New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

First topic message reminder :

TJ wrote:What the PRL said.  They were saying how much the RCC was worth and how much each union would get from it.  That implies they had "sold" all the games.

They haven't specifically said how much it will be worth, just that there will be more money than the ERC have negotiated because of what they've managed to negotiate and what the French are expecting to get.  They won't know for certain what it is worth until the French have sold their rights.  The LNR ccertainly wouldn't be on board with the PLR if they had sold rights to their games, and there wouldn't be the money they are alluding to if they had.

Blanco is just aiming to replace Camou as the FFR big cheese.

Will we be doing this again next year???



CP NRL - Meeting of Presidents of clubs on the European Cup

Find the press release of the National Rugby League, on the meeting of the Presidents club this Thursday, November 28, 2013, on the European Cup. It appears a desire for a new structure is put in place to organize new competitions. But, given the importance of the work to achieve the implementation of the new structure from the season 2015/2016, the principle of a transitional period of one year has been validated. Read the full press release below.

MEETING OF PRESIDENTS OF CLUBS

Representatives of clubs and TOP 14 PRO D2 met this day at Orly under the auspices of the NRL.
The clubs first became aware of the outcome of negotiations on the new NRL Convention FFR /.
As regards the European Cups, French clubs welcome to see that all parties have so far expressed their agreement on the new competition format and principles of financial breakdown, which correspond to the initial platform developed by the NRL.
Clubs voted unanimously for a new structure is put in place to organize new competitions in accordance with the federations.

Given the importance of the work to achieve the implementation of the new structure from the season 2015/2016, the principle of a transitional period of one year, to apply from the new upcoming season competition formats brings together the best teams from 6 countries and new principles of financial allocation has been validated. This transitional period may take place under the current structure, since its governance will be modified, and respond to the needs of particular clubs on business management.

Hehe. I've found this whole thing pretty bizarre from day 1 truth be told.

The 24-team Heineken Cup is still the competition that most fulfills the needs of participants. For a long time its seemed like we've been arguing over a series of propositions that are worse than the status quo.

Even now, everything on the table is worse than the status quo.

I mean I get the terms of distribution of money and off-field issues needed to be reassessed.

But on the pitch? There's still not much worth changing. I would maybe consider a 16-team Amlin Cup instead of 20 but past that...

So the LNR are aiming for an agreement to a one year competition with the structure to be redone for the following season?

So that wil be after they have their TV deal sorted. After Lux has gone? After Camou is gone?

Perhaps the light of truth and justice WILL shine on European rugby in the near future.

I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying). If you're reducing it go to 16. 4 from the Pro12, 6 from the Jeff and 6 from the T14. That would make a lot more sense.

My school French ain't up to translating the Midi Olympique article but below is the Google Translate version - so don't blame me for the oddities in the text. Seems Racing Metro's Lorenzetti stormed out slamming the door but most of the clubs have taken the FFR shilling and are sticking with ERC and the rejigged HC.




Reform of the Heineken Cup: the NRL is back!

By M.D. and S.V. with A.B. 2013-11-28 15:57 updated 2013-11-28 16:44@RugbyramaFR

After months of relentless diplomatic war, French clubs have decided to dissociate itself from their English counterparts and remain under the fold of the ERC. The 'British' will go for a boycott? No doubt...

Five federations confirm the maintenance of an ERC competition in 2014-15
Lapasset: "time of the IRB has not yet arrived"

This Thursday, near Orly, the National Rugby League had convened a meeting to reflect on the follow-up to the project of Rugby Champions Cup, parallel that had been approached to supplant the Heineken Cup. But according to our information, a good part of the NRL leaders reportedly expressed Thursday their willingness to continue to participate in the Heineken Cup, through a vote.

The result of this vote is clear: the French clubs are therefore back machine and, ipso facto, to waist strap of the English clubs, which strongly wished to leave the fold of the ERC, the trading company managing the European Cup for eighteen years. Before the majority of representatives of the NRL turning project Rugby Champions Cup, the president of Racing, Jacky Lorenzetti, who was a strong supporter, would have slammed the door of the room, somewhat annoyed. Pierre Camou, which therefore comes out winner of the standoff with the president of the League, Paul Goze, however left a door open on the reform of the governance of the ERC.

Towards a boycott of English clubs?

What goes on, today? The cup of Europe 2014/2015 will be held under the aegis of the ERC, but without English clubs, which will probably call for a boycott of this competition. They engaged with the British Telecom diffuser, are unable to contract to break this contract to return to the ERC Girón, linked with the rival Sky Sports. A Heineken Cup between French, Celts and Italians, then? This is the outcome of the conflict at loggerheads with opposed the European Rugby Cup to English and French clubs for several months. Recall that in the season 1998/1999, English clubs had already boycotted the European competition, a decision which then impeded Bath to defend his European title.

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying).

