"Hating" England

First topic message reminder :

ok firstly, sorry for the title to any English fans, this is not intended to insult England at all (god knows there is too much of that on here anyway). Instead what I wanted to discuss is this whole obsession with other 6N teams hating England as shown in a recent leaked clip from the BBC (although meant in good humour).

This has again become headline news at the BBC with Nowell claiming that Wales hate England (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26443654 ) and I would really like to dispel this kind of thing. I have recently moved from north wales to Cardiff for university and I found it surprising and disappointing at how my English housemates and new rugby mates viewed the welsh in regards to them hating the English, some of them claiming that since moving to wales they now dislike the welsh rugby team, not because of the team itself (although like any team, there are a few man parts), but instead because of the fans. I have to say I find this opinion very upsetting especially as Wales fans were known for being immensely passionate fans, but not for hating other teams. What is more upsetting for me is the fact that it doesn't in large seem to be true welsh rugby fans but instead the bandwagon fans who think hating England is all part of it.

Yes there is a deep history between our two nations, which has stemmed a rivalry over hundreds of years, however rivalry in rugby terms is not about hate but respect, rugby is about how you give it your all for 80minutes on that pitch and you put your body on the line for your team, but hate should never come into it. I will admit as a youngster I used to dislike England, some of their players attitudes and their style of play, however I have always respected some of their players and their dedication to the sport such as moody, Wilkinson, Robinson etc, and now especially since Lancaster has taken over I have a huge amount of respect for him and his team, turning it round from a frankly disappointing and slightly humiliating world cup, to a core group of individuals who may not be the best in the world, but actually define what rugby is about, being a team! The players under Lancaster show a lot more humility than under Johnson and while some such as Ashton and Farell may appear cocky on the pitch, off the pitch they come across as very modest and respectful young men.

Anyway back to the topic of "hating" England, can I just say to all England fans, I remember hearing somewhere (it may a famous quote from a book, film etc whatever) that a person is judge not on the success of himself but on the success on his enemies, or something similar, and that for me sums up the feelings between us welsh, to you English. Ignoring the history between our countries (of which there is a huge amount and has a massive influence on our rivalry) but instead focussing on England's rugby history, first and so far only NH WC winners, biggest pool of players in the world and there many accolades, and for us, our small country of 3 million people plus all the sheep, to have a good record against our "big" brothers as it can be seen, is an immense achievement.

Anyway to English fans, pob lwc for sunday (although not enough to help you win!! ) and I hope the banter on here after can be less personal!

I always thought Wales and England was more or less the same thing anyway?

GunsGerms wrote:I always thought Wales and England was more or less the same thing anyway?

Very true, they are part of England anyway.   

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Nice write up and place in the UN for you.  I will remember history and keep on hating.

   

Classy comment Rainbow...sums you up.

Try not to confuse him with such complicated replies...

Sorry mate your right...its just a funny comment coming from a guy who loves his country so much he had to move to the other side of the world...know what i mean..   

Not all of us who live outside their native country do so out of a desire to leave that country. I have nothing but love for Aotearoa and am working on the wife to break down to her resistance to the idea of moving to the other side of the world away from her family and friends but it's not easy with earthquakes and severe flooding. Incidentally, my thoughts go out to the people of Christchurch who are affected by severe flooding - sadly for many those worst affected by the earthquake.

As for the OP, with communication the way it is nowadays, those who want to stir trouble have an abundance of choice to do so and it is impossible to drown their voices out. We all know the names of the people who do so on this forum but how many more actually voice an opinion that is reasonable, even though we might disagree with it? A great deal more but of course we tend to focus on those who rile us.

When NZ plays England I want to win but that is no different to any other country. There is always banter between my English friends and I but hate never comes into it. I hate losing but I'm usually more critical of my team when we win than when we lose.

I totally apreciate that Kia, but then you come across as a genuine guy. Rainbow on the other hand comes across as a complete and utter chump!

