It's dead on here !

This used to be a great boxing forum is crap now very in active

Unfortunately a lot of the WUMS wrecked it so most of the really decent posters left as they couldn't be bothered putting up with their crap

Tyson fury the best ever

don't complain about it when you add to the silence.

Although wouldn't actually mind seeing you write something decent on why you think Fury is the best ever (or why Joshua et all isn't)

Floyd wants to prove his greatness he should look at the winner of Mikey and Spence

The winner of Mikey and Spence would be a great fight for Manny too

I think Manny would take it if it was viable we all know Floyd wouldn’t go anywhere near it taking on prime contenders isn’t really his thing

You get rewarded for running from your mandatory that’s the state of boxing today

DeGale refused to fight him a year ago all of a sudden wants to fight him what a joke

This is a real fight:

https://youtu.be/F1i2RELEDEc

Manny AND Floyd would be bonkers to take on any of the top guys, they're getting way past it now and no matter what can't live up to both of their legacy's. A loss wouldn't be a major problem considering ages but a complete shutout etc and all of a sudden they're in the 'we're they really any good to begin with'.

Gotta remember Hermy, boxings a business and Degale/Eubank makes sense now (I hate it as much as you btw) should be a good fight as well

The guy’s going backwards has designs on a Groves rematch dear oh dear

Has he never heard of Callum Smith

Absolute joke this fight is ppv Uzecategui would have taken him apart

Floyd fighting Manny again looks like it anyway

I don’t think either of them would fancy the winner of Mikey/Spence particularly if it’s Mikey

A fight against the winner of that would represent the first non-handpicked opponent for Floyd in years hence why he’s chosen the Pacquiao fight now

He knows he’s got the beating of Manny knows there’s enough doubt about that shoulder stuff to sell the fight

Though if Manny looks sensational against Broner maybe Floyd will stay where he is- top 25-35 of all time. Wins over Mikey and Regis, Spence, Crawford and Thurman then the debate could open about his entry into the top 25 discussion. He’s not in the top 25 imo because he spent the majority of his latter career skirting around the stiffest challenges

https://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-pacquiao-come-face-face-clippers-game--135239

Personally I have fallen out of love with Boxing...Politics...PPV and lack of interesting fighters..

Whilst I have no doubt the more sensitive posters found Top hat and myself etc irritating...

Fact is...it was a busy site while Boxing had interesting characters.

Boxing isn't the same sport I grew up loving.

The winner of Floyd/Manny has to take on the winner of Mikey/Spence surely

Or Bud Crawford

Mikey/Spence winner could choose to take on Crawford too

Any other fights in the division at this precise minute play second fiddle to any of the above

All these are crackers:

Floyd vs Manny 2
Floyd vs Mikey
Floyd vs Spence
Floyd vs Crawford

Manny vs Mikey
Manny vs Crawford
Manny vs Spence

Mikey vs Crawford
Crawford vs Spence

N.B  I’m assuming Floyd is still an active fighter who at this stage of his career should be taking on nothing but the best

Derbymanc wrote:Unfortunately a lot of the WUMS wrecked it so most of the really decent posters left as they couldn't be bothered putting up with their crap

Yeh i’m sorry for wrecking the site, fella

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Personally I have fallen out of love with Boxing...Politics...PPV and lack of interesting fighters..

Whilst I have no doubt the more sensitive posters found Top hat and myself etc irritating...

Fact is...it was a busy site while Boxing had interesting characters.

Boxing isn't the same sport I grew up loving.

Who could find a big cuddly bear like you irritating trussy?

I know what you mean, my interest has waned too.... but historically there was a mix of healthy debate and banter on here... you could choose your bag and stomach the thread derailing. There came a time when the lunatics had taken over the asylum.

Such is life. You still debating brexit on the politics forum?

Noncy marxist moderators stifled the debate

milkyboy wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Personally I have fallen out of love with Boxing...Politics...PPV and lack of interesting fighters..

