Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June

by **George Carlin** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 7:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June - Page 2 Crusad10

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June - Page 2 Lions_10

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions
10 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Rugby League Park, Christchurch

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

2 June 1993: Canterbury 10 - 28 British & Irish Lions

28 June 1983: Canterbury 22 - 20 British & Irish Lions

25 June 1977: Canterbury 13 - 14 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Crusaders
I Dagg, S Tamanivalu, J Goodhue, D Havili, G Bridge, R Mo'unga, B Hall, J Moody, C Taylor, O Franks, L Romano, S Whitelock (capt), H Bedwell-Curtis, M Todd, J Taufua.

Replacements: B Funnell, W Crockett, M Alaalatoa, Q Strange, J Brown, M Drummond, M Hunt, T Bateman.

British & Irish Lions
S Hogg; G North, J Davies; B Te'o, L Williams; O Farrell; C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong; AW Jones (capt), G Kruis; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, T Faletau

Replacements: K Owens, J McGrath, D Cole, M Itoje, CJ Stander, R Webb, J Sexton, A Watson

C. PREVIEW

by **LondonTiger** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:44 am

munkian wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
munkian wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Wonder if we will get a captain from the other 3 nations this tour.

Why does that matter ? They are all Lions.

Team cohesion, perception of fairness etc

I'm sure the actual players are less childish than some of the fans and it doesn't really affect them.

In the team named to play the Crusaders, AWJ was the obvious choice to captain. He is the only national captain playing and has done the job before. I think Owens was the only regular club captain in yesterdays team, so makes sense he skippered the side. Best and Laidlaw were selected alongside the tour captain so that was a no brainer, both though will get their chance in a midweek game soon, as the 3 captains named so far will all be in the team for T1.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:44 am

Scottrf wrote:Could put North at 13 if Davies doesn't play well

Farrell used to play 13 for Sarries IIRC?

by Scottrf Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:46 am

LondonTiger wrote:In the team named to play the Crusaders, AWJ was the obvious choice to captain. He is the only national captain playing and has done the job before. I think Owens was the only regular club captain in yesterdays team, so makes sense he skippered the side. Best and Laidlaw were selected alongside the tour captain so that was a no brainer, both though will get their chance in a midweek game soon, as the 3 captains named so far will all be in the team for T1.

I hope not. I wouldn't pick AWJ for the Saints team, and other locks are in fantastic form.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:47 am

JD was due a start, and what I saw for the Scarlets he is the form 13. This is a great oppertunity for JD2.

I also hope that Hogg from fullback, having already played with Teo, can now anticipate his runs and support him from deep.

Teo had a stormer against the Barbarians and broke the gain line well and linked up with Hogg a couple of times. Bringing Williams in off his wing too and we might create something for Hogg and North to Exploit.

It's IMO the strongest side we have seen so far.

by Guest Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:48 am

BigGee wrote:
George Carlin wrote:That looks more like a Test match Lions side to me now.

If that back three cannot score tries we are fecked.

They are only going to score tries if the centres pass them the ball. Hopefully JD2 will stay in Scarlet's mode for the game and do just that. If not, all may be lost.

Just a bit of variation would be good. We saw yesterday that the Blues would bypass their centres with a kick to the winger. Would love to see North getting on the end of some of those. Also, they were happy to again bypass the centres and fling the ball to the wing (e.g. the first try), if it's on. Shipping along the line isn't always needed! But we need players to look up and see what's on to be able to do that. Variety will keep the opposition on their toes and keep the defense 'honest'. Without variation the opposition can defend narrowly and the gaps through the middle become smaller and we struggle to make ground.

So: heads up rugby, variety, trying something different. That's what we need. And I think we have the forwards to secure us enough possession to allow us chances to do that.

by TightHEAD Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:51 am

At least with Farrell at 10 we have a little bit of hope that we might look a bit more organised.

