Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I personally think Biggar should start the 1st test at 10.

He has been the best fly half for the Lions on tour. Sexton hasn't ever really fired and Farrell hasn't done much else either.

Biggar should start the test on merit on Saturday with Sexton on the bench IMO and Russell and Farrell should play against the Canes with Russell at 10 and Farrell at 12 to see if they can unlock some space for the back 3 and force their way into contention for test 2.

Really?

Yes, he got the backline moving today, despite Greig Laidlaw's best efforts to rob us of any momentum.

What has Sexton done on tour, or Farrell for that matter to make anyone think they are the best option at 10?

Sexton has been ponderous at best, and Farrell has defended pretty well, and missed a couple of kicks.

It wasn't the case at the start but at least Biggar is creating something vaguely reminiscent of an attacking shape.

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

Yes Grifty - I was referring to the Scrum V propaganda on the BBC live feed. Liam Williams is mentioned 11 times.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan but there were almost 50 other players involved.

Nowell 27 though.  Why not pick up on that?

FFS... this has got to be a whole new level of childish behaviour... "They said his name more than his... na na na na"

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Yes, he got the backline moving today, despite Greig Laidlaw's best efforts to rob us of any momentum.

What has Sexton done on tour, or Farrell for that matter to make anyone think they are the best option at 10?

Sexton has been ponderous at best, and Farrell has defended pretty well, and missed a couple of kicks.

It wasn't the case at the start but at least Biggar is creating something vaguely reminiscent of an attacking shape.

Farrell created a try and got us firing within minutes of his first appearance. Him and Sexton haven't been amazing, but judging too much on today's performance is unwise. These guys don't play for Chiefs.

No9 wrote:

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

Yes Grifty - I was referring to the Scrum V propaganda on the BBC live feed. Liam Williams is mentioned 11 times.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan but there were almost 50 other players involved.

Nowell 27 though.  Why not pick up on that?

FFS... this has got to be a whole new level of childish behaviour...  "They said his name more than his... na na na na"  

You can do one and all, No.9!

Griff wrote:

No9 wrote:

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Griff wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Quite depressing all round - not least some of the jingoism and wumming on these boards.

I stopped reading the BBC website live feed after a while because I didn't need an update on how Liam Williams was playing every 3 minutes. They really have no balance and very little quality control.

Why on earth make the reserves fly for 5 hours if all they were going to do was sit on a bench? Just very sad.

I too 'watched' the game via the BBC live updates, George.  I have to say that I did not notice Liam Williams in particlarl being singled out for any mpre praise or criticism than others, which you seem to be suggesting?  I didn't think he was treated differently. Yes they mentioned he had a good game.  But then even the NZ media (See Pete's link) scored him as one of the standout Lions players.  They scored him 8/10.  Only Nowell got higher (8.5).  And they mentioned Nowell quite a bit too.  Why wouldn't the BBC comment on Williams' good performance?  Finally a player that made some clean breaks and set up some tries.  That's what we've been calling for for the past few weeks, isn't it?

I had to watch those updates too and think I seen Liam Williams mentioned once.

The word "Williams" appears in the live text 36 times, more than any other back (Nowell was second with 27).

Yes Grifty - I was referring to the Scrum V propaganda on the BBC live feed. Liam Williams is mentioned 11 times.

Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan but there were almost 50 other players involved.

Nowell 27 though.  Why not pick up on that?

FFS... this has got to be a whole new level of childish behaviour...  "They said his name more than his... na na na na"  

You can do one and all, No.9!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I personally think Biggar should start the 1st test at 10.

He has been the best fly half for the Lions on tour. Sexton hasn't ever really fired and Farrell hasn't done much else either.

Biggar should start the test on merit on Saturday with Sexton on the bench IMO and Russell and Farrell should play against the Canes with Russell at 10 and Farrell at 12 to see if they can unlock some space for the back 3 and force their way into contention for test 2.

Really?

All you seem to see Mikey is whether a player is Welsh or not, heaven forbid someone thinking Sexton and Farrell are better than Biggar.

I didnt like how the Welsh lads were called up but all in all I think Gatland and co. deserve some credit. The squad has gelled well it seems and they do seem, both the first team and mid week team, to be approaching their best form at the right time.

I hated how the Lions played on the last tour as it was I felt too conservative and made the Aussies look better than they were. However, I feel like the game plan will work against the ABs and this will be a tight series. Here's hoping.

Scottrf wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Yes, he got the backline moving today, despite Greig Laidlaw's best efforts to rob us of any momentum.

What has Sexton done on tour, or Farrell for that matter to make anyone think they are the best option at 10?

Sexton has been ponderous at best, and Farrell has defended pretty well, and missed a couple of kicks.

It wasn't the case at the start but at least Biggar is creating something vaguely reminiscent of an attacking shape.

Farrell created a try and got us firing within minutes of his first appearance. Him and Sexton haven't been amazing, but judging too much on today's performance is unwise. These guys don't play for Chiefs.

