Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

One guy I think deserves high praise from these two Treviso games is Sean Doyle.
As you know I reported some doubt about his future and that he needed to put his hand - he has done so big time.

Few more games like that and he will be with us next year for sure.

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Thought he would but great to hear.

That it is it official there no more big names to leave Ulster.

Afoa, Court, Muller (95% certain) is it

No chance Muller doing another season?

I would say it is not impossible but I would not put your house on it.
The fact Humphreys has formally asked the IRFU if it is ok to sign a NIQ Lock says it all to me.

geoff998rugby wrote:But he wont get any taller and they are the same height 1.91cm
Another thing they have in common

I would say that is plenty tall for a 6/8.

One of the best 6s (Alberts) and one of the best 8s (Picamoles) are that height.

geoff998rugby wrote:Loved this from Rory

The support that I received when I missed out on the initial Lions squad was a massive factor in me making the decision to stay. That made me feel very special and underlined to me that Ulster is more than a team, it is a community and a rugby family

I know at the time he was genuinely moved by the expressions of support he got when he, initially, missed out on the Lions. It meant a lot to him

Legend. One of my favourite players for the past few years.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:But he wont get any taller and they are the same height 1.91cm
Another thing they have in common

I would say that is plenty tall for a 6/8.

One of the best 6s (Alberts) and one of the best 8s (Picamoles) are that height.

I see you point but Alberts is as wide as he is tall not sure Joyce could ever bulk out to that extent.
Picomoles survives by having exceptional hands - dont think Joyce can match that but hey lets see how he develops.

I do have high hopes the lad will be a very useful additional to the squad in the years ahead.

geoff998rugby wrote:
I would say it is not impossible but I would not put your house on it.

Given the current state of the NI property market I'd happily take that chance Geoff....   

1 more year, 1 more year!

Absolutely delighted to see Rory Best staying on, the man is one of my favourite ever Ulster players and one of the guys in the national team who really leads by example and shows a huge amount of pride in the Ireland jersey.

Regarding Muller- when he signed the plan was to do two years and then retire, with maybe a third year if things went especially well. For him to do four years is a tribute to how much he has enjoyed his time with Ulster and he owes us nothing. Great player.

We owe Muller, not the other way round... the best signing we've ever made bar none. Legend.

Muller is already doing his extra year.

One thing in favour of the Rabo is that there are rest periods, and that's what persuaded him to do one more year. For those who think a more contiguous season would be a good thing, it actually precludes players like Muller continuing as long as they do. Some of these guys are in serious pain after a game and that's why it becomes harder and harder to come back from injury as they get older.

Muller has earned his retirement - no question.

I would love muller to remain in a coaching capacity but I don't know if he has the interest. Anyway for Friday I am guessing (without hearing of any certainties) 

Court
Herring
Fitz
Muller
McComb
Diack
Doyle
McComish (would have said Wilson until injury)
Pienaar
Jackson
Gilroy
Wallace
Cave
Trimble
Andrew

Black, Annett, Afoa(is he still here?), Stevenson/Tuohy, Joyce, Marshall, McKinney, Allen

Would rather we went hard for 5 points and then rested guys, ideally taking off Muller, Diack, Cave, Jackson and Herring as early as possible and of course requiring us to be out of sight.

Stevenson will not be fit.

My money is on Black starting.

Heard a whisper that we may rest quite a few this week and that we will have a real crack at Leinster.

Interesting ..Wait the Thursday team announcement with baited breath.

If we do have good guys on the bench just in case

geoff998rugby wrote:Heard a whisper that we may rest quite a few this week and that we will have a real crack at Leinster.

Well that would make sense Geoff. Our league position isn't great so we can't afford to drop points over this period or we could find ourselves struggling to make the play offs.

Without wanting to sound arrogant we should be able to rest a lot of front liners and still beat Zebre and a win over Leinster would be a big boost to our league campaign, with the Heino break this is chance to claw back a few points.

In some positions we are well placed

Black, Annett, Fitzpatrick would be fine
Marshall at 9
Gilroy doesn't need a rest nor does Muller or Doyle.
Andrew at 15, Wallace at 12
I'd play Diack with all the other backrowers returning

Backbone of a decent enough team.

Lets see
Black, Annett, Fitzpatrick, McComb, Muller, McCormish, Diack, Doyle, Marshall, McKinney, McIlwaine, Wallace, Allen, Gilroy, Andrew

Bench: Court, Herring, Afoa/Lutton, Tuohy, Joyce, Porter/Heaney, Jackson, Trimble

Good enough?

This is pure guess work no inside info

I don't know rodders. Home games are more important so I would rather we target Munster. 4 interpros/heinekens back to back is too much IMO. As such Leinster is the obvious game to sacrifice. Had we a full deck to pick from then we could send don the likes of Henry, Hendo, Williams, Stevenson, Bowe, Best etc butwe don't and the likes of Diack, cave, Marshall, Tuohy and Wilson hav played a serious amount already. 

