Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

First topic message reminder :

The pools for the 2019 rugby world cup will be drawn on the 10th May 2017 in Kyoto. Next Wednesday.

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams, New Zealand (1),  England (2),  Australia (3),  Ireland (4)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams Scotland (5),  France (6),  South Africa (7),  Wales (8)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams Argentina (9),  Japan (11),  Georgia (12),  Italy (15)

The remaining two bands will be made up of the eight qualifying seeds, with allocation to each band being based on the previous Rugby World Cup playing strength:
Band 4:
Americas 1, Europe 1, Oceania 1, Oceania 2
Band 5:
Africa 1, Americas 2, Europe/Oceania play-off, Repechage

Not sure how soon after the draw will the venues for each pool game be confirmed but hopefully soon enough.

Final Draw:
Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1 (Romania)
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1 (Namibia)
Repercharge Winner


Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA?)
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)
Americas 2 (Canada)

Oh well. Hopefully a slightly easier group than last time but we should be a better team as well.

Argentina for example have given us all sorts of problems numerous times.

The ABs have never lost a RWC pool game

Pressure will be on

It's the toughest draw England could get yet again.

Yes England currently hold the advantage over France and Argentina but both can raise their game in a RWC, especially Argentina.

ebop wrote:The ABs have never lost a RWC pool game

Pressure will be on

Hopefully SA will be a better side by then. They usually are.

Does anyone know when they draw the quarter finals and semi finals?

So is Oceana 2 likely to be Fiji or Samoa or Tonga?

Lump them in there to....mmmm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

ebop wrote:The ABs have never lost a RWC pool game

Pressure will be on

Hopefully SA will be a better side by then. They usually are.

That's what I mean

It could be a doozy that game

Amongst many many others

not a terrible draw for Scotland. Two teams we are certainly more than capable of beating, and 2 teams we have beaten last season. Quietly confident of that pool.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Does anyone know when they draw the quarter finals and semi finals?

Isn't it usually

A1 vs B2
B2 vs A1
C1 vs D2
D1 vs C2

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:not a terrible draw for Scotland. Two teams we are certainly more than capable of beating, and 2 teams we have beaten last season. Quietly confident of that pool.

I figures Scottish fans would be happy. Im sure you didnt want NZ and England more than anyone.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

BamBam wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Does anyone know when they draw the quarter finals and semi finals?

Isn't it usually

A1 vs B2
B2 vs A1
C1 vs D2
D1 vs C2

Yes thats what it was the last time.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

Well Japan have a super rugby side now that are reasonably competitive. They recently ran the Chiefs close in NZ.

ebop wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

ebop wrote:The ABs have never lost a RWC pool game

Pressure will be on

Hopefully SA will be a better side by then. They usually are.

That's what I mean

It could be a doozy that game

Amongst many many others

Could be a Ire v NZ quarter if you lose to SA and Ireland wins their group or if Ireland comes 2nd and NZ wins their group. Banana skin.............

..............for Ireland?

ebop wrote:The ABs have never lost a RWC pool game

Also, so far, all Cup winners have gone through their pools unbeaten.

It's usually been a given that you want to finish top of your group but, depending on the draw for the knock-out rounds, it might not pan out that way in Japan.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

Quite a bit, we were certainly quite comfortable when we toured there last summer in insane humidity for rugby.

Beating them 13-26 and 16-21 over the 2 fixtures.

"Happy" with Ireland, if you could say that. They are obviously an outstanding rugby team, but certainly don't have a hoodoo over us like England or New Zealand. I can't remember the last time we played Ireland at neutral venue, and matches between us tend to be thrilling affairs so I'm looking forward to that one.

couldn't get any worst for France with two of teams that caused the most problems in RWC (well aside NZ who are in another category anyway).
Argentina at the RWC is likely to be very different from the team we saw in the AIs or even the summer tour (France won there last time with a 2nd string team).

the schedule of this group is likely to make a difference as well and really hope the organizers make it fair.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

Quite a bit, we were certainly quite comfortable when we toured there last summer in insane humidity for rugby.

Beating them 13-26 and 16-21 over the 2 fixtures.

"Happy" with Ireland, if you could say that. They are obviously an outstanding rugby team, but certainly don't have a hoodoo over us like England or New Zealand. I can't remember the last time we played Ireland at neutral venue, and matches between us tend to be thrilling affairs so I'm looking forward to that one.

Believe it or not Ireland have never played Scotland at a neutral venue. Never met at the RWC or anywhere outside Ireland and Scotland. Sorry we did play Scotland at the 1991 RWC but that was in Murrayfield and Scotland won.