I'd be willing to gues that more New Zealanders would prefer to stay at home than Welshmen would. Aside from the orcs it's a pretty decent place to live. Whereas Wales  is just full of hate and bitterness   

I thought some NZ fans were pretty hostile on the Lions tour in 2005.

Found that the most sporting fans have been the French and Irish.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Nice write up and place in the UN for you.  I will remember history and keep on hating.

   

Classy comment Rainbow...sums you up.

Try not to confuse him with such complicated replies...

Sorry mate your right...its just a funny comment coming from a guy who loves his country so much he had to move to the other side of the world...know what i mean..   

Not all of us who live outside their native country do so out of a desire to leave that country. I have nothing but love for Aotearoa and am working on the wife to break down to her resistance to the idea of moving to the other side of the world away from her family and friends but it's not easy with earthquakes and severe flooding. Incidentally, my thoughts go out to the people of Christchurch who are affected by severe flooding - sadly for many those worst affected by the earthquake.

As for the OP, with communication the way it is nowadays, those who want to stir trouble have an abundance of choice to do so and it is impossible to drown their voices out. We all know the names of the people who do so on this forum but how many more actually voice an opinion that is reasonable, even though we might disagree with it? A great deal more but of course we tend to focus on those who rile us.

When NZ plays England I want to win but that is no different to any other country. There is always banter between my English friends and I but hate never comes into it. I hate losing but I'm usually more critical of my team when we win than when we lose.

I totally apreciate that Kia, but then you come across as a genuine guy. Rainbow on the other hand comes across as a complete and utter chump!

I moved for many reasons you chump (what a quaint word) you hahahaha Do you honestly think that I am less Welsh because I move to New Zealand?

I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:It depends what's on the hook, Subm.

Nah, I think your rod is broken.

Scrumpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I always thought Wales and England was more or less the same thing anyway?

Very true, they are part of England anyway.   

Im only joking but I assumed that given in reality they are part of the same state there wouldnt be such as rivalry.

rainbow-warrior wrote:I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

Which are what? I'm sorry to ask but they didn't teach Welsh (bitter) history in English schools when I went.

From my own perspective... those on the margins are always the most vocal about these such things.

Take Anglo-boere relations for instance.

If I speak to pure bred afrikaners, i.e. every grandparent etc is Afrikaans than these people are quite relaxed about their history and take a more balanced approach to the relationship.

Its those who have mixed heritage, both English and Afrikaans (but try and pass themselves off as Afrikaners) who are always the most anti-english in my experience. Its like they are trying to prove to themselves their loyalty.

I see it often in other walks of life and I'm sure that many of the anti anti people here may have a little bit too much anglo blood for their own liking. Just my opinion mind.

GunsGerms wrote:

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:Hartley says "England are targeting back row Taulupe (Toby to his friends and everyone else until he got upset and wanted to be known by his true name) Faletau, Hibbard and Dr Roberts as the Wales trio who must be stopped."

"We obviously look at talismen in other teams, I prefer to call them targets. That's not a joke," he said."    

"You respect them because they provide a lot of momentum, but if you make them a target, it changes that."


Looks like Mr Hartley is going to play dirty.

Sounds to me that Mr Hartley has his head screwed on.

If he intends to play dirty, he'll get sent off.

But one of the key match-ups will be between him and Hibbard.
Looking forward to it...

He is just talking nonsense. He was fairly quiet v Ireland in terms of handbags. Brown, Lawes and Farrell are the hot heads at the moment.

Are you just plucking names out of the air now GG...give me an example of them being hotheads?

Come on Geordie, the whole world witnessed Brown squaring up to BOD in the Ireland v England game. Lawes has a history of niggle, obviously not as bad as Hartley but from the current England team those are the guys you might expect some handbags from.

Scrumpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

Which are what? I'm sorry to ask but they didn't teach Welsh (bitter) history in English schools when I went.

