Can Broner Solve His Maidana Problem Second Time Round?

By Stephen Lynch.

Can Broner solve his Maidana problem the second time out?

Whatever one’s opinion on Adrien Broner – and there are plenty out there - it can’t be denied he’s got guts. Recently dethroned welterweight champion Broner has exercised his rematch clause to get Marcos Maidana back in the ring in summer 2014, following a one-sided upset loss to the Argentine power-puncher last month. 

“El Chino” stripped Broner of his unbeaten record, WBA strap and mystique in as convincing fashion imaginable for an underdog, beating his flashy opponent from pillar to post and dropping him twice en route to a wide decision win in San Antonio, Texas.

The Showtime-televised Golden Boy show, “DANGER ZONE”, was aptly prophetic for “The Problem” as he hurried out of the ring with a suspected broken jaw. And as the cups and bottles rained down on him in the Alamodome, there was no doubt he was leaving with his stature broken also, his air of invincibility shattered and meteoric rise through the divisions stopped and derailed off its tracks. The man poised to take up Floyd Mayweather’s flamboyant, trash-talking, dollar-flashing, PPV record-setting mantle was mortal after all.

Where would Broner go from here they asked. Back down to 140? When would we see him again? Could he recover from such a humbling and chastening defeat? He’d talked the talk but it was Maidana who walked the walk that night, walking through Broner as well as walking him down at that.

The news earlier in January that Adrien Broner would seek to avenge Maidana immediately has prompted discussion that the young American is taking a colossal risk with his career by not taking a path of lesser resistance back to the P4P summit. The conventional wisdom being that Broner’s lackadaisical and cocky attitude had cost him the first time around, added to distractions out of the ring and his potent punching power not carrying all the way to 147.

The perils of immediate rematches following decisive defeats has been shown by David Price’s capitulation to the unheralded but formidable Tony Thompson and let’s not forget Carl Froch’s slow deliberation over granting his young, dangerous rival George Groves a second crack of the whip in overthrowing him as a unified 168lb champion. Indeed Maidana himself acknowledged the irony of Amir Khan’s refusal to grant a rematch in their spectacularly competitive bout three years ago – with Khan now seemingly set to win the Mayweather sweepstakes – while the newly-crowned WBA champ is forced to rematch a fighter that was much more convincingly beaten than he that night at the Mandalay Bay in 2010. However what of Lamont Peterson voluntarily rematching Khan, Mayweather having the similar grace against José Luis Castillo or Tyson Fury going back to the well with John McDermott?

It’s a commonly held belief that the better man usually wins the second fight, after having made the necessary adjustments in training to alleviate weaknesses and negate their conquerors strongest weapons (see Lennox Lewis v Rahman, Holyfield and McCall). What we saw in San Antonio was the result of overreach and hubris from a charismatic, promising young star who previously was getting by on his talent alone. Now we will see if Adrien Broner has the discipline to go to with his guts and skills - and in reaction to his first loss - if he can plot and scheme a solution out of a Problem of his own making

http://v2journal.com/16/post/2014/01/can-broner-solve-his-maidana-problem-second-time-round.html

Broner did some good work in the first fight but he was always chasing the fight from the first round. Maidana looked good coming forward with aggression but still he is a very poor boxer. He was wide open for a Broner to land shots. A clever fighter handles him with ease.

Bit harsh onetwo.

He submitted ortiz, smashed lopez, gave khan fits all night, took broner apart.......all ok fighters with khan being very good technically....and quick.

Maidana has clearly improved his boxing and this version of Maidana puts Khan to sleep in 5 rounds. I dont say he is now the second coming of Willie Pep but he is not so easy to catch cleanly as before as seems to present a more compact target, when mixed with his crowding style he is not as open as he might look anymore. To answer the question he beats up Broner again in the rematch, mentally Broner will never be the same fighter again after a beating like that, but he is a game boy and will do enough to make it a decent scrap of it again.

