Ireland's Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread - "You're wrong on several counts..."

[Don Alfonso]

First topic message reminder :

Alright.

The time for whinging at the Welsh, sniping at the Scots and educating the English is done. Playtime is over. The bitterness is dialled up to ten, the eye-patches producing metaphorical one-eyedness are donned, chips are placed on shoulders – it’s time for some proper, down n’ dirty, internecine bickering.

Who will go to the 2015 Rugby World Cup to play for Ireland?

Who should go?



The players have the following opportunities to shine like a diamond for Joe:


Emerging Ireland Tbilisi Cup

Emerging Italy v Emerging Ireland
Saturday 13th June 14:00 BST

Uruguay v Emerging Ireland
Wednesday 17th June 14:00 BST

Georgia v Emerging Ireland
Sunday 21st June 16:00 BST


Ireland Matches

Wales v Ireland
Millennium Stadium
Saturday 8th August

Ireland v Scotland
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 15th August

Ireland v Wales
Aviva Stadium
Saturday 29th August

England v Ireland
Twickenham Stadium
Saturday 5th September


31 players.

A 17/14 split? Has Madigan played himself off the plane? Do Ruddock or Trimble have enough time to make it back? Can Rory’s darts be trusted? Does POM spend too much time on the wing? Are Payne and Strauss “Irish” enough? Why is Reddan there? Has Zebo been by-passed? Is Cave too slow? Why Felix Jones?

HAVE AT THEE!

[George Carlin]

https://www.606v2.com/t60285-england-v-ireland-5-september

[Don Alfonso]

So, the 31 announced today? This evening?

[profitius]

So, the 31 announced today? This evening?

Monday or Tuesday. The players will know tonight.

[Notch]

So, the 31 announced today? This evening?

Tuesday I think.

[Don Alfonso]

Any final predictions?

[Artful_Dodger]

Isn't the deadline the 31st which is tomorrow?

[Notch]

Isn't the deadline the 31st which is tomorrow?

Yes, but surely that's the deadline for the final submission to the tournament organisers. I'm not sure that it's obligatory to have publicly announced it by then.

[Marshes]

If the squad was given by the deadline I'm sure it wouldn't stay under raps longer than a day. The 42 had the team right a good while before it was announced last week.

[Marshes]

Any final predictions?

Luke Fitz really shouldn't travel after two underwhelming games, and maybe the opposite for d. Kearney, he has never let himself down in green and looked the most dangerous option. If earls is fit he goes, maybe one of bowe or Kearney to drop out for Cave to cover 12 more.

I'd nearly say give Henderson another start against England to see if he can nail a place down, was an absolute monster yesterday and one of our few big ball carriers. White to sneak it, Healy will go too, which might mean bent gets a place.

[Notch]

If the squad was given by the deadline I'm sure it wouldn't stay under raps longer than a day. The 42 had the team right a good while before it was announced last week.

Yeah, I agree. We'll probably be hearing rumours in the media tonight/tomorrow before the announcement.

Think that any delay between submitting the squad and announcement is for the sake of a press conference.

[Don Alfonso]

Yeah, from the effusive praise for Dave from Joe, he's on the plane, and I'd agree that he should go in place of Fitzgerald.

I think they'll risk naming Healy, not sure whether they'll go with six props or five including Bent.

[Notch]

Any final predictions?

Luke Fitz really shouldn't travel after two underwhelming games, and maybe the opposite for d. Kearney, he has never let himself down in green and looked the most dangerous option. If earls is fit he goes, maybe one of bowe or Kearney to drop out for Cave to cover 12 more.

I'd nearly say give Henderson another start against England to see if he can nail a place down, was an absolute monster yesterday and one of our few big ball carriers. White to sneak it, Healy will go too, which might mean bent gets a place.

Might be worth trying out Donnacha Ryan and Paul O'Connell in the second row with Henderson at 6. Our most physical option,

[George Carlin]

Isn't the deadline the 31st which is tomorrow?

