Lions Lock of Future

Who do you think will be the next lions locks ?  i excl oconnell and others for being over the hill. Sorry Paul  

only vote for 2 please   

I think this is a difficult one. Theres some rediculously talented players coming through.

Just in Englands stable we have Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood, Slater...with Barrow and Stooke and Kruis all coming through. Its frightening.

The look at the Grays in Scotland. Id like to see Ritchie really work on his lineout. Become the scottish lineout king. What a player he would be...and his younger brother Johnny is another huge fella.

Players like Wynn Jones wont be there next time round.

Then you have the Irish lads. Devon Toner is huge cracking player.

Its going to be some competition for the places!

EDIT: I do think that if Courtney Lawes continues to improve his lineout ability aswell as keeping up his physicality and work around the park he will be difficult not to pick.

It's the All Blacks next up. Any lock who appears on the winning side against them will improve his chances. A good showing against South Africa will also stand players in good stead.

Realistically, even the next World Cup will be far too early to say who might get the nod. England made the 2007 final but didn't contribute many key players to the 2009 Lions tour. Wales made it to the semi final in 2011 but it was their subsequent Six Nations campaigns which saw them make up the bulk of the squad.

A bit early for this type of poll. There are still 3x6N, 3xAIs, 2x summer tours and the RWC to play.

Launchbury was widely tipped to go last year, then 'Cardiff' happened.

Much will depend on who gets the coaching gig and how significantly they view the 2017 6N in terms of selection.

Too much can happen to call.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think this is a difficult one. Theres some rediculously talented players coming through.

Just in Englands stable we have Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood, Slater...with Barrow and Stooke and Kruis all coming through. Its frightening.

The look at the Grays in Scotland. Id like to see Ritchie really work on his lineout. Become the scottish lineout king. What a player he would be...and his younger brother Johnny is another huge fella.

Players like Wynn Jones wont be there next time round.

Then you have the Irish lads. Devon Toner is huge cracking player.

Its going to be some competition for the places!

EDIT: I do think that if Courtney Lawes continues to improve his lineout ability aswell as keeping up his physicality and work around the park he will be difficult not to pick.

Probably right - but he's only 28. There is a lot of young second row talent and it shouldn't be our problem position 3 years form now.

Hopefully, the Lions will be a thing of the past by the time the next one is due...

Yeah probably a more biased thought Offload...im not nor never have been his biggest fan.

But i still think all nations have better players now and coming through.

Units will be very important in all lions tours.

A Launchbery/Lawes combination though could become the next Bakkies & Matfield 2.0, it has that potential.

I think the Etzebeth/van der Merwe combo may say something about that but both are very very strong.

Jimpy wrote:Hopefully, the Lions will be a thing of the past by the time the next one is due...

Why?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Hopefully, the Lions will be a thing of the past by the time the next one is due...

Why?

Just think its had its day in the professional era.

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:Hopefully, the Lions will be a thing of the past by the time the next one is due...

Why?

Just think its had its day in the professional era.

I was starting to think like that, but the 2009 tour completely turned me back. The highs, lows, and ferocity of the final test just completely reinvigorated the entire concept for me.

Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

i agree 2009 turned it around. the 2nd test was one of the best test matches in modern history. The atmosphere was fierce, more fierce than I've ever seen in a rugby match.

Other games such as NZ vs. SA in 2013 and FRA vs. SA in 2005 were perhaps better matches from a rugby perspective but I've never seen such a almighty clash as the 2nd test in 09.

After that second test in 09 I think it took me a week to recover. I felt like I had played. Twas brilliant and soul destroying in equal messures

Too far out for me as well. Based on this seasons 6N and club form I would say Launchbury & Lawes but current form plays such a big factor in selecting Lions tours that both in theory won't even be in the mix by 2017. I really rate Ian Henderson at Ulster and think he could be a world force in a year or two (especially as he fills out a little). Thought his performance against Leinster was excellent.

Looking at who is already available and also coming through the second row in 2017 could be as competitive as the back row was in 2013.

If its gatland then the welsh locks at that time, if its anyone else then lawes and lunchbox have a very good shout against a mobile kiwi team.

I'm not too sure about 2017 as it's too far out, but the 2021 locks will definitely be Iain Henderson and Jonny Gray. 

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think this is a difficult one. Theres some rediculously talented players coming through.

Just in Englands stable we have Lawes, Launchbury, Attwood, Slater...with Barrow and Stooke and Kruis all coming through. Its frightening.

The look at the Grays in Scotland. Id like to see Ritchie really work on his lineout. Become the scottish lineout king. What a player he would be...and his younger brother Johnny is another huge fella.

Players like Wynn Jones wont be there next time round.