Ireland did play Japan at the 1991 RWC though. I was at that game.

England need to put their last two poor RWCs behind them.

Positive I guess is that France-Argentina isn't quite as dangerous as Australia-Wales.

Still plenty of time till the RWC though.

Think the squad should be in better shape for 2019 than 2011 or 2015.

France and Argentina have done better than England in the last two RWCs too

whocares wrote:couldn't get any worst for France with two of teams that caused the most problems in RWC (well aside NZ who are in another category anyway).
Argentina at the RWC is likely to be very different from the team we saw in the AIs or even the summer tour (France won there last time with a 2nd string team).

the schedule of this group is likely to make a difference as well and really hope the organizers make it fair.

+1


I reckon it'll be Japan vs Ireland as tournament opener, odds are they'll be fresher for their shot at Scotland than last time

Cannot complain about that group as a Welshman. Hope that Oceana 1 is Tonga for us. Australia are due a beating off us.

We should be second favourites to qualify from that group at least.

beshocked wrote:England need to put their last two poor RWCs behind them.

Positive I guess is that France-Argentina isn't quite as dangerous as Australia-Wales.

Still plenty of time till the RWC though.

Think the squad should be in better shape for 2019 than 2011 or 2015.

England avoid NZ/Ire/SA in the QFs if they get there too - Aus/Wales/Georgia/PI team are a bit easier prospect

Rather play SA than Australia or Wales unless they improve a lot.

Scottrf wrote:Rather play SA than Australia or Wales unless they improve a lot.

SA just need to replace their coach and they'll improve


Granted, Wales could improve by sacking Howley too

beshocked wrote:England need to put their last two poor RWCs behind them.

Positive I guess is that France-Argentina isn't quite as dangerous as Australia-Wales.

Still plenty of time till the RWC though.

Think the squad should be in better shape for 2019 than 2011 or 2015.

France and Argentina have done better than England in the last two RWCs too

2 years away, never underestimate France or Argentina.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

beshocked wrote:England need to put their last two poor RWCs behind them.

Positive I guess is that France-Argentina isn't quite as dangerous as Australia-Wales.

Still plenty of time till the RWC though.

Think the squad should be in better shape for 2019 than 2011 or 2015.

England avoid NZ/Ire/SA in the QFs if they get there too - Aus/Wales/Georgia/PI team are a bit easier prospect

I'd only want to avoid NZ to be honest. I'd like someone else to take out NZ, perhaps the Irish or French?

England still haven't beaten NZ in a RWC.

Technically haven't beaten Ireland either but haven't faced them surprisingly.

Really weird actually.

Our biggest rivals in the RWC are clearly the Aussies and the French - 3-3 and 3-2 respectively.

Inevitable really to face France again.


Geordiefalcon I am not underestimating Argentina or France - they'll be tough. Both punch above their weight in RWCs IMO.

France are 5th and Argentina 7th in terms of best overall performers in RWC.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

whocares wrote:couldn't get any worst for France with two of teams that caused the most problems in RWC (well aside NZ who are in another category anyway).
Argentina at the RWC is likely to be very different from the team we saw in the AIs or even the summer tour (France won there last time with a 2nd string team).

the schedule of this group is likely to make a difference as well and really hope the organizers make it fair.

+1


I reckon it'll be Japan vs Ireland as tournament opener, odds are they'll be fresher for their shot at Scotland than last time

payback time I suppose. that said not sure Japan will cause much problems to any tier 1 team... they seem to have lost a few key players without having near the same quality as backup.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Rather play SA than Australia or Wales unless they improve a lot.

SA just need to replace their coach and they'll improve


Granted, Wales could improve by sacking Howley too

SA rugby problems are much deeper than that.

Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

Scottrf wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Rather play SA than Australia or Wales unless they improve a lot.

SA just need to replace their coach and they'll improve


Granted, Wales could improve by sacking Howley too

SA rugby problems are much deeper than that.

So are Wales'

Scottrf wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Rather play SA than Australia or Wales unless they improve a lot.

SA just need to replace their coach and they'll improve


Granted, Wales could improve by sacking Howley too

SA rugby problems are much deeper than that.

True. But an incompetent coach doesn't help matters. Aus and Wales also have problems on the financial side

Avoiding the big guns isnt everything. Its worked out well for Ireland being a pot 1 team with about as soft a draw as they couldve hoped for. But England whilst avoiding the SANZARS are likely to face significant comeptition from France and Argentina and the 4th and 5th pot teams may have some level of threat too...definate potential to screw up again.
Wales dont have an easy group, but shouldnt have expected one as a lower seed.
Pool B although it has two SANZARS should be a procession through for both. Italy are no threat to either unless they have a significant resurgence and SA continue to decline.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

Quite a bit, we were certainly quite comfortable when we toured there last summer in insane humidity for rugby.

