Rugby World Cup 2019 Pool Draw

First topic message reminder :

The pools for the 2019 rugby world cup will be drawn on the 10th May 2017 in Kyoto. Next Wednesday.

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams, New Zealand (1),  England (2),  Australia (3),  Ireland (4)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams Scotland (5),  France (6),  South Africa (7),  Wales (8)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams Argentina (9),  Japan (11),  Georgia (12),  Italy (15)

The remaining two bands will be made up of the eight qualifying seeds, with allocation to each band being based on the previous Rugby World Cup playing strength:
Band 4:
Americas 1, Europe 1, Oceania 1, Oceania 2
Band 5:
Africa 1, Americas 2, Europe/Oceania play-off, Repechage

Not sure how soon after the draw will the venues for each pool game be confirmed but hopefully soon enough.

Final Draw:
Pool A
Ireland
Scotland
Japan
Europe 1 (Romania)
Europe2 (Russia?)/Oceania3 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool B
New Zealand
South Africa
Italy
Africa 1 (Namibia)
Repercharge Winner


Pool C
England
France
Argentina
Americas 1 (USA?)
Oceania 2 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)

Pool D
Australia
Wales
Georgia
Oceania 1 (Fiji/Samoa/Tonga)
Americas 2 (Canada)

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy

Well Ireland have won their last two RWC groups which have included France and Australia.

and been knocked out of the 1/4s by Wales and Argentina, Ireland never do well at RWCs.

Gwlad wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy

Well Ireland have won their last two RWC groups which have included France and Australia.

and been knocked out of the 1/4s by Wales and Argentina, Ireland never do well at RWCs.

fairly irrelevant in he context of group stage qualification.

I think Japan have a decent chance of getting out of their pool which as hosts seems to be a bare minimum achievement. If they can pull of a scoop and beat Irish and Scots then they'll avoid NZ and perhaps do a number on SA again.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:How come Wales and Ireland get easy groups?

Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy

Well Ireland have won their last two RWC groups which have included France and Australia.

and been knocked out of the 1/4s by Wales and Argentina, Ireland never do well at RWCs.

fairly irrelevant in he context of group stage qualification.

psssst, after Groups its knockout.

Gwlad wrote:I think Japan have a decent chance of getting out of their pool which as hosts seems to be a bare minimum achievement. If they can pull of a scoop and beat Irish and Scots then they'll avoid NZ and perhaps do a number on SA again.

I genuinely can't see that happening. Since Jones has left I can't really say they have kicked on, but 2 years is a long time in rugby and a lot of their players are getting exposure with the sunwolves.

However I don't think they have anything in their arsenal that would trouble Ireland or Scotland who both seem to be improving.

Really? Very good Gwlad.

Well its just a rather stupid remark to suggest that the knockouts are irrelevant since the entire objective is to avoid the winner of the corresponding group and have an easier quarter, kappisch?

Gwlad wrote:Well its just a rather stupid remark to suggest that the knockouts are irrelevant since the entire objective is to avoid the winner of the corresponding group and have an easier quarter, kappisch?

It isnt a stupid remark in the context of the original comment from Goosberry which was specifically in reference to the group stages:

"Its only their presence in those groups that makes them look easy"

Your comments about the KO stages however are fairly irrelevant and foolish though given the conversation specifically relates to how Ireland are perceived in the group stages.

No you're wrong.

Any conversation about the group stages is held in context of where placement in the group stages leads to in the knockout.

Point being any conversation about the group stages is irrelevant unless taken in context of the knockout stages, this being a World Cup where the group stages establish what happens next.

To make it easier for you, the RWC is not decided at the group stages.

Further Gooesberry's remark was following a stupid little Tighthead contribution about how Wales and Ireland have easy groups so Gooseberry's remark did not originate the conversation. This was followed by his equally stupid remark about presence in groups makes them look easier - amusing from an England fan who supports the only team ever to not have qualified from a RWC group as hosts, and then your post about how well Ireland have done in their groups which lead to mine pointing out that, though they had won their groups they had crashed out in defeat by the runner up of the corresponding group at the last two RWCs.

Hope this makes it easier for you to grasp.

Gwlad wrote:No you're wrong.

Any conversation about the group stages is held in context of where placement in the group stages leads to in the knockout.

Point being any conversation about the group stages is irrelevant unless taken in context of the knockout stages, this being a World Cup where the group stages establish what happens next.

To make it easier for you, the RWC is not decided at the group stages.