Yes, but surely that's the deadline for the final submission to the tournament organisers. I'm not sure that it's obligatory to have publicly announced it by then.

You have to announce publicly by 1 September.

[Rory_Gallagher]

Any final predictions?

Luke Fitz really shouldn't travel after two underwhelming games, and maybe the opposite for d. Kearney, he has never let himself down in green and looked the most dangerous option. If earls is fit he goes, maybe one of bowe or Kearney to drop out for Cave to cover 12 more.

I'd nearly say give Henderson another start against England to see if he can nail a place down, was an absolute monster yesterday and one of our few big ball carriers. White to sneak it, Healy will go too, which might mean bent gets a place.

Might be worth trying out Donnacha Ryan and Paul O'Connell in the second row with Henderson at 6. Our most physical option,

Especially when Peter O'Mahony went off carrying a knock. Plus I would really like to see what Henderson, O'Brien and Heaslip are like together in the back row. To be honest, it may be what we need to bully other teams physically.

[Notch]

Isn't the deadline the 31st which is tomorrow?

Yes, but surely that's the deadline for the final submission to the tournament organisers. I'm not sure that it's obligatory to have publicly announced it by then.

You have to announce publicly by 1 September.

Okay, so thats Tuesday then!

[Marshes]

Any final predictions?

Luke Fitz really shouldn't travel after two underwhelming games, and maybe the opposite for d. Kearney, he has never let himself down in green and looked the most dangerous option. If earls is fit he goes, maybe one of bowe or Kearney to drop out for Cave to cover 12 more.

I'd nearly say give Henderson another start against England to see if he can nail a place down, was an absolute monster yesterday and one of our few big ball carriers. White to sneak it, Healy will go too, which might mean bent gets a place.

Might be worth trying out Donnacha Ryan and Paul O'Connell in the second row with Henderson at 6. Our most physical option,

Especially when Peter O'Mahony went off carrying a knock. Plus I would really like to see what Henderson, O'Brien and Heaslip are like together in the back row. To be honest, it may be what we need to bully other teams physically.

Want to see Hendorson at 6 as well, I'm just thinking his similarities to Ferris at 6. O Mahoney brings good balance to the back row which was something Ireland stuggled with for a long time, and he is nuisance at the breakdown. I could prefer my locks to be more abrasive than Toner is despite his work-rate and line-out skills so would favour Henderson getting another chance. But both very good options, could be both can be more effective depending on the opposition

[marty2086]

If earls is fit he goes, maybe one of bowe or Kearney to drop out for Cave to cover 12 more

I don't see why so many want Earls to go, hes dangerous in open play, good in defence but going into contact he seems a liability at the minute.

In the two games against Wales he lost the ball too many times and in big games they are going to be tighter with fine margins deciding them, if you keep losing the ball your in trouble

[GunsGerms]

I wouldnt be concerned if Ealrs was picked. I think Dave Kearney probably deserves it more at this stage and he is an exceptional player so will probably get the nod.

[thebandwagonsociety]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

[Guest]

I can't see Toner being dropped. What makes you think so?

Rumour that Trimble will miss out. If Trimble misses out, and Fitz makes it, I won't be happy. I don't believe it at this point though.

DK has proved his worth. He has taken his chance well, and deserves to be included in the squad, I think. If Zebo is included, it will only be because he covers FB, I think.

[Notch]

Rumour that Trimble will miss out. If Trimble misses out, and Fitz makes it, I won't be happy. I don't believe it at this point though.

It would have to be a decision based on Fitzgerald covering centre, because head to head in terms of what they offer as wingers there really is no comparison. One is much better than the other. But if Trimble is left out I think he would be the first player to be called up if there were any injuries so I wouldn't rule whoever misses out out of the tournament.

[Notch]

Only way Toner would be in any danger is if they only took three locks including Henderson. Given Henderson can play 6, can't see it happening. Tuohy was awful not just against Scotland but also for Ulster in their pre-season games. No way he would shade Ryan, Henderson or Toner. He's blown his big chance at this stage.

