness before he moved on from Leinster, but early in his career he was very good and probably up there with Furlong. This season I haven't seen as much of him as you have.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Oakdene wrote:Christ on a bike you lot are downbeat for a side that are currently in the top 4 of the league!!

It's not a kind fixture list they have upcoming, far from it.

On Marty Moore, yes he was always good in the scrum. I think he struggled a little with fitness before he moved on from Leinster, but early in his career he was very good and probably up there with Furlong. This season I haven't seen as much of him as you have.

No team have a kind fixture list, earlier this season we had:

Connacht away
Leinster home
Stormers away
Lions away

From memory the last 3 games we had to do without our internationals.

Of course  it evens out but that is kind of the point, as soon as we came up against half way decent opposition we have caved

La Rochelle Away - European Champions
Sale Home - 2nd in the English Premiership
Stormers Home - 2nd in the URC
Sharks Away - its a trip to South Africa with their Internationals playing and not ours (my guess is O'Toole, Herring, Henderson, Timoney and McCloskey could easily be missing)
followed by Glasgow and Cardiff both away is a bit scary when you have lost 5 of your last 6 games

geoff999rugby wrote:Of course  it evens out but that is kind of the point, as soon as we came up against half way decent opposition we have caved

La Rochelle Away
Sale Home
Stormers Home
Sharks Away
followed by Glasgow and Cardiff both away is a bit scary when you have lost 5 of your last 6 games

Sorry but you're talking to a fan of a side who only won 1 of their opening 8 matches so in that position every game is scary!

I think want hurts most Oakdene, is that at the end of last season we believed that if the team pushed on we would be able to challange Leinster, and go into games with them with a genuine chance of beating them, not just hoping we would. But alas we have gone backwards, to not just not challenging Leinster but not even able to beat them with a 19 point headstart and an extra man.

When a team is building and improving, its easy to support them, as last few years at Ulster have, but when a team is going backwards and getting worse game on game, its harder to have the enthusiasm to watch them each week. Instead of looking forward to the la Rochelle game, I'm dreading it.

I think it is not just going backwards, its managerial incompetence, at all levels, which means we are going backwards at a rate of knots.
* Its the mismanagement of some players with genuine skill being mishandled.
* Its the continue damaged being done by our precious school system, from which high quality forwards simply don't emerge - since Rory Best the top Internationals are Henderson and (let me think)... Henderson and ....??. Ferris made it inspite of the school system not because of it
* Its the shameful handling of the Pienaar, Jackson/Olding situations by the IRFU
* It  is the perceived favouritism given to Munster and Leinster over Ulster (In our situation Munster would have a TH by now)
* It is a continued succession of useless CEO's
* It is the taking for granted of Season Ticket holders  - their is no reason to buy a Season Ticket these days. If I hadn't I could have got in for half the price I did to the Zebre game
* It is the incompetent Mount Charles and their untrained bar staff who don't know a beer from a boiled egg (my mate ordered a Heinken and the reply was 'Whats that?')
* Its the ongoing list of over paid show boaters who dont pull their wait - Gibbes, Piatau and Anscombe the drunk come to mind
 

Yes I'm pissed off

That's a fairly damning assessment Geoff.

How big a clearout do you expect?

geoff999rugby wrote:

Yes I'm pissed off

I think there are a lot of pissed off people, but let's stop blaming things that happened years ago or that the Ulster team have no control over (schools rugby) for the moment. The current management took on a sh*t show and turned things round so the organisation isn't a complete embarrassment any more. Unfortunately they don't seem capable of moving things on the next step. Perhaps we could find a positive in that Ulster must look like a good opportunity for someone to take to the next level, perhaps both as CEO and coach. I don't hold McFarland entirely to blame for the current malaise but he obviously needs better support from the coaching team and don't know who has the final say on the make up of that team. If it is him, then it is all his own fault.

I'm also not convinced the long running strategy of bringing a "marquee" player in is what is going to transform things. There are limits to what any individual can do. Pienaar was an all time great, but even he couldn't change things enough. I would hesitate to say it, but I don't think Vermeulen has been worth the money, and I fear the same will be case with Kitshoff. The rest of the squad and the coaching isn't good enough to get the best out of either of them. No matter how good an individual is they need the other 14 (or 22) to play their part as well. Invest the money in coaches and/or Champions Cup level players, and when we are going toe-to-toe with Leinster or the best SA/French/English sides, then look for the marquee signing to take the final step.