Whilst I have no doubt the more sensitive posters found Top hat and myself etc irritating...

Fact is...it was a busy site while Boxing had interesting characters.

Boxing isn't the same sport I grew up loving.

Who could find a big cuddly bear like you irritating trussy?

I know what you mean, my interest has waned too.... but historically there was a mix of healthy debate and banter on here... you could choose your bag and stomach the thread derailing. There came a time when the lunatics had taken over the asylum.

Such is life. You still debating brexit on the politics forum?

Agree with both Truss and Milky (has it really come to this?).  The decline of this board mirrored the decline of boxing.  The endless Floyd v Manny "will they/won't they, oh look they're doing it now when it no longer matters" saga drove me away from boxing in the same way the endless debates about the subject drove me away from this board.

You must miss the hagler Leonard debates though super

I assumed you were still handing out a silent beating on that matter.

Hope all is well with you. You still gadding about as a slum landlord?

superflyweight wrote:I assumed you were still handing out a silent beating on that matter.    

What I do in the privacy of my own home is my business.

superflyweight wrote:

Hope all is well with you.  You still gadding about as a slum landlord?  

Sadly with an increasing number of dependents, I actually have to work for a living. It’s an outrage. Trust all is good with you fella... still keeping up the good name of the legal profession?

I'm the watcher on the wall when it comes to preserving the good name of the legal profession.

Rising number of dependants also ruining any chance of swanning off and doing something more relaxing.

I share your pain....my disposable income is eaten up entirely by hot wheels cars and dinosaurs.

Bloody annoying,too, when the kids want to borrow them

superflyweight wrote:I'm the watcher on the wall when it comes to preserving the good name of the legal profession.  

Rising number of dependants also ruining any chance of swanning off and doing something more relaxing.  

Pushing it there, supes.

You alright Milky, Truss, Flyboy and the rest.

Can't disagree too much with any of you as boxing does seem stuck in the doldrums. I'm struggling to write anything really positive and for the first time in a long time am completely meh with when it's actually on

Derby...The keeper of the faith is even struggling..

Says it all...

Regards and good to see some welcome faces on this thread....and Milky !!

I think it's become far more about the money-making capabilities rather than the boxers themselves. Gone are the days of people fighting anyone who topped the rankings to defend their title. It's rare that promoters let their charges fight the best in the divisions or even to unify much. Wilder/Joshua should have been signed months ago but for promoters and money issues. It's rare that a fighter is scared to fight another - it's all about the politics and that sucks.

You only have to look at the deal that Alvarez signed to realise that it's just going to get worse. Yes, he's good, but he's not outstanding. And he's a proven convicted cheat. Doesn't matter - money talks. It's a bag of turd now.

Nice to see that some of us are still here. For now at least...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Derby...The keeper of the faith is even struggling..

Says it all...

Regards and good to see some welcome faces on this thread....and Milky !!

Kerching.

Truss, Can you do us a top 10 reasons why boxing is sh*t thread, just for old times sake. Haz can drop by and disagree with them all and call me a winker.

Must be the New Year, I’m getting all nostalgic.

Derbymanc wrote:You alright Milky, Truss, Flyboy and the rest.

Can't disagree too much with any of you as boxing does seem stuck in the doldrums. I'm struggling to write anything really positive and for the first time in a long time am completely meh with when it's actually on

Hey derby, all the best fella. How can boxing be in the doldrums? it’s so good according to eddie that he can’t avoid date clashes when putting on epic super fights like chisora whyte 2.

It’s just old school boxing fans that think it sucks.

have to echo others about boxings decline. stopped coming on the boxing page long before this forum become so quiet.

i used to love friday night fight nights, two british level fighters around a similar level fighting for british title and on normal sky not ppv, used to get some great fights. now they avoid each protecting their 0, while picking up some alphabet belt ive never heard off and the promoter spouting some nonsense about said fighter. by the time he actually fights a fighter around similar level or anyone decent its banged on PPV. add to that nearly every big "british" fight you can easily call 9 times out of 10. similar on the whole PPV cards, its all mismatches. boring

boxing really needs to remember its a sport, and not just a money making exercise for promoters. will only go so long before all fans stop buying the rubbish the promoters are selling, and the money will dry up. think it may get worse before it gets better sadly.