It would be pretty difficult to hate England (or anyone/anything else) for future reasons so saying you hate something for historical reasons is totally meaningless. It could be something that happened thousands of years ago or something that happened yesterday.

It doesn't bother me if other nations hate England. Let's be honest, if England was split into North and South you would probably end up with the North hating the South soon enough because they stole all our jobs/closed down our pits/ruined the country (bankers)/have an arrogant attitude towards us etc etc.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Nice write up and place in the UN for you.  I will remember history and keep on hating.

   

Classy comment Rainbow...sums you up.

Try not to confuse him with such complicated replies...

Sorry mate your right...its just a funny comment coming from a guy who loves his country so much he had to move to the other side of the world...know what i mean..   

Not all of us who live outside their native country do so out of a desire to leave that country. I have nothing but love for Aotearoa and am working on the wife to break down to her resistance to the idea of moving to the other side of the world away from her family and friends but it's not easy with earthquakes and severe flooding. Incidentally, my thoughts go out to the people of Christchurch who are affected by severe flooding - sadly for many those worst affected by the earthquake.

As for the OP, with communication the way it is nowadays, those who want to stir trouble have an abundance of choice to do so and it is impossible to drown their voices out. We all know the names of the people who do so on this forum but how many more actually voice an opinion that is reasonable, even though we might disagree with it? A great deal more but of course we tend to focus on those who rile us.

When NZ plays England I want to win but that is no different to any other country. There is always banter between my English friends and I but hate never comes into it. I hate losing but I'm usually more critical of my team when we win than when we lose.

I totally apreciate that Kia, but then you come across as a genuine guy. Rainbow on the other hand comes across as a complete and utter chump!

I moved for many reasons you chump (what a quaint word) you hahahaha  Do you honestly think that I am less Welsh because I move to New Zealand?  

I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

I labled you a chump because on this site you are unable to have a genuine intelligent debate. You are aggressive, over opinionated and reluctant to listen to anything other than what you think regardless of facts.

Please can you now tell me what historical reasons and events have affected you to create such a hatred for England? Or is it just that you were born on the wrong side of the border?

    

Well said Geordie

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Nice write up and place in the UN for you.  I will remember history and keep on hating.

   

Classy comment Rainbow...sums you up.

Try not to confuse him with such complicated replies...

Sorry mate your right...its just a funny comment coming from a guy who loves his country so much he had to move to the other side of the world...know what i mean..   

Not all of us who live outside their native country do so out of a desire to leave that country. I have nothing but love for Aotearoa and am working on the wife to break down to her resistance to the idea of moving to the other side of the world away from her family and friends but it's not easy with earthquakes and severe flooding. Incidentally, my thoughts go out to the people of Christchurch who are affected by severe flooding - sadly for many those worst affected by the earthquake.

As for the OP, with communication the way it is nowadays, those who want to stir trouble have an abundance of choice to do so and it is impossible to drown their voices out. We all know the names of the people who do so on this forum but how many more actually voice an opinion that is reasonable, even though we might disagree with it? A great deal more but of course we tend to focus on those who rile us.

When NZ plays England I want to win but that is no different to any other country. There is always banter between my English friends and I but hate never comes into it. I hate losing but I'm usually more critical of my team when we win than when we lose.

I totally apreciate that Kia, but then you come across as a genuine guy. Rainbow on the other hand comes across as a complete and utter chump!

I moved for many reasons you chump (what a quaint word) you hahahaha  Do you honestly think that I am less Welsh because I move to New Zealand?  

I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

Genuine question here. I seem to recall you saying you were in the armed forces. How do you reconcile pledging allegiance to the queen if you hate England?

Oh here we go again.

GunsGerms wrote:Come on Geordie, the whole world witnessed Brown squaring up to BOD in the Ireland v England game. Lawes has a history of niggle, obviously not as bad as Hartley but from the current England team those are the guys you might expect some handbags from.