But if we keep kicking the ball away after spending large parts of the game without it we deserve to lose heavily.

by TightHEAD Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:57 am

Griff wrote:

So: heads up rugby, variety, trying something different. That's what we need. And I think we have the forwards to secure us enough possession to allow us chances to do that.

Gatland will not allow that to happen.

by yappysnap Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:59 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Could put North at 13 if Davies doesn't play well

Farrell used to play 13 for Sarries IIRC?

Definitely not! Don't start giving Gats ideas...

by EST Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:18 am

Looking at that team, i'm struck by how reliant we are on Farrell. Still, if he can create space for our outside backs, then we should be competitive.

by beshocked Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:30 am

Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

by Scottrf Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:32 am

beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Don't worry, creativity isn't going to be high on the priority list.

Hopefully these starters can play the set piece/territorial game more accurately.

by munkian Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:43 am

Scottrf wrote:
beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Don't worry, creativity isn't going to be high on the priority list.

Hopefully these starters can play the set piece/territorial game more accurately.

Agreed, you wont get any kind of 'sexy' rugby till all the basics click and there's a platform to work from.

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 08 Jun 2017, 10:48 am

For those unfamiliar with the Crusaders, watch out for young Goodhue at 13 and David Havili who will fill in for the concussed Ryan Crotty at 12 but who has kept Dagg out of the fullback position.

They've had a stellar season and have been instrumental in changing the Nadolo-biased attack of previous years and made genuine threats across the park. When you add in Tamanivalu who also pops up in the centres as cover but is playing on the wing and you have genuine strike power. The guy never likes to hold the ball with one hand. It infuriates me and enthralls me in equal measure!

The rookie Bridge has made a few gaffes on his last outings but he's got plenty of zip and Dagg will be out to impress so the backline will be lethal if they are allowed to make line breaks like they have been making in Super rugby. I wish Drummond would start at 9 instead of Hall but you can't have everything.

It's a pity Samu's out with a leg injury but that forward pack is formidable. They also love a good rolling maul so it'll be very interesting to see how the Lions combat a strength of their own. Sam Whitelock is in imperious form and it'll be interesting to see if he takes up a Kieran-Read role out in the wider channels.

The Crusaders are very good at making breaks up through the middle and that gives them options to finish off moves on either side. This really is going to be an unofficial test for the Lions so I'm hoping they bring their best to the occasion and, in turn, they bring out the best in this Crusaders team who just don't know how to lose this year.

In case you didn't see it, look at this drop goal from their diminutive replacement flyhallf on full-time last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFUSa_XB730

by TightHEAD Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:18 am

Looks like freedom of speech has died today, on the day of the General Election too.

Let's hope the Players voices are not silenced by the tour management, I hope they have had a players meeting already and discussed tactics of how they want to play.

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:23 am

Not so much freedom of speech but, rather, repetition of speech. Hug

We all know how you feel. And it's a point worth making again. Just not again and again and again and again...

But good on you for standing up for what you believe and refusing to cow in the face of stern protest.

by **RDW** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:24 am

It's not a lack of freedom of speech, it is that the multiple threads that you posted were only going to go one way - mass bickering and wumming.

by TightHEAD Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:37 am

Oh isn't the tour wonderful so far, so glad I shelled out a load of money to watch it, truly a once in a life time experience to watch such wonderful rugby being played, everything is wonderful within the Lions camp today.

Lets only think happy thoughts, hold hands and dance around In a circle.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:43 am

TightHEAD wrote:Oh isn't the tour wonderful so far, so glad I shelled out a load of money to watch it, truly a once in a life time experience to watch such wonderful rugby being played, everything is wonderful within the Lions camp today.

Lets only think happy thoughts, hold hands and dance around In a circle.

You really have nothing better to do than post this sort of puerile crud on the internet?

by yappysnap Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:51 am

The Lions are nursing a "couple of knocks" from their defeat to the Blues on Wednesday with Dan Biggar going through the return-to-play protocols after a head knock and Ross Moriarty still recovering from a back spasm. Jared Payne is also on the road to recovery after being forced off with a tight calf on Wednesday.