He passed the ball. Moriarty made that try by successfully breaking the gain line.

Up until Farrell came on though the passes were all going astray and completely removing momentum. Farrell has looked the best bet for a starter so far. Biggar may have moved himself up a notch after today, not watched it yet, but doubt he'll be in the match day squad unless.Farrell doesn't recover.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Up until Farrell came on though the passes were all going astray and completely removing momentum. Farrell has looked the best bet for a starter so far. Biggar may have moved himself up a notch after today, not watched it yet, but doubt he'll be in the match day squad unless.Farrell  doesn't recover.

I think Sexton despite his bad game against the BaBas has been better than Farrell. Farrells missed kick against the Highlanders was a low point. Its pretty obvious though that Gatland is lining Farrell to start at 10.

Farrell tends to nail all the kicks in important games. Not sure I'd bother arguing kicks too much though as halfpenny will take them.

There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Farrell tends to nail all the kicks in important games. Not sure I'd bother arguing kicks too much though as halfpenny will take them.

I know the world has a horn for Barrett at the moment but either way I think having Farrell and Sexton on the team/bench is pretty formidable and I fancy Lions pack will make things hard for BB. Looking forward to this one.

If both start I'd probably go for 1/2P as kicker - given Farrell's injury he's probably had limited kicking time while recovering, which is far from ideal. It is fine margins at this level and that's enough to give it for 1/2P for me.

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

I agree guns the lions potentially have an amazing pack.

Either Farrell or halfpenny is fine for kicks. Both quality.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Russell's miss, 4 months ago when the ball fell off the tee... Farrell missed 2 sitters on this tour! He is a good kicker, but missing those kicks, well within his range and accuracy is alarming.

It's not. He's tended to do that in nothing games quite a lot. He's also not going to be kicking.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Russell's miss, 4 months ago when the ball fell off the tee... Farrell missed 2 sitters on this tour! He is a good kicker, but missing those kicks, well within his range and accuracy is alarming.

One of them arguably went over and the other was hardly a sitter, fair distance out and halfway to the touch line IIRC. Not hard but not a sitter.

Anyway they are all 80% kickers. Even if Bigger is kicking at 85%, that's 1 extra kick every 20. Why is that the deciding factor for picking a FH? Especially when they probably wont be kicking.

Scottrf wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Russell's miss, 4 months ago when the ball fell off the tee... Farrell missed 2 sitters on this tour! He is a good kicker, but missing those kicks, well within his range and accuracy is alarming.

One of them arguably went over and the other was hardly a sitter, fair distance out and halfway to the touch line IIRC. Not hard but not a sitter.

By Farrell's standards. They are sitters. I wonder if he's been carrying that hammy niggle all tour?

This "My country's 10 is the best" business is fun

Long live parochialism

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This "My country's 10 is the best" business is fun

Long live parochialism

In this instance, my country's 12 is the best 10.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Russell's miss, 4 months ago when the ball fell off the tee... Farrell missed 2 sitters on this tour! He is a good kicker, but missing those kicks, well within his range and accuracy is alarming.

One of them arguably went over and the other was hardly a sitter, fair distance out and halfway to the touch line IIRC. Not hard but not a sitter.

By Farrell's standards. They are sitters. I wonder if he's been carrying that hammy niggle all tour?

Very likely. Seems to be frequent that Farrell carries a knock. Doesn't like to acknowledge it. Too proud and unsurprisingly hungry to play regardless of whether he's fully fit or not. Natural for a player to be like that but it can hamper a team's performance. It's generally obvious to tell.

It's one of his weaknesses, he wants to play when he should take a rest to make sure he's fully fit.

robbo277 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:This "My country's 10 is the best" business is fun

Long live parochialism

In this instance, my country's 12 is the best 10.

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

He is though, even for Sarries towards the end of the season he missed kicks he normally doesn't

20 min into the match Biggar has thrown a ball to ground 10 metres from chiefs line and is appealing for obstruction arms flailing. I hope he gets better or I have no idea what people are praising him for!

And Lawes still knocking on while carrying. Really needs to improve that happens far too often. Then Biggar kicking straight to touch with an ill judged kick.

Had a good half break for Nowell try though.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Up until Farrell came on though the passes were all going astray and completely removing momentum. Farrell has looked the best bet for a starter so far. Biggar may have moved himself up a notch after today, not watched it yet, but doubt he'll be in the match day squad unless.Farrell  doesn't recover.

I think Sexton despite his bad game against the BaBas has been better than Farrell. Farrells missed kick against the Highlanders was a low point. Its pretty obvious though that Gatland is lining Farrell to start at 10.

I think the first game v. Barbarians should be forgotten because they were just off the plane and some may have been hit harder by jetlag than others.

Apart from anything else, Laidlaw was BaaBaas SH! Conor Murray makes all his OHs look better, so anyone starting with him as their SH will look better. I think the British Press are lining up Farrell to start at 10 in fairness - possibly because Teo will be outside him.