Squarring up? BOD is an experienced intelligent guy who knows how to wind up the opposition. He may be a great of the game but that doesnt mean Brown cant stand up to him. Brown did absolutely nothing wrong there in my eyes...he didnt throw a punch or do anything over malicious.

Lawes has a history yes...but has not put a foot out of place in the AI's or this 6n.

Besides i want my players to have a bit of niggle as long as it doesnt cross the line. O'Connell etc are all well versed in that...

Very well said Welshy, my thoughts on the matter are the exact same .

GunsGerms you call Farrell,Brown etc hot heads but I don't remember them stamping on people.  

Ireland are well versed in the choke tackle too.

I wouldn't say any team is whiter than white.

Scrumpy wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:I hate england for historical reasons and for nothing more.

Which are what? I'm sorry to ask but they didn't teach Welsh (bitter) history in English schools when I went.

One thing I did learn in school mind... during the industrial revolution as many as half a million people from England emigrated to Wales to work in the mines, the shipyards etc.... so given the population is today even what 3MM people (???) allowing for natural growth of the times, a significant proportion of those will be English if you go back no more than 200 years... no matter if they say their name is Williams, Jones or Jenkins.

Also. don't let language fool you, my boy's first language Afrikaans (even though his papa is from the UK).... just like George North is a Welsh speaker himself (Born in England to an English father).

Assuming that these "English on Welsh atrocities" occurred before the 1800s, if people are suggesting English people today should bare a collective responsibility for their ancestors conduct then in all probability, those in Wales are as much responsible for the actions as those living in England.

Oh come on guys, get a grip. The truth is no-one really cares. It's all a little too pantomime-villain camp. Save it for the footie terraces.

Tramptastic wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:As an Englishman I have visited all of the Six Nations grounds. Mostly I have experienced good natured banter on all sides.  The only ground where a substantial minority move beyond that into nationalistic bigotry is Murrayfield.  It is certainly the only ground where the pre match 'entertainment' (i.e. The Braveheart nonsense) has the feel of being not just pro the home team but anti English.
At any club I belonged to the object was to make your visitors welcome and to make new friends. The SRU seem to have lost that.

Listen to the Anthem...

It's a difficult one like, as a Scot I don't see the Braveheart nonsense as being typically anti-English, it all stems from our culture of throwing off the shackles of an oppressor (be it Roman, Viking or English) and being free - subsequently getting drunk, losing all our money in the Americas and joining England as a hungover mess pleading for a way out - The fact of the matter is the anthem does not mention the English, It mentions Edward, who happened to be English, and sending him away tae think about what a stupid boy he was. The song could have been about any one of innumerable invaders but as it happened the English were the ones who came the closest to beating us. It could have been anyone in history but it happened to be the English. The point is it wouldn't of mattered who it was, we still would have sung about it!

Is it Braveheart stuff like what actually happened or Braveheart like the film that peed all over history whilst simultaneously being awful? Because celebrating brave but eventually inevitable defeat isn't necessarily the way to go... Kind of like us using the battle of Hastings as a boost against the French...

Absolutely Barney, they should get over it!  

We have.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Come on Geordie, the whole world witnessed Brown squaring up to BOD in the Ireland v England game. Lawes has a history of niggle, obviously not as bad as Hartley but from the current England team those are the guys you might expect some handbags from.

Squarring up? BOD is an experienced intelligent guy who knows how to wind up the opposition. He may be a great of the game but that doesnt mean Brown cant stand up to him. Brown did absolutely nothing wrong there in my eyes...he didnt throw a punch or do anything over malicious.

Lawes has a history yes...but has not put a foot out of place in the AI's or this 6n.

Besides i want my players to have a bit of niggle as long as it doesnt cross the line. O'Connell etc are all well versed in that...

