Toulouse vs Saracens - Pool 3, 5th round

Toulouse vs Saracens - Sunday, 12th January - 16:00


There are some big matches this weekend but the Toulouse vs Saracens has to be one of the most anticipated.

The French aristocrats vs the English league leaders. Toulouse have kept up their irresistible unbeaten home form in the top 14 with a win vs league leaders Clermont. Sarries have been in very good form in recent weeks - beating Leicester at home, both Worcester and Gloucester away.

Saracens have one of the best away records in the HC and Toulouse have one of the best home records in the HC. Sarries are also one of the only sides to beat Toulouse away albeit in 2000.

No disrespect to Connacht but I feel that Toulouse underestimated them in that HC loss in round 3. There will no complacency from Toulouse. This is a winner takes all clash (why it's more important than the other matches in my opinion). The losing side might still qualify as a best runners up but would have to face a daunting away trip to the likes of Toulon,Clermont or Leinster.


The Saracens team will have changed a little bit since their first encounter -Barritt and Bosch will be expected to start in the centres which will strengthen them defensively and offensively respectively. With the injuries to Burger and Fraser, Brown will be expected to continue to play at 7.

Rest of the team should stay unchanged but the form of the players, particularly Wigglesworth and Brits has significantly improved.

Key battle for me will be the frontrow battle. It's an area where Saracens have generally struggled vs the strongest sides. Getting parity at least will be crucial. Another important point will be how Saracens combat the physicality that Toulouse bring. Sarries are a strong side but have been outmuscled by the likes of Toulon,Clermont and Saints in big recent matches. I feel that someone on the Sarries side will need to have as much as a positive impact as Galan did for Toulouse in the Wembley encounter.

Toulouse successfully nullified the Vunipola bros last time round, Saracens will need those two to put their team on the front foot.

I believe that Fritz is injured and perhaps more crucially it doesn't seem like Galan is available (he didn't play vs Clermont).

My choice head to heads:

Census Johnston vs Mako Vunipola

Louis Picamoles vs Billy Vunipola

Clement Poitrenaud vs Brad Barritt

Thoughts?

Undoubtedly the biggest game of the weekend.

whoever wins it will have a home qf. Along with the winner of the Ulster/Leicester group, and most likely Toulon and Clermont.

Whoever loses it will have a 7th or 8th place along with the runner up in the Ulster/Leicester group.

Munster and Leinster's groups will provide the other 2 away qfs barring a home win for Quins this week (not impossible) or Toulon slipping up in one of their last 2 games (highly unlikely)

Jenifer how do you see this going? The logical option would be a Toulouse win but I think Saracens are capable of winning with the way they've been playing.

beshocked wrote:Jenifer how do you see this going? The logical option would be a Toulouse win but I think Saracens are capable of winning with the way they've been playing.

I would agree. Toulouse are not the team they were even 2 years ago. They do have a fair bit of quality though. Hard to call, but Sarries defo able to win it.

Noves said that Saracens were the all blacks of european club rugby
All pre game talk but there is tons of respect here specially after the trashing of Leicester. Toulouse form is at best shaky, their last 3 home games were tight wins here and havent shown much since their performance in Wembley. I fancy Saracens personally.

whocares wrote:Noves said that Saracens were the all blacks of european club rugby
All pre game talk but there is tons of respect here specially after the trashing of Leicester. Toulouse form is at best shaky, their last 3 home games were tight wins here and havent shown much since their performance in Wembley. I fancy Saracens personally.

whocares I feel that it's clever by Noves to build Saracens up. He's hardly going to downplay Saracens. Sarries have been playing well but have always suffered against bigger sides like Toulon,Clermont and Saints.

That Leicester team was missing too many players - really nice win but a full strength leicester would have been a much stiffer test.

Nice to get your perspective as a Frenchman.

I think Saracens are as in good shape as they can be but Toulouse at home are a formidable force. If Sarries can win though I can believe that they can do well in the HC and could become a contender.

Do you know what the injury status is at Toulouse? I can only speculate. You're basically the resident top 14 expert.

Toulouse on paper have a powerful squad. You are right jenifer they might not be as good as they were 2 years ago but it's still got enough talent to beat most sides.

Honestly I see Toulouse winning. Sarries will take an early lead but not capitalize on it. Toulouse have the nouse to reel them back in over the full match and steal it at the end.

Sarries just don't have the smarts of prior English clubs to be able to out think Toulouse and beat them with a mix of power and speed, not just grunt and kicking.

yappysnap I disagree. Not on your point about Toulouse winning. That's a logical conclusion.

It's about Saracens not having the smarts. Don't understand while you feel that way.

I think they do -they are well coached. They've been scoring more tries this season because they've been brutally clinical - nothing particularly flashy, just intelligent play.

If there is any time they are going to take a scalp like this it's now.

Fritz, Toulouse best defender (in the backline) is missing and not sure about who will be their flyhalf since both McAlister and barraque are out.

Thanks whocares. What's the status on Galan? He didn't start vs Clermont. Is that a sign that he's being saved for Sarries or is he injured?

