Another mass shooting at a college in America

by Fernando Thu 01 Oct 2015, 8:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

Umpqua Community College was locked down Thursday morning after reports of a shooting on campus.

The Douglas County Sheriff's Office said the 911 center received reports of an active shooter around 10:38 a.m.

An Oregon State Police spokesman told CNN there were 10 confirmed deaths and more than 20 wounded. Hospitals as far away as Eugene were preparing to take patients.

The shooter was reportedly detained.

The FBI was sending agents from several offices around the state to Roseburg, and the ATF said it was sending additional units from Portland and a K-9 team to assist in the investigation.

Fire District No. 2 in Douglas County tweeted a warning for people to stay away from the area.

According to the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, students, faculty and staff were being transported to the Douglas County Fairgrounds.

by kingraf Sat 03 Oct 2015, 9:46 pm

Of course you would. If I was a eight year old American I'd own a gun in case Little Jimmy who doesn't say much was packing heat.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 03 Oct 2015, 10:46 pm

Little Jimmy what a guy...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat 03 Oct 2015, 11:49 pm

The saddest part of all this is that your last point, about collateral damage, is how things are. I just wonder if something like this happened at a school where the rich and powerful sent their kids then would attitudes suddenly change?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat 03 Oct 2015, 11:54 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
greengoblin wrote:Yes it was tolerated in the sense of there being no honest assessment of the problem of Islam. Instead we got the usual 'nothing to do with Islam' guff. The two killers got sent to prison to join lots of their mates, instead of being hung.

'overly cautious treatment'? 60 years ago people would be wanting to shake his hand for the service he does for this country. Someone willing to lay down their life for country- absolute disgrace to be treated in that fashion. Imagine the outcry if someone in a burka was asked to hide away from other patients.

What has any of this got to do with gun control in America?

Not really any of it, it just seemed to be an excuse to be a bit, let's say, old fashioned.

And it's hanged. When you are executing someone it is hanged. Hung refers to people Duty is looking for and also when hung with no intent to kill.

by greengoblin Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:20 am

Yep caring about justice is old fashioned.

The killer also had weapons which were illegally obtained, which is an inconvenient fact I guess.

by **Hero** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:26 am

by ONETWOFOREVER Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:32 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The saddest part of all this is that your last point, about collateral damage, is how things are. I just wonder if something like this happened at a school where the rich and powerful sent their kids then would attitudes suddenly change?

Absolutely correct.

but we must refer to the bible here. The Bible states that the Edomites will conquer 4 quarters of the earth. They (Edomites) will live by the sword which means they will war with everyone. Their emblem will be the Eagle like the Greeces, the Romans and now the USA and even tho they ''build their nests in the stars'' ie space exploration even tho will the Most High will bring them down.

The Europeans are the Edomites. There is a reason the holy books were revealed in a certain part of the world and not Europe. The chosen people of the Most High are the most hated people today. If we all wake up to the 1 truth then we can see each other as family and for once as equals but as long as you see your dominance as some sort of GOD given right then you forget that the Most High had blessed greater nations then today, people who were an abomination to the Most High but this is easy for the Most High to do.

I would like to write a thread which will blow your minds and reveal to you the truth about the bible and ancient history that you have all been conditioned to believe as fact but INFACT its a lie.

but I don't think they will allow it here.

by **Hero** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:38 am

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The saddest part of all this is that your last point, about collateral damage, is how things are. I just wonder if something like this happened at a school where the rich and powerful sent their kids then would attitudes suddenly change?

Absolutely correct.

but we must refer to the bible here. The Bible states that the Edomites will conquer 4 quarters of the earth. They (Edomites) will live by the sword which means they will war with everyone. Their emblem will be the Eagle like the Greeces, the Romans and now the USA and even tho they ''build their nests in the stars'' ie space exploration even tho will the Most High will bring them down.

The Europeans are the Edomites. There is a reason the holy books were revealed in a certain part of the world and not Europe. The chosen people of the Most High are the most hated people today. If we all wake up to the 1 truth then we can see each other as family and for once as equals but as long as you see your dominance as some sort of GOD given right then you forget that the Most High had blessed greater nations then today, people who were an abomination to the Most High but this is easy for the Most High to do.

I would like to write a thread which will blow your minds and reveal to you the truth about the bible and ancient history that you have all been conditioned to believe as fact but INFACT its a lie.

but I don't think they will allow it here.