Geordie, you are getting carried away. I already mentioned on the England v Ireland thread how I liked how Brown squared up to BOD and showed he wasnt going to be pushed around. That said he was visably fuming over something and let himself get a little carried away. BOD just laughed it off. If you can have a bit of dog to your character without doing anything too petualant then thats a good thing. Brown seems to have added that to his game so its up to him not to get carried away and do something stupid.

Re Lawes and its because of Lawes history I singled him out rather than other England players. Whats the big deal?

Brown might get involved in handbags but not to the detriment of the team.


Amazed people have decided Marler isn't one of our hotheads...

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:As an Englishman I have visited all of the Six Nations grounds. Mostly I have experienced good natured banter on all sides.  The only ground where a substantial minority move beyond that into nationalistic bigotry is Murrayfield.  It is certainly the only ground where the pre match 'entertainment' (i.e. The Braveheart nonsense) has the feel of being not just pro the home team but anti English.
At any club I belonged to the object was to make your visitors welcome and to make new friends. The SRU seem to have lost that.

Listen to the Anthem...

It's a difficult one like, as a Scot I don't see the Braveheart nonsense as being typically anti-English, it all stems from our culture of throwing off the shackles of an oppressor (be it Roman, Viking or English) and being free - subsequently getting drunk, losing all our money in the Americas and joining England as a hungover mess pleading for a way out - The fact of the matter is the anthem does not mention the English, It mentions Edward, who happened to be English, and sending him away tae think about what a stupid boy he was. The song could have been about any one of innumerable invaders but as it happened the English were the ones who came the closest to beating us. It could have been anyone in history but it happened to be the English. The point is it wouldn't of mattered who it was, we still would have sung about it!

Is it Braveheart stuff like what actually happened or Braveheart like the film that peed all over history whilst simultaneously being awful? Because celebrating brave but eventually inevitable defeat isn't necessarily the way to go... Kind of like us using the battle of Hastings as a boost against the French...

"Now Im not saying he didnt sleep with the 4 year old...."

ChequeredJersey wrote:Brown might get involved in handbags but not to the detriment of the team.


Amazed people have decided Marler isn't one of our hotheads...

Marler can't get a hot head with that haircut!   

ChequeredJersey wrote:Brown might get involved in handbags but not to the detriment of the team.


Amazed people have decided Marler isn't one of our hotheads...

Quite right. The Scots have Braveheart, the Welsh have Phillips, but England have a whole host of aggressive tossers. So many heroes, no wonder the world loves us.

Decent thread with some decent postings. Shame the usual anti-welsh brigade had to hijack it. Nowell and Rowntree should probably keep their gobs shut for now anyway, as I don't see any of this helping their team.

Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

Time to move on fella!

That one is dragged out and dusted off year after year.

beshocked wrote:GunsGerms you call Farrell,Brown etc hot heads but I don't remember them stamping on people.  

Ireland are well versed in the choke tackle too.

I wouldn't say any team is whiter than white.

Oh dear. The choke tackle is legal. Im embarassed for you.

Healy stamped on Cole who was slowing down and preventing ball from being released in the ruck. I'd rather one of my players stamp on a guy not releasing the ball than one of the pointless petulant things Farrell seems to do almost every match now.

Its Healy's one and only career ban. He doesnt play for England anyway so not sure how this is relevant.

Lawes and niggle / hotheadedness. My view - he has realised this was a weakness of his, has learnt the Martin Johnson lesson, has curbed his temper and is a better player for it. He has had a very good season so far and appears to be becoming the player he was touted / promised to be. One of the best around in his position. I have no issues with him at all now. Becoming a great player

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

Well at least you can thank Thatcher for ending the English taking your coal and steel

Scrumpy wrote:

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

Time to move on fella!

That one is dragged out and dusted off year after year.

I know. Just felt like posting it for a laugh  

To be fair most of my northern English mates are cheering on Wales anyway due to the fact they say they cannot relate with the southern English well to do public school boy mentality that goes with the England rugby team

GunsGerms wrote:I always thought Wales and England was more or less the same thing anyway?