But Warburton's omission from the matchday squad for the Crusaders game was a surprise.

by robbo277 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:53 am

beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Agree with most of your post, but the combination of Farrell, Te'o and Joseph has had 5 minutes of test rugby together. It's not an established combo by any means.

by munkian Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:57 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Oh isn't the tour wonderful so far, so glad I shelled out a load of money to watch it, truly a once in a life time experience to watch such wonderful rugby being played, everything is wonderful within the Lions camp today.

Lets only think happy thoughts, hold hands and dance around In a circle.

You really have nothing better to do than post this sort of puerile crud on the internet?

Are we supposed to believe he's actually in NZ too ?

by Mad for Chelsea Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

I agree with those saying the backline especially has a feeling of Test starters to it. Would expect a few changes in the pack maybe, but definitely on paper the strongest side the Lions have put out so far. Hoping the backs can click and produce some attacking running rugby.

by robbo277 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 11:58 am

So what do we reckon on Warburton - missing this game due to injury? Will Gatland start him in one of the next two games, then wrap him in cotton wool until the tests?

By all accounts Tipuric played very well yesterday, and O'Brien gets his shot on Saturday, so we're not without options. Haskell too prefers 7 nowdays.

by beshocked Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:02 pm

robbo277 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Agree with most of your post, but the combination of Farrell, Te'o and Joseph has had 5 minutes of test rugby together. It's not an established combo by any means.

No it's not established but surely warm up games are to try out combinations? Also they have played together albeit not 10-12-13.

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Farrell partnered with both of them in the centres? Joseph as a starter and T,eo as an impact sub?

by **LondonTiger** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:10 pm

robbo277 wrote:So what do we reckon on Warburton - missing this game due to injury? Will Gatland start him in one of the next two games, then wrap him in cotton wool until the tests?

By all accounts Tipuric played very well yesterday, and O'Brien gets his shot on Saturday, so we're not without options. Haskell too prefers 7 nowdays.

Warburton is missing because Gats has stuck to his promise of giving every player a start. With 8 back rowers in the squad only one player would start two matches and withthe composition of th back rowers it makes sense that it is a No8.

by robbo277 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:14 pm

beshocked wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Agree with most of your post, but the combination of Farrell, Te'o and Joseph has had 5 minutes of test rugby together. It's not an established combo by any means.

No it's not established but surely warm up games are to try out combinations? Also they have played together albeit not 10-12-13.

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Farrell partnered with both of them in the centres? Joseph as a starter and T,eo as an impact sub?

I checked the last two series, and surprisingly not.

Against SA, Daly started ahead of Joseph.
Against Fiji and Australia Farrell came off for Te'o, so Te'o had a bit of time with Joseph, but outside Ford.
Against Argentina, Te'o didn't come on.

Against France, Te'o and Nowell came on for Ford and Joseph at the same time.
Against Wales and Scotland, Te'o came on for Joseph, so Farrell had a bit of time with Te'o, but at 12/13
Against Italy, Joseph was dropped and England started with Te'o outside Farrell at 13 again
Against Ireland, Te'o came on for Ford, to give us Farrell/Te'o/Joseph, but Joseph came off 5 minutes later for a winger. Ford came back on after a few minutes anyway, I think when Te'o got concussed.

So they've probably trained together a bit, but they haven't been tested.

I don't disagree with this selection. Like many, I was against Davies being selected before the tour, but since selection his form has improved, and he might be better to link with the Welsh wings.

If Davies doesn't play well, it's good to know we have Joseph as a back-up who can come in and hopefully hit the ground running with the players inside him. But this isn't a bad test midfield if we had to pick today.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:15 pm

beshocked wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Farrell has improved his attacking style but to rely on him as a creative force is a recipe for disaster.

He's not as creative as Ford or Russell.

At Saracens and England, there are two playmakers in the backline to mix things up plus I'd argue Farrell is used to working with more attacking 13s like Bosch,Taylor and Joseph.