Just point us in the direction of the latest David Icke blog and I'm sure it'll be similar.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 11:40 am

greengoblin wrote:Yep caring about justice is old fashioned.

The killer also had weapons which were illegally obtained, which is an inconvenient fact I guess.

Sure, thats what I meant.

by kingraf Sun 04 Oct 2015, 1:06 pm

1-2's religious transformation has a very "Road to Damascus" feel to it. It's like he woke up and realised we'd all been living a lie. Damn blue pill

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 04 Oct 2015, 4:07 pm

I also don't understand the opinion that we the British public turned a blind eye to the Lee Rigby murder, that single death sent shock-waves around the country and the perpetrators were deemed to be scum. That we as a country have moved on from executing these people doesn't mean we tolerate their abhorrent crimes, it's a sign that we live in the 21st century not the 19th when it was an eye for an eye.

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 6:23 pm

greengoblin wrote:To all to you British folk here (and I include myself), here's what you tolerate in Britain: British soldier decapitated in the street, RAF servicemen moved away from patients so he won't 'offend different cultures'. We are the absolute pits of a country so please don't take the moral high ground on the USA. Maybe they don't want to become dumb serfs to a liberal elite.

by **navyblueshorts** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 6:25 pm

greengoblin wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:

What has any of this got to do with gun control in America?

I'm objecting to British people labelling American opponents of gun control as stupid irresponsible yokels.

One thing that's missed out of this debate is how many lives guns have saved.

Nonsense. Where's your evidence of this?

by **Hero** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 6:55 pm

Well the American Gun Lobby estimate 2.5 million lives a year are saved due to using guns in self-defence.

Now two points from that:

1. If it is the case, then seriously wtf is going in America to have that number of crimes that could result in death (and how many of the perpetrators of the crimes were brandishing a gun?)
2. What a load of hogwash.

by Corporalhumblebucket Sun 04 Oct 2015, 8:56 pm

greengoblin wrote:bbc bias is very blatant on this. Obvious that they love Obama and want gun control. What people don't get is that in a country as large as the USA, gun controls would be incredibly difficult to enforce.

Granted it would not be straightforward to start down the path towards effective gun control. But I guess that's exactly how the NRA want it and is a reflection of the years of craven submission to the American gun lobby. The lobby's only response to the mass slaughter seems to be - let's have even more people carrying guns around.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sun 04 Oct 2015, 10:49 pm

Im not a huge Jim Jefferies fan, but his stand up where he talks about guns in the US is brilliant.

by **Hero** Mon 05 Oct 2015, 12:09 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Im not a huge Jim Jefferies fan, but his stand up where he talks about guns in the US is brilliant.

I am a huge Jim Jeffries fan and yes it is brilliant.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:01 am

greengoblin wrote:To all to you British folk here (and I include myself), here's what you tolerate in Britain: British soldier decapitated in the street, RAF servicemen moved away from patients so he won't 'offend different cultures'. We are the absolute pits of a country so please don't take the moral high ground on the USA. Maybe they don't want to become dumb serfs to a liberal elite.

Duty??

by TopHat24/7 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:08 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I also don't understand the opinion that we the British public turned a blind eye to the Lee Rigby murder, that single death sent shock-waves around the country and the perpetrators were deemed to be scum. That we as a country have moved on from executing these people doesn't mean we tolerate their abhorrent crimes, it's a sign that we live in the 21st century not the 19th when it was an eye for an eye.

Whilst I 100% agree with your post, and tenor, little things like it taking till now (and significant amount of social pressure) for a simple memorial plaque (or similar) to be placed at the scene do still wrankle (sp?). Like we're embarrassed about taking pride in stuff. Ditto the RAF serviceman treatmant (and similar instances) which is nothing short of disgraceful.

The only time I ever admire the French is their refusal not to bow or cower to the risk of causing offence. Brits (establishment in particular) are pathetically meek in comparison.

by TopHat24/7 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:09 am

Hero wrote:Well the American Gun Lobby estimate 2.5 million lives a year are saved due to using guns in self-defence.

Now two points from that:

1. If it is the case, then seriously wtf is going in America to have that number of crimes that could result in death (and how many of the perpetrators of the crimes were brandishing a gun?)
2. What a load of hogwash.

3. As, I think, Kingy already pointed out - they surely only 'saved lives' because some nut on the other side of the incident was also brandishing a loaded gun (probably bought from the local convenience store).

by Duty281 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 10:52 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:
greengoblin wrote:To all to you British folk here (and I include myself), here's what you tolerate in Britain: British soldier decapitated in the street, RAF servicemen moved away from patients so he won't 'offend different cultures'. We are the absolute pits of a country so please don't take the moral high ground on the USA. Maybe they don't want to become dumb serfs to a liberal elite.

