Britain vs USA- Are the Americans just edging us?

How do the best Brit fighters compare to the best American fighters weight by weight,lets take a look.

Flyweight: Lee Haskins vs Brian Viloria- Haskins UD 1-0

Super Flyweight: Don Broadhurst vs Raul Martinez- Martinez TKO mid 1-1

Bantamweight: Jamie McDonnell vs Chris Avalos- Mcdonnell UD 2-1

Super-Bantamweight- Rendall Munroe vs Teon Kennedy- Munroe by a close points decision 3-1

Featherweight: Stephen Smith vs Miguel Garcia- Garcia late KO 3-2

Super-Featherweight Ricky Burns vs Jason Litzau- Burns UD 4-2

Lightweight: John Murray vs Robert Guerrero- Guerrero by a late KO 4-3

Light Welterweight- Amir Khan vs Tim Bradley- Khan UD 5-3

Welterweight- Kell Brook vs Floyd Mayweather- Mayweather wide UD 5-4

Light-Middleweight- Ryan Rhodes vs Paul Williams- Williams late KO 5-5

Middleweight- Matthew Macklin vs Peter Manfredo Jr- Macklin to edge it 6-5

Super Middleweight- Carl Froch vs Andre Ward- Ward UD 6-6

Light-Heavyweight Nathan Cleverly vs Bernard Hopkins- Hopkins large UD 6-7

Cruiserweight- Ola Ofolabi vs Steve Cunningham- Cunningham UD 6-8

Heavyweight- David Haye vs Chris Arreola- Haye mid KO 7-8

So for me the Americans are just still edging us.

Post your predictions and score underneath and have your say on if you think where edging the Americans or vice-versa.

Froch & Ward is a controversial pick. I personally lean towards Froch in this won.

I'm not too sold on Haye as a HW and thus I'd pich Arreola to KO him.

But is American boxing that bad? Manfredo their best MW?

azania wrote:
But is American boxing that bad? Manfredo their best MW?

Is Pavlik now at SMW? Otherwise I'd have him as their best MW, or possibly Danny Jacobs.
Either one would KO Manfredo.

Funny thing is that, between 1965 and 1980 there weren't any US world champs at middleweight, either. Neither did they fare well at welter, with only Curtis Cokes and Billy Backus briefly providing some American input until the arrival of Sugar Ray Leonard.

It's the lack of dominance in the heavyweight division which hurts the US.

azania wrote:I'm not too sold on Haye as a HW and thus I'd pich Arreola to KO him.

But is American boxing that bad? Manfredo their best MW?

No way in the world Arreola beats Haye, he's far too easy to hit and would walk straight into a Hayemaker!

haye would KO arreola in under 3 rounds. would give the edge to froch and cleverley as well. also would class mayweather as retired, so i'd pit him against someone else.

Flyweight: Lee Haskins vs Brian Viloria- Haskins UD

Super Flyweight: Don Broadhurst vs Raul Martinez- Martinez Martinez KO late

Bantamweight: Jamie McDonnell vs Chris Avalos- Mcdonnell UD

Super-Bantamweight- Rendall Munroe vs Teon Kennedy- Munroe UD not that keen on either of them though.

Featherweight: Stephen Smith vs Miguel Garcia- Garcia KO mid

Super-Featherweight Ricky Burns vs Jason Litzau- Burns UD I think Broner is better than Litzau btw. I would pick Broner to stop Burns late.

Lightweight: John Murray vs Robert Guerrero- Guerrero early KO

Light Welterweight- Amir Khan vs Tim Bradley- Bradley late stoppage

Welterweight- Kell Brook vs Floyd Mayweather- Mayweather wide UD This should probably be against Ortiz the Money man is retired. Either way Kell loses imo.

Light-Middleweight- Ryan Rhodes vs Paul Williams- Williams KO early

Middleweight- Matthew Macklin vs Peter Manfredo Jr- Macklin KO mid. Do you think Manfredo Jnr is better than Jacobs? I don't I would pick Jacobs to stop Macklin late.

Super Middleweight- Carl Froch vs Andre Ward- Froch UD close one though

Light-Heavyweight Nathan Cleverly vs Bernard Hopkins- Hopkins wide UD

Cruiserweight- Ola Ofolabi vs Steve Cunningham- Cunningham late stoppage

Heavyweight- David Haye vs Chris Arreola- Haye KO round 2

On a head to head basis possibly but in Burns, Khan, Froch and Haye Britain has four guys who have a shot at proving themselves the best in their division with Cleverly also there or there abouts whereas America has what 3 in Cunningham, Hopkins and Ward?

Ortiz?
Bradley?
Cloud?

Of course meant to include Bradley

Pacquiao is a clear number one at Welterweight as is Hopkins at Light Heavyweight

At the top level there's very little between the top nations, for instance a fight between Haskins and Viloria means nothing as they aren't near the top

Anything lower than super featherweight is irrelevant on World terms. Pretty close at the top but I would have America just edging it.

