Dan Biggar and Johnny Sexton set for epic fly-half battle in opener... But who's the better player?

Well this should be interesting, I wonder if we can debate about this without it turning into an argument, I found this article very interesting:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-2016-dan-biggar-10690462

Do you agree with this ?


And for those of you who do not like clicking on the links:-


06:00, 6 JAN 2016
BY GARETH GRIFFITHS
The two are likely to go head-to-head when Wales visit Ireland on the first weekend in a battle which will go a long way to deciding who will come out on top
   


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Dan Biggar and Johnny Sexton are the two star fly-halves for Wales and Ireland
It’s just a month before Wales’ Six Nations opener against Ireland which will pit Europe’s two finest outside-halves against each other as Johnny Sexton faces Dan Biggar.

And there could be a mouthwatering warm-up confrontation this Friday when Sexton’s Leinster arrive in Swansea to tackle Biggar’s Ospreys in the Guinness Pro12 match at the Liberty Stadium on Friday evening.

Dan Biggar of Wales is tackled by Jonny Sexton of IrelandDan Biggar of Wales is tackled by Jonny Sexton of Ireland
READ MORE: When will Wales' Six Nations squad be announced?

Sexton had suffered a dead leg in the victory over Connacht last weekend but Leinster are hopeful he will prove his fitness.

There is a Lions tour of New Zealand looming on the horizon next year so this could be a couple of early occasions for the opposing outside-halves to set down a marker and get one over on their rivals.

So how do the two decision-makers shape up against each other? Here, Gareth Griffiths takes a look...

FORM
Biggar: 9

Sexton: 7

Biggar has enjoyed a stunning 12 months which included an excellent World Cup where he orchestrated the victory over England at Twickenham.

Steve Pope/ SPORTINGWALESDan Biggar receives the Wales Sports Personality of the Year award from Nigel Owens
Has also been in fine form since he returned to the Ospreys. Sexton was excellent in patches during the World Cup and was sorely missed in the quarter-final defeat against Argentina after he was forced out through injury.

Has been part of a Leinster side who are excelling in the league with five straight wins though they have lost all four of their matches in Europe.

WalesOnline
ATTACK
Biggar: 7

Sexton: 8

Wales backs coach Rob Howley had always urged Biggar to improve his attacking threat and the Ospreys outside-half has managed this over the last couple of years.

Ireland's Johnny Sexton scores his side's third try of the gameIreland's Johnny Sexton scores a try against Wales
RELATED: The Wales Six Nations injury bulletin

Sexton made his name as a running Leinster outside-half bringing out the best of the likes of Gordon D’Arcy and Brian O’Driscoll early in his career although it can be argued he has become more conservative.

DEFENCE
Biggar: 8

Sexton: 7

You will struggle to find a more committed defender to have worn the Wales No.10 jersey than Biggar. Maybe only Stephen Jones can rival him.

Dan Biggar has been in superb form for the Ospreys this season
Sexton will tackle but has suffered from concussion issues over the last few years and every time he makes a heavy challenge, you fear for his health.

Who's the better fly-half?
Dan Biggar
Johnny Sexton
TACTICAL KICKING
Biggar: 8

Sexton: 9

Sexton has become a master at the tactical game and can often put the ball anywhere he likes with a series of different kicks.

Getty ImagesDan Biggar in action for Wales
MORE: The big Six Nations form check on the Welsh exiles

Biggar also prides himself on his tactical kicking nous and often drives the Ospreys and Wales forward.

Biggar has also perfected working his team into handing him a drop-goal opportunity.

Video: The Biggarena was one of the funny points of last year's World Cup
Dan Biggarena...

Posted by Steve Pilbrow on Sunday, September 27, 2015
AERIAL ABILITY
Biggar: 9

Sexton: 7

What Biggar really excels at is the aerial bombardment and he often collects his own kick to set up attacks.

Dan Biggar goes aerial against Scotland
RELATED: The contenders to be Wales' full-back against Ireland

This was most evident in the World Cup quarter-final defeat against South Africa where he set up a try for his half-back partner Gareth Davies.

Sexton will often be the kicking creator these days rather than the hunter gatherer.

WalesOnline
GOALKICKING
Biggar: 9

Sexton: 8

Both players have kept their teams in matches and indeed won games with their metronomic accuracy at goal.

Ireland's Johnny Sexton kicks to touchIreland's Johnny Sexton kicks to touch
Wales fans will recall Biggar’s nerveless match-winning World Cup penalty against England and his title winning conversion against Leinster for the Ospreys a couple of years ago.

And you also get the ‘Biggarena’ dance thrown in!