Duty??

Not quite!

Damn close, though. Whistle

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 12:02 pm

There was a vote in the senate in 2013 on bringing in more stringent background checks...and they fell well short of the 60 votes needed......

A few Republicans voted for it........But they'd be from more moderate/liberal states....

by kingraf Mon 05 Oct 2015, 12:30 pm

I said it on a previous thread on gun control. People just aren't gonna look at this the same. Some people go "If the shooter didn't have a gun this wouldn't have happened". While others go "If the victim had a gun, this wouldn't have happened".

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 12:41 pm

These are copycat killings..........The anti social kids who do this type of crime see it as a way of gaining some infamy at the expense of the kids they blame for shunning them..

I think more education is needed to spot potential deviants like this.....Because guns aren't going anywhere..

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 05 Oct 2015, 4:35 pm

kingraf wrote:I said it on a previous thread on gun control. People just aren't gonna look at this the same. Some people go "If the shooter didn't have a gun this wouldn't have happened". While others go "If the victim had a gun, this wouldn't have happened".

The first proposition is rational, the latter isn't. At least, not in a supposed civilised, advanced 21st century. The blanket idea that civilians are all competent to act rationally with a firearm in situations of maximum adrenaline is unbelievably naive.
Can you imagine the scene at that Batman showing? In the dark? When maybe a dozen people are all waving firearms around and shouting? Absurd.
The fact it would be undoubtedly difficult to get guns under control in the States doesn't mean the legislature shouldn't try. Doing nothing is a pathetic response. That said, the situation in America is undoubtedly going to continue unabated, probably until some rich white folks' children get blown away in their dozens. Multiple times.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 05 Oct 2015, 5:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:These are copycat killings..........The anti social kids who do this type of crime see it as a way of gaining some infamy at the expense of the kids they blame for shunning them..

I think more education is needed to spot potential deviants like this.....Because guns aren't going anywhere..

There could probably be some education of the media too, who consistently flout much-vaunted guidelines in dealing with the perpetrators of these acts. Often the same outlets who want to give you all the gruesome details of a suicide, completely disinterested in the impact it has on those with mindsets that really do not need influencing on the matter.

Still, I think this shows the flaws of politics. Things can't change because bankrollers don't want it to happen and politicians are at their behest.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 05 Oct 2015, 7:01 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:These are copycat killings..........The anti social kids who do this type of crime see it as a way of gaining some infamy at the expense of the kids they blame for shunning them..

I think more education is needed to spot potential deviants like this.....Because guns aren't going anywhere..

The chief of police made a very good point when this story broke that the perpetrator should not be humanised with a name.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 05 Oct 2015, 7:04 pm

Politicians are getting a lot of flak on here but it's not really their fault......They are reflecting public opinion.....For sure they run on gun lobby money but all the polls say that people are for keeping guns.....

Politicians want to keep their jobs............Until a seismic shift in public opinion happens then it's business as usual..

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 05 Oct 2015, 7:31 pm

Further to the gun discussion, news that an 11 year old boy used his Dad's shotgun to shoot his 8 year old neighbour on Sunday because she wouldnt let him play with her puppy. She died in hospital.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 06 Oct 2015, 8:59 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Politicians are getting a lot of flak on here but it's not really their fault......They are reflecting public opinion.....For sure they run on gun lobby money but all the polls say that people are for keeping guns.....

Politicians want to keep their jobs............Until a seismic shift in public opinion happens then it's business as usual..

And therein lies a major problem both in the U.S. and the U.K. I disagree that politicians should follow public opinion like sheep. Consult - yes. Sometimes the best thing isn't in the interest of popular self-interest.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 06 Oct 2015, 9:00 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Further to the gun discussion, news that an 11 year old boy used his Dad's shotgun to shoot his 8 year old neighbour on Sunday because she wouldnt let him play with her puppy. She died in hospital.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 06 Oct 2015, 9:24 am

12 year old boy in Bristol killed his 6 month old brother by stabbing him 17 times... picard

by **Pal Joey** Tue 06 Oct 2015, 9:39 am

Also some young boy shooting a little girl because she wouldn't let him see her puppy.
All horrific tragedies.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 06 Oct 2015, 9:57 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:12 year old boy in Bristol killed his 6 month old brother by stabbing him 17 times...