Would hardly say that, it's not all that important to America but they're not the be all and end all any more, the japanese, mexicans, phillipinos and for other countries it's very relevant

I meant anything lower than super featherweight is irrelevant to this debate due to the lack of quality Britain and the USA possess at the lower weights.

Agree with most of it, but I think Bradley beats khan and froch beats ward.

I really believe Froch will beat Ward and there is no way Arreola beats Haye.

America just edge it imo. They just have more fighters at the top of divisions than us.

Depends on what you define as top of the division

Top 10 at each individual weight. The U.S have many more fighters than us in the top 10 of most weight classes.

one or two more possibly

as kev points out there, they have more fighters than Britain, due to the US being much much bigger.

I've left ut below super featherweight due to the fact we both lack good fighters in the lower weights.
Super featherweight
UK Burns
US Broner

Lightweight
UK Murray
US Rios, Guerrero

Light welterweight
UK Khan
US Bradley, Alexander, Holt, Judah, Peterson

Welterweight
UK Brook
US Mayweather, Ortiz, Berto, Jones

Light middleweight
UK Rhodes
US Bundrage

Middleweight
UK Macklin
US Williams

Super middleweight
UK Froch
US Ward, Pavlik, Dirrell

Light heavyweight
UK Cleverly
US Hopkins, Dawson, Cloud

Cruiserweight
UK Olafobi
US Cunningham

Heavyweight
UK Haye
US Arreola

The US are ahead on the number of top contenders but Mayweather aside not to sure about they are that far ahead in terms of quality.

Froch beats Ward 8-7 UK

KO-KING wrote:Froch beats Ward 8-7 UK

Froch is too sloppy,Ward will take him apart.

Ward is in a class above all super-middleweights. Will be rooting for Froch in there fight though.

Not sure Wards a class above really, think Froch wins a decisive decision

I dont see Froch beating Ward, let alone decisively. I see a wide UD for Ward. Ward has better defensive skills, faster hands and a boring safety style approach.

Basically Ward's expected to mug a boring, borderline cheating UD against Froch. Personally I'm not a fan. I like to see boxers who want to win 'cleanly', as opposed to the ugly, boring type of wins which Ward seems happy to take. I know there'll be a good many people who will defend Ward's hugging, mailing tactics, but I just don't garner any satisfaction from seeing a boxer win that way. In his post-fight interviews Ward talks about 'doing what it took to get the won't and of being pleased with the result, but I can't help but feel that if he's as good as he's made out to be he should use these supposedly superior 'clean' skills to achieve the win.

Against AA there wasn't the usual hugging and cheating tactics.

Was a superb performance. That fight convinces me that Ward would win.

AA is poor at SMW though Froch dealt with him pretty easily as well. I think Froch will win as long as he can keep Ward on the outside and not let him tie up inside where his head is his best weapon.

Froch has the better jab of the two and if he can dictate behind that then Wards speed will be negated some what

If Froch can dictate behind his jab then I think we might see a pretty clueless Ward get frustrated and go after Froch quite recklessly and get stopped late.

But Liam, of the three people who have beaten Abraham, Froch is the one who did the best job, and in my eyes was the first person to 'properly' beat him. Ward did a good job, but Abraham by that time had had his aura dispelled and was no longer the feared fighter he was after beating Taylor.

Froch doesn't utilise his jab as well as he can and should do. Ward uses all his skills and they are better that whatever Froch possesses. Wide UD for Ward.

I still not totally convinced of Froch having a great jab or skills. I think the Abraham fight flattered him a bit and wont have much bearing at all on a match with Ward.

I would be tempted to go with Ward at the moment as I think he has a bit more variety to his game and a bit more natural skills.

Used his jab pretty well during the second half of the Pascal and Taylor fights and the whole of the Abraham fight

Basically Ward's expected to mug a boring, borderline cheating UD against Froch. Personally I'm not a fan. I like to see boxers who want to win 'cleanly', as opposed to the ugly, boring type of wins which Ward seems happy to take. I know there'll be a good many people who will defend Ward's hugging, mailing tactics, but I just don't garner any satisfaction from seeing a boxer win that way. In his post-fight interviews Ward talks about 'doing what it took to get the won't and of being pleased with the result, but I can't help but feel that if he's as good as he's made out to be he should use these supposedly superior 'clean' skills to achieve the win.
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I don't think Froch will get robbed Baltimora, i think if he loses in a country like that he will lose fairly. The Americans are fair imo, just like us. However, one thing i really don't like is every one of Ward's fights has been either in America or his hometown. Froch can beat him if he imposes the fight to him and keeps his hands up, i don't like Ward's style at all, he needs ruffing up, i know he beat Kessler and Froch lost to him but Froch beat Pascal who is miles better than Kessler imo and much stronger. Froch to win by late stoppage.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Used his jab pretty well during the second half of the Pascal and Taylor fights and the whole of the Abraham fight

Ward is a very different fighter from those two. He will need to use it from round 1 if he is to stand a chance. Even then, Ward has a better jab.

