Crusaders v British & Irish Lions, 10 June

First topic message reminder :

Crusaders v British & Irish Lions
10 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Rugby League Park, Christchurch

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

2 June 1993: Canterbury 10 - 28 British & Irish Lions

28 June 1983: Canterbury 22 - 20 British & Irish Lions

25 June 1977: Canterbury 13 - 14 British & Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Crusaders
I Dagg, S Tamanivalu, J Goodhue, D Havili, G Bridge, R Mo'unga, B Hall, J Moody, C Taylor, O Franks, L Romano, S Whitelock (capt), H Bedwell-Curtis, M Todd, J Taufua.

Replacements: B Funnell, W Crockett, M Alaalatoa, Q Strange, J Brown, M Drummond, M Hunt, T Bateman.

British & Irish Lions
S Hogg; G North, J Davies; B Te'o, L Williams; O Farrell; C Murray; M Vunipola, J George, T Furlong; AW Jones (capt), G Kruis; P O'Mahony, S O'Brien, T Faletau

Replacements: K Owens, J McGrath, D Cole, M Itoje, CJ Stander, R Webb, J Sexton, A Watson

C. PREVIEW

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:There are points for both I guess.

Anyways, we will see what Payne has to offer at 15 tomorrow. Just hope he doesn't have his standard 50min game before getting injured and have to go off.

How exactly is that his standard game?

He has had many games at international level where he is injured and has to go off the field recently. Maybe standard was inappropriate, my apologies but you cannot deny that he is injury prone.

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:There are points for both I guess.

Anyways, we will see what Payne has to offer at 15 tomorrow. Just hope he doesn't have his standard 50min game before getting injured and have to go off.

How exactly is that his standard game?

He has had many games at international level where he is injured and has to go off the field recently. Maybe standard was inappropriate, my apologies but you cannot deny that he is injury prone.

He had one game where he has went off injured for Ireland and that was with a life threatening kidney injury which he tried to play on for

For Ulster he has went off injured once earlier this season with a calf injury that flared up again in his last Lions game

How many games has he missed due to his injuries in the last 2 years and how many times has he returned from injury only to get injured again?

Just this tour he was in one team only to pull out last minute due to injury then the second game he was off injured...

I am not slating him but I do believe he is injury prone.

eirebilly wrote:How many games has he missed due to his injuries in the last 2 years and how many times has he returned from injury only to get injured again?

Just this tour he was in one team only to pull out last minute due to injury then the second game he was off injured...

I am not slating him but I do believe he is injury prone.

A freak near fatal injured kidney does not make him injury prone

He has a calf injury that flared up after he returned, when you spend too much time in bed almost dying your muscles tend to waste a little and these things can happen

I am sorry he got the kidney injury, do not try and make out that I think it is nothing. I have had one but to say it is nearly fatal is a bit extreme. My kidney injury caused me to be in hospital for 3 weeks but I was never near death from it...

The fact that he came back when obviously not fully fit (your words) is not very good and does make him injury prone...

Sexton is another player who seemingly comes back from injury too soon and now gets regularly injured...

I see Marty's up to his usual. Ignore him Billy. It's not possible to converse with him.

eirebilly wrote:I am sorry he got the kidney injury, do not try and make out that I think it is nothing. I have had one but to say it is nearly fatal is a bit extreme. My kidney injury caused me to be in hospital for 3 weeks but I was never near death from it...

The fact that he came back when obviously not fully fit (your words) is not very good and does make him injury prone...

Sexton is another player who seemingly comes back from injury too soon and now gets regularly injured...

It was near fatal though, just because yours wasn't doesn't mean his wasn't

I never said he didn't come back fully fit so not sure how you can say those are my words when they weren't, I said muscles waste so aren't are more susceptible to cramping and tightening I know this from experience

Griff wrote:I see Marty's up to his usual.  Ignore him Billy.  It's not possible to converse with him.

And what exactly is that then?

marty2086 wrote:

It was near fatal though, just because yours wasn't doesn't mean his wasn't

I never said he didn't come back fully fit so not sure how you can say those are my words when they weren't, I said muscles waste so aren't are more susceptible to cramping and tightening I know this from experience

If it was near fatal, why is he playing rugby again? Near fatal kidney incidents do not fully recover and any slight hit can cause damage. My kidney damage was quite serious which was a direct cause of my pulmonary oedema. That is pretty serious in my books but I was never in life threatening danger as the medical team had everything under control.

Your words were that he had wasted muscles due to this injury so by all accounts he was not fully fit...

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's no context to still pics. For the top one, hadn't he made a tackle across the other side of the pitch?

No he hadn't. Was stationary before a ruck and didn't get across. How would you explain the sun lounging pic?

The first pic, I was sure he also made a tackle on the other side of the pitch, will have to watch again. That try was not his fault positioning wise, it was Haskell who charged up out of the defensive line which left Nowell having to come in and cover Haskell's man which led to the overlap. You cannot blame him for Haskell's unexpected charge out of the defensive line.

Second pic, he actually had a very good position but missed tackles inform of him left him horribly exposed and that was some side step from the NZ player, not sure many could have done any better in that position.

Halfpenny is not my favourite 15 but I don't think he should be singled out like that.