Then you have the Irish lads. Devon Toner is huge cracking player.

Its going to be some competition for the places!

EDIT: I do think that if Courtney Lawes continues to improve his lineout ability aswell as keeping up his physicality and work around the park he will be difficult not to pick.

Why wont AWJ be there next time, POC was 33 last tour Jones will be 31. Not saying he will be but age shouldn't come into it.

sirtidychris wrote:If its gatland then the welsh locks at that time, if its anyone else then lawes and lunchbox have a very good shout against a mobile kiwi team.

I seem to remember an Ebglish lock in the shape of Parling playing last time under Gatland so your points a bit invalid.

If course it is too early.  However Jonny Gray is turning out to be an awesome player  he is only 20, already better than his brother I would say.  By the next lions he will have the experience as well. I think only missed one tackle all season

Gray and Lawes for me

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

Why wont AWJ be there next time, POC was 33 last tour Jones will be 31. Not saying he will be but age shouldn't come into it..

Because theres FAR better players available now, not to mention in a couple of years.
And Wyn Jones is not even in the same league as POC.

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Maro Itoje    

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Misty-eyed fans? What a load of rubbish. What gives you the right to call someone that when we could easily as argue that you're the misty-eyed fan for not seeing how the professional game is evolving? Stop being all sanctimonious just because you prefer the amateur days of rugby.

I agree that players often return to their clubs tired and worn-down after a Lions tour- it is a lot of rugby for one year. But I'm sure if you asked the players themselves they'd argue that being called up for a Lions series is one of the greatest accolades in British and Irish rugby, because of the heritage and history of it. Not until it loses support from the players and a majority of rugby fans should the Lions tours be considered for tossing out.

With the congested schedule you are always going to have a tug of war - club vs country/Lions commitment.

Most casual sports fans couldn't given a damn about the HC but the Lions......

The Lions still attracts a lot of support. It is not ideal in a congested schedule - agreed Jimpy but it is still something that many people appreciate fondly.

Plus it gives the 4 nations an opportunity to unite every 4 years instead of bickering.

beshocked wrote:With the congested schedule you are always going to have a tug of war - club vs country/Lions commitment.

Most casual sports fans couldn't given a damn about the HC but the Lions......

The Lions still attracts a lot of support. It is not ideal in a congested schedule - agreed Jimpy but it is still something that many people appreciate fondly.

Plus it gives the 4 nations an opportunity to unite every 4 years instead of bickering.

Did you miss the polite debate about BOD/Gatland/JD2 then   

Well I didn't join in that. Too busy having to defend Mako Vunipola!  

beshocked wrote:Maro Itoje    

I'll drink to that!   

beshocked wrote:Maro Itoje    

   

Ha ha good minds Cumbrian....

But then we could see Mario and raise it to Dom Barrow...

BamBam wrote:

beshocked wrote:With the congested schedule you are always going to have a tug of war - club vs country/Lions commitment.

Most casual sports fans couldn't given a damn about the HC but the Lions......

The Lions still attracts a lot of support. It is not ideal in a congested schedule - agreed Jimpy but it is still something that many people appreciate fondly.

Plus it gives the 4 nations an opportunity to unite every 4 years instead of bickering.

Did you miss the polite debate about BOD/Gatland/JD2 then   

Lucky enough to have gone to Oz last year and in all honesty the BOD gate was all taken in good spirits and was banter. To be totally honest it was, unfortunately for me some of my fellow Welsh fans that were small minded.

In Sydney after the last test we were in a bar and there was a great mixture of fans from all four Countries and we were all joining in singing each others songs but there was a group of Welsh fans who insisted in only sing Welsh songs and refused to sing others, very sad for me.

As for the tours in general long may they continue and when you witnessed the crowds in Sydney it was very good commercially for them.

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Misty-eyed fans? What a load of rubbish. What gives you the right to call someone that when we could easily as argue that you're the misty-eyed fan for not seeing how the professional game is evolving? Stop being all sanctimonious just because you prefer the amateur days of rugby.

I agree that players often return to their clubs tired and worn-down after a Lions tour- it is a lot of rugby for one year. But I'm sure if you asked the players themselves they'd argue that being called up for a Lions series is one of the greatest accolades in British and Irish rugby, because of the heritage and history of it. Not until it loses support from the players and a majority of rugby fans should the Lions tours be considered for tossing out.

 
PMSL touched a nerve have I?
 
Calm down sonny, you'll give yourself a conniption fit.

I have every right to call someone that, its an opinion, i'm not being sanctimonious (is that the pot calling the kettle black or what?) - and, btw, get off your high horse and get your facts right before spouting off - I'm the one advocating a change in light of the proffesional era, not hanging on to the amateur past - as, ironically, it seems you are.

