Chiefs v British & Irish Lions, 20 June

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Chiefs v British & Irish Lions
20 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

1993-06-29 
Waikato 38 - 10 British and Irish Lions

1983-07-12
Waikato 13 - 40 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-16
Waikato 13 - 18 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Chiefs
1. Siegfried Fisi'ihoi (24)
2. Liam Polwart (2)
3. Nepo Laulala (11)
4. Dominic Bird (25)
5. Michael Allardice (20)
6. Mitchell Brown (14)
7. Lachlan Boshier (15)
8. Tom Sanders (19)

9. Finlay Christie (6)
10. Stephen Donald (c) (100)
11. Solomon Alaimalo (6)
12. Johnny Faauli (5)
13. Tim Nanai-Williams (82)
14. Toni Pulu (21)
15. Shaun Stevenson (21)

16. Hika Elliot (116)
17. Aidan Ross (2)
18. Atu Moli (24)
19. Liam Messam (159)
20. Mitchell Karpik (5)
21. Jonathan Taumateine (6)
22. Luteru Laulala (0)
23. Chase Tiatia (0)

British & Irish Lions
15. Liam Williams
14. Jack Nowell
13. Jared Payne
12. Robbie Henshaw
11. Elliot Daly
10. Dan Biggar
9. Greig Laidlaw

8. CJ Stander
7. Justin Tipuric
6. James Haskell
5. Courtney Lawes
4. Iain Henderson
3. Dan Cole
2. Rory Best (captain)
1. Joe Marler

16. Kristian Dacey
17. Allan Dell
18. Tomas Francis
19. Cory Hill
20. Alun Wyn Jones
21. Gareth Davies
22. Finn Russell
23. Tommy Seymour

C. PREVIEW

Fair enough then. It's a hard job defending gatland.

Not sure how Halfpenny has gotten all this criticism, he's had long spells injured and when I've seen him play for Toulon he has been very good. Don't think he's missed a kick this tour either.

Gatland could have tactics spot on, defence is looking very good and with a gk'er of Halfpenny's quality they do have a chance in the first test. Wouldn't mind a bit of rain Saturday though.

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

R!skysports wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

And the Scots have been going on since the '97 tour!

No9 wrote:...the bit that has taken me back this time is the vile words being said by past Lions...

JPR Williams set a precedent there. Here he is, speaking with Gavin Henson, and happily recalling the abuse he heaped on Woodward when the 2005 tour was barely under way.

Let's talk about the Lions. I take no pleasure from saying this, but I predicted before the series that it would all go horribly wrong...It was a disgrace. Were you aware of the stick that Clive Woodward was taking back home? I think I might have started it!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2005/nov/06/rugbyunion.features

R!skysports wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I wonder if anyone will change their mind about this if we actually beat the Chiefs.

Obviously not when some are still whining about 2013.

And others about 2005

Yeah some haven't moved on from that either. The difference being that 2013 was a win, and 2005 a horrible loss. Like No9 alluded to there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey, taking his mates on holiday, etc. compared with Gatland who's doing what's necessary in the most demanding schedule we've seen in the professional era. Either way I think people should also move on from 2005.

mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...

No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

I'm hopeful that those starting XV players tomorrow come out all guns blazing like the teams that have played on Saturdays. Although it's unlikely they will play this Saturday, they can easily force their way in for the 2nd and 3rd tests.

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...

No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...

If any coach did what Gatland did he would get a hard time, regardless of what nationality he coached. All the talk of how special it is to get a shirt and marketed as the 'untouchables', just makes a mockery of what it means to be a Lion.

Should have just taken out 3-4 extra players at the start - guys like Hartley, Launchbury are so much more deserving to wear the red shirt. Even if the Lions win the series, I don't agree with this at all.

I hope the midweek plodders give us something to cheer about today.

It's been a trying few days down here since Lions shirts get handed out like free drinks at a wedding.

Not sure how Halfpenny has gotten all this criticism, he's had long spells injured and when I've seen him play for Toulon he has been very good. Don't think he's missed a kick this tour either.

He is a fine player but a bit too "steady Eddie" for many of us. With attacking options like loopy Liam around many of us want to see a counter attacking fullback not a safty first full back. It makes me want to cry every time I see him kick away ball that could have been counter attacked

It just seems too conservative to highlight 1/2ps kicking, as good as he is from the tee their are more attacking options at full back. From the tee he's worth about 3 points more than Farrell but does that compensate for Williams or Watson being more likely to create something on the counter?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...

No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...

No no no

Please stop the victim card ad every turn. It is starting to sound like trumpism.

We keep highlighting player (including the Welsh ) who are playing well but you still shout the anti Welsh rubbish

Some of us do. Not like his style of rugby and safety first but that is not anti Welsh

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It just seems too conservative to highlight 1/2ps kicking, as good as he is from the tee their are more attacking options at full back. From the tee he's worth about 3 points more than Farrell but does that compensate for Williams or Watson being more likely to create something on the counter?

The issue is with those two is that you lose a degree of defence. Halfpenny is certainly a great place kicker, but also has a fantastic kick out of hand under pressure, as well as being a fantastically positioned fullback most of the time. He may not be as sexy attacking wise, and I probably would have liked to see Williams given more of a run there for Wales, but with no Hogg, he's the only regular international fullback left in the squad.

R!skysports wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:...there doesn't seem be many ex-players who had accused Sir Clive of de-valuing the jersey...