Beating them 13-26 and 16-21 over the 2 fixtures.

"Happy" with Ireland, if you could say that. They are obviously an outstanding rugby team, but certainly don't have a hoodoo over us like England or New Zealand. I can't remember the last time we played Ireland at neutral venue, and matches between us tend to be thrilling affairs so I'm looking forward to that one.

Believe it or not Ireland have never played Scotland at a neutral venue. Never met at the RWC or anywhere outside Ireland and Scotland. Sorry we did play Scotland at the 1991 RWC but that was in Murrayfield and Scotland won.

Ireland did play Japan at the 1991 RWC though. I was at that game.

I don't believe it actually. That's quite remarkable!

Argentina and France will be very dangerous in the RWC, England again with a tough tough group.

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1 (Romania)
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1 (Namibia)
Repercharge Winner


Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA?)
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)
Americas 2 (Canada)

If you look at my pre-draw post I go into more detail, but I think it will look something like:

Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Romania
Tonga

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Namibia
Spain


Pool C
England
France
Argentina
USA
Samoa

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Fiji
Uruguay

My information though had Oceania 2 as a Band 4 Country and Africa 1 as a Band 5 country. What that means is that England/France/Argentina pool gets (most likely Samoa) instead of a slightly easier game against Namibia. NZ are in danger of being under-cooked if South Africa don't get their act together between now and then though.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

There would be an open-top bus tour if Ireland got to the semi-finals.

I'm liking England's group. Should top it.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Thats true. Japan are decent now and will be at home so makes the task even bigger. Will be interesting to see how the summer tour goes.

I do wonder how much was the Jones effect as well.

Quite a bit, we were certainly quite comfortable when we toured there last summer in insane humidity for rugby.

Beating them 13-26 and 16-21 over the 2 fixtures.

"Happy" with Ireland, if you could say that. They are obviously an outstanding rugby team, but certainly don't have a hoodoo over us like England or New Zealand. I can't remember the last time we played Ireland at neutral venue, and matches between us tend to be thrilling affairs so I'm looking forward to that one.

Believe it or not Ireland have never played Scotland at a neutral venue. Never met at the RWC or anywhere outside Ireland and Scotland. Sorry we did play Scotland at the 1991 RWC but that was in Murrayfield and Scotland won.

Ireland did play Japan at the 1991 RWC though. I was at that game.

I don't believe it actually. That's quite remarkable!

Argentina and France will be very dangerous in the RWC, England again with a tough tough group.

head to head Scotland have won 67 games to Irelands 61 and Scotland won their only RWC match. 68 of the games have been in Scotland. Advantage Scotland?

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

There would be an open-top bus tour if Ireland got to the semi-finals.

I'm liking England's group. Should top it.

will there be an open top bus tour if England get out of their group?

Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

Gooseberry wrote:Avoiding the big guns isnt everything. Its worked out well for Ireland being a  pot 1 team with about as soft a draw as they couldve hoped for. But England whilst avoiding the SANZARS are likely to face significant comeptition from France and Argentina and the 4th and 5th pot teams may have some level of threat too...definate potential to screw up again.
Wales dont have an easy group, but shouldnt have expected one as a lower seed.
Pool B although it has two SANZARS should be a procession through for both. Italy are no threat to either unless they have a significant resurgence and SA continue to decline.

Gooseberry

Aside from Australia,Wales have it quite easy.

I'd say only Pool C is quite tough to predict who till be in the quarter finals even this far out.

I guess with Pool C you could say it's easier to top the pool but also much more likely to not make the 1/4 finals.

England,France and Argentina are all teams capable of runs to semi finals at least if they hit form.

There's no room for a poor performance.

Argentina's poor form after the 2015 RWC doesn't mean they'll be poor in the 2019 one. Argentina in 2015 were one of the teams of the tournament.

England need to have much better preparation this time round.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

There would be an open-top bus tour if Ireland got to the semi-finals.

I'm liking England's group. Should top it.

will there be an open top bus tour if England get out of their group?

I don't think we want to be comparing World Cup records do we, guns. Ireland's is rather modest. Can't see England getting smashed by Argentina like some sides...

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

There would be an open-top bus tour if Ireland got to the semi-finals.

I'm liking England's group. Should top it.

will there be an open top bus tour if England get out of their group?

definitely. however not sure there will be many players to fill the bus once you take into account the injury count given France, Argentina and even worst Samoa (if they are in this group) don't exactly play touch rugby...

Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

Unlikely I'd say. World cup hosting adds pressure. Just ask Lancaster. In addition Scotland rolled them over twice in the summer in horrific rugby conditions. We'll be fine and so will ireland.

Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:England need to put their last two poor RWCs behind them.

Positive I guess is that France-Argentina isn't quite as dangerous as Australia-Wales.

Still plenty of time till the RWC though.

Think the squad should be in better shape for 2019 than 2011 or 2015.

France and Argentina have done better than England in the last two RWCs too

2 years away, never underestimate France or Argentina.

Id say thats fair but England went into that draw as a pot 2 didnt they? This time as a pot 1 theyd have hjoped for a softer draw. Its not a disaster by any stretch but France tend to turn up at world cups much more so than other tests, and Argentina could be on another up turn by then.

Avoiding Aus and SA was definately a plus ...you always fancy that they could have a golden patch regardless of whos coaching, although both look to still be regressing currently and face significant structural problems at home.

beshocked wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Avoiding the big guns isnt everything. Its worked out well for Ireland being a  pot 1 team with about as soft a draw as they couldve hoped for. But England whilst avoiding the SANZARS are likely to face significant comeptition from France and Argentina and the 4th and 5th pot teams may have some level of threat too...definate potential to screw up again.
Wales dont have an easy group, but shouldnt have expected one as a lower seed.
Pool B although it has two SANZARS should be a procession through for both. Italy are no threat to either unless they have a significant resurgence and SA continue to decline.

Gooseberry

Aside from Australia,Wales have it quite easy.

I'd say only Pool C is quite tough to predict who till be in the quarter finals even this far out.

I guess with Pool C you could say it's easier to top the pool but also much more likely to not make the 1/4 finals.

England,France and Argentina are all teams capable of runs to semi finals at least if they hit form.

There's no room for a poor performance.

Argentina's poor form after the 2015 RWC doesn't mean they'll be poor in the 2019 one. Argentina in 2015 were one of the teams of the tournament.

England need to have much better preparation this time round.

There is potential for Pool D to be a near copy of the Group of Death last time, just with England dropping out and Georgia taking their place. If Wales got out of it last time, they should do so this.

Whoever gets out of Pool C will be evenly matched with their Pool D opponents. Any match-up between any of England/France/Argentina vs Australia/Wales could easily go either way on neutral territory. All 5 teams will be targeting semi-finals after this draw (and Fiji will be eyeing the quarters), such is the nature of ambition, so there will be a lot of disappointment!

Pool A has weak Band 4 and 5 teams, and a bit of an unknown with Japan at home in there, but both Ireland and Scotland will fancy progressing. The match between them will likely result in the winner missing the All Blacks in the quarters, so potentially big stakes. However, if South Africa are a force again by then, it may not really make as much difference either way.

Pool B will be an absolute cakewalk for the ABs unless SA get it together. I expect some huge scores in this group. Italy will definitely settle for third and automatic qualification again. Again, the Band 4 and 5 teams aren't that strong.

If I had to put money on now, I'd perhaps unsurprisingly go for the top seeds winning their pools unbeaten and progressing to the semis, but very few World Cups work out like that!

News just in...

Wayne Barnes has been penciled in to ref Ireland vs Scotland and NZ vs SA.

whocares wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

munkian wrote:Ireland out in the SFs - you heard it here first.

I would take that to be honest

There would be an open-top bus tour if Ireland got to the semi-finals.

I'm liking England's group. Should top it.

will there be an open top bus tour if England get out of their group?

definitely. however not sure there will be many players to fill the bus once you take into account the injury count given France, Argentina and even worst Samoa (if they are in this group) don't exactly play touch rugby...

Lucky then that England have a big player pool then..... if it's attrition I think Argentina should feel it the most.

Hopefully England should have a superior squad in 2019. In 2015 RWC too much reliance on certain players and lack of trust in others.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:Japan at home in Pool A mean one of Ireland or Scotland could easily go out. Interesting times!

I wonder if SA can get off the floor by 2019 to put any sort of challenge to NZ?

It is possible alright though I think both Scotland and Ireland will fancy their chances.

Well scotland almost always go out at group stages and frankly are more likley to regress to their usual position around the 8-10 ranking by that time then maintain their current nose bleed form. So its a strong draw for Japan as hosts, but Ireland should be happy to have pot 2 team theyd expect to beat most times on neutral territory.

Its only really the NZ/SA pool that looks a gimme for the top 2 though. Which is good for the comeptition.