The Official *England to Euro 2016 Glory* Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

And this time, even I don't believe it will happen!

Instead, in a pish-poor tournament devoid of serious quality, I'm backing the Welsh to do the business at a healthy 80/1.

Anyway, England's first warm-up is against Turkey in about an hour and a half. Make sure you enjoy Kane and Vardy playing up front together, because it won't be replicated at any other point this summer!

[sportform]

Leaving Townsend at home makes a good deal of sense tbh. Even disregarding the squad he picked.

I think Roy Hodgson's probably picked the best 23 players available. You could make cases for some players like Drinkwater over Wilshere. Wilshere didn't look fit on Friday and England looked more solid in the second half with Drinkwater in the deeper position but I think Drinkwater would have only gone as midfield cover. Reports suggest that Drinkwater lost out to Rashford/ Sturridge rather than any other midfielder.

For me Drinkwater has had a good season but he lacks technique at international level. He plays far too many sloppy passes for me. Have see plenty of Drinkwater to Vardy comments but alot of those balls were over the top into space and Vardy's pace made them good balls. I'm sure the likes of Dier, Alli, Wishere, Henderson, Rooney can play those balls too.

If I had to pick another Leicester player other than Vardy for this England squad I would have picked Demarai Gray over Drinkwater.

I feel Townsend was probably more unlucky not to go. For me he offers more of an attacking threat than Barkley (head down, too greedy, misses simple passes) and Lallana (good technically but doesn't offer anything wide and is he going to play ahead of Alli, Rooney, Wilshere going forward).

[Crimey]

Milner was immense for the last few months of the season, it felt like every goal scored came from a Milner assist for a while. He definitely deserves to be in the squad.

I think Lallana is in the squad based on his defence high up the pitch. He presses really well so I imagine Hodgson would consider using him in a game against a big team or as a sub when winning to prevent their attacks from the back.

[Guest]

Thought on tonight's line-up, expected to be Vardy & Kane up front, Rooney in the 10, with a diamond of Alli, Henderson & Dier. Rose, Smalling, Cahill, Clyne & Hart.

Portugal won't be as strong as this tonight, but come the Euro's, they could be dark-horses. An element of Belgium's sudden rise seems to be occurring with Portugal, extremely bright future.

-------------Ronaldo------------
--Nani------------------Joao Mario
--Gomes---Carvalho--Moutinho--
Guerreiro-Pepe-Carvalho-Soares
--------------Patricio-------------

Rafa Silva, Eder & Bayern's Renato Sanches as back-up

[compelling and rich]

old poor defence and still too reliant on ronadlo for goals. but given there easy group draw they should be quarter finalists minimum. not bad each way bet but still wouldnt consider them much threat to the big boys unless ronaldo can drag them through

[Guest]

They made the semi final of Euro 2012, with a much worse side, so I would not write them off

If you didn't know, Guerreiro is one of the most sought after LB's in France, Pepe, however maligned, has still been a key figure in Madrid winning two champs lge's & Carvalho is no nonsense. They might be old, but they know the art of defending to a tee. Also got Jose Fonte & Soares, who are no mugs. My point was they aren't reliant upon Ronaldo for everything anymore, obviously he's the figurehead, but they aren't a one man team. That midfield of Andre Gomes, William Carvalho, Moutinho & the heavily linked to United, Joao Mario, back that up. Renato Sanches too, has just cost £28m.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

tee*

Defending to a tea is what we used to do in early 1900s before those barbarians learned how to play

[Guest]

Milner & Walker starting?

[Guest]

Hart, Walker, Rose, Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Milner, Alli, Rooney, Vardy & Kane

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Hart, Walker, Rose, Cahill, Smalling, Dier, Milner, Alli, Rooney, Vardy & Kane

Hoping its Clyne over Walker, Stones over Cahill and Henderson over Milner come Russia but fear that'll be the team Roy goes with...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Id play Clyne, Bertrand, Hendo but not Stones

[Guest]

Pretty weak Portugal starting line-up

I'd have Henderson over Milner. To be honest, it's a toss of a coin between Clyne & Walker

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Milner is a bit of a joke really.

[Stella]

Milner is a bit of a joke really.

5th best player in Europe according to some very weird stat!

[Guest]

Milner anonymous & Alli looks wasted on the left of this diamond. All very disjointed & no real link up between Rooney & the front two, so far.

[Guest]

Red card for Alves, turns this into a pointless exercise now, which we won't learn anything

[GSC]

Alves trying a karate kick to Kanes face in a friendly

[Guest]

Performance of a side, that hasn't played together, offensively just looks a mess. Agree about Alli, he was the driving force from midfield against Germany, now he's wasted in a deeper role. No real width either with this diamond formation.

[GSC]

Its more 4-3-3 than a diamond

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Crimey, come here to tell me why Milner is great

[Guest]

Its more 4-3-3 than a diamond

Diamond, but Kane & Vardy split with Rooney going forward when out of possession

[GSC]

Rather see us play

Hart
Walker-Cahill-Smalling-Rose
Wilshere-Dier
Vardy-Alli-Sterling
Kane

This aint working.