Further Gooesberry's remark was following a stupid little Tighthead contribution about how Wales and Ireland have easy groups so Gooseberry's remark did not originate the conversation. This was followed by his equally stupid remark about presence in groups makes them look easier - amusing from an England fan who supports the only team ever to not have qualified from a RWC group as hosts, and then your post about how well Ireland have done in their groups which lead to mine pointing out that, though they had won their groups they had crashed out in defeat by the runner up of the corresponding group at the last two RWCs.

Hope this makes it easier for you to grasp.

Lol. Empty vessels make the most noise.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:No you're wrong.

Any conversation about the group stages is held in context of where placement in the group stages leads to in the knockout.

Point being any conversation about the group stages is irrelevant unless taken in context of the knockout stages, this being a World Cup where the group stages establish what happens next.

To make it easier for you, the RWC is not decided at the group stages.

Further Gooesberry's remark was following a stupid little Tighthead contribution about how Wales and Ireland have easy groups so Gooseberry's remark did not originate the conversation. This was followed by his equally stupid remark about presence in groups makes them look easier - amusing from an England fan who supports the only team ever to not have qualified from a RWC group as hosts, and then your post about how well Ireland have done in their groups which lead to mine pointing out that, though they had won their groups they had crashed out in defeat by the runner up of the corresponding group at the last two RWCs.

Hope this makes it easier for you to grasp.

Lol. Empty vessels make the most noise.

Ah I see you dont understand oh well not much I can do about that.

Gwlad wrote:No you're wrong.

Any conversation about the group stages is held in context of where placement in the group stages leads to in the knockout.

I'm pretty sure a) this is a thread specifically about the draw for the group stages, and b) GunsGermsV2 created the thread himself.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:
The worry for Ireland is that they weren't able to win a test series in SA even when they (SA) were an absolute rabble.

Thats one way of looking at it. Another way is Ireland and NZ were the only teams to win a game in SA. Both Argentina and Australia lost there in 2016.

SA should have improved a lot by 2019. They will certainly want to be on an upward curve when they're hosting in 2023.

No worries we shall move on.

Cyril wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Cyril wrote:
The worry for Ireland is that they weren't able to win a test series in SA even when they (SA) were an absolute rabble.

Thats one way of looking at it. Another way is Ireland and NZ were the only teams to win a game in SA. Both Argentina and Australia lost there in 2016.

SA should have improved a lot by 2019. They will certainly want to be on an upward curve when they're hosting in 2023.

Haha. You are a real pain in the hole Cyril.

Gwlad do you not think Ireland and Wales have easy groups? I do - nothing wrong with that.

RWCs aren't won in the group stages but they can be lost there.

We don't know the strength of sides till the RWC starts but you would think sides like Argentina,France and SA can only get stronger.

Most sides it's very difficult to say though but I can't see Wales improving with Gatland still in charge.

After the 2019 RWC they can perhaps rebuild with Dai Young in charge.


Scotland are an interesting one because Cotter was doing a good job - can Towsnend keep up the momentum?

Still think France don't have the right man in charge but might still move in a upward curve regardless.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

I think it is a game we should win and I'm pleased compared to some of the other pools (Pool C).

In many ways there is a lot to be said for being 2nd seed like SA and getting NZ at the group stages so you dont have to face them until the final.

beshocked wrote:Gwlad do you not think Ireland and Wales have easy groups? I do - nothing wrong with that.

RWCs aren't won in the group stages but they can be lost there.

We don't know the strength of sides till the RWC starts but you would think sides like Argentina,France and SA can only get stronger.

Most sides it's very difficult to say though but I can't see Wales improving with Gatland still in charge.

After the 2019 RWC they can perhaps rebuild with Dai Young in charge.

Ireland yes Wales no, not 'easy'

Aus - not beaten since 2008
Georgia - we all know they're on the up and will beat sides up bananas
Pacific 1 - Fiji bananas

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

I think it is a game we should win and I'm pleased compared to some of the other pools (Pool C).

In many ways there is a lot to be said for being 2nd seed like SA and getting NZ at the group stages so you dont have to face them until the final.

Yes but if you aspirations to win the tournament you have to be looking to beat NZ at some point. If every team has the attitude of waiting for someone else to beat NZ, then NZ will stroll to the title again.

I'd like to see sides really making it tough for them.

Gwlad you don't need to talk up your group - sure being first in pool might be tough but runners up is something you'll be favourites for.

Georgia and Fiji aren't bad but there are numerous other more dangerous sides in the competition.

Would you really rather get Argentina than Georgia?

beshocked wrote:Gwlad do you not think Ireland and Wales have easy groups? I do - nothing wrong with that.