I've lived away for too long to be able to make any meaningful comment on the schools situation, but I'm baffled by why it should be different in Ulster compared to the other provinces. I appreciate that Leinster may produce more from just a sheer numbers point of view, but why is Ulster so bad at producing forwards?

The issue with the schools has long since been a problem.

Ulster has not got a huge population to begin with and yet the reliance/funding of the schools programmes rather than working to get clubs in every area with proper coaching etc reduces that even further.

Ulster essentailly bring themselves down to around 4-8 schools that they actively recruit from and most of these are east of the Bann.

That severely limits the options to choose from, leaves you with the one type of player who often are very similar to each other.

Take for example Cookstown, I grew up a few miles outside the town. Cookstown has a rugby club but no youth system and the club itself is in the middle of nowhere not in the town. Genuinely if I told you how to get there you probably still wouldn't be able to find it.

As a young lad if I wanted to play rugby I had to go to Rainey Old Boys in Magherafelt. Now on the way to there I passed 3 GAA clubs, a hockey club and a couple of football clubs. That's only what I passed not considering clubs that were in other directions but still closer.

Then there was school, there was 2 senior schools in Cookstown. 1 didn't have a rugby program at all. The other had a rugby program (of sorts) that was only kept going by the sheer will of one of the PE Teachers who was a rugby referee. He has now left the school so have no clue if it even still runs.

The school was completely focussed on hockey and that rugby team had just enough people to play through U-16's competition. They in fact won several trophies down the years in rugby including the year I was there but there was no rugby in the school after 16.

Despite having maybe 20-25 people turn up to practice that school managed to have enough talent to win trophies but after the age of 16 all those players had no where to go, the school didn't play rugby and there was no club youth team in Cookstown.

All that potential talent was wasted.

Not only that but the Cookstown area has produced several premier league level football players, they regularly commit top members of Tyrones GAA teams, some of the hockey players I went to school with went on to play regularly for Ireland others went on to represent GB in the olympics.

There is clearly the ability for the area to produce athletes who can compete at the highest level of sports and yet there have been zero rugby players from the area who played for Ulster. When you look at what I have said above it's easy to see why.

That's just one area, I'm sure plenty of other places have the exact same story. It's an indiciation of how Ulster are missing out through their own strategies.

Thanks Neil, its 40+ years since I moved away from Norn Iron and the sectarian issue dominated everything then (including my decision to leave as soon as I could). Also I went to a rugby privileged school which "produced" Willie John McBride and David Humphreys so my view my be a little skewed. The school did leave me with a love of watching the game, but no ability or skill in playing it.

I've heard some good things about improved reach into Donegal and Monaghan (that would have been unthinkable in my time in NI), does that strategy need to be extended to the rest of the province to improve the underage club game?

Pot Hale wrote:That's a fairly damning assessment Geoff.

I started reading it and almost thought he was talking about Wales

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:That's a fairly damning assessment Geoff.

I started reading it and almost thought he was talking about Wales

It can always be worse in Wales, after all look what moving to Wales has done to Bradley Roberts hair, once the most glorious in the league

Unclear wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:That's a fairly damning assessment Geoff.

I started reading it and almost thought he was talking about Wales

It can always be worse in Wales, after all look what moving to Wales has done to Bradley Roberts hair, once the most glorious in the league

Haha. I love the guy though. I love how he is living with Rob Evans too, who is also a bit of a character.

Had to split the last thread guys, as it had gone past 20 pages. Tried to split from where it was the most recent discussion points. If you want to make it a bit more jazzy a starting point, I am sure Oakdene or myself can edit it.

RiscaGame wrote:

Unclear wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:That's a fairly damning assessment Geoff.

I started reading it and almost thought he was talking about Wales

It can always be worse in Wales, after all look what moving to Wales has done to Bradley Roberts hair, once the most glorious in the league

Haha. I love the guy though. I love how he is living with Rob Evans too, who is also a bit of a character.

Had to split the last thread guys, as it had gone past 20 pages. Tried to split from where it was the most recent discussion points. If you want to make it a bit more jazzy a starting point, I am sure Oakdene or myself can edit it.

Jesus, there won't be much common sense in that house!!

I think he's really come on as a player (Bradley Roberts), continuing to put his hand up for Wales selection. He offers something different, a good option coming off the bench if Lake or Owens aren't available.

I was a bit disappointed when Roberts left Ulster as he does offer something different besides the hairstyle.