Professionally speaking it still makes shed loads of cash so it's here to stay at the moment.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Ha ha good minds Cumbrian....

But then we could see Mario and raise it to Dom Barrow...

Indeed we could, lock is such a strong position across the board right now.   There is going to be some fierce competition and I'm pleased England are up there with the best.

Indeed marra...a far cry from a few years back   

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Misty-eyed fans? What a load of rubbish. What gives you the right to call someone that when we could easily as argue that you're the misty-eyed fan for not seeing how the professional game is evolving? Stop being all sanctimonious just because you prefer the amateur days of rugby.

I agree that players often return to their clubs tired and worn-down after a Lions tour- it is a lot of rugby for one year. But I'm sure if you asked the players themselves they'd argue that being called up for a Lions series is one of the greatest accolades in British and Irish rugby, because of the heritage and history of it. Not until it loses support from the players and a majority of rugby fans should the Lions tours be considered for tossing out.

 
PMSL touched a nerve have I?
 
Calm down sonny, you'll give yourself a conniption fit.

I have every right to call someone that, its an opinion, i'm not being sanctimonious (is that the pot calling the kettle black or what?) - and, btw, get off your high horse and get your facts right before spouting off - I'm the one advocating a change in light of the proffesional era, not hanging on to the amateur past - as, ironically, it seems you are.

No nerve touched whatsoever. I just don't appreciate being called 'misty-eyed' for liking the Lions tour. That's all.

Regarding the conniption fit. If you could send me the name of the medication you undoubtedly have to use when the Lions tour is on, that would be much appreciated.  

 

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Misty-eyed fans? What a load of rubbish. What gives you the right to call someone that when we could easily as argue that you're the misty-eyed fan for not seeing how the professional game is evolving? Stop being all sanctimonious just because you prefer the amateur days of rugby.

I agree that players often return to their clubs tired and worn-down after a Lions tour- it is a lot of rugby for one year. But I'm sure if you asked the players themselves they'd argue that being called up for a Lions series is one of the greatest accolades in British and Irish rugby, because of the heritage and history of it. Not until it loses support from the players and a majority of rugby fans should the Lions tours be considered for tossing out.

 
PMSL touched a nerve have I?
 
Calm down sonny, you'll give yourself a conniption fit.

I have every right to call someone that, its an opinion, i'm not being sanctimonious (is that the pot calling the kettle black or what?) - and, btw, get off your high horse and get your facts right before spouting off - I'm the one advocating a change in light of the proffesional era, not hanging on to the amateur past - as, ironically, it seems you are.

No nerve touched whatsoever. I just don't appreciate being called 'misty-eyed' for liking the Lions tour. That's all.

Regarding the conniption fit. If you could send me the name of the medication you undoubtedly have to use when the Lions tour is on, that would be much appreciated.  

 

If the cap fits....

I don't use medication, i just don't watch it, very simple really. Doesn't mean I don't have perfectly valid opinions on its appropriation, without getting all excited and in a tiz just because others appear to find it entertaining. Go figure.

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:Jimpy

Have you toured? If not you should, if you do you'll be converted. I agree it seems somewhat misplaced in pro rugby but it is the very best of rugby, a siege mentality develops amongst both fans and players. Long may it last and while it is a commercial success i think it will

I have toured and of course i enjoyed it. Which is why I expect the players look forward to being selected too.

The highs and the lows? ..... two series wins since 1997. Times have changed, it stretches already thin resources (club and country) thinner and it isn't the commercial success it may once have been. Personally, i'll be glad to see the back of it, and I genuinely do believe the B&I Lions' days are numbered.

The highs aren't just series wins. 2009 is a testament to that. Times may have changed for you, and therefore changed your opinion of it too, but it hasn't for a lot of other rugby fans.

You'll just have to keep suffering through it I'm afraid Jimpy!

 
Meh. It always seems like a good idea at the time, until key players return to their clubs or countries broken. Then the clubs/national teams suffer - and for what? An anachronistic test series conceived (and designed for) an amateur era. I can't help it if misty eyed fans are stuck in the past - hell, there are even posters on here who think we should go back to the good old days and have physical assault on the field, just to teach someone a lesson, you know.... thankfully, we're moving forward in that respect, and hopefully, the sport as a whole will too.

Misty-eyed fans? What a load of rubbish. What gives you the right to call someone that when we could easily as argue that you're the misty-eyed fan for not seeing how the professional game is evolving? Stop being all sanctimonious just because you prefer the amateur days of rugby.