He was singled out for praise by munkian and Scott countered that with the pics

So we are basing a player's entire test career on one game in scratch side that performed poorly ? Seems legit...

He wasn't 'singled out for praise' by me - he was unfairly singled out for criticism by yourself.

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

It was near fatal though, just because yours wasn't doesn't mean his wasn't

I never said he didn't come back fully fit so not sure how you can say those are my words when they weren't, I said muscles waste so aren't are more susceptible to cramping and tightening I know this from experience

If it was near fatal, why is he playing rugby again? Near fatal kidney incidents do not fully recover and any slight hit can cause damage. My kidney damage was quite serious which was a direct cause of my pulmonary oedema. That is pretty serious in my books but I was never in life threatening danger as the medical team had everything under control.

Your words were that he had wasted muscles due to this injury so by all accounts he was not fully fit...

I have no idea and definitely did not expect to see him back on the rugby field so soon especially as not long before there was talk of him maybe having to retire

yes muscles waste and he has serious wastage on his other leg from his Achilles injury, Gatland spoke about it last week, if you want to say he isn't fully fit that would be true of him and every player

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's no context to still pics. For the top one, hadn't he made a tackle across the other side of the pitch?

No he hadn't. Was stationary before a ruck and didn't get across. How would you explain the sun lounging pic?

The first pic, I was sure he also made a tackle on the other side of the pitch, will have to watch again. That try was not his fault positioning wise, it was Haskell who charged up out of the defensive line which left Nowell having to come in and cover Haskell's man which led to the overlap. You cannot blame him for Haskell's unexpected charge out of the defensive line.

Second pic, he actually had a very good position but missed tackles inform of him left him horribly exposed and that was some side step from the NZ player, not sure many could have done any better in that position.

Halfpenny is not my favourite 15 but I don't think he should be singled out like that.

He was singled out for praise by munkian and Scott countered that with the pics

So we are basing a player's entire test career on one game in scratch side that performed poorly ? Seems legit...

He wasn't 'singled out for praise' by me - he was unfairly singled out for criticism by yourself.

Nope, I criticised a few players so wasn't singled out

I didn't base it on one game, I based it on a career Scott picked a game

Keep up would you

marty2086 wrote:

munkian wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:There's no context to still pics. For the top one, hadn't he made a tackle across the other side of the pitch?

No he hadn't. Was stationary before a ruck and didn't get across. How would you explain the sun lounging pic?

The first pic, I was sure he also made a tackle on the other side of the pitch, will have to watch again. That try was not his fault positioning wise, it was Haskell who charged up out of the defensive line which left Nowell having to come in and cover Haskell's man which led to the overlap. You cannot blame him for Haskell's unexpected charge out of the defensive line.

Second pic, he actually had a very good position but missed tackles inform of him left him horribly exposed and that was some side step from the NZ player, not sure many could have done any better in that position.

Halfpenny is not my favourite 15 but I don't think he should be singled out like that.

He was singled out for praise by munkian and Scott countered that with the pics

So we are basing a player's entire test career on one game in scratch side that performed poorly ? Seems legit...

He wasn't 'singled out for praise' by me - he was unfairly singled out for criticism by yourself.

Nope, I criticised a few players so wasn't singled out

I didn't base it on one game, I based it on a career Scott picked a game

Keep up would you

Right, so your entire summary of his club, International and Lions career is 'all he can do is kick' ?

You should duo with Barnes for impartial insight like that.

With hogg doubtful, williams seem gly only considered as a wing it'll be interesting to see if Payne and Watson can put a little pressure on halfpenny for the starting spot. Watson has looked good when given the chance and even in the struggle of a first game looked good when he actually got the ball.

No 7&1/2 wrote:With hogg doubtful, williams seem gly only considered as a wing it'll be interesting to see if Payne and Watson can put a little pressure on halfpenny for the starting spot. Watson has looked good when given the chance and even in the struggle of a first game looked good when he actually got the ball.

Against NH opposition I would back Payne 100% but against SH opposition, I believe his best position is 13. You need his defensive co-ordination abilities in the midfield against SH opposition. He knows and reads their game excellently.

I have no issue if Halfpenny is going to start at 15 but I do like the look of Watson at 15.

George Carlin wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:Has Connor Murray been cited yet for reckless play?

It was mildly amusing to hear the crowd chanting "Off, Off, Off" when they say the relay on the big street.

If it had been a Crusaders elbow there would have been a red card and a subsequent citing for what was a complete accident. If World Rugby are serious about making the game safer then Murray should be cited. They're not of course because that would be ridiculous, so they should stop citing opponents for accidental contact and calling it reckless play.

I have absolutely no idea if you are being serious or if you are fishing...

Eh? , it is hypocritical of World Rugby to cite a player for say taking an opponent out in the air, yet if it was caused by a teammate that's fine. The trend in the Laws is to penalise more and more accidental collisions as though that in some way will make the game better. If a collision is accidental then it shouldn't be penalised irrespective of the colours of the shirts involved.

BTW some people take fishing seriously

Particularly fishermen.

If you have to spell the joke out then it's not funny... although I realise you did that to help the Kiwi posters