HONOURS
Biggar: 7

Sexton: 9

If it’s about medals, medals, medals, then Sexton holds the edge.

Getty ImagesSexton is back with Leinster after a spell with Racing Metro
MORE: The forgotten Welshman who hasn't given up on Wales

Sexton has won more during his career than his Welsh rival after celebrating being part of three Heineken Cup winning sides, an Irish Grand Slam triumph in 2009 back-to-back Six Nations successes and a Lions Test winning side.

Biggar’s return so far has been more moderate with two league titles and an Anglo-Welsh triumph with the Ospreys and being part of the 2013 Six Nations triumph with Wales.

But he can boast the 2015 BBC Wales Sports Personality of the Year accolade.

X-FACTOR
Biggar: 8

Sexton: 9

After the Welsh rugby public first struggled to warm to him, Biggar has become a bit of a cult figure especially following the World Cup.

Sexton is one of Ireland’s go-to men and is sorely missed when he is injured.

LEADERSHIP
Biggar: 9

Sexton: 8

Biggar is a born winner who demands the best from all of his team-mates with his emotions occasionally still boiling over.

Dan Biggar was Wales' number one goal kicker at the World Cup


He is the driving force of the Ospreys side alongside Alun Wyn Jones and a key decision maker for Warren Gatland.

Sexton is Joe Schmidt’s on-field conductor who implements the game plan and determines how Ireland and Leinster play.

EXPERIENCE
Biggar: 8

Sexton: 9

The 30-year-old Irish maestro is more than four years older than his Welsh rival so it’s no surprise he has played 17 more Tests than Biggar with 56 matches compared to 39.

Sexton also has three Lions Test caps to his name after his part in the 2013 series success in Australia.

Sexton has also experienced a more diverse career having experienced life in the French Top 14 with Racing Metro.

But Biggar has youth on his side and has been an established international performer now for a couple of seasons.

Totals
Biggar: 82

Sexton: 81

Not a lot in it but Sexton is the better player - but not by so much that an on form Biggar could not outplay him. Of course "wales on line" thinks Biggar is best - but it just ain't so

Isn't the point of these articles (I mean the ones on walesonline) to start arguments? It's kind of the MO of the Welsh Rugby media imo. Normally it's writing about how much better some Welsh player is than the Irish/English player he'll be up against next. There's no prizes for working out they always pick the Welsh player. If they didn't think they could find a way of coming to the conclusion that Welsh player is better, then they wouldn't write the article in the first place- which is good as it saves the need to actually read the thing. Welsh fans love it- and opposition fans get annoyed. Therefore they both click through.

Although I read this one, and bringing up the fact that Biggar won the Welsh Sports Personality of the Year gave me a good laugh.

In any event, they are right this time. I agree that Dan Biggar is a better player right now. If Sexton is capable of getting back to his best form and does so I'd say him for sure but right now he looks knackered and needs a break. On form, you'd pick Biggar ahead of him. All that stuff about medals and whose been on the Lions and everything- that stuff doesn't matter. All that matter is Biggar looks confident and is coming into his prime and Sexton looks short of form and confidence.

I personally think Biggar is the better fly half and dancer, however I'm not sure if he is a better player.

He also does the Dan Biggarena when taking his kicks...

I think Sexton is an excellent fly half. However I think he made a mistake moving away from Leinster. He's back now but I personally don't think he improved at Racing.

Having Biggar ahead in Leadership though as the article does is a very subjective opinion and not one that I share.

However I do think Biggar has a bit more "X-Factor" whatever that is. He certainly seems at the moment to be able to create more opportunities than Sexton.

WOL and the Fail and utter garbage as papers/media sources etc and as said constantly post things to try get response.

On this topic then currently I think Biggar is in the better form and has been for past 12 months where I think Sexton as been a lot quieter than normal.

Overall though I think Sexton is the better player with more stuff in his armoury so to speak.

Its a bit like the Ford/Farrell comparison.

Like Farrell, Biggar is more consistent, more robust and much better goal kicker.

Like Ford, Sexton is the more creative player and better passer.

Biggars kick / chase tactic is great tho - the best in the world at chasing his own kicks at gathering them

Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game. Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

On current form I would say Biggar is better, Sexton has struggled with injuries of late and that's bound to affect confidence. If both were on their best form right now, then Sexton would just shade it IMO.

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

Less convincing than the Irish 2nd choice props and lock ?

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

Less convincing than the Irish 2nd choice props and lock ?

Hmm.. don't know. Wales might have the edge at lock but the front row is anyone's guess.

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

Less convincing than the Irish 2nd choice props and lock ?