[Guest]

Rooney's inclusion has killed Dele Alli

[GSC]

Rooney really isn't one of Englands best 11 players anymore

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Rooney and Alli are in the wrong roles. Alli needs to be pressing and making runs, Rooney needs to be playing the ball. 

No idea why you'd see Vardy play like he has today and think "he needs to be playing wide behind the striker."

[GSC]

What other options are there. We have 1 wide player

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dont play a system of width from the wings then. You've got fullbacks who are better going forward than back, use them as your width.

[Guest]

-------Wilshere---Dier------
---Lallana-----Alli-----Sterling
---------------Kane--------

Best balance

[Dolphin Ziggler]

That turn sums Lallana up

[GSC]

Dont play a system of width from the wings then. You've got fullbacks who are better going forward than back, use them as your width.

Which has not worked at all tonight.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dont play a system of width from the wings then. You've got fullbacks who are better going forward than back, use them as your width.

Which has not worked at all tonight.

Give it one game. In fact give it about 40 mins of a real game cos Portugal lost a player.

[GSC]

We have a shaky defense and a static midfield and you want the FBs to act as pseudo wingers and provide all the width?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well yeah, they are poor defensively, and we would then cover those gaps with midfielders, when they are back in shape we have strong midfielders shielding too.

You play Henderson and Rooney ahead of Dier, have Alli defending from the front and use the width of the fullbacks, one at most of those is gonna overcommit and one side can only really be attacked directly at once.

Arguably, our strikers are not desperate for wide service that isnt more than natural and both are channel runners so will naturally move out wide anyway.

[Guest]

Vs Russia:

Walker-Smalling-Cahill-Rose
-------------Dier------------
----Henderson---Rooney----
------------ -Alli------------
--------Kane------Vardy-----

[owen10ozzy]

The inclusion of Rooney is disastrous for England..if your going to play him just put in at the expense of Vardy and be done with it because shoe horning him in lessens the impact of others. That was a mess of a team and it stems from trying to put square pegs into round holes.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Vs Russia:

Walker-Smalling-Cahill-Rose
-------------Dier------------
----Henderson---Rooney----
------------ -Alli------------
--------Kane------Vardy-----

I'd have Clyne instead of walker but otherwise agree

Can't have Rooney AM, and Alli CM - and can't have Kane and Vardy so wide - if we're exposed on the flanks so be it, can't nullify our main threats to track FB's all game

[GSC]

Realistically Rooney in particular and Henderson on current form aren't plugging any gaps if the FBs go forward.

Really disappointed in Roy tbh. Thought there was actually a plan through qualifying, rather than just trying to squeeze players into an awkward formation that really suits none of them.

[Ent]

Rooney will be a disaster in midfield, no sane person would consider playing him there.

Really is a mark of disrespect for actual midfielders to see him there.

[GSC]

Its just another way to get him in the team when he doesn't merit a place anymore.

[Guest]

Rooney is naught but an old man's vanity project now. The insistence on playing him with end up with Roy being humiliated and a sad way for him to end his managerial career. He's a nice guy but recently he's looked like a doddery old fool.

In five minutes, Lallana, Sturridge and Wilshire provided more attacking threat than the dross that had been on display previously. People on here are slating Milner, but all I saw Milner do was mop up Rooney's cr*p all evening and I really don't see what's so tremendous about Eric Dier. However, he does seem to be our best option which doesn't bode well at all.

[Guest]

Really disappointed in Roy tbh. Thought there was actually a plan through qualifying.

You've only just become disappointed in clueless Roy? He's a shambles of a manager, should of gone when we were embarrasingly knocked out of the WC after one week, but somehow people defended him. He was never the man to take this new generating forward, we've had two years to plan for this tournament & we're going into it, with no clue of our formation or the starting XI. Laughable really. Players like Barkley & Sterling have stagnated & even when we see Alli terrorising the Germans in the 10 role, he then removes him, in favour of this clown Rooney.

The diamond did not work & nor did two up front. What looks good on paper, with the two top PL scorers, rarely actually translates to reality. The German performance (4-2-3-1) showed the direction we need to go down, it gives the best balance, we have the high energy & press, with Alli in the 10 & Lallana wide right. Yes, Lallana might not be fantastic, but things seem too at least come together & he's a good link up man, something which was evidently missing last night. He would then be overlapped by Walker, who would bring the pace, that Lallana is missing. On the other side, we need to replace Welbeck, so probably Vardy or Sterling.

------------Hart-------------
Walker-Smalling-Cahill-Rose
-----Henderson-Dier--------
Lallana-----Alli----Sterling or Vardy
------------Kane-------------

[Guest]

I can't argue with that, John. I'd probably go Sterling, with Vardy as an impact sub. It might not look the best on paper, but as you say, it's what in reality works best & gives us the best balance & foundation to build from. I just feel with the diamond formation, that it's Roy's way of just trying to throw all the big names into the side & it isn't working.

[jbeadlesbigrighthand]

Two things stood out for me.