Broner can't win on here..........He's flash so that counts against him for a start.......But he's tried to run before he can walk and I believe he is fighting at too higher weight...

Constantly hear how some fighters LACK ambition on here and yet when this guy falls trying to move up and win titles at higher weights too soon he gets mocked.......

I fancy Broner for the rematch If the first fight didn't take too much out of him.........A la Froch he lost his legs early........But unlike Froch he never got them back.......

Credit for him seeking a rematch he had other options......

Broner won't win the rematch. To my mind there isn't anything he can do to turn the tables -- he lost because he was too small (he's naturally the smaller man). Maidana just rolled over the top of him.

That isn't true............He's a better boxer than Maidana..........Talent wise Broner is heads above...

Why didn't Hagler roll Duran.........Or Leonard.........Or Louis roll Conn ??

Too simplistic..........Broner got caught early.......He never recovered....

He is a very talented fighter.........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:That isn't true............He's a better boxer than Maidana..........Talent wise Broner is heads above...

Why didn't Hagler roll Duran.........Or Leonard.........Or Louis roll Conn ??

Too simplistic..........Broner got caught early.......He never recovered....

He is a very talented fighter.........

He's flashy but stupid. He may ape Mayweather but he doesn't have Floyd's brains.

He may be a better boxer but Maidana made that irrelevant by getting stuck into him. Broner couldn't deal with his strength and power and he won't again. He showed guts hanging tough until the end but this wasn't a case of a lucky punch landing that affected the outcome. Maidana beat him up and bullied him.

Broner is also going to want to try and make a statement in this rematch which will be his undoing. If he boxes smart and utilises a lot of movement he'll beat Maidana but Broner won't want people to think he's scared and fight on the back foot (as mentioned above he's stupid and arrogant) and so he will try and put on a show. Maidana will get caught a few times and then do him again.

Broner got nailed early .......Mate..........

You remember Norris vs Brown............Could say the same about that fight.........But Norris took the pee out of him in the rematch..

Don't let how you feel about him and his types make you overlook the fact he has talent and the fact he lost his legs early a la Norris.

Don't be so quick to write good fighters off after they lose..........one fight.

He's got talent...so has Khan but they also have inherent personality traits which means they fail to box in the way that they should because ego gets the better of them.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Broner got nailed early .......Mate..........

You remember Norris vs Brown............Could say the same about that fight.........But Norris took the pee out of him in the rematch..

Don't let how you feel about him and his types make you overlook the fact he has talent and the fact he lost his legs early a la Norris.

Don't be so quick to write good fighters off after they lose..........one fight.

I'm not writing anyone off. Broner has talent, but he's not a welterweight. Maidana isn't even a fully fledged welter and it looked like a pitbull playing with a rag doll at times. Broner should drop down to 140.

This is more like Mosley vs Wright. No matter what Mosley tried in the rematch he couldn't budge Winky. I don't see any similarities to Norris vs Brown at all.

DAVE667 wrote:Broner is also going to want to try and make a statement in this rematch which will be his undoing. If he boxes smart and utilises a lot of movement he'll beat Maidana but Broner won't want people to think he's scared and fight on the back foot (as mentioned above he's stupid and arrogant) and so he will try and put on a show. Maidana will get caught a few times and then do him again.

Broner tried to box after being floored but couldn't get Maidana's respect. The Argentinean just walked right through him and will do again.

Broner needs to up his work rate both offensively and defensively if he's to beat Maidana. He has this tendency to stand in front of his opponents thinking he can just roll all the punches. He clearly can't. He also has a low punch output.

Yes, hes talented. He has good timing, he's very accurate, good reflexes, etc. But, it's completely unfair to Maidana to say 'oh he caught Broner early and Broner never recovered'. He caught him because Broner has a style that isn't well suited to pressure/volume punchers like Maidana. Broner used to get away with all this when he fought smaller opponents who couldn't hurt him. Now, he's found out the hard way that you can't (at least he can't) stand too stationary and expect to pot shot as he wants.