Hmm.. don't know.  Wales might have the edge at lock but the front row is anyone's guess.

Even missing Healey and Mike Ross ?

I'm going to say something controversial.... apart from on the Lions tests versus Australia the evidence suggests Sexton isn't the same player when he's not playing under Joe Schmidt - he was poor at Racing and hasn't looked the same since returning to Leinster but in between there has been peaks for Ireland in between.

On evidence Biggar is the better player but I think we'll see a different Sexton in the 6N.

I will say one thing for Biggar, the boy can take a wallop. He is always smashing players/getting smashed himself, then he dusts himself down to kick as accurately as he does. He should have more recognition for that attribute.

Sexton on the other hand tends to pick up injuries, and I have seen him get put off his game when he gets smashed. He is much more skill full with the ball in hand though.

If both are playing at their peak, I do not think there is much between them, but Sexton would just edge it for me, not by much though, by the slightest of smidgings.

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

Less convincing than the Irish 2nd choice props and lock ?

Hmm.. don't know.  Wales might have the edge at lock but the front row is anyone's guess.

Even missing Healey and Mike Ross ?

Munkian, it's arguable that Healy isn't even in the top three Irish LH's right now. Most in Ireland would have McGrath as starting 1 and I'd have either James Cronin or Denis Buckley on the bench if they are fit. Healy has become a bit of a loose cannon, a yellow card waiting to happen and after injuries seems to have lost a lot of his ball carrying threat. We're reasonably well served at 3 and Moore, Furlong and White are good 3's. Not worried about our front row but at lock with Hendo out for the season we're very lightweight. Toner is fine in the line out but doesn't do a lot anywhere else, Donnacha Ryan doesn't seem to have recovered his spark, Tuohy doesn't imspire and it says a lot right now that Mike McCarthy is seen as Toner's likely partner.

Biggar is surely the better option these days purely for the fact it's rare for Sexton to play 80 minutes.

theslosty wrote:Biggar is surely the better option these days purely for the fact it's rare for Sexton to play 80 minutes.

Indeed. If there was a transfer market Biggar would be worth more. Sexton is struggling to finish a game these days.

Notch wrote:Isn't the point of these articles (I mean the ones on walesonline) to start arguments? It's kind of the MO of the Welsh Rugby media imo. Normally it's writing about how much better some Welsh player is than the Irish/English player he'll be up against next. There's no prizes for working out they always pick the Welsh player. If they didn't think they could find a way of coming to the conclusion that Welsh player is better, then they wouldn't write the article in the first place- which is good as it saves the need to actually read the thing. Welsh fans love it- and opposition fans get annoyed.

Many don't bother reading that rag (or its website).

Most Welsh fans I know can't stand the Fail or WOL is a shambles at best and as for Andy Howells what he actually knows can be written on back of a stamp with room to spare

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

I think Jenkins and James can still do a job for time being but we do need to look at bringing Rob Evans and Nicky Smith through sooner rather than later.

As for T/head well Lee is back playing but not fit by a long way, Francis done ok during the WC but no better and after that well god help us.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

I think Jenkins and James can still do a job for time being but we do need to look at bringing Rob Evans and Nicky Smith through sooner rather than later.

As for T/head well Lee is back playing but not fit by a long way, Francis done ok during the WC but no better and after that well god help us.

Bedford, that's the problem. We've some has beens and some never beens. I'm not convinced we have top test level props - definitely our weakest position in terms of depth of talent.

offload wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

offload wrote:

munkian wrote:

offload wrote:Two top 10's for sure, different but both capable of turning a game.  Can't help but think that the outcome will be determined somewhere else though - by a few fatties with a single number on the shirt.

Ireland looking a little light in the scrum atm with injuries and recent departures.

Perhaps, but the Welsh props look anything but convincing.

I think Jenkins and James can still do a job for time being but we do need to look at bringing Rob Evans and Nicky Smith through sooner rather than later.

As for T/head well Lee is back playing but not fit by a long way, Francis done ok during the WC but no better and after that well god help us.

Bedford, that's the problem.  We've some has beens and some never beens.  I'm not convinced we have top test level props - definitely our weakest position in terms of depth of talent.

That's why I think they have to be brought through this season, both have been involved in recent (ish) squads so they are on the fringes and being looked at now they have to be brought through properly.

Smith and Evans seem to be the logical choices for loosehead and I do still think Gill can make it at this level and he's always more than held his own when he has been called upon.

Tighthead is the hardest one, Lee seems to be a bit injury prone which is worrying and as mentioned earlier Francis done ok, no more no less but hopefully will keep developing. After those two then I am struggling, Jarvis will be involved in the squad but I still don't rate him.