No, it was worse than that. The fundamental criticism of Woodward, from the likes of Ian McGeechan, Eddie O'Sullivan, Paul O'Connell and Matt Dawson, was that Woodward had misunderstood the very idea of the Lions, not just that he showed favouritism. The press felt he had put the entire concept in jeopardy, and it took the 2009 tour to put things back on an even keel.

It was nigh on impossible for anyone to accuse Woodward of busing in fodder Lions because so much had been invested in ridiculing him for taking a big squad in the first place. You can't take a man to task for not having enough players when you've already said he has too many.

Some former Lions seem to believe that the main reason Gatland made these late call-ups is because he wanted to avoid comparison with the size of Woodward's party. After all, he always knew he wanted to protect the First Test 23, which he was in no position to do with only 41 players available.

That sounds about right but I don't remember it. With all this in mind it makes me wonder why a winning coach like Gatland gets such a hard time. I think it's something to do with who he coaches; no not the Lions...

No no no

Please stop the victim card ad every turn. It is starting to sound like trumpism.

We keep highlighting player (including the Welsh ) who are playing well but you still shout the anti Welsh rubbish

Some of us do. Not  like his style of rugby and safety first but that is not anti Welsh

We simply will not win if we try to score more tries than the AB's. Wales tried it last summer, they played some of the best attacking rugby that I have seen from them in years. While it stayed fairly close for 50 minutes, the AB's ended up blowing Wales away.

I don't think there's one style to beat any team even new zealand. We have the pack to be able to get good control.over this game and 2 fly half's who can take advantage get us into the right areas and play. Yes the midfield.is one dimensional at the present but that back 3 are quality players.

Aggressions the main thing I guess, aggression and being clinical. When England and Ireland beat NZ they were both able to knock NZ back and stop their momentum throughout the game, something I think the Lions can do. BUT both teams were also able to match NZ for tries, never letting NZ get on a role or score in tandem. I don't think the Lions can do this.

Yes, yes. Your tongues look lovely. Can we get on with the game please?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, yes. Your tongues look lovely. Can we get on with the game please?

Hey, the Lions' management requested that all the Super Franchises do a Haka so the players could be used to it in time for the tests. Don't blame us

Deserved yellow? Sounds it from the radio.

What a complete plonker. Marler isn't the sharpest, is he?

Marler is a knobb

RDW_Scotland wrote:Deserved yellow? Sounds it from the radio.

No doubt. A clear late shoulder charge. Completely mindless stuff.

It's alright lads Alan Dell is on!

That's Marler's test spot gone, and perhaps his tour if he gets a citing. That was idiotic to be polite about it.

What did he do?

Serious question

Who is the bigger plonker

Marler or Brown?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What did he do?

Late shoulder charge.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:What did he do?

Late shoulder charge.

It was later than that even.

On a serious note though, that could end his tour if cited, he knew exactly what he was doing there. Oh well.

Told you - Alan Dell dominating!

Alan Dell did not disgrace himself in his first Lions scrum!

Joking aside Dell has become a solid international prop this season with Scotland - it's not a huge surprise!

Ben Kay giving Dell the credit for the penalty too.

In all fairness I have never noticed him, but he is really showing his credentials out there today, fair play to the kid. Has he always been this decent or has he come on a lot lately ?

RDW_Scotland wrote:Joking aside Dell has become a solid international prop this season with Scotland - it's not a huge surprise!

Ben Kay giving Dell the credit for the penalty too.

Good decision by Gats to call him up

LordDowlais wrote:In all fairness I have never noticed him, but he is really showing his credentials out there today, fair play to the kid. Has he always been this decent or has he come on a lot lately ?

At the start of this season he was 3rd choice loosehead at Edinburgh never mind a regular for Scotland! He's greatly benefited from Alan Dickinson and Rory Sutherland (last season's number 1 and 2 for Scotland) pretty much being inured all season. He was thrown in at the deep end against Australia in the Autumn Internationals and played well and I think he's been involved in every Scotland game this season whether starting or on the bench.

He's not the biggest but has good technique and is dynamic around the pitch.

Rory Best is standing out well as captain so far as well, he is calling all the shots around him and he is taking the game to the Chiefs.

Sounds like the Chiefs lineout has been terrible.

Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.

ebop wrote:Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.

What ?

Chiefs line out has been amateur at best, why is it never the fault of anything New Zealand in rugby when things are going wrong for them ?

Just saying it's poor form

Chiefs line out has been rubbish, not disputing that

ebop wrote:Lions forwards back to screaming like little girls on the oppositions line out. Poor sportsmanship.

The things people focus on when losing

Finlay Christie, the Scottish SH for the Chiefs, is having a very good game, especially given the quality of ball he has been getting.

It's just funny, big forwards screaming like girls. We're not used it down in NZ. It's just a weak thing to do.

Haven't heard Henshaw's name being mentioned on the radio - how's he playing?

ebop wrote:It's just funny, big forwards screaming like girls. We're not used it down in NZ. It's just a weak thing to do.

So is getting food poisoning.

Sounds like a decent enough first half from the Lions - could do with getting a bigger lead to avoid the inevitable last 15 capitulation!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Haven't heard Henshaw's name being mentioned on the radio - how's he playing?

He is not playing himself into the Test team!

Nowells might be though, he is playing much better. Done more this half than George North has on the whole tour so far!

Ok scott, let's leave it now, your team is winning so just rejoice in that