A few years ago I would have said that yes in theory they are similar but one side is trying very very hard to prove otherwise.

Having actually lived in Swansea for 7 years I would say that they succeeded

  

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:As an Englishman I have visited all of the Six Nations grounds. Mostly I have experienced good natured banter on all sides.  The only ground where a substantial minority move beyond that into nationalistic bigotry is Murrayfield.  It is certainly the only ground where the pre match 'entertainment' (i.e. The Braveheart nonsense) has the feel of being not just pro the home team but anti English.
At any club I belonged to the object was to make your visitors welcome and to make new friends. The SRU seem to have lost that.

Listen to the Anthem...

It's a difficult one like, as a Scot I don't see the Braveheart nonsense as being typically anti-English, it all stems from our culture of throwing off the shackles of an oppressor (be it Roman, Viking or English) and being free - subsequently getting drunk, losing all our money in the Americas and joining England as a hungover mess pleading for a way out - The fact of the matter is the anthem does not mention the English, It mentions Edward, who happened to be English, and sending him away tae think about what a stupid boy he was. The song could have been about any one of innumerable invaders but as it happened the English were the ones who came the closest to beating us. It could have been anyone in history but it happened to be the English. The point is it wouldn't of mattered who it was, we still would have sung about it!

Is it Braveheart stuff like what actually happened or Braveheart like the film that peed all over history whilst simultaneously being awful? Because celebrating brave but eventually inevitable defeat isn't necessarily the way to go... Kind of like us using the battle of Hastings as a boost against the French...

In an ideal world it would be what actually happened because the Braveheart film is terrible (no goddamn bridge?!?! everyone in kilts?!?! William Wallace was a nice guy who fell in love with a princess?!?!?! interesting fact, Wallace actually skinned one of the English lords (think it was the treasury guy put in charge of Scotland who overtaxed everyone) claiming everyone should claim a piece back for what he took from them... Pretty Brutal, wish THAT had been in the film! I suppose it's really about the "standing up for what's right and doing what you can". Self determination in the face of oblivion? inspiring others to carry on the fight (Bruce's turn out at Bannockburn).

I think it all comes down to typical English arrogance - you all assume we hate the English and spend most of our time shouting "FREEEDOM" in the hills. That's not true at all, in fact we spend most of our time starting fights with our neighbours about being catholic/protestant, we don't have time to hate the English, too much time spent hating ourselves

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:GunsGerms you call Farrell,Brown etc hot heads but I don't remember them stamping on people.  

Ireland are well versed in the choke tackle too.

I wouldn't say any team is whiter than white.

Oh dear. The choke tackle is legal. Im embarassed for you.

Healy stamped on Cole who was slowing down and preventing ball from being released in the ruck. Its Healy's one and only career ban. He doesnt play for England anyway so not sure how this is relevant.

Wasn't just referring to Healy, I was referring to BOD too.

Yes you are right about the choke tackle. Just pointing out that Ireland like to be physical and rough up opposition.

Steffan wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

Time to move on fella!

That one is dragged out and dusted off year after year.

I know. Just felt like posting it for a laugh  

To be fair most of my northern English mates are cheering on Wales anyway due to the fact they say they cannot relate with the southern English well to do public school boy mentality that goes with the England rugby team

Lies! Northern English people watch rugby league and as our tactic appears to be emulating a League team, they'd love it!

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

and now they pay most of your countrymen to live the following regime day in day out

Monday - gym then sunbed.
Tuesday - gym then sunbed.
Wednesday - gym then sunbed.
Thursday - pick up my cheque, gym then sunbed.
Friday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Saturday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Sunday - gym then sunbed.

then repeat

It always kinda makes me laugh a bit of how my southern English mates always harp on about how much they dislike Scotland, Wales and Ireland yet the only peopel my northern English mates seem to dislike is 'That posh rich bunch of nancy lot down south who suck up all of our money'

beshocked wrote:
Wasn't just referring to Healy, I was referring to BOD too.