@BALTIMORA
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Your right about Froch being the only one to really beat him properly (Abraham). Carl beat him up, boxed his head off and everything, Dirrell nicked the fight cowardly against Abraham imo and was beginning to get tagged big time at the time. And Ward had leftovers through no fault of his own as it is the super 6 format.

Steven_89 wrote:Basically Ward's expected to mug a boring, borderline cheating UD against Froch. Personally I'm not a fan. I like to see boxers who want to win 'cleanly', as opposed to the ugly, boring type of wins which Ward seems happy to take. I know there'll be a good many people who will defend Ward's hugging, mailing tactics, but I just don't garner any satisfaction from seeing a boxer win that way. In his post-fight interviews Ward talks about 'doing what it took to get the won't and of being pleased with the result, but I can't help but feel that if he's as good as he's made out to be he should use these supposedly superior 'clean' skills to achieve the win.
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I don't think Froch will get robbed Baltimora, i think if he loses in a country like that he will lose fairly. The Americans are fair imo, just like us. However, one thing i really don't like is every one of Ward's fights has been either in America or his hometown. Froch can beat him if he imposes the fight to him and keeps his hands up, i don't like Ward's style at all, he needs ruffing up, i know he beat Kessler and Froch lost to him but Froch beat Pascal who is miles better than Kessler imo and much stronger. Froch to win by late stoppage.

Hometown decisions happen everywhere. Dallas would agree to that.

When you say

"Ward uses all his skills"

I'm not so sure he does. He's gained a reputation for being a mauling, head-first home fighter. We keep hearing about Ward's gold medal and about how he has these great skills, but he doesn't seem to demonstrate much more than mugging and headbutting.

Featherweight: Stephen Smith vs Miguel Garcia- Garcia late KO 3-2
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I think Swifty beats this kid up, boxes his head off then stops him

BALTIMORA wrote:When you say

"Ward uses all his skills"

I'm not so sure he does. He's gained a reputation for being a mauling, head-first home fighter. We keep hearing about Ward's gold medal and about how he has these great skills, but he doesn't seem to demonstrate much more than mugging and headbutting.

Did you see his fight with AA?

I don think Ward has to rely on spoiling. Hes a pretty well rounded fighter.

I think hes faster Froch so should aim to beat Froch to the punch.

Froch is a strong SMW so I dont think Ward should rely on trying to bully him although I do he feel he has the edge as an inside fighter.

Steven_89 wrote:Featherweight: Stephen Smith vs Miguel Garcia- Garcia late KO 3-2
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I think Swifty beats this kid up, boxes his head off then stops him

Should be John Simpson and not Swifty anyway, Simpson was hard done to with those 2 decisions Smith got. Wouldn't matter to me I've only seen Garcia twice and he looked to have more about him than Smith. Smith struggled with Simpson who is no more than British level. Garcia would beat both imo. If Garcia could land half the number of punches Simpson did he would stop Smith in the middle rounds.

Did you see Froch's fight against AA prior to that?

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Did you see Froch's fight against AA prior to that?

Yes.

So what Ward did against him wasn't very impressive

azania wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Did you see Froch's fight against AA prior to that?

Yes.

See this is the thing. I'll hold up my hand and admit I've not seen Ward-Abraham, but the Abraham win isn't as impressive after his prior losses. The blueprint for beating AA was well documented and had been executed admirably (almost) twice. I just think if Ward is as good as his hype, why does he settle for fighting the way he did against Kessler, Green and Bika?

They both beat Abraham fairly comfortably.

If you look through their records though Froch is probably the more vunerable.

Ive never really seen Ward troubled in a fight. Froch squeaked by Dirrell, lost to Kessler and was largely outboxed by Taylor.

Abraham asked no real questions of either fighter so they both dealt with him quite easily.

I dont think Frochs jab is good enough to dictate a fight with Ward who has alot more to his game. There is evidence there that Froch struggles with the purer boxers and I think if Ward employs the right gameplan he has the skills to beat Froch.

Froch struggled in the Dirrell fight against a fighter who didnt come at him and made him chase. What won it for Froch was probably workrate and the fact Dirrell was not much good as an inside fighter.

Froch is a his best for me at mid range against an opponent who stands in front of him. If Ward does this then I think Froch should beat him here as he did with Pascal. If Ward adopts a cagier approach then I think he cold potentially make Froch chase and beat him to the punch coming in, aswell as getting the better of him on the inside tying him up.

Should be John Simpson and not Swifty anyway, Simpson was hard done to with those 2 decisions Smith got. Wouldn't matter to me I've only seen Garcia twice and he looked to have more about him than Smith. Smith struggled with Simpson who is no more than British level. Garcia would beat both imo. If Garcia could land half the number of punches Simpson did he would stop Smith in the middle rounds.
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Their first fight could of gone either way, i thought Swifty won the rematch, Simpson is above domestic level imo. He beat Lindsay then lost to Smith, these are above domestic level but not fighting for Euro honours