USA pulls one back on UK/civilised world's lead of a few hundred thousand....... Rolling Eyes

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 06 Oct 2015, 10:43 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:These are copycat killings..........The anti social kids who do this type of crime see it as a way of gaining some infamy at the expense of the kids they blame for shunning them..

I think more education is needed to spot potential deviants like this.....Because guns aren't going anywhere..

The chief of police made a very good point when this story broke that the perpetrator should not be humanised with a name.

Agree whole heartedly...........Deny them the publicity they are seeking.....

Troubled kids.......We have to better educate so those in authority pick up signs.......The same with teen suicides....

Have to study these kids better....So we can stop more heart break..

by **Pal Joey** Tue 06 Oct 2015, 10:56 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Further to the gun discussion, news that an 11 year old boy used his Dad's shotgun to shoot his 8 year old neighbour on Sunday because she wouldnt let him play with her puppy. She died in hospital.

Sorry Ziggy... didn't see this post further up.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 07 Oct 2015, 10:04 am

We've decided to live in a gun society and we have to take the consequences for it.....If someone breaks into your house over here there is a 99% chance he hasn't got a gun which means you can over power him or at least try to...

Back home If someone breaks into your home there is a high probability he's armed so I can understand people not wanting to dispense with guns......The bad guys aren't going to give their guns up in any amnesty....

I'd happily shoot anybody who comes into my house putting my family at risk If I lived back home...

I'd happily try to over power someone over here...

Just the way it is..We've chosen the dark side..

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Wed 07 Oct 2015, 8:28 pm

Pr4wn wrote:If you haven't seen it already, watch Jim Jeffries on gun crime. I know he's a comedian, but he makes some extremely solid points. There really is no argument against gun control other than "bugger off, I like guns".

Looked this up and it's really excellent points (obviously in amongst Jeffries's usual humour act).

You do wonder just how many children have to die for change to happen. You've got kids killing other kids with guns as well. What a shambles

by Hammersmith harrier Wed 07 Oct 2015, 8:39 pm

Olly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:If you haven't seen it already, watch Jim Jeffries on gun crime. I know he's a comedian, but he makes some extremely solid points. There really is no argument against gun control other than "bugger off, I like guns".

Looked this up and it's really excellent points (obviously in amongst Jeffries's usual humour act).

You do wonder just how many children have to die for change to happen. You've got kids killing other kids with guns as well. What a shambles

Nobody cares till somebody famous dies.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 07 Oct 2015, 9:39 pm

Like JFK ???

by dummy_half Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:26 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Like JFK ???

Or John Lennon, or several (c)rap musicians...

Truss is right - for reasons of history, the US has the right to bear arms enshrined in their Constitution and a collective mentality that this is correct and that the guns are there to be used. Obviously some of those uses (e.g. hunting, target shooting) are legitimate, but there are some people who extend that to using guns on other people.

There are deep-rooted cultural / self-image causes for the rate of gun crime in the US. After all, while the popular stereotypical image of an Englishman is someone wearing a suit and bowler hat, that of an American is a cowboy.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 9:52 am

The problems must go deeper than simply gun ownership. Both Canada and Switzerland have higher gun ownership rates but firearm homicide rates are only a fraction of those in the US.

by dummy_half Thu 08 Oct 2015, 11:18 am

Tophat

The 'facts' about Canada and Switzerland are not true - Switerland has a bit less than half the gun ownership rate of the US, and Canada a bit less than a third (and is comparable with France and Germany). What is true though is that the homicide rates of all these countries are way down on the US.

A quick US to UK comparison - the likelihood of being murdered with a gun in the UK is about 1/80th of that in the US, and even taking into account the relative rates of gun ownership, a privately owned gun in the US is about 5 times more likely to be used in a homicide than one in the UK.

by **seanmichaels** Thu 08 Oct 2015, 11:38 am

TopHat24/7 wrote:The problems must go deeper than simply gun ownership. Both Canada and Switzerland have higher gun ownership rates but firearm homicide rates are only a fraction of those in the US.

It is all those f*cking wierdos on internet forums. Wait....

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 12:35 pm

dummy_half wrote:Tophat

The 'facts' about Canada and Switzerland are not true - Switerland has a bit less than half the gun ownership rate of the US, and Canada a bit less than a third (and is comparable with France and Germany). What is true though is that the homicide rates of all these countries are way down on the US.