Yep thats it. And now they are confused as to why exactly the Unions didn't come out and back the breakaway competition.

Notch wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying).

Yep thats it. And now they are confused as to why exactly the Unions didn't come out and back the breakaway competition.

It was to strengthen the Amlin cup and in fact the HC as well

Seems to me the English not being involved will suit everyone

The eRFU will not be in a difficult position with there clubs
They also will not be in conflict with the IRB
The PRL will not be in contravention of any IRB rules having given 2 years notice to quit the HC

Basically no long term problems - although a huge amount of distrust on both sides

The pressure will now be on the Welsh clubs to play in the HC and not rock this very fragile boat

Mind you going through all this next year will do my head in  

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying). If you're reducing it go to 16. 4 from the Pro12, 6 from the Jeff and 6 from the T14. That would make a lot more sense.

Are you serious about the breakdown ?

If in the very very unlikely event it was 16 it would be 6 Pro12/5 French/ 5 English

What ever comes to the fore in 2015-16 will be based on the 7/6/6 +1 split discussed a month ago.
Agreeing qualification and money will be the easy bit

Yeah, also the massive wedges of cash being thrust at the already wealthy French clubs by the FFR isn't exactly sustainable or desirable long term...

Not blaming you brennomac but Google Translate sucks with big bits of text. Still you get the jist.

So all the French clubs are involved but some not happy. Camou lef the door open on governance? (but he's not going to be there right? OR is he going for Lux's job?).

geoff999rugby wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying). If you're reducing it go to 16. 4 from the Pro12, 6 from the Jeff and 6 from the T14. That would make a lot more sense.

Are you serious about the breakdown ?

If in the very very unlikely event it was 16 it would be 6 Pro12/5 French/ 5 English

What ever comes to the fore in 2015-16 will be based on the 7/6/6 +1 split discussed a month ago.
Agreeing qualification and money will be the easy bit

 I know there are some nutters on here but it's a sad state of affairs if you have to ask if that was a serious suggestion for the breakdown. A sad day indeed. 

16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

"new upcoming season competition formats brings together the best teams from 6 countries"

English teams may enter yet

I'd say they are signed up to ERC for 10 years but format for only one to leave room if English do not reenter, for them to next year

I recently read a blog exaggerating the PRLs position for comic effect, the sad thing is I skim read it and didn't realise it was a parody.

http://thewaisaletimes.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/plug-pulled-on-man-in-bath/

At first I simply didn't notice the difference between this and how the PRL crowd actually come across in the media... I nearly linked to it on this thread  

At least the penny dropped at some stage, right?

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

Notch wrote:Yeah, also the massive wedges of cash being thrust at the already wealthy French clubs by the FFR isn't exactly sustainable or desirable long term...

massives wedges?? are you talking about the 2 mil euros that were mentionned here at some point? this is pocket money for most clubs, some get more from the local council/townhall anyway. I recently read lovely Mourad saying that he didnt care about the increase of tv rights as they couldnt spend more anyway (being limited by the salary cap) so potential extra money would not favour clubs like Toulon.

I hope they don't cave in on the governance issue (either next year or in 2018 if tied to the BT deal). There has been a lot of ridiculous scaremongering on here with nonsense about ownership and total control but I truly do not see the issue with a similar set-up as for the league.

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

I think i have worked out that your possibly thick or insane!

What is it you think i dont get based on the above

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

I think i have worked out that your possibly thick or insane!

What is it you think i dont get based on the above

Why do you discount that Notch could be both? I find that very offensive  

could you explain what he meant?

Taken from another forum

L'Equipe

"Gathered at Orly, Thursday, the French Top 14 clubs and ProD2 have agreed to participate in the European Cup, as recently remodeled by the ERC, provided that English clubs can find their place and that governance be redefined in 2015."

"A breakthrough was found: namely participation in the Heineken Cup with two reservations: that English clubs are willing to participate, and that the FFR supports the NRL in the creation of a new entity, which will not be the ERC, by 2015/2016."
Will be interesting to see the LNR actual announcement

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

I think i have worked out that your possibly thick or insane!

What is it you think i dont get based on the above

Why do you discount that Notch could be both?  I find that very offensive  

Occasionaly a little intense. Can we settle on that?

Tbh not sure what this whole 2015 is all about.

The PRL havent said 2015- its the other unions hoping that we will come back then

broadlandboy wrote:Taken from another forum

L'Equipe

"Gathered at Orly, Thursday, the French Top 14 clubs and ProD2 have agreed to participate in the European Cup, as recently remodeled by the ERC, provided that English clubs can find their place and that governance be redefined in 2015."

"A breakthrough was found: namely participation in the Heineken Cup with two reservations: that English clubs are willing to participate, and that the FFR supports the NRL in the creation of a new entity, which will not be the ERC, by 2015/2016."
Will be interesting to see the LNR actual announcement

Ahhh. Exciting times, eh what old chap?