It is very strange here, as everyone I speak to actually said Laidlaw had a good game (in England) - not watched it and not saying he should be in the test squad, but strange how people watch a game and see a completely different one to the person next to them :-)

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:There's been more focus on Farrell's kick vs the Highlanders than any since Wilko's drop goal. He's an excellent kicker, it doesn't mean he's on bad form.

Exaggerating a tad?

Nah, which other kicks compete? It's a reason to keep Farrell out of the test side but Russell's miss from 10m in front of the posts in the 6 Nations isn't

Russell's miss, 4 months ago when the ball fell off the tee... Farrell missed 2 sitters on this tour! He is a good kicker, but missing those kicks, well within his range and accuracy is alarming.

Doesn't Farrell have some sort of a leg strain which would affect his kicking?

R!skysports wrote:It is very strange here, as everyone I speak to actually said Laidlaw had a good game (in England) - not watched it and not saying he should be in the test squad, but strange how people watch a game and see a completely different one to the person next to them :-)

Laidlaw (or any of the SHs) are not Conor Murray who takes a huge amount of pressure off the OH.

Murray's kicking has been decent.

He's a poor passer of the ball though. Ponderous and inaccurate.

Murray will suit Gatlandball though. He's quite a bit like Phillips.

Cyril wrote:Murray's kicking has been decent.

He's a poor passer of the ball though. Ponderous and inaccurate.

Murray will suit Gatlandball though. He's quite a bit like Phillips.

Like this pass on 47 seconds in the video in this article

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/champions-cup/watch-conor-murrays-nolook-pass-for-simon-zebos-try-needs-to-be-watched-over-and-over-35283713.html

Cyril wrote:Murray's kicking has been decent.

He's a poor passer of the ball though. Ponderous and inaccurate.

Murray will suit Gatlandball though. He's quite a bit like Phillips.

His passing is extremely accurate actually but I can see why people say he is ponderous. Since his arm injury in the Six Nations he has thrown a few bad passes. Hopefully that gets sorted for next season.

On this tour Murray's passing has not been very good. World class kicking, but his passes have not always been great and has stunted the attack somewhat.

After a brief tea break 37 min Biggar leads with a high swinging arm which as the opposition player slips he avoids a yellow and merely loses a pen. Seriously anyone thinking Biggar enhanced himself after this, have a word with yourself.

Griff wrote:On this tour Murray's passing has not been very good. World class kicking, but his passes have not always been great and has stunted the attack somewhat.

Agreed, but as I said above this can be attributed to the serious injury he sustained in the Six Nations which I don't believe he has fully recovered from. Prior to that his passing has been immaculate.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Griff wrote:On this tour Murray's passing has not been very good. World class kicking, but his passes have not always been great and has stunted the attack somewhat.

Agreed, but as I said above this can be attributed to the serious injury he sustained in the Six Nations which I don't believe he has fully recovered from. Prior to that his passing has been immaculate.

Well that's not great is it! It would be like a prop who was injured and now cannot scrummage properly! Awesome, awesome player. But if he's struggling for pass accuracy then it kinda hinders us a bit.

No, it isn't, and like I said I do hope that he can fully recover next season.

We've got a captain who is struggling for form/fitness, the probable stand-in captain who isn't in the top 4 locks, a scrum-half who can't pass and a bunch of new Lions who have to go to training with name badges on.

We just need Rory 'Where's The Board?' Best to bring his wonky darts to the party and we're laughing.

And jones comes on pushes someone in back and could have given a pen away ahead of our pen try. And that would have prevented a yellow. Pretty lucky that indiscipline didn't cost us.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:No, it isn't, and like I said I do hope that he can fully recover next season.

How is it not like that example?! Player has a key role for his position (be it jumping, scrummaging, passing, speed, whatever), has an injury and then cannot do that role as well as before. I didn't know about the arm injury, it was you who suggested that was why he wasn't passing as well this tour! I want him to pass as well as he's done in the past! I want to beat the All Blacks!

Rory was agreeing with your 'Well that's not great is it!' statement, Griff

Lovely team try. People making all the right decisions. Back 3 all making good contributions. Good clear outs. Hopefully the first team have the go ahead to go with moves like that.

Seriously another mis control by Biggar and a knock on on 62 min....who honestly thinks that he was pushing for a place? Why?

Cyril wrote:Rory was agreeing with your 'Well that's not great is it!' statement, Griff

Whoops! If so, apologies Rory!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Farrell tends to nail all the kicks in important games. Not sure I'd bother arguing kicks too much though as halfpenny will take them.

Didn't he miss a couple in the semi versus Exeter?

Not sure david did he? Just finished the match. Moot point now Biggar was average at best. He's jo where near challenging a 1st team spot unless Farrell is injured. Again kicking doesn't come into it if halfpenny as expected is picked. Williams looked a different player at full albeit against a poor team today.