No because he lost his legs...........Norris was impotent after Brown.........will you be told....

If the legs are gone you have no power.......Froch only recovered after three rounds and he was lucky..

Now Broner is a highly thought of modern fighter so I know what you are doing......

It was hardly Duran-Hearns was it ?? Where a 5ft 7 inch wally tries to outbox a 6 footer with the best jab in the sport from the outside and gets hammered.........

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No because he lost his legs...........Norris was impotent after Brown.........will you be told....If the legs are gone you have no power.......Froch only recovered after three rounds and he was lucky..

Now Broner is a highly thought of modern fighter so I know what you are doing......

It was hardly Duran-Hearns was it ?? Where a 5ft 7 inch wally tries to outbox a 6 footer with the best jab in the sport from the outside and gets hammered.........

Can't criticise STRONGBACK for being an arrogant git who tells people what to think...then go do the same thing yourself without being left open to some backlash TRUSS. What happened to "all opinions welcome"?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No because he lost his legs...........Norris was impotent after Brown.........will you be told....

If the legs are gone you have no power.......Froch only recovered after three rounds and he was lucky..

Now Broner is a highly thought of modern fighter so I know what you are doing......

It was hardly Duran-Hearns was it ?? Where a 5ft 7 inch wally tries to outbox a 6 footer with the best jab in the sport from the outside and gets hammered.........

You're a very strange individual aren't you? Norris was on queer street after the first knock down. Broner wasn't. He recovered and fought out of his skin but was in with a much stronger and more powerful man who was able to bully him.

Boxtthis wrote:Broner needs to up his work rate both offensively and defensively if he's to beat Maidana. He has this tendency to stand in front of his opponents thinking he can just roll all the punches. He clearly can't. He also has a low punch output.

Yes, hes talented. He has good timing, he's very accurate, good reflexes, etc. But, it's completely unfair to Maidana to say 'oh he caught Broner early and Broner never recovered'. He caught him because Broner has a style that isn't well suited to pressure/volume punchers like Maidana. Broner used to get away with all this when he fought smaller opponents who couldn't hurt him. Now, he's found out the hard way that you can't (at least he can't) stand too stationary and expect to pot shot as he wants.

Thank you! Someone who actually watched the fight.

I welcome all opinions.......Just that trying to describe to someone that when your legs go it's hard to get power in your shots........isn't always easy.....especially If he fights today !!!

Broner is suffering what all modern fighters suffer from Haz.........The fact in his eyes they are all crap.............

My opinion is that if Broner fights the same way that he has for most of his career then he gets caught repeatedly again and probably loses.

He needs to dramatically up his work rate in order to allow his superior talent to get him through against Maidana. Can someone really change their style so dramatically? It's difficult, although not completely unheard of.

As it stands now. Broner may be the better boxer, but Maidana is the stronger fighter.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I welcome all opinions.......Just that trying to describe to someone that when your legs go it's hard to get power in your shots........isn't always easy.....especially If he fights today !!!

Broner is suffering what all modern fighters suffer from Haz.........The fact in his eyes they are all crap.............

 
That's an odd persecution complex you have just because I refuse to join in your Mayweather dogging session.
 
Broner isn't a welterweight -- he doesn't have enough power to hurt Maidana. That's the skinny here.
 
So, not picking Broner to win the rematch means I don't rate modern fighters........but.....what does it mean if I'm picking Maidana to win? Oh my God I've created a vortex.....

Broner has a shockingly poor defence.

He's got no clue against fighters that have a great left hook(Daniel Ponce de Leon left hooked him to death and got robbed. Maidana ruined him with the left hook). 

Coupled with Broner's got no power against proper welterweights. 

Maidana KOs him this time.

Steve Bunce wrote an article suggesting that a Maidana win would benefit boxing as he wasn't sure the planet would survive Broner being an even bigger pr!ck than he already is if he was to get the win.

DAVE667 wrote:Steve Bunce wrote an article suggesting that a Maidana win would benefit boxing as he wasn't sure the planet would survive Broner being an even bigger pr!ck than he already is if he was to get the win.