Friday Night Fights was great but Matchroom killed it as soon as they hooked up with Sky Sports.

Some of the best fights I've seen were on Friday Night Fights (although Paul Smith v Tony Quigley was on it and that was one of the worst fights I've seen).

yeah im similar. think moore v macklin was a friday night, as was moore v rhodes. gomez v arthur may have been a saturday (cant remember) but it was a free to air show on sky. at that time just seemed like there was always great fights on between british fighters. brodie v swain was another off the top of my head.

Am surprised by the lack of old skool contributors recently, I hope you guys will still continue to pop up.

Pop up every once in a while but Pro boxing is really in the doldrums lately, think corona gave the opportunity for change at all levels but as per the Promoters flubbed it and we're left with the same mismatches, bad decisions and scorecards that leave a bad taste. I only look out for the lads and girls I know now and otherwise take little interest

Derbymanc wrote:Pop up every once in a while but Pro boxing is really in the doldrums lately, think corona gave the opportunity for change at all levels but as per the Promoters flubbed it and we're left with the same mismatches, bad decisions and scorecards that leave a bad taste. I only look out for the lads and girls I know now and otherwise take little interest

IMHO there have been some good competitive fights e.g. Cheesman/Eggington, Gill/Belloti, Harper/Jonas and scoring is often contentious however last nights' dreadful "Main Event" featuring Daniel Dubious was a perfect example of your point and exactly what is not needed.

The building up of domestic fights like Dubois against Joyce doesn't help either, decent potential fight yes but worthy of such hype? Definitely not, it's ultimately two good boxers who are unlikely to make an impact at world level but it's the best Warren can offer.

I heard Eddie Hearn being introduced by a TV presenter the other day as a "legend of boxing."
When did it get to be so surface and peppered with platitudes like this by people who don't know what they're talking about?
I struggle to warm to Bunce, time has not helped him even though he has great knowledge. He won't resist the over the top declaration, and in his newspaper articles he defends boxing as being no more crooked than any other sport. Who's he trying to kid?
I used to comment on this site about how daft it sounded when fighters protected their padded 30 unbeaten run and then start blathering about leaving a legacy. Could you imagine Ray Robinson saying such toss?
Sadly the hyping of boxing resembles the hoo-ha of Strictly Come Dancing.... I think the nadir was David Haye and Bellew.What a joke of a fight that was, yet we were served a crud n potato pie and told it was gourmet. And I suspect that when Fury retires, God help us, the British fight scene will be even more depressing. It seems that no-one here expects DuBois or Joyce to be genuinely world beating standard.
So my question to you is, what would need to happen to get your excitement back, for real?

For me it would be simple but impossible to achieve. One belt for each division. One champion. champion faces the number 1 contender unless unavailable, then it defers to #2 etc. No voluntary defence BS. You have to EARN your shot by beating the other contenders. Drug tests every week with no excuses. Miss a test, minimum 2 year ban, no appeals. All judges appointed from a pool who have no affiliation to any of the fighters/promoters either by country or social means.

All championship fights to be shown on non-PPV platforms. People are bored of boxing because they have to pay for a load of mismatched dross. Ask anyone in the street today who the British HW champion is and it's guaranteed they will all struggle. In the 90s a hell of a lot more knew - thank you ITV's Big Fight Live. (In case you didn't know, today it's Daniel Dubois).

milkyboy wrote:

Derbymanc wrote:Unfortunately a lot of the WUMS wrecked it so most of the really decent posters left as they couldn't be bothered putting up with their crap

Yeh i’m sorry for wrecking the site, fella

No, you are a great contributor, Milky

Mr Bounce wrote:For me it would be simple but impossible to achieve. One belt for each division. One champion. champion faces the number 1 contender unless unavailable, then it defers to #2 etc. No voluntary defence BS. You have to EARN your shot by beating the other contenders. Drug tests every week with no excuses. Miss a test, minimum 2 year ban, no appeals. All judges appointed from a pool who have no affiliation to any of the fighters/promoters either by country or social means.