Ulster: Lowry, Lyttle, Moore, Marshall, Stockdale, Madigan, Doak; Rory Sutherland, Herring, Toomaga-Allen, Alan O'Connor, Treadwell, Henderson (Capt), Timoney, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Andrew, O'Sullivan, Warwick, Sheridan, McCann, McDonald, Burns, McIlroy.

La Rochelle: Paiva Lagrange Colombe Reazel, Dillane Picquette, Bourdeau, Boudehent, Alldritt, (capt), Berjoni, Hastoy, Boudehent, Favre, Seuteni, Thomas, Dulin.

Replacements: Lespiaucq, Wardi, Sclavi, Sazy, Hatherell, Kerr-Barlow, Popelin, Rhule.

Glad to see Sheridan and McDonald on the bench

Has "we're doomed" been copyrighted by the Scots? If not, then we'e doomed

Trying to be more up-beat, perhaps the moments of Madigan magic will outweigh the moments of madness. It's a pretty experienced starting pack, good to see Sheridan on the bench and

I'd be happy with a performance of commitment and determination over the 80 minutes. Some level organisation in attack and defence would be good as well.

That selection strikes of a coach who is just trying something in the hope it goes better than it has been.

No Cooney due to 'rotation' according to Ulster, rotation? Against the European champions? Leaving your best scrumhalf at home, it's an interesting strategy.

I strongly suspect this will be a real drubbing tomorrow

Lets just hope McFarland proves us armchair coaches are completely wrong... unfortunately I don't think S*ds Law necessarily works that way.

I thought it was a quiet week on here because I didn’t realised we moved to a new thread. How wrong I was!

Anywho…. Game just ended there… first replay angle of La Rochelle try certainly looked like Moore had his arm under the ball.

I disagreed with Doak kicking for touch on 76th minute. Rory Best said it was ‘wise’.
But both teams seemed determined to make the other team play as possession changed another few times before Warwick coughed up the penalty.

He may well have had fair hands on to begin with, but with only a three point cushion, if you’ve not heard the whistle by the time you come off you’re feet I very much suggest you let go of the ball!

Too many occasions of late where Ulster have chosen stubbornness as if they assume the ref will eventually agree with them.

I’m no mad expert so I expect some to disagree… but… thought Madigan showed well. Plenty of fire and fairly robust/physical. I’d give him more game time off that performance.

How close are we do you think from McFarland being pressured out?
If we lose the next 3/4, could he go?

All things considered I doubt that lose will hurt McFarland's job prospects, many (including me) probably thought this one was a write off and they actaully did much better than people thought.

If they win v Sale at home next week they will make either the champions cup or challenge cup knock outs, that will be a more important one for McFarland's time at Ulster.

Although he ultimately isn't the only one who should be looked at here

I was happily surprised on saturday, a game I wasn't even sure I could bring myself to watch turned out to be a really good battle that was unfortunately lost but the performance was everything. Without the complete cluster surrounding the previous 2 Euro outings, Ulster were able to go toe-to-toe with the heavyweight of europe and come out the other end thinking it was one that should have been won. For me, that in itself is a win.
It comforts me in a time when any comfort's needed so I'm sticking to that.

Also, Ulster signing Ewers from Exeter? That one came out of the blue and is a very astute signing. That's some very dynamic bulk added to the backrow options for next year when Dwayne will be gone. Good business indeed. Now we need the official announcement of the big Saffer to happen.

Hopefully Ulster can go full circle and put up a good performance against Sale next weekend. If they lose this game it might end up knocking their confidence even further.

And given the next 3 games coming up URC that could be a real problem for them. They could end up in 8th or 9th if those games go badly which is crazy given by block 7 of the URC they seemed to be a top4 side all day long.

I'll be honest the reschedule of the Sharks game hasn't done them any favors either. Ireland will have some of their key players and I would imagine Sharks will go full noise on this one. Glasgow away will be really tough as well given Glasgow's home record. So for me the Ulster/Stormers game has become a must win for them. Losing all 3 would put them in a real bad spot for Cardiff and Bulls.

They will still make the top 8 though I think as they have some easier games in the last 2 rounds.

Is DAVE Ewers irish qualified, doesn't make sense if he isn't.

Or it means PSDT has fallen though, maybe because of lost income from the La Rochelle game?

When play Stormers they have a home HCup game v Clermont, away to Ulster and then home v sharks, so fair chance they will send a B team up, Ulster will be without internationals then as well.

Rearranged game V sharks Ulster wont have internationals, but that period is the SA players summer break- they will be playing the Rugby championship while European players have theres, so are not going to have their international players for it either.