I agree that players often return to their clubs tired and worn-down after a Lions tour- it is a lot of rugby for one year. But I'm sure if you asked the players themselves they'd argue that being called up for a Lions series is one of the greatest accolades in British and Irish rugby, because of the heritage and history of it. Not until it loses support from the players and a majority of rugby fans should the Lions tours be considered for tossing out.

 
PMSL touched a nerve have I?
 
Calm down sonny, you'll give yourself a conniption fit.

I have every right to call someone that, its an opinion, i'm not being sanctimonious (is that the pot calling the kettle black or what?) - and, btw, get off your high horse and get your facts right before spouting off - I'm the one advocating a change in light of the proffesional era, not hanging on to the amateur past - as, ironically, it seems you are.

No nerve touched whatsoever. I just don't appreciate being called 'misty-eyed' for liking the Lions tour. That's all.

Regarding the conniption fit. If you could send me the name of the medication you undoubtedly have to use when the Lions tour is on, that would be much appreciated.  

 

If the cap fits....

I don't use medication, i just don't watch it, very simple really. Doesn't mean I don't have perfectly valid opinions on its appropriation, without getting all excited and in a tiz just because others appear to find it entertaining. Go figure.

And similarly, watching it doesn't make you misty-eyed.

What a wonderful compromise we have reached.

Jimpy, if you dont like anything to do with the Lions tour...by bother to come on a thread about potential players and just ruin it?

Why not just not bother posting on it at all?

 

GeordieFalcon wrote:Jimpy, if you dont like anything to do with the Lions tour...by bother to come on a thread about potential players and just ruin it?

Why not just not bother posting on it at all?

I know, with hindsight, me posting my perfectly valid opinions on The Lions was just as bloody stupid as starting a discussion about potential future players three years in advance   

No, having a debate about potential second rows isnt stupid. Its a debating forum, about what nations are producing players and which senior players could still be there.

Its a pro Lions thread.

You have deliberately come on to a Pro Lions debate and offered an opinon that was not relevant nor wanted.

You then continue on by insinuating that the majority on this thread are Misty Eyed because we like the Lions idea.

Its like a Football hating person going on to a World Cup thread and saying I HATE FOOTBALL, and that every one who watches it is an a$£hole.

GeordieFalcon wrote:No, having a debate about potential second rows isnt stupid. Its a debating forum, about what nations are producing players and which senior players could still be there.

Its a pro Lions thread.

You have deliberately come on to a Pro Lions debate and offered an opinon that was not relevant nor wanted.

You then continue on by insinuating that the majority on this thread are Misty Eyed because we like the Lions idea.

Its like a Football hating person going on to a World Cup thread and saying I HATE FOOTBALL, and that every one who watches it is an a$£hole.

Well, three years in advance, I personally, think it is.

That's like - debate you know, or the basis for it at least. Debate is expression of opinion, is it not? I opine that The Lions is defunct in the current climate, which is a counter to the original question. Open for debate and all that. Perfectly valid.

But this is not a debate about whether the Lions should be kept or not...its a debate about possible / potential players for the next tour.

Hence YOUR opinion that its dated etc is not valid nor desired nor wanted.

If that was your opinon, then you should have started a new thread asking a for or against debate.

As for being stupid three years out. You may have a point...but its a little tester to see which young guns are starting to come through and which of the old guard are still flying. Not a pointless debate.

Is it likely to be an accurate debate as to the exact personnel on the tour...then no its probably not.

GeordieFalcon wrote:But this is not a debate about whether the Lions should be kept or not...its a debate about possible / potential players for the next tour.

Hence YOUR opinion that its dated etc is not valid nor desired nor wanted.

If that was your opinon, then you should have started a new thread asking a for or against debate.

As for being stupid three years out. You may have a point...but its a little tester to see which young guns are starting to come through and which of the old guard are still flying. Not a pointless debate.

Is it likely to be an accurate debate as to the exact personnel on the tour...then no its probably not.

 


But I think it is.

Perhaps you should start a new thread asking a for or against debate?

It's a valid point but doesn't contribute much to the debate there after as the likelihood is there will be a Lions tour to NZ.

Now that's true enough - however, it wasn't me that first, asked why I had such an opinion and, second, thereafter, got all emotional (some might say... misty eyed) when I expalined why...

Answering the original question asked in the spirit intended, I have gone for Launchbury and Lawes. I think the England game this year showed how far off the pace AWJ was and how the modern lock performs as an auxilliary flanker. In terms of size and mobility a lot of the locks on the list can more than match their New Zealand counterparts, they just need to set their skill levels high.
I see an aweful lot of people waxing lyrical about Jonny Gray and hope he lives up to expectations. I just remember similar things being said about Ritchie, which I don't think he has any where near lived up to. He is still a young man himself with plenty of time to improve, but it is frightening how many young second rows there are currently.