Toni Nadal: Federer is a workshy fop

by reckoner Wed 19 Jul 2017, 2:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Toni comments on Federer

Uncle Toni has a few choice words about the 2017 Wimbledon champion. (translated from El Pais)

Last year at this time I had the opportunity to exchange anecdotes and impressions with Roger Federer's manager Tony Godsick and his wife Mary Jo Fernandez. His children, good friends of ours, were at the Rafa Nadal Academy and we went out to dinner together.

Whenever I have an occasion I like to investigate and try to discover what things people do or have done with professional success that distinguishes them from the others. And that's what happened to Tony that night about the Swiss player. I was surprised by what he told me. Contrary to what I had deduced, Roger is not a very disciplined or very methodical player. Apparently he does not take care of his food and his rest routines.

He also told me that at one point he had offered to give him the statistics and descriptive data we have today thanks to the technologies, and Federer flatly rejected it. He argued that he likes a more impromptu game and that he did not want to be encrusted by data that predisposed him on what he had to do. What the manager asserted and emphasized, however, was that for Roger tennis is his life, his obsession, the only thing that occupies his thinking. I guess he exaggerated that last one. I imagine that his children and his family also occupy him.

Other than some ever so slightly sour grapes, I take from these comments that Federer is, if not exactly coasting, playing without the obsessive focus that has at times characterised the rest of the big four. He's left room for improvisation, for junk food, for family.

If true, I think this balanced approach goes some way to explain why he's still enjoying the game and, I hope, bodes very well for Fed's longevity.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:20 am

laverfan wrote:@JHM... should this thread be merged in to the GOAT sticky?

Possibly - it may become my Dad is bigger* than your Dad

* but only through natural means.

by **88Chris05** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 7:35 pm

Mochyn du wrote:I am not prejudiced. Equally suspicious of Federer these days. I think Federer's narcissism makes him do whatever it takes to keep ahead of Nadal and everyone else. I have significant doubts about the cosmic achievements of both players. Just I feel Nadal has always appeared dubious whereas I have gained doubts about Federer only recently, as you say, it is unusual for a man of 35 to win two majors after several years of slam drought.

Bit surprised by this. Had Federer been nowhere in the Slams between 2013 and 2016 I'd be more inclined to agree (albeit all things considered, it'd still be a tenuous one at best), but that's not the case.

Federer was still getting right to the business end of Slams with decent regularity in this period; between his injury-plagued 2013 and his remarkable 2017, he made at least the semi finals in seven of the ten Slams he attended. More than half of these near-misses are accounted for by just one man, Djokovic (Wimbledon 2014 and 2015, US Open 2015, Australian Open 2016).

Given that Djokovic is suddenly out of form and not making the back-end of that many Slams recently, doesn't common sense suggest that Federer was always in with a decent shout of converting a couple of these near-misses in to Slam successes, what with his chief tormentor of recent years temporarily (I hope) on the fringes?

by lags72 Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:22 pm

@88Chris05 - Some very good points.

It was indeed a couple of injury-troubled seasons (2013 & 2016), together with the considerable obstacle of Djokovic, that combined to frustrate Federer's attempts at the Slams, resulting in a 'fallow' period between his Wimbledon 2012 victory and titles no. 18 & 19 which came in impressive manner this season.

Federer as you say was still good enough to go deep at many Slams ; and in Finals it took some top class performances from a World No1 Djokovic to stop him.

This season Federer is injury-free and has of course improved key aspects of his game during the six-month layoff. These improvements have been such that whenever Fed has played anyone ranked in the top ten, he has always won (9-0). There's every chance he would have beaten Djokovic too - but of course Djoko was going out too early for any meetings to happen.

by Belovedluckyboy Fri 28 Jul 2017, 8:36 pm

^^Its the way he won them - having to go five sets three times against younger opponents (all top ten) at the AO- whilst he hadn't done that in the past when he's younger. It's not only Djoko who was stopping him in the past, there're Nadal, Murray, Seppi at the AO. If Fed at 35 could do all these, I don't see why Rafa at a younger age was being targeted so often by his detractors.

I'm not saying that there's certainly something fishy about Fed's wins, just like I'm not going to call anyone (including Rafa) out; I think they should be given the benefits of the doubts, i.e. innocent until proven guilty.

by **laverfan** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 11:28 pm

reckoner wrote:I tell you what that Rossewall guy was totally juiced.

Yeh, and that is why he was very we'll known as 'Muscles'. Hug

by **laverfan** Fri 28 Jul 2017, 11:46 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:^^Its the way he won them - having to go five sets three times against younger opponents (all top ten) at the AO- whilst he hadn't done that in the past when he's younger.