All championship fights to be shown on non-PPV platforms. People are bored of boxing because they have to pay for a load of mismatched dross. Ask anyone in the street today who the British HW champion is and it's guaranteed they will all struggle. In the 90s a hell of a lot more knew - thank you ITV's Big Fight Live. (In case you didn't know, today it's Daniel Dubois).

People pay for mismatched dross because of the Hearns of this world. You wonder how much he loves the sport, and how much he simply is in it for himself. Joshua is an example of how to turn a talent in to a boring packaged banality similar to a Lewis Hamilton.
I guess Don King started the rot....?

We need fair bouts, doesn't matter if it's PPV or free to air boxing has to get rid of this mystique around the 0 and people flocking to say how someone is overrated when they lose. A loss shouldn't matter as much if you learn from it and/or you've fought someone at a high level and lost.

Boxers themselves need to take a chance (Look at Gavin Rees when he won a world title, or Ricky Burns) A loss shouldn't be the end of the road or a career, it should be a new start and a chance for said boxer to look at where he went wrong.

Womens boxing could become a big thing as their fights are a lot closer because there aren't as many as the men.

Purses should be split 40/40 or 35/35 with the winner taking the remaining, get rid of the home and away fighter Love sacks and journeymen, as in don't get rid of them but let these journeymen box, I know a few and they're very good boxers in their own right.

Yes, I argued on a forum once about the necessity of journeymen, and was surprised to get the reply of, Aim for the highest, or don't bother boxing. What this misses is the concept of boxing accepting all levels of ability and of course plenty of journeymen fighters have helped the name fighters on the way up. But once again we see the attitude that the sports all about blockbusting events, as if a boxer were no different to say a wrestler.Of course some famous names evolved in to champions, Steve Robinson more recently, having many losses on his record, and The Cinderella Man, James Braddock.
But it seems that taking a long time to achieve the highest goal isn't necessary - look at Eubank Jr, a very limited fighter in my opinion who is always in the mix and doesn't seem to want to learn the basics if he can simply bang em away... Yawn... A decade long wbo reign no doubt awaits..

Another exemplary performance from Crawford last night, albeit against a predictably outclassed Brook. Crawford is such a complete and poised fighter, a real treat to watch. Keep going back and forth in my head over who has the most rounded and best all-round skill set between him and Inoue.

But jeez, he really needs that Spence fight in 2021. No version of Brook (though admittedly I've never rated him as high as most others) is beating Crawford, but Kell looked pretty gaunt and drawn at the weigh in, hasn't had a notable win in years and is maybe just starting to soften up in terms of his punch resistance, too, albeit no shame in getting stopped early against Crawford, as Crawford can bang. Crawford-Spence isn't the easiest fight to make politically, but hopefully the Covid slowdown will shake both camps out of their malaise and make them more amenable to making it happen while they still can.

As for Brook...Really not sure where this leaves him. Seemingly out of Eddie's good books for whatever career he's got left (although you should take anything Hearn says with a pinch of salt), low on form and confidence, bearing the scars of his career which are becoming ever more visible (one of his eyes already looked as if it was starting to get softened up last night) etc. I feel sorry for him to an extent, because his fall from Sky golden boy to an afterthought who they can do without was so precipitous, and if his recent comments since his 'split' with Hearn are anything to go by, he has been the fall guy for some idiotic mismanagement and treated as collateral...But then again, much of Brook's problems have been of his own making. The partying and weight troubles between fights, the ridiculous obsession with Khan which blinded him to the other opportunities he should have been seeking etc.