[Guest]

Rumour that Trimble will miss out. If Trimble misses out, and Fitz makes it, I won't be happy. I don't believe it at this point though.

It would have to be a decision based on Fitzgerald covering centre, because head to head in terms of what they offer as wingers there really is no comparison. One is much better than the other. But if Trimble is left out I think he would be the first player to be called up if there were any injuries so I wouldn't rule whoever misses out out of the tournament.

My complaint would be that Fitz doesn't deserve his place based on his ability to cover centre though. One of Fitz or Earls should be selected, and I would pick Earls for his form at wing. Not his ability at centre.

[Notch]

I agree with you. Fitzgerald also only covers outside centre, a little bit, and not very well. It would be a very strange selection if someone is left out to accommodate Fitzgerald. With his form, his injury record... I can't see why he's still in the frame.

[Guest]

Only way Toner would be in any danger is if they only took three locks including Henderson. Given Henderson can play 6, can't see it happening. Tuohy was awful not just against Scotland but also for Ulster in their pre-season games. No way he would shade Ryan, Henderson or Toner. He's blown his big chance at this stage.

Yes, Tuohy doesn't deserve a place. He hasn't been the same since returning from injury.
Even if they only took three, including Henderson, I don't see Ryan getting in ahead of Toner. I think Ryan is the better lock, but Toners ability at line out, and his experience with POC, gives him an edge over Ryan, I think. Just.

[Guest]

I agree with you. Fitzgerald also only covers outside centre, a little bit, and not very well. It would be a very strange selection if someone is left out to accommodate Fitzgerald. With his form, his injury record... I can't see why he's still in the frame.

He shouldn't be. That's why I won't be happy to see Trimble missing out, and Fitz included. Might not happen though

[Notch]

What I will say is if you sub-divide it into players competing for the left wing spot and players competing for the right-wing spot it breaks down as;

Left wing

Zebo, Earls, Fitzgerald

Right wing

Kearney, Bowe, Trimble

[Notch]

But Kearney has played left wing before, as have Bowe and Trimble, so still see that as a bit dubious.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Just after rewatching the game and I'm pretty happy with the way the team is going.We tried a few quick lineouts and counter attacks that we hadn't been doing previously and our set piece still looks pretty good (not great but solid) even with a 2nd/3rd choice front row.

[GunsGerms]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

[Notch]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

I agree. There hasn't been a more underrated and unfairly criticised player since Paddy Wallace. The kind of player fans criticise but their fellow players know how good they are.

[Guest]

But Kearney has played left wing before, as have Bowe and Trimble, so still see that as a bit dubious.

It is. I'm not convinced Fitz would offer more than any of Trimble, Kearney or Bowe if they had to switch sides. Kearney and Trimble worked well enough in the 6N's before last.

[GunsGerms]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

I agree. There hasn't been a more underrated and unfairly criticised player since Paddy Wallace. The kind of player fans criticise but their fellow players know how good they are.

Ah did you have to compare him to Paddy Wallace.

[Sin é]

What I will say is if you sub-divide it into players competing for the left wing spot and players competing for the right-wing spot it breaks down as;

Left wing

Zebo, Earls, Fitzgerald

Right wing

Kearney, Bowe, Trimble

Earls plays on the right wing for Munster (since Doug Howlett retired). I'd imagine he was just playing him on the left on Saturday because he hasn't played there much (and if covering for centre, there is less disruption to move in from 11 to 13).

[Notch]

I think it's because there are plenty of other options who play right wing already Sin

[Notch]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

I agree. There hasn't been a more underrated and unfairly criticised player since Paddy Wallace. The kind of player fans criticise but their fellow players know how good they are.

Ah did you have to compare him to Paddy Wallace.

Similar thing, people massively under rating them, slagging them off, can't believe he's been selected again etc.

What they are are team players who wring every ounce out of their talent and do their job with no mistakes.