Kingshu wrote:Is DAVE Ewers irish qualified, doesn't make sense if he isn't.

Or it means PSDT has fallen though, maybe because of lost income from the La Rochelle game?

When play Stormers they have a home HCup game v Clermont, away to Ulster and then home v sharks, so fair chance they will send a B team up, Ulster will be without internationals then as well.

Rearranged game V sharks Ulster wont have internationals, but that period is the SA players summer break- they will be playing the Rugby championship while European players have theres, so are not going to have their international players for it either.

PSDT may have witnessed the recent cluster* that's happened with Ulster and thought it's not worth moving to Belfast for therefore the Ewers signing has happened. He's NIQ despite strangely not having been capped by England. He's an out and out 6 which leaves us with Timoney at 8 and a PSDT sized slot at 7.

Looks like O'Sullivan leaving
Stockdale to lose his Central Contract
Henderson to retain his

I suspect Stockdale losing his central contract and the £700,000 lose due to the La Rochelle farce
means Du Toit was dropped as too expensive
Ewers will be a lot cheaper.
No way we will get Du Toit and Ewers

So O'Sullivan, Flannery, Madigan, Gilroy, Murphy, Vermuelen, Milanisovich, Carter leaving - maybe more
Cooney yet to be confirmed either way

Looks like Toomunga-Allen will join Kitshoff and Ewers as one of three NIQ


So 2 in 8 out, other than Sheridan cant see any Academy players getting a Full contract
Postlewaite previously confirmed

Very short at Fly Half and only 3 props on either side.
Maybe some IQ players lined up

We really badly need an IQ Fly Half. Flannery going back home and Madigan leaving leaves us threadbare of options. Burns cannot be flogged half to death and needs viable competition for the shirt.
It's a shame about Du Toit but inevitable all the same and we're getting a fantastic signing in Ewers. Does anyone know how long we've signed him? He'll be a fan favourite, I'm predicting it right now.
We'll have 3 NIQ if JTA remains so no room for another unless JTA can be offered a 1 year deal again as a medical joker kind of situation. Obviously the funding is a major factor too but regardless of both factors, we're Ulster so don't usually get the rub of the green when it comes to IRFU decisions. I do think the EPCR should be compensating Ulster at the very least as the ground was playable. Dream on I guess.

Ewers looks like 2 years to me

Where's Eric O'Sullivan off to? Or is he just being dropped?

No idea but him and Cooney seem to be the two remaining contract in doubt

Would it be ridiculous to suggest that we saw Ewers as an opportunity and intentionally ditched Du Toit to use the money elsewhere? An out-half?
Here I go being overly optimistic again.

Must admit, I've not seen much of Ewers but what people are saying all sounds positive.

clivemcl wrote:Would it be ridiculous to suggest that we saw Ewers as an opportunity and intentionally ditched Du Toit to use the money elsewhere? An out-half?
Here I go being overly optimistic again.

Must admit, I've not seen much of Ewers but what people are saying all sounds positive.

It wouldn't be ridiculous at all although the IQ out-halves are few and far between. There is one excellent 10 playing in England who's even got Irish caps but I can't think of any others.

From what I've seen of Ewers I'd say he's a Marcel kind of player, the kind of 'go forward' ball carrier that we're screaming out for. With him we have much less of a need for a player of Du Toit's caliber and I'm sure for a comparative bargain.

A truly awful stat from the other board

Iain Henderson Ireland senior debut, November 2012, over 10 years ago.

Since then 52 forwards have been capped by Ireland, the split by birth as follows:

Outside the island of Ireland - 14no.
Connacht - 2 players
Munster - 12 players
Leinster - 24 players
Ulster - 0 players

geoff999rugby wrote:A truly awful stat from the other board

Iain Henderson Ireland senior debut, November 2012, over 10 years ago.

Since then 52 forwards have been capped by Ireland, the split by birth as follows:

Outside the island of Ireland - 14no.
Connacht - 2 players
Munster - 12 players
Leinster - 24 players
Ulster - 0 players

Thats utterly incredible!!

geoff999rugby wrote:A truly awful stat from the other board

Iain Henderson Ireland senior debut, November 2012, over 10 years ago.

Since then 52 forwards have been capped by Ireland, the split by birth as follows:

Outside the island of Ireland - 14no.
Connacht - 2 players
Munster - 12 players
Leinster - 24 players
Ulster - 0 players

Well... at least we have Tom Stewart - surely he's good for a cap or two based on his trajectory. He's from Ulster, yea? Honestly, we poach them so young these days it's hard to keep track of where they were born!

