Eddie Hearn and the big fights

I was a big advocate of Hearn when he started to make inroads. Let's be honest, boxing needed a revamp. Of late, I have been very critical of him. I appreciate some of his honesty about the importance of building boxing as a sport that casual fans like, and some other stuff, but he has also soured me.

Firstly, his Sky cards are sub par. Too many fights that aren't competitive or entertaining.

The major thing, however, is how he handles making the big fight.

I agree that Khan should fight Brook, and that Khan is a bit delusional in terms of his personal worth and what fights he can get (May/Pac). But Hearn seems to have really wound him up to the point where the Brook fight may not happen. Booking Wembley, etc., Khan hasn't liked it.

Groves and Hearn have basically had a public spat since the Froch fights. Groves seems determined not to do anything Hearn wants him to do, including fighting his natural rival, Degale.

Now the Frampton Quigg saga.

As isolated incidents you can blame either party, but is Hearn getting in his and our way when it comes to making the big fights?

How do you feel about it?

As for Khan sean, Hearn just offered the best most lucrative fight out there for Khan. The big fights sell so Hearn was just trying to do the obvious thing. Khan is the one who messed people around not Brook.

Its telling that team Khan have come out and made these statements that Hearn was disrespectful. The Khans have an inflated view of themselves and clearly don't want to face Brook its a clear duck. Who wants to hear ''we will fight Brook next year'' when the fight is available for both NOW.

Hearn is in a good position better then any boxing promoter in the UK so why should he not go on the front foot?

If he was to stay quite as a mouse he would be like a Hennessy and no fights would be made. I don't think fast car has nailed the promoting milarky but he is trying to bring us fans the fights we will be happy to see.

Who here would not want to see

Khan v Brook
Quigg v Frampton
Groves v Degale?????

I said the other day Sean I get the impression currently a lot of promoters enter negotiations more from the position of ensuring they do not get the blame for a fight not happening, rather than ensuring a fight gets made. I appreciate if you’re blameless in an affair you want to ensure you don’t get the blame but stunts like waving the cheque around are always going to antagonise the other parties and in a negotiation I struggle to see how that is helpful.

If you wanted to be kind to him you could say it is a product of the multi media, 24 hour news, social media age we live in but I can’t help shake the nagging suspicion he is just trying to insulate himself from blame when things fall through. Hearn has had a good run and has obviously had some good fortune (Groves Froch 2 falling into his lap being an example) but boxing promoting is a ruthless and tough business, he was always going to go through a rough patch but personally I think he could well do with just shutting up about one of the big fights he is working on and not open his mouth until the names are on the contracts, the silence would be welcome, as would a fight actually coming off, as his summer which promised much is looking like a bit of a damp squib at the minute.

Good points made by both of you.

Does Hearn shoot himself in the foot by making public his Frampton offer? Rigo and Donaire will be all over him for a fight at that price. A price he won't likely be able to offer them as there is no British angle

Rowley wrote:I said the other day Sean I get the impression currently a lot of promoters enter negotiations more from the position of ensuring they do not get the blame for a fight not happening, rather than ensuring a fight gets made. I appreciate if you’re blameless in an affair you want to ensure you don’t get the blame but stunts like waving the cheque around are always going to antagonise the other parties and in a negotiation I struggle to see how that is helpful.

If you wanted to be kind to him you could say it is a product of the multi media, 24 hour news, social media age we live in but I can’t help shake the nagging suspicion he is just trying to insulate himself from blame when things fall through. Hearn has had a good run and has obviously had some good fortune (Groves Froch 2 falling into his lap being an example) but boxing promoting is a ruthless and tough business, he was always going to go through a rough patch but personally I think he could well do with just shutting up about one of the big fights he is working on and not open his mouth until the names are on the contracts, the silence would be welcome, as would a fight actually coming off, as his summer which promised much is looking like a bit of a damp squib at the minute.

Promoters are supposed to be excitable tho. From Tex Rickard to Don King, brash confident promoters tend to get the job done. Yeah they may not toe the line but there job firstly is to attract and controversy and exuberant acts tend to get peoples attention.