 
Boner could be the goofiest boxer since Neon Leon. He is to Floyd what De Palma was to Hitchcock.

Best to have boring no-names dominating boxing..

Truss, I find it hard to believe that Broner only lost the fight cos he got caught early and lost he legs. If he didnt get caught then, he was going to be caught sooner then later. Too efficient in his punches, very open defense (can't shoulder roll like his big bro) and not enough power at welter.
 
Unless he has completely changed his style, he is made for Maidana.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Best to have boring no-names dominating boxing..

Broner won't be dominating anything...

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:Truss, I find it hard to believe that Broner only lost the fight cos he got caught early and lost he legs. If he didnt get caught then, he was going to be caught sooner then later. Too efficient in his punches, very open defense (can't shoulder roll like his big bro) and not enough power at welter.
 
Unless he has completely changed his style, he is made for Maidana.

Watch Norris vs Brown 1 and 2......

and then get back to me....

I thought Tyson was going to catch Holy sooner or later.........and Hagler - leonard.

My feeling is Broner will win the rematch.  Maidana really is a basic fighter with a really good left hook and a less powerful overhand right that chops down at close quarters.

Broner has the ability to negate Maidana's assets. The caveat being The Problem doesn't have the resistance to take sustained shots from Chino.

If Broner has the discipline to keep circling to the left and using his faster hands to pepper Maidana with the jab and straight lefts he can win in a boring performance.

Maidana isn't suddenly top class he is just bigger with heavier hands than Broner.  Broner was getting back into the fight before he left himself open again to some big shots.

If Broner had better footwork I would make him the easy favourite.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Best to have boring no-names dominating boxing..

 
Better to have good fighters rather than guys who are more well known for wiping their jacksy on dollar notes and making porno movies than what they've actually achieved in the ring.

Truss no offence but given your saying it's unfair how Broner is criticised for being ambitious...think your being a tad unfair on Maidana here.

Whilst I can buy into the fact that Broner may have been somewhat affected by the eary knockdown, I don't think it was the main reason behind him losing, that is to say had it not occurred for me the fight still would have gone the same way.

You mention that losing his legs lost him his power, but on the evidence of the Malignaggi fight it simply isn't there at 147. Long before he stepped up plenty of people said he had been having his way at the lighter-weights because of his sheer size...there was always a question mark as to how effective he would be when he came up against someone as big as him.

On the night I described Maidana's performance as a mugging and that's exactly what it was. He got close to Broner, utilized his strength in the early exchanges and essentially bullied him around the ring.

The Argentine has shown vast improvements in his boxing, that isn't to say he has become Sweet Pea but you only need to go back and watch his fights at 140 to see the marked improvement.

I'm with Boxtthis in his assessment to be honest. Broner is good but far to believing of his own hype; his arrogance costs him...both in fights and in training camps. Whilst he does without doubt have exceptional ability he also has serious flaws which I just don't see being sorted.

Think a rematch ends much the same way as the first outing; unless Broner ups his work rate significantly and realises he is no where near the defensive maestro he believes himself to be then Maidana walks through him with the left hooks once again and well & truly puts 'The Problem' to bed!

That is good rebuttal..........But I rate Maidana...

However Broner lost his legs early so he didn't really have the power to dissuade him from taking liberties........

It is possible to beat someone who is bigger by being cuter also........History is full of examples..

I think Broner is a cuter boxer than Marcos and to say because Maidana is bigger = he wins isn't accurate..

Broner couldn't get into the fight because like Norris vs brown he'd lost his legs.......

I believe Groves could have stopped Froch If he had been more ambitious as I pointed out to my non-interested wife that his legs were still gone in the 2nd and 3rd.........

She was enthusiastic in her response..

Froch was lucky to get them back...........Broner never did...

Think Mate you undersell broner and his talents a bit..

Oh I totally agree - In fact more often than not the cuter boxer will win out and Broner is definitely the better boxer of the two.