Plenty of suggestions that last night was his last hurrah and that he was just chasing that last big(ish) payday before retiring, but I suspect we'll see him trudge on for a little while longer. If Hearn was still by his side I would guess that we'd be treated (yet again) to the same old schtick of chasing the 'mega fight' with Khan, but without Matchroom backing even that one might prove difficult to sell now. His profile across the pond isn't all that high, so at best I can only seem him being offered up as a punchbag to someone like Hurd or Charlo. At his age, no American promoter is going to bother investing any serious time or money into trying to rebuild him and his profile.

There seemed to be so much opportunity out there for Brook any time between 2011 and 2014, and he really should have kicked on after beating Porter that year for the IBF. Instead he achieved almost nothing of note afterwards and he'll retire without us ever knowing quite how good he really was or could have been.

Crawford is a decent puncher but I wouldn't say he can particularly bang especially at Welterweight, we shouldn't forget that he couldn't dent Burns at lightweight where his power seemed to be at it's optimum and now fast forward he's stopping Brook. Without meaning to sound too critical but that is almost entirely down to Brook having no punch resistance left at the weight, quite why he has insisted to boil down to 147lbs is beyond me, it left him drained for the Spence fight let alone now with the passing of three more years.

Crawford is a sublime talent but the fight on Saturday has done nothing to further his reputation, there is no way a pre Golovkin Brook loses that easily.

I see your point about Crawford failing to stop Burns, Soul, but I don't think he's the same fighter as he was back in 2013/2014 when he was first establishing himself on the world scene against the likes of Prescott and Burns. Crawford was more of a pure stylist then, whereas he's developed a bit more of a ruthless edge as he's moved up in weight and if anything seems more apt to stop guys the higher up he's gone.

But as I said above, I do agree that Brook's punch resistance and / or concentration once he's been clocked is probably starting to wane. Not a clever move trimming back down to 147, but I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. He won't want to return to the domestic or Euro ranks to rebuild himself (and probably doesn't have time to), which I don't blame him for. So if he's going to fight any of the top guys between 147 and 154 then he'll probably have to keep making concessions or fighting under duress.

Which is why I really can't see what semi-big fight is out there for him at the moment. Charlo or Hurd would knock ten bells out of him and I don't want to see Brook getting splattered. Lara is a horrible fight and I can't see anyone being in a rush to put any money into it. Teixeira could be a route back to a world title and is beatable despite being big and awkward. Golden Boy's stable is relatively bare these days so maybe they'd be interested in throwing Brook a bone.

I wish him well, but think he should be considering calling it a day.

Brook won't call it a day yet. There's still the chance of an Amir Khan fight, which should give him a half decent payday.

Atila wrote:Brook won't call it a day yet. There's still the chance of an Amir Khan fight, which should give him a half decent payday.  

I'm not so sure myself, Atila. Khan is more interested in being a celebrity than a fighter these days. There was a time when I could understand him shunning Brook and having no interest in him. Brook started dogging him out as early as 2011 as soon as he signed with Matchroom, which was a shade embarrassing at times, seeing as Khan had already been a world champion at 140 for a couple of years and wasn't even in Brook's division - Kell was calling out a smaller guy who was a much bigger name and who'd been campaigning at a much higher level. Obviously Khan's stock took a hit in 2012-13, but he relocated to 147 which coincided nicely with Brook bagging his world title in 2014. A couple of the so-called barriers to the fight (Brook having no title to bring to the table, not having much profile outside of Sheffield etc.) were removed and it could probably have sold out one of the bigger UK stadiums in 2015, especially after Khan had likewise looked so good against Alexander.

Once that window was missed, I could still kind of see Khan's point in not taking on a potentially risky fight against Brook when he had a multi-million dollar payday against Canelo as a possibility, but once he'd got inevitably flattened there he really didn't have any more viable excuses to claim that Brook "wasn't on his level" and suchlike. But he'd barely recovered consciousness from the Canelo KO before he started distancing himself from the contest again. Soon after Brook gets stopped twice in succession by GGG and Spence, and at that point I just stopped caring about a Brook-Khan fight.