Jean Marc Doussain seems to start vs Clermont so I would expect the same vs Sarries?

Is he any good?

beshocked wrote:yappysnap I disagree. Not on your point about Toulouse winning. That's a logical conclusion.

It's about Saracens not having the smarts. Don't understand while you feel that way.

I think they do -they are well coached. They've been scoring more tries this season because they've been brutally clinical - nothing particularly flashy, just intelligent play.

If there is any time they are going to take a scalp like this it's now.

Unfortunately previous euro results have shown that Sarries AP form is never carried over to the big HC games.

In all past games Sarries have gone overly conservative and safety first in all aspects. This has seen them still manage to take the lead in games but as they'll keep kicking the ball away and the top French clubs have far better players then most Prem teams they come up against this tactic won't work and theyll cone undone.

Galan has a small knee injury. Needs a check up first. Same with beauxis. Doussain is primarely a 9 and a reliable physical one but can also play 10 if required although he didnt always seem in control last weekend.

http://www.saracens.com/saracens-name-team-to-face-toulouse/



Saracens team to face Toulouse;
15. Alex Goode; 14. Chris Ashton, 13. Chris Wyles, 12. Brad Barritt, 11. David Strettle; 10. Owen Farrell, 9. Neil de Kock; 1. Mako Vunipola, 2. Schalk Brits, 3. James Johnston, 4. Steve Borthwick ©, 5. Alistair Hargreaves, 6. Jackson Wray, 7. Kelly Brown, 8. Billy Vunipola.
Replacements;
16. Jamie George, 17. Richard Barrington, 18. Matt Stevens, 19. George Kruis, 20. Ernst Joubert, 21. Richard Wigglesworth, 22. Charlie Hodgson, 23. Duncan Taylor.



Hugely disappointed that Bosch misses out.



15. Maxine Medard
14. Yoann Huget
13. Yann David
12. Clement Poitrenaud
11. Hosea Gear
10. Jean Marc Doussain
9. Jano Vermaak

1. Schalk Ferreira
2. Chiliboy Ralepelle
3. Cencus Johnston
4. Yoann Maestri
5. Patricio Albacete
6. Yannick Nyanga
7. Thierry Dusatoir
8. Louis Picamoles

Replacements: Tolofua, Steenkamp, Montes, Millo-Chluski, Tekori, Bezy, Fickou & Camara


Have to look to exploit the relative inexperience of Doussain if you (whocares) say he is normally a 9.

No Galan probably balances the absentee of Bosch in my opinion.

Even without Galan Toulouse have Joe Tekori on the bench. i remember a few games last year for Castres, he played in the second row for 60 minutes then moved to 8 and still had the pace to almost score 20 yards out from a scrum! He hasnt quite reached that sort of form this season, with injuries leading to a lack of game time. However a huge game in the HC is just the sort of match to bring out his best.

Good luck Sarries, let's give the T14 nothing this weekend!

Whilst Gloucester offered absolutely no challenge to Sarries, if Sarries play a similar off loading game as to the one last week they have every chance of winning this. It is going to be a huge forward battle and certainly rather an enjoyable one to watch. As is often the way with French sides, it just depends on which Toulouse side turns up. Recent English performances there will probably buoy Sarries further. I can see Sarries winning this one.

On a side note, it's a good job Qera isn't registered for the HC, as with Nyanga, Dusatoir and Picamoles that it an amazing array of backrow talent.

I'm looking forward to this game. I reckon Sarries will nick it, just a gut feeling. They certainly have the team to do it.

And don't confuse me for someone who's on the I hate Ashton bandwagon but is there any reason as to why he's still in the EPS?

Inexperience in the other options, good club form

I think his club form is okay, probably not as good as some others. He's been so disappointing for England in every game.

Inexperience doesn't necessarily mean weakness. We were playing Cuthbert and North in the 6 Nations, neither of which had many caps at the time (zero in Alex's case).

I think if Wade and Yarde were fit he'd be gone, but they arent

ChequeredJersey wrote:Inexperience in the other options, good club form, plus copies of the Calum Clark photos

Changed it for you   

The Saint wrote:I think his club form is okay, probably not as good as some others. He's been so disappointing for England in every game.

Inexperience doesn't necessarily mean weakness. We were playing Cuthbert and North in the 6 Nations, neither of which had many caps at the time (zero in Alex's case).

Club form is okay? I would say it's a bit better than that. Probably not as good as others? Whose been better in your opinion?

On another thread I explained in more detail why Ashton is still in the squad.

This one is hard to call. I think Connacht winning in France has caused Toulouse to be focused for this one. They know a win tonight means they top it with a home QF which has cost them in the past.

Sarries can run it but almost lost to Connacht by defending deep in the lwst 10mins and did to Toulouse though on top in bith games early on. They have to attack or they will lose.

If they lose they should beat connacht but would put them under soke presure if it were tight.

Brendan disagree. Toulouse were always going to be targeting this game. They have always seen Sarries as their main pool rivals.