I think it's odd to leave Joseph out when you pick Farrell and T'eo.

Agree with most of your post, but the combination of Farrell, Te'o and Joseph has had 5 minutes of test rugby together. It's not an established combo by any means.

No it's not established but surely warm up games are to try out combinations? Also they have played together albeit not 10-12-13.

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't Farrell partnered with both of them in the centres? Joseph as a starter and T,eo as an impact sub?

More to the point Gatland promised that each squad member would get a start in at least 1 of the 1st 3 games. So he's a bit constrained by his previous 2 selections

by robbo277 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:17 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
robbo277 wrote:So what do we reckon on Warburton - missing this game due to injury? Will Gatland start him in one of the next two games, then wrap him in cotton wool until the tests?

By all accounts Tipuric played very well yesterday, and O'Brien gets his shot on Saturday, so we're not without options. Haskell too prefers 7 nowdays.

Warburton is missing because Gats has stuck to his promise of giving every player a start. With 8 back rowers in the squad only one player would start two matches and withthe composition of th back rowers it makes sense that it is a No8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40197699
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/08/lions-team-face-crusaders-alun-wyn-jones-captain-side/

BBC and the Telegraph both reporting that Warburton wasn't considered because of a knock picked up last week.

I'd have thought Gatland would have at least had Warburton on the bench, or played one of the Irish flanks at 8 and given Warburton the start.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:18 pm

The 31 minutes that Farrell, Te'o, JJ got last Saturday is the longest they will have played together (probably more time than all other occasions added together?) - so Gats has tried this more the EJ.

by **LondonTiger** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:19 pm

robbo277 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
robbo277 wrote:So what do we reckon on Warburton - missing this game due to injury? Will Gatland start him in one of the next two games, then wrap him in cotton wool until the tests?

By all accounts Tipuric played very well yesterday, and O'Brien gets his shot on Saturday, so we're not without options. Haskell too prefers 7 nowdays.

Warburton is missing because Gats has stuck to his promise of giving every player a start. With 8 back rowers in the squad only one player would start two matches and withthe composition of th back rowers it makes sense that it is a No8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40197699
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/06/08/lions-team-face-crusaders-alun-wyn-jones-captain-side/

BBC and the Telegraph both reporting that Warburton wasn't considered because of a knock picked up last week.

I'd have thought Gatland would have at least had Warburton on the bench, or played one of the Irish flanks at 8 and given Warburton the start.

Fairy snuff.

by SamTheQuin Thu 08 Jun 2017, 12:52 pm

Anyone seen the Maori squad? Impressive.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:30 pm

The Lions team has a nice balance to it but this is a massive challenge. I really do think the decision not to take one of Ford/Russell could backfire. There's been a real lack of magic so far from the Lions on this tour, and the opposition teams on this tour have that in spades. The set piece is generally looking really strong, but we need to see a bit more invention.

Massive games for AWJ, L Williams and Hogg.

I expect the Crusaders to win this.

by robbo277 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:34 pm

You'd think that after this everyone will get a start in the next 3 games, but if you don't play on the 14th (Highlanders) or the 17th (Maori) and end up starting against the Chiefs on the 21st, you probably won't make the test team on the 24th.

The next two Lions line-ups at least will probably be picked en masse after this game from the 30 contenders who are still in contention for the first test squad. Big game to get in that 30.

by majesticimperialman Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:46 pm

AWJ to captain the lions this week end. I hope he is over his jet lag, and plays better than he did the other day.

Good luck to the lions for this next game. Cannot afford to go behind in terms of another game lost, or we will struggle to win the series in my opinion.

by The Great Aukster Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:57 pm

Cyril wrote:With Best out of the reckoning it'll be interesting which hooker stakes his claim.

Owens was good today, but George has his chance to get to number 1 against the Crusaders.

Owens' throwing was just as bad as Best's so that only leaves George who never throws to the tail.

