Lions Lock of Future

First topic message reminder :

Who do you think will be the next lions locks ?  i excl oconnell and others for being over the hill. Sorry Paul  

only vote for 2 please   

Don't get ASBO started on this. He will have his butler come on to tell us off

123456789 wrote:On Richie Gray I think he left Glasgow too early for the wrong club and is almost having to  start from scratch but he is the most talented of all the locks on the list except maybe his brother and hopefully will have proven that by 2017/.

With due respect - that is something stated through such Scottish tinted glasses to be pointless.
They are good players but so are Launchbury and Lawes in England
so is Henderson in Ireland and all three of them will improve significantly in the years ahead.

How you can claim the Grays are more talented than them is beyond me.

geoff998rugby wrote:

123456789 wrote:On Richie Gray I think he left Glasgow too early for the wrong club and is almost having to  start from scratch but he is the most talented of all the locks on the list except maybe his brother and hopefully will have proven that by 2017/.

With due respect - that is something stated through such Scottish tinted glasses to be pointless.
They are good players but so are Launchbury and Lawes in England
so is Henderson in Ireland and all three of them will improve significantly in the years ahead.

How you can claim the Grays are more talented than them is beyond me.

Not pointless, Geoff. Just a hopeful opinion by a fan.

This thread is about taking a punt on whom we think will be the future Lions locks. All of the players that you mention will travel.

GeordieFalcon wrote:But the Republic of Ireland are not "British"

So Scotland would not be "British".

Well Ireland is on Ireland not Britain (the hint is in the name ) No really following the logic there.

But Northern Irleand is part of Britain. Ireland was until it broke away and became the Republic of ireland.

It is part of the United Kingdom, but NOT Britain.

Thus Scotland would cease to be part of Britain. Yes its on the island called Britain but not the collection called "Britain"

So it like Southern Ireland would be part of the United Kingdom, but not Britain.

British Isles - Scotland, England, Wales, N Ireland, ROI and all the little islands around us.

Great Britain - Wales, Scotland and England

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Strictly speaking the Northern Irish aren't really British either but it gets all stodgy in politics here as I'm sure it will do with the Scots who want to remain in Great Britain.

Sorry, struggling to follow. "Northern Ireland is part of Britain". But then "It is part of the United Kingdom, but NOT Britain"??

Britain doesn't exist other than as a geographical landmass (I think, covering my back). It's not a nation or a country. The fact British can and is used to refer to someone from the UK doesn't make Britain the same as the UK.

Britain or Great Britain is a political creation.

Great Britain is the collection of England, Scotland, Wales and i thought Northern Ireland aswell. But No 7 may have corrected me ...i will check.

The land mass is not the important aspect. That was my thoughts anyway...but i will check. And if im wrong ill hold my hand up and apologise  

Really, everyone?

It's been a while since school Geordie but it's definitely the United Kingdom or Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We got away with team GB in the Olympics so lets just go back to the British Lions as long as I don't have to explain it to Keith Wood.

Yeah i think your right....its in the United Kingdom but not Britain. So Scotland will be in the UK but not Britiain....yeah?? or no?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah i think your right....its in the United Kingdom but not Britain. So Scotland will be in the UK but not Britiain....yeah?? or no?

No, Scotland are voting on leaving the UK. They'll still be on Britain. IN Britain doesn't really make sense (to me).

They'll be on the British Isles, if you consider that British then there you go. I wouldn't.

Its quite simple post Independance:

Scotland will be in Britain but not British
Northern Ireland is not in Britain but is British

What could be simpler
  

ha ha ha spot on Geoff   

Hammer, Britain is a political entity...dont think of it as the geographical landmass in this case...

geoff998rugby wrote:

123456789 wrote:On Richie Gray I think he left Glasgow too early for the wrong club and is almost having to  start from scratch but he is the most talented of all the locks on the list except maybe his brother and hopefully will have proven that by 2017/.

With due respect - that is something stated through such Scottish tinted glasses to be pointless.
They are good players but so are Launchbury and Lawes in England
so is Henderson in Ireland and all three of them will improve significantly in the years ahead.

How you can claim the Grays are more talented than them is beyond me.

I am not sure Ritchie is - but Jonny perhaps is and probably will be in 3 years.  Only 20, makes huge numbers of tackles per game missing only 2 all season, carries a lot as well.  Outstanding player and pretty much the equal of lawes and launchbury while being significantly younger.  If he develops in the way we would expect he really will be one of the very best ever I believe.  Have you seen him play?  20 tackles non missed in the pro 12 final IIRC as well as significant numbers of carries for good yards.  Very fast, good hands and hugely powerful. Mind you Lawes has really come good this season

The british isles are a geographical entity. Britain a political entity is simply the mainland excluding the island of ireland, the isle of man, the channel islands etc. Its actually the united kingdom and irish lions if we wanted to be pedantic.

TJ wrote:The british isles are a geographical entity.  Britain a political entity is simply the mainland excluding the island of ireland, the isle of man, the channel islands etc.  

That sound's pretty geographical to me.

Anyone able to point to anything real that defines Britain as a political entity rather than a geographical one? Had a quick look myself and can't see anything.

You've had it explained enough!

What people saying "it's a political entity"? That's not explaining it. I've just asked for something that says it's a political thing rather than a geographical thing (which everything I've seen says it is). If it's so clear it shouldn't take long. If people can't be arsed that's fine but I'll continue to act as though it's a geographical thing.

You do that!

TJ wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

123456789 wrote:On Richie Gray I think he left Glasgow too early for the wrong club and is almost having to  start from scratch but he is the most talented of all the locks on the list except maybe his brother and hopefully will have proven that by 2017/.