To my chagrin as an England fan, I thought Biggar was immense vs England in THAT group match. Sexton is class too. Be a fascinating matchup.

Sexton's achieved more, so if both retired today Sexton would go down as the better player.

However Biggar's form is better and he has time on his side to surpass Sexton's achievements.

I disagree with a lot of the analysis in the original article, but agree it is a close contest.

Sexton on form is better by a country mile.

Let's not let his current slump detract from that. He was at 1 time widely thought of as second only to Carter.

Biggar is class, though more limited. He always reminds me of a more experienced (and less petulant) Owen Farrell.

Real hard hitting stuff there.

Wales Online would put person of Welsh origin ahead of anyone else on any metric. To their "journalists" Biggar is a better baptist than John the Baptist, Halfpenny would be a better documentary maker than Sir David Attenborough, and JD2 would have a bigger clown pornography collection than me. Totally unrealistic, do welsh fans not feel a bit patronised by it? They are pulling totally arbitrary numbers out of their rears! Ye have a good enough team that you don't really need the comfort blanket anymore lads.

Anyway on topic. On current form for me Biggar is the better player, Jonny has a bit to prove this 6N. I think Wales will win this year actually and I think Biggar will be a big part of that. Hope I am wrong.

X-FACTOR
Biggar: 8

Sexton: 9

After the Welsh rugby public first struggled to warm to him, Biggar has become a bit of a cult figure especially following the World Cup.

Sexton is one of Ireland’s go-to men and is sorely missed when he is injured.

What does this even mean? What is X-Factor and what do the following sentences have to do with it? Clearly its not to do with Attack, which is covered in a separate section

Shouldn't have to wait long to see them match up, Ospreys play Leinster this weekend

If both are on form form, Sexton is ahead of Bigger by a large distance. I'd probably say that Bigger shades it at the minute though with Sexton stuck in a bit of a rut. Bigger is a good basics fly half like Farrell in a way but is never going to set the world alight.

They are both class International players, Im a big Auckland Blues supporter, and of late they havent been doing too good.If some one was to say to me "if you had a choice of any Rugby player from the Northern Hemisphere to play for the blues who would you take?
I would take Jonathan Sexton.

One season under the tutelage Tana and this guy could go back to Ireland a World beater.

Bottom line, for some obscure reason we (perhaps its just me) just havent seen the best of this player.

He was alright that time they beat Saints in the HC final, if you like that kind of thing. If only he'd had Biggars goal kicking and leadership that day though...

yappysnap wrote:He was alright that time they beat Saints in the HC final, if you like that kind of thing. If only he'd had Biggars goal kicking and leadership that day though...

What was that, 4 years ago ?

To be fair though, Sexton did drag Leinster kicking and screaming back into that final.

Biggar is good at kicking and screaming.

So, it's a draw

WalesOnline, same as the Western Mail, is the Welsh version of the English Sun or the Daily Star, just without the t*ts on page 3. Just the same as those English papers talk about England football players in terms of comparisons, ratings, x factor, praying for Beckham's broken metatarsal, etc, so too does this Welsh rag employ dubious 'entertainment' in its offerings. It's the market they're writing and selling to, unfortunately.

So are we critiquing the article or our own positives and negatives on Biggar and Sexton ? Because they are obviously two different things.

munkian wrote:So are we critiquing the article or our own positives and negatives on Biggar and Sexton ? Because they are obviously two different things.

I agree, are we talking about the players or the paper ?

Both. You're asking us to read the article, which lists a number of nonsense comparison points such as 'X Factor', so inevitably we're going to comment on the rubbish article as well as the player debate.

Marshes wrote:Real hard hitting stuff there.

Wales Online would put person of Welsh origin ahead of anyone else on any metric... totally unrealistic, do welsh fans not feel a bit patronised by it?

Wales Online / Western Mail doesn't speak for the country, it just likes to think it does. A lot of their stuff makes me cringe.

Watching them line up at the kicking tee, no doubt in my mind.
Biggar is a 5.9 to 6.0 for artistic interpretation.

Way ahead of boring Sexton.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Marshes wrote:Real hard hitting stuff there.

Wales Online would put person of Welsh origin ahead of anyone else on any metric... totally unrealistic, do welsh fans not feel a bit patronised by it?

Wales Online / Western Mail doesn't speak for the country, it just likes to think it does. A lot of their stuff makes me cringe.

They are both a complete joke.

Biggar for me.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Marshes wrote:Real hard hitting stuff there.

Wales Online would put person of Welsh origin ahead of anyone else on any metric... totally unrealistic, do welsh fans not feel a bit patronised by it?