It would help the Lions if they played the English front five though as they should know the calls and have them well practised.

by geoff999rugby Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:59 pm

robbo277 wrote:You'd think that after this everyone will get a start in the next 3 games, but if you don't play on the 14th (Highlanders) or the 17th (Maori) and end up starting against the Chiefs on the 21st, you probably won't make the test team on the 24th.

The next two Lions line-ups at least will probably be picked en masse after this game from the 30 contenders who are still in contention for the first test squad. Big game to get in that 30.

Spot on.

I don't think we will win this - happy to be wrong.

Crusaders are much better than the Blues - closer to the AB's than the Blues.

Highlanders and Maoris are must win games though

by geoff999rugby Thu 08 Jun 2017, 1:59 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Cyril wrote:With Best out of the reckoning it'll be interesting which hooker stakes his claim.

Owens was good today, but George has his chance to get to number 1 against the Crusaders.

Owens' throwing was just as bad as Best's so that only leaves George who never throws to the tail.

It would help the Lions if they played the English front five though as they should know the calls and have them well practised.

Agreed Best is out of the reckoning only in Cyrils alternative world

by No9 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 2:16 pm

Scottrf wrote:Wonder if we will get a captain from the other 3 nations this tour.

Was only thinking this myself a few minutes ago....

We do need another player to step up and take on Captain duty, maybe Laidlaw, Best or even Haskell, as we need to make sure the mid-week team has a consistent captain. Pointless giving it to those who will def feature in the tests... Whistle

by majesticimperialman Thu 08 Jun 2017, 2:43 pm

Just read that Warburton is out of this game with an Ankle niggle.

Hope this does not mean he is getting back to be injury prone because of the big games coming up. Fingers Crossed

by No9 Thu 08 Jun 2017, 2:50 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Just read that Warburton is out of this game with an Ankle niggle.

Hope this does not mean he is getting back to be injury prone because of the big games coming up.

Would hate to see Warb's losing out to injury again. Unlike many (non Welsh) on here, I actually think he didn't have a bad game, and he is a big game player and real leader. But, if he is unlucky, we have enough cover in the back row on tour. Its other positions we're really light on, fly-half being one, scrum-half the other and apart from Ken Owens (who I think will start the tests) not sure we have depth at hooker.

by kingelderfield Thu 08 Jun 2017, 3:11 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
robbo277 wrote:You'd think that after this everyone will get a start in the next 3 games, but if you don't play on the 14th (Highlanders) or the 17th (Maori) and end up starting against the Chiefs on the 21st, you probably won't make the test team on the 24th.

The next two Lions line-ups at least will probably be picked en masse after this game from the 30 contenders who are still in contention for the first test squad. Big game to get in that 30.

Spot on.

I don't think we will win this - happy to be wrong.

Crusaders are much better than the Blues - closer to the AB's than the Blues.

Highlanders and Maoris are must win games though

I'm a great believer in the psychological position of sides going into matches and while the Blues had nothing to lose and therefore were not under the same pressure as the Lions, the Crusaders by comparison are expected to win and as NZ's number 1 provincial set up will be under greater pressure and perhaps even will be over confident. Being the under dog can often psychologically relieve individuals and allow them to achieve.

Go Lions you romantic fools!

by **RiscaGame** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 6:47 pm

munkian wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Oh isn't the tour wonderful so far, so glad I shelled out a load of money to watch it, truly a once in a life time experience to watch such wonderful rugby being played, everything is wonderful within the Lions camp today.

Lets only think happy thoughts, hold hands and dance around In a circle.

You really have nothing better to do than post this sort of puerile crud on the internet?

Are we supposed to believe he's actually in NZ too ?

If he is, you'd hope he would have better things to do than regurgitate on here.

I miss posters like Hersh, Victor and Scrumpy

by **RiscaGame** Thu 08 Jun 2017, 6:49 pm

Surprised that people think Owens had a bad game at the lineout. He only missed one from memory and that seemed more like a slip. Guess Best is getting a lot of flak in various places, so some feel they have to stick up for him.

by thebandwagonsociety Thu 08 Jun 2017, 7:29 pm

George Carlin wrote:That looks more like a Test match Lions side to me now.