Pete330v2 wrote:There is one excellent 10 playing in England who's even got Irish caps but I can't think of any others.

The most annoying thing about it all is the news media. It's the same for most 'news'. Most Ulster fans would be glad to have Jackson back. Most non-rugby people wouldn't know if he returned if not for the news media industry.

You just know some 'journalist' would hear the news and be like 'Time to get some drama going - let's get typing!'.

I just wish Ulster could learn to be bold enough to just ignore it all. Sign him back, and then fully ignore all requests for comment.
I feel like Dan McFarland would have that mentality - as would most coaches. Just tell the journalist 'I'm here to talk about Ulster rugby performance and nothing else, next question please'.

Lastly - Stockade losing his central contract - I assume Ulster don't pay him the same as he was getting from IRFU.
I mean... the losing of the central contract is evidence of his deterioration in form. Surely Stockade has to suck it up and accept the consequences of his failure to return to form at this moment.

Of course he could threaten to negotiate with other clubs but still... I hope UR don't let underperforming players dominate them too much in negotiations.

Clive he will definitely be taking a pay cut

Ulster Rugby team to play Sale Sharks, Heineken Champions Cup Round 4, Saturday 21 January at Kingspan Stadium (kick-off 8pm), live on BT Sport:

(15-9): Michael Lowry, Rob Lyttle, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, Nathan Doak;
(1-8): Andy Warwick, Tom Stewart, Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Alan O’Connor (Capt.), Sam Carter, Harry Sheridan, Nick Timoney, Duane Vermeulen.
Replacements: Rob Herring, Eric O’Sullivan, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Jordi Murphy, John Cooney, Ian Madigan, Ben Moxham.

Sale Sharks Starting XV:

15. Joe Carpenter, 14. Tom O’Flaherty, 13. Sam James, 12. Manu Tuilagi, 11. Arron Reed, 10. Rob Du Preez, 9. Gus Warr; 1. Bevan Rodd, 2. Ewan Ashman, 3. James Harper, 4. Josh Beaumont, 5. Jonny Hill, 6. Jono Ross, 7. Ben Curry, 8. Jean-Luc Du Preez
Replacements:
16. Tommy Taylor, 17. Bevan Rodd, 18. James Harper, 19. Rouban Birch, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Raffi Quirke, 22. Tom Curtis, 23. Tom Roebuck.

With a healthy dose of sleep and other preps as well as the advantage that home fans can bring there is a bit of hope for a result, just a bit.

Still a good chance of you guys qualifying for the knock out rounds on the main competition - the challenge cup sides will want to avoid you if you do drop down.

Well that second half was a lot better than what we have seen recently.

No doubt the crowd really getting into it probably helped but the team was a lot better in the second half than in recent weeks.

Although when they twice got held up in a couple of mins because they didn't learn not to go for little pick and go's at the goal line I started to think it wasn't going to be Ulster's night.

Definitely the best atmosphere I have seen this year though, a lot of sale fans travelled over too.

Cooney did well when he came off the bench, Lyttle did good too in second half. Back row stepped up for second half after getting a bit overwhelmed in first half.

Referee was, well he was French is probably the best way to put it.

Is it me or has Doak been not great since the pointless tour to South Africa in the Autumn? Also I know scrum halves are chirpy but he's seems to be moaning quite a bit lately at the ref. Maybe that's just me thinking that.
On last night's game, it shows what having a strong bench means. Cooney, Herring and O'Toole really made a huge impression when they came on.

A performance of character backing up the same last week.
Not convinced the performance was all that but showing real heart is the first step to recovery.

I agree Doak needs to wind his neck in and concentrate on his game

Best crowd of the season - real atmosphere.

I would like to give a thumbs up to Toomunga-Allen.
3 decent games from him - I think he will l stay and we will ditched the chocolate tea pot

Got the low down on Stephen Ferris and Petrie
Ferris thinks the man is a self serving scumbag who has no emotional attachment to Ulster
Given a choice between him looking good and doing whats right for Ulster he will choose the former
He also said Ulster totally to blame for the La Rochelle farce by ignoring ERC regulations.
He also said Petrie wasn't that bothered about moving the game because he was afraid of someone falling and suing Ulster
His twitter messages were lies and an attempt to suggest it was something else
Hard to believe but he was adamant this was the case
Depressing