With due respect - that is something stated through such Scottish tinted glasses to be pointless.
They are good players but so are Launchbury and Lawes in England
so is Henderson in Ireland and all three of them will improve significantly in the years ahead.

How you can claim the Grays are more talented than them is beyond me.

I am not sure Ritchie is - but Jonny perhaps is and probably will be in 3 years.  Only 20, makes huge numbers of tackles per game missing only 2 all season, carries a lot as well.  Outstanding player and pretty much the equal of lawes and launchbury while being significantly younger.  If he develops in the way we would expect he really will be one of the very best ever I believe.  Have you seen him play?  20 tackles non missed in the pro 12 final IIRC as well as significant numbers of carries for good yards.  Very fast, good hands and hugely powerful.  Mind you Lawes has really come good this season

Launchbury played rubbish against abs , highly over rated imho. good not great. Lawes a better all round player imho

Sure Jony is a great prospect but so is Henderson and the English lads are doing it at a higher level.

Not saying the Grays aren't good but I am saying it is way too early to claim they are better than the alternatives - particularly Lawes and Henderson who are both outstanding prospects as well

geoff998rugby wrote:Sure Jony is a great prospect but so is Henderson and the English lads are doing it at a higher level.

Not saying the Grays aren't good but I am saying it is way too early to claim they are better than the alternatives - particularly Lawes and Henderson who are both outstanding prospects as well

Ah, here now, Geoff - of course it's too early, but we can dream.

Lawes and J. Gray actually followed very similar trajectories - both fully capped at 20.

Imagine a second row of Launchbury (6'6", 18st 6lbs) and Jonny Gray (6'7", 18st, 10lbs). Now that's what I'm talking about.

alive555 wrote:

TJ wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

123456789 wrote:On Richie Gray I think he left Glasgow too early for the wrong club and is almost having to  start from scratch but he is the most talented of all the locks on the list except maybe his brother and hopefully will have proven that by 2017/.

With due respect - that is something stated through such Scottish tinted glasses to be pointless.
They are good players but so are Launchbury and Lawes in England
so is Henderson in Ireland and all three of them will improve significantly in the years ahead.

How you can claim the Grays are more talented than them is beyond me.

I am not sure Ritchie is - but Jonny perhaps is and probably will be in 3 years.  Only 20, makes huge numbers of tackles per game missing only 2 all season, carries a lot as well.  Outstanding player and pretty much the equal of lawes and launchbury while being significantly younger.  If he develops in the way we would expect he really will be one of the very best ever I believe.  Have you seen him play?  20 tackles non missed in the pro 12 final IIRC as well as significant numbers of carries for good yards.  Very fast, good hands and hugely powerful.  Mind you Lawes has really come good this season

Launchbury played rubbish against abs , highly over rated imho. good not great. Lawes a better all round player  imho

I would say Launchbury is the better 'alround' player. He's been outstanding since he came into the England set up...i think we can forgive him a slightly below top class performance at the end of a long season against the AB's??
Lawes has his areas that he's outstanding in...thats why they work so well together.

Highly over rated? Not sure on that point mind.

I've got to say I think Launchbury has been 'over-rated'. Still very good and consistent but when he gets knocked back in the tackle and things like that it get's ignored because there is a positive feeling around him. If that happened to others they would be slated. He's certainly good enough to retain the starting shirt but I haven't anything more than very good solid displays.

NB I'm a natural pessimist. Calling someone very good seems to match other people's World Class. It's just a difference in scale. I've certainly not seen anything off the other names mentioned that outstrips him.

 

George Carlin wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Sure Jony is a great prospect but so is Henderson and the English lads are doing it at a higher level.

Not saying the Grays aren't good but I am saying it is way too early to claim they are better than the alternatives - particularly Lawes and Henderson who are both outstanding prospects as well

Ah, here now, Geoff - of course it's too early, but we can dream.

Lawes and J. Gray actually followed very similar trajectories - both fully capped at 20.

Imagine a second row of Launchbury (6'6", 18st 6lbs) and Jonny Gray (6'7", 18st, 10lbs). Now that's what I'm talking about.

Exactly a second row of shortar$es, put Big Dev in there, then there is a properly secure lineout option.

HammerofThunor wrote:I've got to say I think Launchbury has been 'over-rated'. Still very good and consistent but when he gets knocked back in the tackle and things like that it get's ignored because there is a positive feeling around him. If that happened to others they would be slated. He's certainly good enough to retain the starting shirt but I haven't anything more than very good solid displays.

NB I'm a natural pessimist. Calling someone very good seems to match other people's World Class. It's just a difference in scale. I've certainly not seen anything off the other names mentioned that outstrips him.

I think his carrying is something that will improve with time. He's only just turned 23 and is still definitely developing physically. He certainly got some more weight to add to his frame.

I agree about him being knocked back in the tackle though. Against NZ he certainly didn't chose wisely running into Owen Franks (who is ridiculously strong), and Dane Coles. Choose your battles Joe!

I think he'll be a monster when he fills out and I prefer them taking the time for the bulk to be added more naturally when his frame is ready. Similar to what happened with Lawes (only 25) as he seems to have added a lot of bult in recent years.

Im not sure i want Launchbury to bulk up too much if he is already 18+ stone.

His game is like an extra flanker, constant movement and athleticsim. I would hope that adding on too much extra bulk would restrict that gamestyle.

Of course it might not...  

Lawes on the other hand needed that bit extra bulk, as he was too athletic in build and he needed some muscle on his bones to cope with his confrontational collision style..ie his big hits etc.