Firstly, Rooney nullified Kane and Vardy, because he kept making runs into their space. He's simply not right for the tip of the diamond. His inclusion also meant Alli was shifted out, where he was less effective and less sure of his defensive role. Surely Hodgson must have learned that Rooney's inclusion weakens the team?

Secondly, even more so than usual, the midfield was sitting far, far too deep both in and out of possession. When Portugal had the ball, the midfield was so deep that the attackers had to drop back to pick up Portugal's midfielders. As a result, we had no chance of breaking quickly. When England tried to build possession from the back a midfielder inevitably picked the ball orf a centre back's feet. That is a crime. Yet England always do it, so it must be tactical. Is it simply that the centre backs aren't trusted to make simple passes?

[GSC]

Id rather have Wilshere if he's fit than Henderson but I agree.

[owen10ozzy]

I questioned Dier's ability and experience at this level the other week. In a couple of years I'm sure he can develop nicely into the player we need him to be but at this moment I don't think he is the player to be in that holding role..I would take either Henderson or low and behold Milner (can press for 90 minutes, can tackle, can actually read the game and is exceptionally disciplined when asked to play a particular role).

I can see where John is coming from regards playing that 4-2-3-1 formation; it provides stability in front of a pretty poor defence and gets the best out of Alli. I do however think that Vardy and Kane up top can work...you just don't put a spanner in the works by sticking someone in behind them who isn't going to trample all over there space. Henderson with Wilshire (when fit) and Dier ahead..then Alli and the two up top. Think Dier could easily play midfield, given he often is the one too push forward when alongside Dembele in the Spurs lineup. It would also mean some extra energy further forward when pressing to win the ball.

Either of the two formations would be a blessing though; sadly we have in Hodgson a man who looks as clueless as he did two years ago. The one shining light is that my apparent eternal negativity has finally been seen for what it is...realistic vision because so many on here were quick to fire that word at me 18 months ago but all of a sudden plenty are on that bandwagon with me and others who projected this misery.

[GSC]

Milner is really just a nothing player, dont think he's really does anything well bar work rate. Henderson pretty much the same.

[Crimey]

Milner is really just a nothing player, dont think he's really does anything well bar work rate. Henderson pretty much the same.

Apart from the bags of assists he got this year? Milner is a fantastic crosser of the ball (bar from set pieces), he's also a good leader on the pitch. I don't think he's a top class central midfielder, but he's a really good squad player for both club and international sides because he can do so much well. He was probably the best player in Liverpool's Europa League run this year and he was in excellent form coming into the end of the season. He offers a lot more than work rate.

Same with Henderson, think it's incredibly unfair to say he only offers work rate. I think he's definitely better than Milner and probably England's best pure central midfielder, maybe behind Wilshere if he was fit more often. He's got an excellent range of passing, can read the game really well, got a good cross and shot, can take set pieces well.

[GSC]

And if both players didnt play for Liverpool?

[Crimey]

And if both players didnt play for Liverpool?

I'd say the same thing. 

I don't even think I'm saying anything unreasonable. The only way you can say Milner is a "nothing player" is if you haven't seen him play this season. I'm not suggesting he's England's best player, that he should start or anything particularly crazy, just that he's good at crossing, his versatility, experience and work rate make him a valuable squad member. He was one of Liverpool's best players this year, certainly after December. I think he fully deserved his spot in the squad.

Henderson 100% offers more than just work rate and I'd wager most of the footballing world would agree. Which of the central midfielders are better? I think Alli is better as a number 10, Fabien Delph definitely isn't. Eric Dier I'm still not convinced on, certainly not convinced that his future will lie in midfield, think he'll eventually drop back into central defence. Wilshere and Henderson are very close in ability for me, and Henderson probably gets the edge just because Wilshere hasn't been fit for a long time. I think Henderson suffers from being good at most things, but he isn't a stand out in any one area of the game. He's a very clever player, got a really good range of passing, good vision, great reading of the game defensively as well. Think to reduce him to just good work rate is really unfair.

It's also a bit cheap to suggest that it's only because they play for Liverpool, if only a Nottingham Forest player was called up for England ey?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Dier is offered no support. Milner was abysmal last night and exposed again as a man who does not offer enough in central midfield. Alli was too deep.

The anti-Rooney in midfield brigade seem to be forgetting his man of the match performance in the FA cup final. Equally, Vardy played crap and cannot be excused because of Rooney. Rooney has actually shown the intelligence in midfield that would help Dier, his performances for Man United showed a willingness to play from deep, use the ball and take responsibility for his positional play.

Wilshere arguably looked the best player on the pitch, but he can't be trusted deep. The argument for me now is whether we abandon pace for pace sake and play Wilshere, Alli, Hendo, Rooney (he is going to play) Dier in a system with Kane up top.

I think Sturridge is our best striker but sadly his legs are made of glass.

[Guest]

I'm not having a go, but show me a formation, whereby you get Henderson, Wilshere, Alli, Dier, Rooney in midfield & then Kane up front. It's impossible, just looks awful.

Nothing beats the 4-2-3-1 system, which we played against Germany, with Vardy on as an impact sub. Vardy showed his limitations yesterday & I think he's better off as an impact sub.

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