I can't understand how boxing fans can have a problem with un-orthodox promoters. To this day I don't know what that Suanderland German promoter looks like, I struggle to visualise Hennessy although I am certain he is quite round but Hearn is very recognisable just like his old man was back in the 90's.

The checque waver is an age old stunt, that serves two purposes... It tries to a) publically force the other partiy's hand, whilst b) putting blame at their door.

The downside to it, is it pisses them off... And unless it's too big an offer for them to refuse,  part a) doesn't happen and the public get to decide on part b.

I wonder what the success rate is for fights happening after a cheque waving incident?

Sean, don't think it sets a precedent for eddie on the value of other fights.

Seanusarrilius wrote:Does Hearn shoot himself in the foot by making public his Frampton offer? Rigo and Donaire will be all over him for a fight at that price. A price he won't likely be able to offer them as there is no British angle

Rigo has offered his services for a fraction of the price, so Eddie has really dropped both he and Quigg in the filth with that move.

hampo171 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Does Hearn shoot himself in the foot by making public his Frampton offer? Rigo and Donaire will be all over him for a fight at that price. A price he won't likely be able to offer them as there is no British angle

Rigo has offered his services for a fraction of the price, so Eddie has really dropped both he and Quigg in the filth with that move.

Not really when nobody but the hardcore know who Rigondeaux is.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

hampo171 wrote:

Seanusarrilius wrote:Does Hearn shoot himself in the foot by making public his Frampton offer? Rigo and Donaire will be all over him for a fight at that price. A price he won't likely be able to offer them as there is no British angle

Rigo has offered his services for a fraction of the price, so Eddie has really dropped both he and Quigg in the filth with that move.

Not really when nobody but the hardcore know who Rigondeaux is.

Nobody but the hardcore know who Quigg is so that doesn't really matter does it.

In the context of British boxing and Carl Frampton they do though which is the only market that matters to him. Quigg against Frampton can tap into that market which is why Rigondeaux unfortunately is an irrelevance as the masses will never be wanting it to happen.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Promoters are supposed to be excitable tho. From Tex Rickard to Don King,

They made the fights though, if Eddie had Frampton and Quigg signed I would not give a flying one how many things he posted on Friends Reunited or whatever it is the young upstarts use nowadays

I can forgive him for failing to make any of these big fights. It takes two to tango. Khan has clearly been keen to swerve Brook for now for various reasons, negotiations for Frampton are difficult because of the TV networks situation and I dont really care about a snooze fest between DeGale and Groves anyway.

However, missing out on the PPV fights and then charging PPV for fights which should not be is unforgivable. As are his rubbish sky cards.

Also you are a promoter, its your job to lie and oversell everything, we understand that but please stop pretending everyones a mug by trying to persuade us you are some man of the people. Talk about havin your cake and tryin to eat it.

Rowley wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Promoters are supposed to be excitable tho. From Tex Rickard to Don King,

They made the fights though, if Eddie had Frampton and Quigg signed I would not give a flying one how many things he posted on Friends Reunited or whatever it is the young upstarts use nowadays

One direction unfriended you again for inappropriate suggestions?

Quigg is gonna have to fight Rigo at this rate. Otherwise he will be fighting for pebbles against some euro bum who may upset him.

Possibly but as hammer said, Rigo is for the purist so the clamour won't be that great for them to match up.

Not Hearn's greatest fan but I'm not sure Frampo v Quigg is all his fault...

Mcguigan seemed to think a part time pro in Cruz was bad management by Eastwood...

1.5 million without conditions is gold dust for a midget...

Barry has a goldmine....and he knows it..

I think Mcguigan is also a bit bound by his deal with ITV. I think he knows if he takes the biggest fight he can make on ITV to Sky Box Office, he will have issues getting them excited again. Complete speculation on my part.

I thought ITV did a great job with last Frampton fight and would love to see Quigg Frampton on there, but I appreciate Sky is where the money is

Barry's knows what Hearn is like from previous dealings.  Beyond the media friendly waffle Eddie is a dirty grubby money grabbing crass son of a bitch.