Naturally I think he has all the talent to overcome someone like Maidana - if he actually utilised that talent to it's full...something which I don't think he does.

As I mentioned I think his over-confidence makes him lazy, both in his application during training camps and during the fight....it's this which I think costs him the fight...not Maidana's size in itself....but the fact that because I don't see Broner making the necessary changes I think the story will unfold much the same.

I've often been critically of Broner, that I admit....in much the same way as DeGale. Reason being they are both guilty of the same thing...not making the most of the talent they have. Both strut around believing they are the second coming and because of this they fail to best utilise their abilities and apply themselves correctly thus leaving flaws, which could easily be eradicated, to be exposed.

I dont see how he beats Maidana unless he chances his ethos as a fighter. If he is constantly on the move, peppering Maidana with quick combos, circling left to avoid the left hook and throw more then a handful of punches per round. He would probably win.

But as someone has already pointed out, winning via this method would question his huge ego and could face a backlash from the fans accusing him of fighting scared. And he would only have himself to blame as he has portrayed himself as though his style is unbeatable and boxers have to change there’s to beat him.

He is fundamentally flawed and I just think that Maidana has his number.

We all know how the saying goes, styles makes fights.

If he did win and then campaigned at Welter, I dont fancy his chances against the other titlists either. He needs to take his medicine and drop down in weigh otherwise it could become another David Price rebuilding process.

Some on here felt and still do Duran had Leonard's number.........

Like I said Broner fought most of the fight with no legs...

Ask Norris who won by shutout in his rematch what that's like.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Some on here felt and still do Duran had Leonard's number.........

Like I said Broner fought most of the fight with no legs...

Ask Norris who won by shutout in his rematch what that's like.

So do you suggest if Broner goes into the rematch with his same style and tactics he would win?

75% Broner for the rematch. Clever boxer. He'll have watched the fight and learned. He had plenty of success when he pushed maidana onto the back foot. He just didn't do it often enough. A busier, more offensive Broner, who is cautious in the first 4 rounds wins this. Maidana can punch when his feet are static. Maidana can't punch while moving backwards. Broner has to back him into the ropes, retreat, allow Maidana a space of escape, and then back him into the ropes again, over and over. He can't back maidana onto the ropes, keep him there, and open up, because Maidanas feet would be static, allowing him to punch back.

So Truss,

Do you genuinely believe that it's simply a case of 'if he avoids the knockdown' he wins the rematch?!

Having watched most of his previous fights but more so his outing against Paulie and Marcos I think their is definitely more to it than that...he needs to drastically alter his punch volume; I'm not in agreement that without losing his legs he has the power to stop Maidana coming forward...think it has to be a combination of Volume & power.

I also think he gets caught square footed far to often for someone who claims to be gifted with natural athleticism. He is also suspect to leaving himself open to body shots...as seen against Rees early doors and Malignaggi in his first bout at 147.

I'm saying he didn't have time to get into the fight...

Maybe his style was wrong who knows......But he was caught too early to tell for me......and I credit him with enough talent to maybe change If he needs to...

Every fighter is susceptible to being caught early..........

Shuler -Hearns...........Unfortunately people on here only see the Black Gold that was put away and looked sloppy in 50 seconds...He was a very good operator..

RIP..

3fingers wrote:75% Broner for the rematch. Clever boxer. He'll have watched the fight and learned. He had plenty of success when he pushed maidana onto the back foot. He just didn't do it often enough. A busier, more offensive Broner, who is cautious in the first 4 rounds wins this. Maidana can punch when his feet are static. Maidana can't punch while moving backwards. Broner has to back him into the ropes, retreat, allow Maidana a space of escape, and then back him into the ropes again, over and over. He can't back maidana onto the ropes, keep him there, and open up, because Maidanas feet would be static, allowing him to punch back.