If that back three cannot score tries we are fecked.

I agree with you, with the exception of the flankers changing (and maybe Itoje in front of Kruis..maybe) the starting XV looks like Gatlands preferred selection.
He committed to giving everyone a start in the first 3 games, it feels like he chose the XV for this game to give full week recovery to his preferred players and then scattered the remaining names across the previous two fixtures.

by king_carlos Thu 08 Jun 2017, 7:50 pm

Lawes has been the pick of the locks to get a chance so far IMO. By a distance too, although that was made easier by how AWJ and Henderson struggled against the NZ BaaBaas.

by Gwlad Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:21 pm

EST wrote:Looking at that team, i'm struck by how reliant we are on Farrell. Still, if he can create space for our outside backs, then we should be competitive.

As we should be since he is the 10. picard

by mikey_dragon Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:23 pm

I wonder if Gats sees AWJ and Kruis as a test partnership? Personally I wouldn't separate Kruis and Itoje, and it'd be hard to leave out Lawes if he continues in this form. Itoje to 6, or was that 6N experiment considered a fail?

From what I've seen so far it looks as if a number of players have no pride in the jersey and are just here for a pay day. Henshaw and Payne didn't get out first gear on Wednesday so right now I expect the midfield for the ABs to be Farrell, Te'o, JD2 - that's assuming Davies has a stormer this Saturday, otherwise it's JJ.

I thought Owens went well too but he also had a familiar jumper in Tips, along with Itoje who also happens to be a good lineout jumper/caller. Best came on and in typical Rory Best fashion lost the most important lineout. This is why I would have selected Hartley over him.

by TightHEAD Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:27 pm

Morning all, cracking night with the fans out here, my headed is thumping this morning. but most like me are fearful if we try and play the same way against Crusaders we are going to get taught a very very harsh lesson in rugby. Fingers crossed the Lions management has seen the light and changed the tactics, but I'm not hopeful.

by aucklandlaurie Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:31 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Morning all, cracking night with the fans out here, my headed is thumping this morning. but most like me are fearful if we try and play the same way against Crusaders we are going to get taught a very very harsh lesson in rugby. Fingers crossed the Lions management has seen the light and changed the tactics, but I'm not hopeful.

Did one of the locals give you a slap?

by king_carlos Thu 08 Jun 2017, 9:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I wonder if Gats sees AWJ and Kruis as a test partnership? Personally I wouldn't separate Kruis and Itoje, and it'd be hard to leave out Lawes if he continues in this form. Itoje to 6, or was that 6N experiment considered a fail?

From what I've seen so far it looks as if a number of players have no pride in the jersey and are just here for a pay day. Henshaw and Payne didn't get out first gear on Wednesday so right now I expect the midfield for the ABs to be Farrell, Te'o, JD2 - that's assuming Davies has a stormer this Saturday, otherwise it's JJ.

I thought Owens went well too but he also had a familiar jumper in Tips, along with Itoje who also happens to be a good lineout jumper/caller. Best came on and in typical Rory Best fashion lost the most important lineout. This is why I would have selected Hartley over him.

Itoje played lock in the 6 Nations whilst wearing 6. He packed down in the second row at scrum time. He acted as secondary jumper in the centre of the line-out rather than the 3rd jumper being thrown up at the front or tail occasionally as a change up (this is the job performed by the third jumper since Borthwick has run the line-out). Lawes and Itoje were also performing the same role around the park as they would as locks regardless of the number on their backs.

Given where Itoje's strengths lie he was also working the same role in open play as he would as a lock. I.e. sticking close to the ruck and contact situations where he can be involved in as many tackles and rucks as possible, which is where he is so strong.

All that said he has the work rate and ability to cover enough ground to be an excellent blind side. Contrary to what some believed from the 6 Nations he is yet to be properly tested as a 6 at international level though.

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