RWCs aren't won in the group stages but they can be lost there.

We don't know the strength of sides till the RWC starts but you would think sides like Argentina,France and SA can only get stronger.

Most sides it's very difficult to say though but I can't see Wales improving with Gatland still in charge.

After the 2019 RWC they can perhaps rebuild with Dai Young in charge.


Scotland are an interesting one because Cotter was doing a good job - can Towsnend keep up the momentum?

Still think France don't have the right man in charge but might still move in a upward curve regardless.

I'd also say Scotland have an easy group too. We tend to do reasonably well against Ireland. As Gums pointed out we have never met on neutral ground.

I'm glad we avoided NZ and England that's for sure.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Gwlad do you not think Ireland and Wales have easy groups? I do - nothing wrong with that.

RWCs aren't won in the group stages but they can be lost there.

We don't know the strength of sides till the RWC starts but you would think sides like Argentina,France and SA can only get stronger.

Most sides it's very difficult to say though but I can't see Wales improving with Gatland still in charge.

After the 2019 RWC they can perhaps rebuild with Dai Young in charge.


Scotland are an interesting one because Cotter was doing a good job - can Towsnend keep up the momentum?

Still think France don't have the right man in charge but might still move in a upward curve regardless.

I'd also say Scotland have an easy group too. We tend to do reasonably well against Ireland. As Gums pointed out we have never met on neutral ground.

I'm glad we avoided NZ and England that's for sure.

Yes it should realistically be Ireland and Scotland fighting for the honour of taking on either NZ or South Africa in the quarter finals (likely anyway).

Perhaps a bit too soon to write off Japan but I think they'll need a significant upturn in fortunes to challenge. Plus when you look back - Japan did have two formidable coaches - Jones and Borthwick. Coaching cannot be underestimated.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

I think it is a game we should win and I'm pleased compared to some of the other pools (Pool C).

In many ways there is a lot to be said for being 2nd seed like SA and getting NZ at the group stages so you dont have to face them until the final.

Yes but if you aspirations to win the tournament you have to be looking to beat NZ at some point. If every team has the attitude of waiting for someone else to beat NZ, then NZ will stroll to the title again.

I'd like to see sides really making it tough for them.

Gwlad you don't need to talk up your group - sure being first in pool might be tough but runners up is something you'll be favourites for.

Georgia and Fiji aren't bad but there are numerous other more dangerous sides in the competition.

Would you really rather get Argentina than Georgia?

In fairness though quite a few teams that won the RWC didnt have to play NZ. England and SA for example and Australia in 1999.

no beshocked I'd have liked to be in NZ group, avoid them until final.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

I'd also say Scotland have an easy group too. We tend to do reasonably well against Ireland. As Gums pointed out we have never met on neutral ground.

I'm glad we avoided NZ and England that's for sure.

Dont worry there is a good chance you will face NZ in the quarters.
With respect,
Gums

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

BamBam wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Flip me - that's the best pool we've ever been in (famous last words). It's great for both Ireland and Scotland.

Thoughts on playing Japan?

I think it is a game we should win and I'm pleased compared to some of the other pools (Pool C).

In many ways there is a lot to be said for being 2nd seed like SA and getting NZ at the group stages so you dont have to face them until the final.

Yes but if you aspirations to win the tournament you have to be looking to beat NZ at some point. If every team has the attitude of waiting for someone else to beat NZ, then NZ will stroll to the title again.

I'd like to see sides really making it tough for them.

Gwlad you don't need to talk up your group - sure being first in pool might be tough but runners up is something you'll be favourites for.

Georgia and Fiji aren't bad but there are numerous other more dangerous sides in the competition.

Would you really rather get Argentina than Georgia?

In fairness though quite a few teams that won the RWC didnt have to play NZ. England and SA for example and Australia in 1999.

True but someone has to beat NZ. Can't rely on the French or Aussies most of the time.

I wouldn't have minded playing NZ in the 2003 final. Australia in Australia wasn't exactly easy!

Ireland only lost to them by a point. They werent that good. Also NZ hammered everyone they played bar Australia. I think NZ would have given England a hell of a game.

Interestingly for Ireland to win the RWC there is a good chance they would have replicate their 2016 SANZAR slam and beat SA, Australia and NZ. SA in the quarters if Ireland win their group and SA come second. Australia in the semis if Australia win their group and beat more than likely Fra or Arg in the quarters. Then NZ in the final.

Tough route.

Ireland never get past the quarters.

Gwlad wrote:Ireland never get past the quarters.