[GunsGerms]

Rumour has it that Trimble, Moore and Boss have been left out. Only 2 nines picked and Cave, Kearney, Earls, Fitz and Bowe made the squad.

Forwards: Rory Best, Sean Cronin, Richardt Strauss, Cian Healy, Jack McGrath, Nathan White, Mike Ross, Tadgh Furlong, Iain Henderson, Paul O’Connell, Donnacha Ryan, Devin Toner, Jamie Heaslip, Chris Henry, Jordi Murphy, Sean O’Brien, Peter O’Mahony

Backs (14) Tommy Bowe, Darren Cave, Dave Kearney, Keith Earls, Luke Fitzgerald, Robbie Henshaw, Paddy Jackson, Rob Kearney, Ian Madigan, Conor Murray, Jared Payne, Eoin Reddan, Johnny Sexton, Simon Zebo.

[Notch]

Well, if you have Cave in there the selection of Fitzgerald will be the big talking point. He would be an extremely lucky boy.

[Notch]

I'm seeing that the source of that squad is a website no-one has really heard of... now I'm not saying they are wrong but given how desperate everybody is for any information if you wanted to promote your website and get some traffic positing up a rumour about the squad would be a good way to do it, regardless of whether it's based on facts or not.

[Sin é]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

[Don Alfonso]

That would be a weird one if true. Unless Trimble's not 100%.

If he's fit, he'd literally be first choice on the wing for me.

[Notch]

Yeah, even Bowe over Trimble is a head-scratcher.

[Golden]

How did they go for ulster?

[GunsGerms]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

and yet Ireland are the 3rd ranked team in world rugby. Shows how much you know.

[eirebilly]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

The times i had seen him at International level previously, he was indeed very average. That said, these last two warm up games he has played very well and seems to have bulked up slightly and is braver going into contact than he once was. He may not be a standout in defence or under the high ball but he certainly was no worse than others in that department and didnt let the side down. I would have no complaints if he were selected now.

[Rory_Gallagher]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

and yet Ireland are the 3rd ranked team in world rugby. Shows how much you know.

He was easily one of our best wingers so far this season based on his game against Wales.

[GunsGerms]

So Toner to be dropped?
Is Trimble gone?
Can't believe after all the 'Daverage' mud slinging on this forum over the last few seasons that he is being put into the rwc by people.

Daverage is just a moniker coined by bitter fans that prefer to see someone from their own province. When has Dave Kearney ever let the Irish team down? He is a really good player and in the mix on merit IMO. He is one of those players that coaches love because you know you can count on him to follow the scrip and he has the talent to meet expectations.

Nothing bitter about it. He is an average player who wouldn't get into any other Top 10 country in the world.

The times i had seen him at International level previously, he was indeed very average. That said, these last two warm up games he has played very well and seems to have bulked up slightly and is braver going into contact than he once was. He may not be a standout in defence or under the high ball but he certainly was no worse than others in that department and didnt let the side down. I would have no complaints if he were selected now.

He played every game of the 14 winning 6 nations campaign and was integral to our sucess that year. He was also excellent v NZ when we came close.

Kearney may not flick the ball rather than catch it or make a D shape with his hands when he scores but I cant remember him having a bad game for Ireland.

[eirebilly]

I guess being out paced by a flanker is a good sign of solid wing play these days

I honestly did feel that he was average at International level, he was not close to the other wingers Ireland had at the time but he has come on strong and is deserved of his place.

[GunsGerms]

I guess being out paced by a flanker is a good sign of solid wing play these days

I honestly did feel that he was average at International level, he was not close to the other wingers Ireland had at the time but he has come on strong and is deserved of his place.

It was a lock and he wasnt outpaced by him he stepped in field towards him where the space and support was. He would walk into the Munster team especially given only Leinster rejects make the wing in Munster these days.

[eirebilly]

Why does everything come down to prvincial with you guns?

I didnt rate Dave Kearney but feel he has done well and earnt a place in the squad = must have dig at Munster...

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