Strongback wrote:Barry's knows what Hearn is like from previous dealings.  Beyond the media friendly waffle Eddie is a dirty grubby money grabbing crass son of a bitch.

Have a big hug you big lug. hope that helps you feel better

Strongback wrote:Barry's knows what Hearn is like from previous dealings.  Beyond the media friendly waffle Eddie is a dirty grubby money grabbing crass son of a bitch.

#issues #hashtagisforlosers #changetherecord #ILoveEddieHearn #IworkforMatchroom

I think a lot of people get too caught up in the individual that is Eddie Hearn. He is the face and the voice of Matchroom boxing but is he the brains? I have my doubts. He is the son of the guy who built the company. What does he really know about promoting boxing? A lot of the stance on Matchroom seems to get muddied by whether people think Hearn is a cool guy or whether he is a d1ckhead.

My problem is Matchrooms boxing promotions. They have been especially abysmal over the last 6-12 months given the position they enjoy. Horribly uncompetitive cards, commitment to rip off ppvs, more focus on trying to be too clever by half on social media to manipulate fans than on actual delivering the fights fans want. And its only going downhill.

For example:

A painfully wasteful decade long quest for Kell Brook to fight a top ten opponent. Once he does then its a dogsh1t home card in a mismatch and paruchuted into another mismatch in order to give a card ppv credentials.

Quigg. Go nowhere fast despite being linked to every top name in the division. A Frampton fight should be a no brainer but Matchroom want the entire promotion to themselves so pull a cheap stunt to try and shift the blame. Hearns insinuation that co-promotion amounted to names on posters is typically bs. He wants control of all aspect of the promotion because he figures to make a killing and doesnt want to share with Framptons team.

2, maybe even 3 Sky dates wasted on building up a fight between Campbell and Coyle which is probably a mismatch.

Rubbish ppv events despite publically stating they would be reserved only for mega fights (Froch v Groves 1, Bellew v Cleverly II, Brook v Gavin)

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Strongback wrote:Barry's knows what Hearn is like from previous dealings.  Beyond the media friendly waffle Eddie is a dirty grubby money grabbing crass son of a bitch.

#issues #hashtagisforlosers #changetherecord #ILoveEddieHearn #IworkforMatchroom

As I said the other day # jokes are for wan.kers.

#missedtheIrony

People say Eddy doesn't want to share but what about the 60/40 split Eddy offered in Framps' favour?

Purse split and and control of the promotion are not the same thing.

Except surely he'd want the best for his fighter and 1.5mil or 60/40 is whats best for him seeing as he (more than likely) won't make the money anywhere else. Afterall Bazza is a saint and not at all like them other promoters.

Why does he surely want the want the best for his fighter?

He wants what is best for Matchroom Promotions. His Company.

I was on about Saint Barry.

All promoters are the same and want what is best for them. If Big Ed offered 2 mil i'd expect it to be turned down, not because it's a bad deal for Frampton but because it is for Barry.

I don't see the issue with a 1.5mil offer and if the Donaire deal (Or Rigo) comes off and Frampton ends up with Kiko III (This time he's better) then he could look a bit daft.

But my point is that the promoter is (and always will be) out for himself.

Yes and the fact they havent gone for the 1.5mil flat offer indicates they think they are worth a better. deal.

McGuigans team are claiming that Matchroom wont play ball on a straight up co-promotion. Hearn tried to publically deflect this as being just concerned about having their name on posters. The fact he would even insinuate this at tells you all you need to know about how straight he is shooting. There are a huge number of factors and revenue streams that go into an entire promotion, especially a ppv one. If you arent going to compromise on that when your fighter is Quigg and the opponent is Frampton then you are never going to get the fight in play.

The bottom line is Matchroom think they can make big bucks off the promotion and dont want to share control.

Can Frampton and Mcguigan get a deal that is anywhere near £1.5mil without Matchroom and Sky, no they can't hence why the latter don't want to share the promotion. Neither of them can make big money without the other so you can't place all the blame at Matchroom's door, one of them has to compromise and it won't be the company who can ensure big money.