Wales never beat Australia so good chance they wont get past the quarters either or even get out of their group as they also struggle v the PI teams. Wales have three RWC losses v PI sides. Poor.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Ireland never get past the quarters.

Wales never beat Australia so good chance they wont get past the quarters either or even get out of their group as they also struggle v the PI teams. Wales have three RWC losses v PI sides. Poor.

Wales haven't failed to get out of their group since 2007, semi in 2011, 1/4 in 2015 after beating the host nation.

Ireland meanwhile have won their group in the last two RWCs and then lost against runners up  

In 2019 they'll likely face SA in the 1/4 and my money will , based on experience at RWC, be firmly on SA.

Ireland ought to be doing better, maybe they will at RWC 2023 if they win the bid.

My gut tells me backs will be scratched and palms tickled and the RWC will be in SA in 2023, Jpaan is a backwater of rugby and it needs to go to a stalwart after 2019.

You have Oceania1 in your group and Australia. Two teams you traditionally struggle against at the RWC. Surely you should be worried about Wales getting out of their group? Georgia will provide a stern test for Wales too.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You have Oceania1 in your group and Australia. Two teams you traditionally struggle against at the RWC. Surely you should be worried about Wales getting out of their group? Georgia will provide a stern test for Wales too.

Nope, nope and

Gwlad wrote:
... Wales no, not 'easy'

Aus - not beaten since 2008
Georgia - we all know they're on the up and will beat sides up bananas
Pacific 1 - Fiji bananas

Gwlad wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You have Oceania1 in your group and Australia. Two teams you traditionally struggle against at the RWC. Surely you should be worried about Wales getting out of their group? Georgia will provide a stern test for Wales too.

Nope, nope and  

Internal consistency on one thread is so overrated

Pathetic

I said the group wasn't easy, not the I am worried one bit.

Rather amusing that you go ferreting around looking for 'inconsistencies' when you don't even understand what one is. Sad too.

England have won 9 out of 15 knock-out games. They've failed to qualify for the knock-outs once.

France have won 9 out of 17 knock-out games. They've never failed to qualify.

Scotland have won 2 out of 9 knock-out games. They've failed to qualify once.

Wales have won 2 out of 7 knock-out games. They've failed to qualify three times.

Ireland have won 0 out of 7 knock-out games. They've failed to qualify once.

Italy have never qualified for the knock-out stages.

Yes,a first and in their own RWC. That's gotta be worse than slipping in a cactus eh Marty?

wow this is going to be a long 2 years....

We are beyond crap at RWCs for some reason. Although, our loss against Argentina in 2015 was largely down to losing a third of our team (and most important players) in the previous game.

Argentina were superb in that game too, you have to admit. I loved watching them in that World Cup.

Yes, they absolutely were. I just think that it would have been a much closer game if we had Sexton, Payne, O'Mahony, O'Connell and O'Brien available. Regardless, there can't be too many excuses made to mask the fact we have a horrendous RWC record.

Yeah, that's quite a list.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Yes, they absolutely were. I just think that it would have been a much closer game if we had Sexton, Payne, O'Mahony, O'Connell and O'Brien available. Regardless, there can't be too many excuses made to mask the fact we have a horrendous RWC record.

It is a big hospital list, but Argentina were sublime. They had their game of the tournament against Ireland, and they absolutely failed to show up in the subsequent round.

I predict the groups result as follows
A
Ireland, Japan
B
NZ, S Africa
C
France, England
D
Wales, Australia

1/4
NZ v Japan - one assumes host to qualify from group
Ireland v S Africa - Ireland always lose their 1/4
Australia v France - Blow their load v England to win group
Wales v England - Last minute penalty by Halfpenny from touchline

Semi
NZ v Australia
Wales v South Africa

Final
Wales v NZ.

I predict a riot

I don't think Gwlad's prediction can work as he has sides who were in the same pool meeting in the semi-finals.

Other than that perfectly fine. Surprised he didn't predict the winner of the final though.

Cyril wrote:I don't think Gwlad's prediction can work as he has sides who were in the same pool meeting in the semi-finals.

Other than that perfectly fine. Surprised he didn't predict the winner of the final though.

Thanks Mike I will correct that immediately. (you seem a bit more chipper)

His prediction doesn't work because it has wales in it. No one in their right mind would believe that

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:His prediction doesn't work because it has wales in it. No one in their right mind would believe that

It's best just to humour him.

Cyril wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:His prediction doesn't work because it has wales in it. No one in their right mind would believe that

It's best just to humour him.

Humour me, definitely the best option for you Mike.