I don't think our play off place is under threat either truth be told. The welsh are in disarray and we only have to go to Cardiff of their lot(through no fault of their players I might add) and we have plenty of time to regroup after Leinster starting with home games against Munster and ospreys

Crux of my point is that everything should be geared towards winning against Montpellier and beating Leicester

No that's fine stand but I'm sure we want a top 2 finish which means we need to make up points on the teams above. Because of our sluggish start to the season we can't really afford to drop points in any of these games.

I'd rest quite a few for Zebre (not quite as many as Geoff) in the believe we can still get 5 points. Then I'd be aiming to beat Leinster with an almost full strength side.

Munster will send a weakened team so I think we can get a win in that one with some rotation. Even with the injuries we have some scope to rest players.

Backrow is a issue though - Diack needs a rest at 6 imo but so does Wilson.

Any news on Hendo and Williams?

If we are targetting Leinster it does not mean we are not targetting Munster as well.
The feeling seems to be we can rest a few against Zebre and be good enough to go for the next 4 games hard.
We have a three week break after that.

Diack I think will be flogged because we know we have the other guys coming back in time for the HC.
Heno is close as is Henry and Stevenson not heard anything re Willaims but I would assume ok for HC games

Rodders know what you mean maybe Trimble and Jackson could start instead of McIlwaine and McKinney - keeping the backs strong but still resting Pienaer, Payne,Cave and Marshall

Munster I think Geoff was mentioning. I would take a home HEC QF over a top two Rabo to be honest. With a full squad it would be easier and if we could get the likes of Henderson, Henry and Williams some gametime at Leinster great stuff. Wouldn't rick it if not 100% though.

If we do go for the 4 games then we better win 3 and that includes the two Heineken. If we lose an HEC QF at ravenhill it will come up.

Standulstermen wrote:Munster I think Geoff was mentioning. I would take a home HEC QF over a top two Rabo to be honest.

Well I would too no question but if you believe you have the resources to achieve both then that should be the target stand.

It's a gamble of course but then so is sacrificing the league for the Heino because come the end of March we could be out of the running in both.

I honestly think we have a enough depth to at least try and win the upcoming Rabo games and still go into the heino games fresh and battle hardened, especially with some key players to come back like Williams and Henry.

I wouldn't put a full strength side out in any game but we have some scope to rotate game to game in the tight 5, half back and especially the backs and still win all 3 games.

Exactly.

For example we can rotate the front row in full and still remain competitive
We can give Muller, Touhy 2 games each, Stevenson 1 and (this week) McComb 1 each and remain competitive in the second row
We can flog Diack and Doyle in the Pro12 games and bring Henry, Wilson, Henderson, Williams back in as they become available and remain competitive in the backrow


Scrum half and back three no problem, Centres - wilth Wallace and Allen we should be fine too

The only player we need through it all is Jackson and even there a game won, at 60 mins, could see Wallace, Pienaer or McKinney finishing the game for the last 20 mins.


It will require careful managment but we can do it

I don't think losing to Leinster away (when it's a real possibility with a full strength team anyway) is gambling with the league. 

Resting guys also means they don't get a good look at what you're about for when they come to ravenhill in the penultimate game. If we were able to win the 4 games onthe bounce great but I wouldn't be jeopardising that game at welford road for any money. I understand what you guys are saying but you are very reliant on these guys coming back with no ill effects and not tweaking something (which seems to be a pattern lets be honest).

Don't get me wrong I will be delighted to see a full blooded interpro and i admire the thinking behind it but if we end up going away to Toulon or Clermont in a QF and getting pumped again it will seem a tad pyrrhic if you ask me. (of course we cannot be sure we will get a home QF anyway but that will niggle in everyone's mind)

Just in relation to Geoff mentioning him I have to say that my Ulster player of the 2013 part of 2013/2014 season would be Robbie Diack. Let's not flog him too much

On the returnees we are playing it very safe this time.

No one being rushed back - we dont need them this week.
No one will play against Zebre who is not 100%

As you say a mistake already made

Its unfortunate but given the backrow injuries, we have no choice but to flog Robbie in the short term.

Hopefully it will only be for 2/3 more matches

If Roger Wilson fails to recover from his ankle injury, Robbie is the only guy left who can play number 8! We simply can't not play him, whether it be at 6 or 8. At least he's not an international so will get a break during the Six Nations and will have had one in the Autumn too.

Lewis Stevenson coming back into full training is really just in time because Muller and Tuohy both need a breather at some point.

Robbie is a fit guy and may drop to the bench when we have a full deck so I wouldn't worry too much about him playing a lot. He's a vital player over the next few weeks though until we get a few returnees back to bolster 6/8. Same logic applies to Herring.

Muller has missed quite a few games but would still be inclined to use him sparingly given his age, having Stevenson back is a big boost.

Front row there are options and there is loads of talent in the outside backs so we are in fine fettle going into the second half of the season.