2013 Slams W/L 13-4 with five setters vs Tsonga, Murray (AO), Simon (RG)
2014 Slams W/L 19-4 with five setters vs Gulbis (RG), Djokovic (W), Monfils (USO)
2015 Slams W/L 18-4 with no five setters
2016 Slams W/L 10-2 with five setters vs Cilic, Raonic (W)
2017 Slams W/L 14-0 with five setters vs Nishikori, Wawrinka, Nadal (AO)

The 5-set distribution is 3, 3, 0, 2, 3. At AO he came back after six months. He has lost to Donskoy and Haas this year. Every one in the last five years playing five sets is younger than Federer. Wink

by Henman Bill Sat 29 Jul 2017, 2:14 am

This year there is a notch better backhand, and a notch better confidence, but Federer had basically been playing at about the same level from 2004 onwards when fully fit.

2004-2010, 2012, 2017 won slams
2011, 2014, 2015 narrow defeats to peak Djokovic in GS semis and finals
2013, 2016 - physical issues

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:00 am

LF - Fed had NEVER gone five sets vs three top ten at the AO and won all of those! There's no need to bring out the other slams.

My issue is that some people think the world of Fed, that he's able to outlast his younger opponents, but when it comes to Rafa (or even Djoko), people questioned their fitness, even though they are younger.

I do hope to see these same people stop questioning both Rafa and Djoko's physical fitness the next time they are doing like Fed, in outlasting their opponents!

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:05 am

See, you people were so quick to jump to Fed's defense, but when it come to Rafa or Djoko, I doubt you people are so keen to do so!

I'll watch out for that, and if a certain Mochyn were to say the same thing again, I'll watch keenly whether the people here are also quick to jump to Rafa's or Djoko's defense!

by lags72 Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:07 am

laverfan wrote:

.......................

................

He has lost to Donskoy and Haas this year. Every one in the last five years playing five sets is younger than Federer.

I'm struggling to think of any current ATP regulars (Karlovic ...?) older than Federer. So it's pretty much a given that whoever he plays these days is going to be younger than him ! And very often, by a decade or more.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:11 am

See, you people were so quick to jump to Fed's defense, but when it come to Rafa or Djoko, I doubt you people are so keen to do so!

I'll watch out for that, and if a certain Mochyn were to say the same thing again, I'll watch keenly whether the people here are also quick to jump to Rafa's or Djoko's defense!

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:16 am

LF and Lags, are you two intentionally missing out THREE younger opponents but concentrates on just YOUNGER opponent??

And Fed DID LOSE to an older opponent in Haas!

by lags72 Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:27 am

Blb - I think you're getting too wrapped up in what seems to me was a bit of a throwaway WUM comment from Mochyn Du, and this discussion is going nowhere really.

Personally I have serious doubts that either Rafa or Djoko (or indeed anyone else) will be winning a couple of Slams when into their 36th year. But hey ..... let's wait & see what happens in five years from now. I could possibly be wrong. ....... Wink

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:36 am

Well, when Rafa starts sweeping up anything non clay, I hope we don't have to hear 'dubious' comments about him!

I see Rafa not playing till 36, 34 maybe and I think he's capable of winning a slam or two then. For Djoko, he says he wants to play for another five years or so, and I do think he's like Agassi; his ROS plus his balance from both wings and his taking the ball early will be hard to beat by players not named Fed or Rafa. By then both of them will be retired!

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 4:40 am

If Rafa continues to play like he did this clay season, i.e. shorter points and more offensive tennis, he's capable of beating anyone at the FO for the next few years, my take. As long as he's playing aggressive tennis and moving inside the court more often, he'll be less prone to injuries. He's doing so starting with this season, so far so good; we'll see how his body reacts.

by erictheblueuk Sat 29 Jul 2017, 7:52 am

Federer is nearly 36 years old, married with 4 kids. His game, body and mind is not in the same place as the other younger guys he's competing with.

I recall seeing an interview with Henman who watched him practice before Wimbledon started. And his practice sessions are like no one else's. He stands on or inside the baseline playing half volley ground strokes off both wings. Then once a rally starts within 4 or 5 shots he aggressively forces himself to end the point.

He's not as quick as he used to be and hasn't got the same stamina but if he builds his game around this clear and simple but aggressive game plan it keeps the points short and puts all the pressure on the opponent.

by Belovedluckyboy Sat 29 Jul 2017, 10:10 am

I do feel it's not just Fed who's doing that , i.e. shortening points, Rafa is also doing that now. I also believe come next year when Djoko is back, he will also do the same. The fact that Djoko has gotten in Ancic to be one of his coaches, tells me that Djoko is keen on improving his net game. Ancic is another S&V type of players (Djoko got rid of Becker perhaps because of some personal reasons). I doubt Djoko would stick with his baseline game when he's also getting older and into his 30s.

Murray has always had good hands at the net, so for him to play more close to the net or at the net shouldn't be too big a problem.

In fact the trio of Rafa, Djoko and Murray have the versatility to modify their games, either rediscovering some lost elements or simply adding in some new elements into their games.

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