Mcguigan can go on about other options but there are no other options, Rigondeaux destroyed his stock with a safety first display against Donaire who in turn is no longer a big name while Santa Cruz being an Al Haymon fighter will lead to exactly the same problems.

Frampton can make more money than Quigg but neither of them can make big money without fighting each other on Sky PPV and Matchroom know that so will not compromise on the promotion.

Yes, Matchroom are to blame. They are unwilling to make this a co-promotion, which is what it absolutely should be. They could make good money off a good fight that the fans want to see. But they dont want to share, or even talk seriously about sharing. Crap for boxing fans.

Frampton can off and make good money elsewhere if it doesnt come off. who knows about about Quigg? He is just one of many cogs in the Matchroom wheel.

Can anyone give a ballpark as to what kind of money is involved outside of ppv through other streams?

If Frampton is getting £1.5 mil how much is Eddie pocketing. Barry has a good idea and if he doesn't get a cut of the promotion he is saying no. This is about more money than £1.5 mi.

I couldnt tell you what the total figure would be. Depends on the magnitude of the event. Loads of factors to consider though - gate, catering, advertising, marketing, undercard, venue etc

A lot more than names on posters.

The 1.5 mil was entirely for Frampton Strongy.

The problem is like Catchweight says 'how much was Barry not going to get'

Strongback wrote:If Frampton is getting £1.5 mil how much is Eddie pocketing.  Barry has a good idea and if he doesn't get a cut of the promotion he is saying no.  This is about more money than £1.5 mi.

Then Frampton misses out it's that simple, it's ok for one promoter to think about his own pocket but no the other.

Like Catchweight touched upon, this is all Mcguigan has, he has nowhere else to whereas Hearn/Matchroom have a whole stable to fall back on.

Nothing wrong with Barry wanting to make some money if Eddy wants to make some money. Eddy must see that.

So... fight doesn't get made unless Eddy gives unequivocal co-promotion.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Nothing wrong with Barry wanting to make some money if Eddy wants to make some money. Eddy must see that.

So... fight doesn't get made unless Eddy gives unequivocal co-promotion.

Eddie then moves on Brook, Campbell, Joshua, Warrington as well as possibly Selby and Mitchell in the not too distant future, from his personal point of view he doesn't need Frampton or Mcguigan but Frampton does need him.

Some seem to be suggesting that Mcguigan has one over on Matchroom when in reality it's just one pie in a pie shop for them.

Everybody loses out on a good fight with Matchrooms stance.

Guess it's not Barry's fault after all.

catchweight wrote:Everybody loses out on a good fight with Matchrooms stance.

On Matchrooms and Mcguigans stance.

They're both to blame.

What is McGuigan to blame for? Wanting a co-promotion? Wanting to discuss a co-promotion?

Amazing what waving around a chequebook will do.

If Barry's so confident of winning, why doesn't he pass on his share on this one and make his money off Leo and Rigo. Beat those two and Framps is worth a fortune.

Because that would be retarded?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Nothing wrong with Barry wanting to make some money if Eddy wants to make some money. Eddy must see that.

So... fight doesn't get made unless Eddy gives unequivocal co-promotion.

Eddie then moves on Brook, Campbell, Joshua, Warrington as well as possibly Selby and Mitchell in the not too distant future, from his personal point of view he doesn't need Frampton or Mcguigan but Frampton does need him.

Some seem to be suggesting that Mcguigan has one over on Matchroom when in reality it's just one pie in a pie shop for them.

You wouldn't think that looking at Barry Hearn begging for Frampton v Quigg last year.

Frampton v Quigg is a proper PPV fight and Eddie badly needs this fight to give Sky one of the 4 PPV's he has promised them.

Eddie makes real money from PPV and he isn't sharing it with McGuigan.

catchweight wrote:Because that would be retarded?

I mean pass up on co-promotion and accept 60/40 ppv.

Because he thinks co-promotion is a reasonable demand and yeilds a better deal? He wants more control of certain aspects of the fight? He thinks Frampton is the bigger start and deserves more?

What do you think is the reason? McGuigan doesnt want the fight?