I'm going to stick up for Robbie here. I think he is our first choice 6 now and won't drop to the bench. Anyway dates announced

Montpellier- 10th Jan 8pm
Leicester - 18th Jan 6pm

By the way if anyone needs tickets to Munster or Montpellier I am doing buses to both.

I wouldn't have a problem with that stand, he's certainly earned a starting spot.

However if Wilson, Williams, Henry and Ferris are all fit I could see him drop out. That's not a criticism just a reflection of how competitive the back row is.

I personally think Diack is a better player than Wilson although have got slated for saying so on here in the past....

Well in fairness rodders if Ferris is ever back fit there are very few players who would start ahead of him.

Agreed he has been great.
I suspect the games are a wee bit soon for Hendo, who I can see being on the bench.

It will 2 from 3 - Diack, Williams, Wilson with the other being on the bench

For me with everyone being fit (bar fez) our first choice pack is

Court
Best
Afoa
Muller
Tuohy
Diack
Henry
Williams (just)

Herring, Black, Fitz, Henderson, Wilson,

rodders wrote:
I personally think Diack is a better player than Wilson although have got slated for saying so on here in the past....

Different strengths- Diack is better in the lineout and wider channels, soft hands, good footballer. Wilson is more robust in contact, meaner in the tackle and offers a harder edge around the pitch. I think its pretty close between them.

I'm with Rodders. Diack is better than Wilson. I also think Diack's physicality has improved, and he's competing very well at the break downs.

(Deleted as in response to an posting that seems to have disappeared)

Playing who against Australia sorry?

clivemcl wrote:I'm with Rodders. Diack is better than Wilson. I also think Diack's physicality has improved, and he's competing very well at the break downs.

I think Wilsons regressed recently, just doesn't seem as sharp as he was just seems a bit more error prone

So the speculation beings.

Talk on the supporters site that we will sign a Sharks backrower

Saw that. Based on the fact that they are looking at Luke Watson. Alberts is the only on i can think of off the top of my head

Alberts is the well known one but some good players coming through.

Normally I would ignore but one those hinting does have genuine contacts

Coetzee seems to have stagnated in bok terms or rather been surpassed by louw.

Botes is old. Is Daniel not old too and potentially quite small. Deysel I haven't heard much about in a while. Ditto kankowski. I would hope for Alberts truth be told or Coetzee

. Just read the last guy, seems to be suggesting Daniel

Here is there full list of backrowers

Willem Alberts
Jacques Botes
Marcell Coetzee
Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Tera Mtembu

You can forget Botes way to old.
Everyone else is under 30.
Mtembu and Coetzee are the kids

Something in the back of my brain seems to recall Ryan Kankowski being mentioned a few months back

Is Daniel under 30? Didn't know that. Seems to have been around forever. Potentially could be him. He wouldn't threaten the national side. Wages would be reasonable enough you would imagine. 

Would still prefer the two I mentioned

The restaurant trade in Belfast would get a big boost if we signed Alberts.

I imagine he would just get whatever livestock he wanted from source

Alberts can play second row and flanker, Kankowski can play anywhere along the backrown, and Deysel can play anywhere in the back five. ...according to wikipedia.

Versatility really does help. Although, we have Diack and henderson who are pretty versatile at present.

It just takes a little pressure off, having versatility.

But can I just say... this whole conversation is coming from nothing more than the fact Sharks have approached another backrower. We are assuming a lot... that they are losing someone, and that they are losing them to Ulster...

There has been talk about it in the past.

As I say normally I would ignore but a few strands are clear

- a posted who has genuine contacts in the club hinted at it
- We have formally requested if it is ok to sign a NIQ backrower
- we have strong links to the Sharks
- they have more on their books than the want next year
- I have been told that with respect to 2nd row and backrow Saffers are the preferred options

My guess is we are having informal soundings with one or more of those individuals to establish if any are interested. I doubt it has got much beyond that

Obviously knowing who is out of contract at the end of the year would help

Botes was the one we were rumoured to be after wasn't it then we got Big Nick instead. I would be surprised if it wasn't Saffers we land to be honest. Can't think of a kiwi who is going to bugger off over the RWC. Same With the Wallabies.

Still might come down to money as Geoff mentioned before. Who knows what revenue will be coming in next season

geoff998rugby wrote:

Obviously knowing who is out of contract at the end of the year would help

I've been trying my best to google just that, but can't see much online about out of contract S15 players at all.

Alberts and Coetzee are signed to SARU until 2015

Kind of expected that to be honest.

Leave us with

Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Tera Mtembu

geoff998rugby wrote:Kind of expected that to be honest.

Leave us with

Keegan Daniel
Jean Deysel
Ryan Kankowski
Tera Mtembu

From what I can see geoff Kankowskis contract ran out, no word of a new contract but Smit said he'll be back with them next season so not sure how long he'll be signing on for if at all

Alberts would have been a wonder signing.  Still Deysel or Kankowski from that list would be a great signing.  Not sure how interested I'd be in signing a promising youngster like Mtembu given that it will take up an NIQ slot.