Yes you are right about the choke tackle. Just pointing out that Ireland like to be physical and rough up opposition.

What about BOD? In 140 test caps he has amassed one 1 match ban? Wow, what a baddie.

Edit: sorry three weeks, but still.

I appear to have been called anti english and anti welsh on this thread - surely that means I am a neutral?

AS for the "england hating"

As an Englishman who grew up in Scotland inthe 70s ( and has a very english name and acccent) going to a school in a fairly rough area I have some insight into this from a perspective many do not have. In general there is some real bigoted hatred but its a tiny minority. More common is a dislike / envy / rivalry like a little brother has for his big brother. Its still not a huge issue.

On a rugby field the arrogance of the England camp around the turn of the century "we are too good for the 6N" and so on irritated a lot of folk and caused a lot of resentment against that England team - personified by Carling. This current England team is a different team and does not engender that same dislike and have earned their dues with a much more humble attitude.

So in summary a tiny % is true bigotry and to be condemned. Much is the rivalry a wee brother has for his big brother or the underdog has with the top dog. this is normal, healthy and only to be expected. How many england fans love watching the aussies get humped at cricket? its the same thing. Its also a psychological weapon used to rile the englisha nd to gee up the others. Its an inevitable consequence of a country of 50 million v counties of 2-6 million

fa0019 wrote:

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

and now they pay most of your countrymen to live the following regime day in day out

Monday - gym then sunbed.
Tuesday - gym then sunbed.
Wednesday - gym then sunbed.
Thursday - pick up my cheque, gym then sunbed.
Friday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Saturday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Sunday - gym then sunbed.

then repeat

Not that your applying a negative xenophobic stereotyping to the situation or anything...

The choke tackle is legal until you end up holding people around the neck and under the chin, which happens a lot, and then is should be a high tackle. Not been pinged yet for whatever reason.

Sorry people, lots being said on here, yet when i stick up for England in a decent debating manner im told to calm down and that im behaving like a pantomime villain?

fa0019 wrote:

Steffan wrote:Wales Captain Phil Bennett prior to the England game in 1977...

"Look what these bar stewards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon."

and now they pay most of your countrymen to live the following regime day in day out

Monday - gym then sunbed.
Tuesday - gym then sunbed.
Wednesday - gym then sunbed.
Thursday - pick up my cheque, gym then sunbed.
Friday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Saturday - gym then sunbed. Evening - coach into cardiff for a beer & a scrap.
Sunday - gym then sunbed.

then repeat

True for 50% of people. Can't see it being much different anywhere else in the UK though, except up in Scotland as those guys are ridiculously pale.

Of course, they know that London provides 20% of the whole UK's economy, and the City floats the rest of the UK because our resources are skill based not industrial, right?

Most of my hate is used up for unpleasant and stupid people wherever they come from but then I know too many people from most countries to actually hate people from those countries

Steffan wrote:To be fair most of my northern English mates are cheering on Wales anyway due to the fact they say they cannot relate with the southern English well to do public school boy mentality that goes with the England rugby team

Fair enough, but you might want to tell them to check out where some of the Welsh boys went to school! 

I think it all comes down to typical English arrogance - you all assume we hate the English and spend most of our time shouting "FREEEDOM" in the hills. That's not true at all, in fact we spend most of our time starting fights with our neighbours about being catholic/protestant, we don't have time to hate the English, too much time spent hating ourselves

Spent a lot of time in Glasgow and ill go along with that..Rangers v Celtic is just crazy at times.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Of course, they know that London provides 20% of the whole UK's economy, and the City floats the rest of the UK because our resources are skill based not industrial, right?

Yep. The shift towards a knowledge economy has meant a decline a Trade Unionism. I think Phil Bennet was a union member.