Wales Online / Western Mail doesn't speak for the country, it just likes to think it does. A lot of their stuff makes me cringe.

To be honest it is no different in any other nations media, if they do a comparison like that it is never going to come out in favour of the opposition!

Biggar is in better form right now, and in the next few years should surpass Sexton. Sexton is off form, but if that returns then he'll be a bit better, not a lot better - funny that some non-irish people have to use Sexton as a stick to beat a Welsh rugby player.

Did you watch the game tonight then?

Notch wrote:Did you watch the game tonight then?

No actually, finished work late today and forgot it was on. The result comes as no surprise and Sexton could well be returning to best form. Were Leinster very dominant?

No, Ospreys probably had more ball and territory but they made absolutely nothing of it. Whereas Leinster were clinical- three defensive errors by Ospreys, three chances, three tries scored. Sexton had a better game considering he had less ball, he managed the game really well. Bossed the game with some spot-on tactical kicking and won man of the match

Means little overall, but very encouraging to see Sexton coming good in terms of his form again.

I think i;ve mentioned before that I absolutely dispise head to head comparisons, it's not fair on either player at any one time.

10 is one of those positions that are totally dependant on at least 8/12 other players playing well that their performance on a given day can be far different to one 7 days later.

Biggars abilities havn't changed too much in the last 2 years, once the RP debacle was cleared up he transformed his Ospreys performances to Wales, and when Halfpenny got injured he then translated his Ospreys kicking stats to Wales. He has been a good 10 for about 3/4 seasons now, but seems to relish responsibility.

His challenge going forward is playing off what may well be a reduced Wales set peice, an inconsistent 9 (Webb? Davies?) and an ageing 12, who has been the mainstay for Welsh backline play for 3/4 years now.

Sexton of 2013 was world class, truly deserved to be starting lions 10, and led the Irish gameplan. His move to France seems to have kicked him in the nads however, as his form, and confidence has been patchy.

Going into this 6N he has a centre to rely on in Henshaw, and that must be a good out, Murray is playing ok, and Irelands back row options are very strong. I still don't feel as confident of his kicking game as I do others, and thats his weakness still.

Ireland v Wales

I don't think either 10 will have the final say, we know how important goal kicking is, and both will be extremely important to their teams in that aspect, but in reality the set peice and breakdon will determine which of them gets more opportunities.

Biggar has the better boot, Sexton is still the better and more creative ball player, which would I prefer at the helm? If I was Irish i'd prefer Sextons creativity because of their midfield, if I were Welsh i'd prefer Biggar due to Halfpenny being out.

Fanster wrote:I think i;ve mentioned before that I absolutely dispise head to head comparisons, it's not fair on either player at any one time.

10 is one of those positions that are totally dependant on at least 8/12 other players playing well that their performance on a given day can be far different to one 7 days later.

Biggars abilities havn't changed too much in the last 2 years, once the RP debacle was cleared up he transformed his Ospreys performances to Wales, and when Halfpenny got injured he then translated his Ospreys kicking stats to Wales. He has been a good 10 for about 3/4 seasons now, but seems to relish responsibility.

His challenge going forward is playing off what may well be a reduced Wales set peice, an inconsistent 9 (Webb? Davies?) and an ageing 12, who has been the mainstay for Welsh backline play for 3/4 years now.

Sexton of 2013 was world class, truly deserved to be starting lions 10, and led the Irish gameplan. His move to France seems to have kicked him in the nads however, as his form, and confidence has been patchy.

Going into this 6N he has a centre to rely on in Henshaw, and that must be a good out, Murray is playing ok,  and Irelands back row options are very strong. I still don't feel as confident of his kicking game as I do others, and thats his weakness still.

Ireland v Wales

I don't think either 10 will have the final say, we know how important goal kicking is, and both will be extremely important to their teams in that aspect, but in reality the set peice and breakdon will determine which of them gets more opportunities.

Biggar has the better boot, Sexton is still the better and more creative ball player, which would I prefer at the helm? If I was Irish i'd prefer Sextons creativity because of their midfield, if I were Welsh i'd prefer Biggar due to Halfpenny being out.

Fanster, excellent post well thought out and succintly put, didn't want to post on this as obviously I'm biased in Dans favour, but on last nights evidence Jonny had the better game, especially his kicking into the corners, the only thing I can say that would not be in his favour, was his milking of the tackle Underhill put in on him, (IMO it was not worth anything), and the response of Dan to the supposed tip tackle that Jonny put in on him, which Dan said there was nothing wrong with, which I also entirely agree with.