I feel that's how Connacht managed to beat Toulouse - complacency and underestimating the opposition. We saw what Toulouse did to Connacht when they went on the return leg.

Again I wouldn't mention the Connacht- Sarries game as an indicator for this match. Sarries were well below par that day plus I felt they suffered from complacency also.

I can't see Connacht beating Saracens at Allianz Park as long as they take them seriously enough.

beshocked wrote:Brendan disagree. Toulouse were always going to be targeting this game. They have always seen Sarries as their main pool rivals.

I feel that's how Connacht managed to beat Toulouse - complacency and underestimating the opposition. We saw what Toulouse did to Connacht when they went on the return leg.

Again I wouldn't mention the Connacht- Sarries game as an indicator for this match. Sarries were well below par that day plus I felt they suffered from complacency also.

I can't see Connacht beating Saracens at Allianz Park as long as they take them seriously enough.

Connacht's preparation for the return leg could not have been worse as most of their squad came down with the flu during he week and some players actually couldn't even play the match. I'm not saying Connacht would have won otherwise, but it basically killed it as a competition.

The bench for both teams is strong, with ST shading it. This could come down to shrewd use of subs.

Sarries are strong enough to win this atm if they can weather the inevitable storm in the first 20 minutes.

If ST don't get a good start then I think they are vulnerable.

This game could well have been the final (& possibly still might?) notwithstanding the other weaker teams in the pool.

Really looking forward to this game as I think Sarries have looked better since ST beat them at Wembly.
I think Sarries have now got the belief & squad to take the game this time round.

Are they mercenaries?

ME-109 wrote:I really hope that Toulouse hammer the shoite out of saffercens....as they did in the home game. Lets see if the mercenaries of saffercens have any bottle.

Ah the uninformed postings of a fool.

Just what this thread needed.

Good luck to Sarries, as I've said before I think youll have enough in the first 60 to lead but after that it's wether you try to defend all game or keep attacking that'll seal the deal.

Lets see if the mercenaries of saffercens have any bottle.

Not quite sure what your definition of mercenary is but Saracens have the same number of Englishmen in their XV as Toulouse have Frenchmen in theirs.

I understand Sarries are easy to dislike, and I still can't really bring myself to like them, but compares to a few years ago they are now bringing through a lot more English players and the Saffacens tag isn't really applicable given they only have 3 South Africans in their starting XV tomorrow.

Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

yappysnap wrote:Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

So yippy, how many of their starting fifteen are from their academy? In terms of what they have achieved on or off the field, maybe you should remind us? Did mother Teresa endorse them or something?

Very interesting article in the Telegraph about Sarries and the last few years. Well worth a read if you'd like to expand your outlook on them.

i make it 16 of the 23 are EQ which is better than most can muster!

ME-109 like your namesake can you take the whiney noise to another thread.

How evermuch i want us to win i just can see us finishing them off enoughto be safe and lose in the last 5. I would love to be wrong though

Knackered yea I agree Sarries are most likely to lose it at the death after taking the lead (much like Quins, sniff   ).

George Carlin wrote:ME109 - let's keep it civil please. The thread's just got started.

Cheers George.

Congrats on letting yourself be indoctrinated into the Mods as well. You must be brave (or insane) with the 6N's around the corner.

Classic Chris Ashton missed tackle almost costs Sarries a try. Luckily the rest of his team bail him out.

surely your not on your feet if your crawling on your hands too.

Not sure how that wasn't a penalty against Toulose. You can't just crawl on hands and knees over the player then pick up the ball and run off with it!

Oh and good to see plenty of that vaunted vision and game awareness from Goode too.

yappysnap wrote:Oh and good to see plenty of that vaunted vision and game awareness from Goode too.

What did Goode do?

Albacete coming through a ruck on his hands and knees is legitimate? Poitenraud drops both knees into the back of Sykes as he drops on the ball and no card? If I was a Sarries fan I'd be very annoyed with the ref at the end of that half.

i thought the albacete pickup was ok. he walked through the ruck, the bal was out, he stumbled and picked it up.

glad to see misterschmidt is on expected form after the leinster match. he should hand over his carkeys along with his logon.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Albacete coming through a ruck on his hands and knees is legitimate? Poitenraud drops both knees into the back of Sykes as he drops on the ball and no card? If I was a Sarries fan I'd be very annoyed with the ref at the end of that half.

yellow would have been harsh. would be a particularly obvious place to deliberately aim to hurt.

ME-109 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Sarries have a very good academy and good links with clubs. As mentioned they only have a few SA players in the team now and routinely field a majority of EQ players in the Prem and in Europe. Sometimes difficult to like but definitely not mercenaries and you have to admire some of the things they've achieved on and off the field.

So yippy, how many of their starting fifteen are from their academy? In terms of what they have achieved on or off the field, maybe you should remind us? Did mother Teresa endorse them or something?

  

Nah he was definitely on hands and knees. And even if it was a stumble that still counts as off feet, once your hands are on the floor you can't play.

fine to be on hands and knees after the ruck, just not in it

would like to see it again on slowmo though