A quick US to UK comparison - the likelihood of being murdered with a gun in the UK is about 1/80th of that in the US, and even taking into account the relative rates of gun ownership, a privately owned gun in the US is about 5 times more likely to be used in a homicide than one in the UK.

Demographics are to blame...........Education and job wise... If you're black in America or from other minorities (To a lesser extent) chances are you will be short changed in those two departments....

It's less than 50 years from the civil rights act.....

We have an unfair and unequal society and the answer is disenfranchisement......Therefore life becomes cheaper as you don't see a way out of your position in life.....

We still have a long way to go

by dummy_half Thu 08 Oct 2015, 1:38 pm

Truss

I've no doubt that the factors you mention do come into play. Not sure it's even necessarily about race / minorities - the working class white southerner is also a disadvantaged/disenfranchised class (or at least perceive themselves to be so) and are amongst the strongest advocates of the right to bear arms.

Of course, while these demographic issues exist in the US, they are not to the same extent as in South Africa, which manages an even worse record on gun-related violence (indeed, on violent crimes generally).

Still doesn't explain why so many Americans are so intent on keeping gun control to a minimum, and can't see that the situation that led to the 2nd amendment being drafted as it was no longer applies, and that some extension of gun control (at Federal level) would be beneficial.

The NRA is not wrong to say that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people', but they miss the next logical step which is that people with access to guns find it much easier to kill people (and especially some of the weapons that are available...).

As an aside, Bill Bryson was being interviewed on the radio yesterday, and he made an interesting comment about how it is a shame that so few Americans travel (iirc, it is just fewer than 50% even have a passport), and so how insular they are in their thinking. Given additionally how overwhelmingly dominant the USA is in English language popular culture, they simply don't see that there are other ways to do things.

by TopHat24/7 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 1:39 pm

Except the most vocal supporters of lax gun ownership laws are white, often the 'redneck' fraternity but the wealthy and middle classes also.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 08 Oct 2015, 1:56 pm

dummy_half wrote:Truss

I've no doubt that the factors you mention do come into play. Not sure it's even necessarily about race / minorities - the working class white southerner is also a disadvantaged/disenfranchised class (or at least perceive themselves to be so) and are amongst the strongest advocates of the right to bear arms.

Of course, while these demographic issues exist in the US, they are not to the same extent as in South Africa, which manages an even worse record on gun-related violence (indeed, on violent crimes generally).

Still doesn't explain why so many Americans are so intent on keeping gun control to a minimum, and can't see that the situation that led to the 2nd amendment being drafted as it was no longer applies, and that some extension of gun control (at Federal level) would be beneficial.

The NRA is not wrong to say that 'guns don't kill people, people kill people', but they miss the next logical step which is that people with access to guns find it much easier to kill people (and especially some of the weapons that are available...).

As an aside, Bill Bryson was being interviewed on the radio yesterday, and he made an interesting comment about how it is a shame that so few Americans travel (iirc, it is just fewer than 50% even have a passport), and so how insular they are in their thinking. Given additionally how overwhelmingly dominant the USA is in English language popular culture, they simply don't see that there are other ways to do things.

America is like Europe a load of Countries banged into one..............More chance of someone from the North having more in common with Canadians and British than the Southern States and places like Hawaii....I'm from New England...

It's not really as insular as you think especially up North..........

Fact is the pro gun supporters have all the money and their message is more powerful..........The polls also show Americans are pro-guns and people want to get elected...

Took till 1865 for the 13th amendment on slavery, 1968 for Johnson to sign in civil rights and 1965 for Johnson to sign in medicare.....

Change is a slow process in America and until the polls suggest people are anti-guns it ain't changing anytime soon.

by Rowley Thu 08 Oct 2015, 7:37 pm

I always think this stat about the number of Americans who don't have passports is a bit misleading. If you lived in the states why would you need to go anywhere else on holiday? There is pretty much everything there, there is the weather, beaches, museums, amusement parks, wildlife, the great outdoors. Whatever floats your boat you can find somewhere that will fulfills your need. Appreciate it is not as simple as that, but people travel for things they can't get at home, ergo there is less need to travel when you can get it at home.

by dummy_half Fri 09 Oct 2015, 7:27 am

Rowley

I can see your point regarding the States having almost every kind of place, but it does mean that many Americans only experience of a foreign culture is when they stray into a Hispanic area of one of their cities...

I've loved my holidays to various bits of the US, but there are lots of people there who have very narrow horizons.

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