Don't mean to pick out you especially 3fingers; but your post provides the exact reasons why I don't see him winning a rematch and why he is so frustrating:

I don't think he will have watched the fight & learned...if in fact he even watched the fight back to begin with. I agree that should he up his punch volume he has a much better chance of winning...however if he decides to be more offensive in terms of staying in the pocket longer then think he gets slowed down gradually through body shots (as mentioned in my earlier post, he is suspect to these). I'm also not sure he has the natural strength at 147 to back someone up in the manner which he did at the lower-weights...in this manner I think he is similar to Rick Hatton...whereby the margins between his size being effective at one weight & not at another are very slim.

As I've stated...think for me Broner's over-inflated ego & team of 'yes' men which he surrounds himself will leave him grossly underachieving in this sport..if he just knuckled down and worked then think he has all the natural talents to iron out his flaws and go on achieve much more.

He's got the talent but he's hasn’t got the intelligence, inside and outside of the ring.
 
Your maybe right but from what I've seen from Broner in recently, doesn't bode well for the rematch.
 
You mention Norris vs Brown as an example but a rebuttal could be Forrest v Mayorga, Lopez v Siri and even more recently Price v Thompson. Sometimes a boxer could have more talent, have a very successful career, beat a bunch of future HOFers but sometime you come across a boxer who has your number and I feel Maidana has Broners.

Maybe also to factor in how quickly Broner asked for a rematch........

My guess is he feels the knockdown incapacitated him or/and he either underestimated Maidana or didn't give of his best for whatever reason........

He had other options...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm saying he didn't have time to get into the fight...

Maybe his style was wrong who knows......But he was caught too early to tell for me......and  I credit him with enough talent to maybe change If he needs to...

Every fighter is susceptible to being caught early..........

Shuler -Hearns...........Unfortunately people on here only see the Black Gold that was put away and looked sloppy in 50 seconds...He was a very good operator..

RIP..

Think your making a sweeping generalisation there, a tad unfair though perhaps correct in a few cases.

I get what you mean...and I suppose that is why their is interest in a rematch. We will get to find out whether it was a case of Broner being caught early and therefore taken out of his gameplan...or whether it's a case of Maidana simply has his number.

I, like you, credit him with enough talent to go away and learn and come back with a game plan to beat him....sadly I think he has the combination of an overinflated ego, a group of yes men and not the necessary amount of brain power to apply himself properly, iron out the flaws and come back better.

Think he will simply turn up thinking, well I'll not get caught early and that will be enough to ensure I start to pick him apart and steamroll him.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Maybe also to factor in how quickly Broner asked for a rematch........

My guess is he feels the knockdown incapacitated him or/and he either underestimated Maidana or didn't give of his best for whatever reason........

He had other options...

Don't think Broner's confidence will ever be an issue, more like his lack of intelligence.

I would have said that about Duran but he never called Hearns out again !!

He's lost one fight where he got caught early at a weight two levels higher than he's been fighting and he's stupid..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I would have said that about Duran but he never called Hearns out again !!

He's lost one fight where he got caught early at a weight two levels higher than he's been fighting and he's stupid..

 
To be fair I thought he was stupid long before the Maidana fight.

You are on form to day with all your rebuttal and opinions...

Might have to break the habit of a life time and start taking you seriously..

Owen10ozzy, The key to beating maidana is to push him on the back foot, you don't need to stay in the pocket to do that.....All ranges of punches can make someone retreat. Effective footwork is what will beat him. Running from Froch is stupid, pushing him onto the backfoot is sensible. Neither Froch or Maidana can throw an effective punch while moving backwards.

Owen10ozzy, The key to beating maidana is to push him on the back foot, you don't need to stay in the pocket to do that.....All ranges of punches can make someone retreat. Effective footwork is what will beat him. Running from Froch is stupid, pushing him onto the backfoot is sensible. Neither Froch or Maidana can throw an effective punch while moving backwards.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You are on form to day with all your rebuttal and opinions...

Might have to break the habit of a life time and start taking you seriously..

Haha touché.

No boss in today which allows more v2 action.