I'm not sure it'd do particularly great numbers even if Khan was interested. Him and Brook have just faded into relative obscurity, at least this side of the pond (oddly enough, Khan still seems relatively financially viable elsewhere in the world, a benefit which Brook doesn't have). I suspect it would get more viewers and earn them more dough as chief support to a hypothetical Fury-Joshua showdown next year than it would as a headliner in its own right.

88Chris05 wrote:Another exemplary performance from Crawford last night, albeit against a predictably outclassed Brook. Crawford is such a complete and poised fighter, a real treat to watch. Keep going back and forth in my head over who has the most rounded and best all-round skill set between him and Inoue.

But jeez, he really needs that Spence fight in 2021. No version of Brook (though admittedly I've never rated him as high as most others) is beating Crawford, but Kell looked pretty gaunt and drawn at the weigh in, hasn't had a notable win in years and is maybe just starting to soften up in terms of his punch resistance, too, albeit no shame in getting stopped early against Crawford, as Crawford can bang. Crawford-Spence isn't the easiest fight to make politically, but hopefully the Covid slowdown will shake both camps out of their malaise and make them more amenable to making it happen while they still can.

As for Brook...Really not sure where this leaves him. Seemingly out of Eddie's good books for whatever career he's got left (although you should take anything Hearn says with a pinch of salt), low on form and confidence, bearing the scars of his career which are becoming ever more visible (one of his eyes already looked as if it was starting to get softened up last night) etc. I feel sorry for him to an extent, because his fall from Sky golden boy to an afterthought who they can do without was so precipitous, and if his recent comments since his 'split' with Hearn are anything to go by, he has been the fall guy for some idiotic mismanagement and treated as collateral...But then again, much of Brook's problems have been of his own making. The partying and weight troubles between fights, the ridiculous obsession with Khan which blinded him to the other opportunities he should have been seeking etc.

Plenty of suggestions that last night was his last hurrah and that he was just chasing that last big(ish) payday before retiring, but I suspect we'll see him trudge on for a little while longer. If Hearn was still by his side I would guess that we'd be treated (yet again) to the same old schtick of chasing the 'mega fight' with Khan, but without Matchroom backing even that one might prove difficult to sell now. His profile across the pond isn't all that high, so at best I can only seem him being offered up as a punchbag to someone like Hurd or Charlo. At his age, no American promoter is going to bother investing any serious time or money into trying to rebuild him and his profile.

There seemed to be so much opportunity out there for Brook any time between 2011 and 2014, and he really should have kicked on after beating Porter that year for the IBF. Instead he achieved almost nothing of note afterwards and he'll retire without us ever knowing quite how good he really was or could have been.

g'day Chris, trust all is well. Brook's was a strange career, I'm using past tense in the hope he hangs his gloves up. He had obvious talent but application/attitude issues and took too long to get the big fights... then suddenly leapt in at the deep end. Not sure GGG followed by spence were great career moves. Ultimately his body let him down, the Spence fight was in the balance prior to eye-socket damage. Stylistically, against the top guys he always looked like an aaaarrrrmmmm puncher as Jim Watt would say, to me - he had really fast hands and a nice mix of punches but they seemed to come from the shoulder. Spence and Crawford seem looser/more relaxed more leveraged with their shots. He's done though. He took some huge shots from GGG but got incapacitated by a jab from Crawford.

As for Crawford. Talented and complete fighter, but has he ever fought a top fighter even close to their prime, at least where the dice weren't loaded in his favour? He dwarfed Gamboa. Postol is as close as it gets and he's not making the HOF any time soon. He's an unbeaten 33 year old multi-weight world champion with the square root of f'all on his cv. I'm sure he'd fight them, but he was on the wrong promotional team to fight the welterweight 'names'. Now he's kicking off about not getting the fights but it seems about the money.... desperate for a Manny payday when the fight we all want is Spence. We can see why he feels his bank balance doesn't match his talent and that he wants to do something about that but doesn't he have to beat somebody to be p4p top dog these days. Or is that how bad it's got?

Atila wrote:Brook won't call it a day yet. There's still the chance of an Amir Khan fight, which should give him a half decent payday.  

Alright fella? They should have an arm wrestle.

Hey there milkman. All good at my end thanks, hope the same goes for you.

We were having this pound for pound debate a while back and touched on similar stuff to what you've alluded to. Usually at any given time a fan or publication's pound for pound list might have two or three names on it who are there more on talent and potential, but you'd also expect there to be a good few names on there who have seriously deep resumes over a long period, who have beaten fellow pound for pounders in style, have cleared out a stacked and competitive division etc.

But at the minute it seems like you could draw up a top a top five and all the names there would fall into those first categories: clearly very talented, laid some really good foundations...But still lacking in terms of really eye-catching wins, and still with a feeling that they have something to prove. Not a great indictment of the sport when so many of its leading practitioners still have those kind of questions hanging over them.

You've touched on the shortcomings in terms of Crawford's pound for pound claims, but he's not alone.

Usyk? Cleared out Cruiserweight as comprehensively as anyone could, but shades of Crawford's clearing out of Light-Welter in that it was a decent division with some decent fighters, but nobody particularly special. In any case he's a Heavyweight now, a whole different ball game, and has it all to prove there. Already signs (quite naturally, in fairness) that he's going to find it tougher going north of 200 lb.

Inoue? Tremendously skilled and has earned the right to call himself the best at Bantamweight, but a past-his-best Donaire is still probably his best win and that aside, no real star names on his record. Can sometimes be tough to discern just how good the talent pool is once you go below Bantamweight, where he racked up some of his other titles, too.

Alvarez? Certainly has all the names on his record. Whether or not he's actually beaten all of them (Trout, Lara, Golovkin) is debatable, though. Good additional wins over guys like Cotto and Kovalev, spanning plenty of weights, but there's a whiff of opportune timing about those ones. If Crawford's record looks underwhelming compared to his talent, it's probably the other way round for Canelo: he's already a modern great on paper, but he's never really shone or produced a performance of greatness in any of his biggest fights, and struggles to look a cut above his opponents the way you'd normally expect a pound for pound champion to do.

Fury? Two cracking wins over Wlad and Wilder, but they're separated by more than four years and there's not all that many other goods wins against name opponents aside from them. No doubting his ability, but prone to being a bit of an inconsistent performer throughout his career albeit he hasn't come a cropper as a result just yet.

Lomachenko? Always thought people were a little premature giving him the pound for pound title in any case, as for whatever reason I've always found his style to be a little too amateur-looking (was never going to shed those habits after so many unpaid fights, I guess) and thought that guys such as Crawford and Inoue had more complete skillsets for the pro game - but in any case, he's coming off a loss now and while his record is very, very respectable, there's nobody on there you could level greatness at, or no wins against really top opposition in their prime.

There's nobody at the moment who really combines a great record and brilliant performance levels - they all seem to be slanted heavily one way or the other.

Brook comes across as delusional. In his 40 odd fights he fought 4 top fighter - Porter, Golovkin, Spence and Crawford. Aside from that he was happy fighting the worse opponents possible whilst literally stalking Khan.

Brook got supposedly £4m to fight Golovkin and $2m to fight Crawford, yet he continually claims he was worthy of a 50/50 purse split against Khan.

Khan got $5m to face Crawford and £7m to face Dib in the Middle East, why would he realistically fight Brook? Khan could easily demand 75-25 split and that’s generous to Brook. I’d even suggest Khan would be worthy of 80-20 or 85-15 split.

The old 'I get paid more' argument so won't fight you.