It might be that she has started to warm up but doesn't seem as if she is singing just yet

broadlandboy wrote:Taken from another forum

L'Equipe

"Gathered at Orly, Thursday, the French Top 14 clubs and ProD2 have agreed to participate in the European Cup, as recently remodeled by the ERC, provided that English clubs can find their place and that governance be redefined in 2015."

"A breakthrough was found: namely participation in the Heineken Cup with two reservations: that English clubs are willing to participate, and that the FFR supports the NRL in the creation of a new entity, which will not be the ERC, by 2015/2016."
Will be interesting to see the LNR actual announcement

That's a rather loose translation of all that I have read so far on NewsNow. So far I have gleaned that most of LNR have voted in favour of ERC. That the door to PRL entering next years HEC is to remain open until February. On the talk of transition I'm not sure about, but have taken to mean either the process of implementation of agreed changes, or a possible change to format in the event of PRL agreeing to enter the following year.
I agree with you though. It's still a bit vague, and needs some clarity.

I would assume the transitional year is to allow the english clubs a way back in.

Or a year to get Camou out of the way & their new domestic TV deal signed

TJ wrote:I would assume the transitional year is to allow the english clubs a way back in.

I think it's likely. I can imagine that much of LNR discussion would have been focused on the possibility of PRL entering HEC with consideration to PRL extracting itself from the BT deal. There might not be a quick fix for that.

HammerofThunor wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying). If you're reducing it go to 16. 4 from the Pro12, 6 from the Jeff and 6 from the T14. That would make a lot more sense.

Are you serious about the breakdown ?

If in the very very unlikely event it was 16 it would be 6 Pro12/5 French/ 5 English

What ever comes to the fore in 2015-16 will be based on the 7/6/6 +1 split discussed a month ago.
Agreeing qualification and money will be the easy bit

 I know there are some nutters on here but it's a sad state of affairs if you have to ask if that was a serious suggestion for the breakdown. A sad day indeed. 

Sadly Hammer there has been so much tripe on here it is difficult to differentiate sometimes.  
As Jennifer said you don't see the emotion when posting
To be fair you are definitely one of the far more thoughtful contributors  

Dominion Post :

"The principle of a transition period of one year, which will allow as of next season the implementation of the new formats of competitions regrouping the best teams of the six countries, has been validated," the French league (LNR) said in a statement.

So transition refers to implementation of agreed changes, and also (quite possibly) the PRL entering HEC the following year.

it sounds like the prl know nothing about this deal but that is what the french and/or possibly SKY are asking/demanding

geoff999rugby wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand the point of reducing it to 20. The only reason I can fathom is that they wanted to reduce the number Pro12 teams without losing their own (and this was a French proposal that the PRL piggybacked on, as TJ keeps saying). If you're reducing it go to 16. 4 from the Pro12, 6 from the Jeff and 6 from the T14. That would make a lot more sense.

Are you serious about the breakdown ?

If in the very very unlikely event it was 16 it would be 6 Pro12/5 French/ 5 English

What ever comes to the fore in 2015-16 will be based on the 7/6/6 +1 split discussed a month ago.
Agreeing qualification and money will be the easy bit

 I know there are some nutters on here but it's a sad state of affairs if you have to ask if that was a serious suggestion for the breakdown. A sad day indeed. 

Sadly Hammer there has been so much tripe on here it is difficult to differentiate sometimes.  
As Jennifer said you don't see the emotion when posting
To be fair you are definitely one of the far more thoughtful contributors   

 

I'm pretty sure I've been called a pathetic WUM, blind fool and PRL cheerleader so not sure what that says about your opinion.  

Yeah this place is pretty ridiculous- everyone keeps arguing based on rumours built on rumours built on rumours.

And if anyone just slightly sides with the prl on anything you get attacked

mystiroakey wrote:it sounds like the prl know nothing about this deal but that is what the french and/or possibly SKY are asking/demanding

I don't know, but I would think at least some of those at LNR would be close to the heartbeat of PRL. I have no doubt that LNR, and all 6 Unions, plus SKY, would hope that PRL, or at least AP, would agree to HEC participation.

Munchkin wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:it sounds like the prl know nothing about this deal but that is what the french and/or possibly SKY are asking/demanding

I don't know, but I would think at least some of those at LNR would be close to the heartbeat of PRL. I have no doubt that LNR, and all 6 Unions, plus SKY, would hope that PRL, or at least AP, would agree to HEC participation.

The LNR were not at the meeting, The FFR are the ones dictating to the LNR

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

I think i have worked out that your possibly thick or insane!

What is it you think i dont get based on the above

Why do you discount that Notch could be both?  I find that very offensive  

Occasionaly a little intense. Can we settle on that?

I proudly lay claim to all three adjectives  

Notch wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:16 teams

5/5/5 plus the previous winner

After all this time, you still don't get it do you?  

I think i have worked out that your possibly thick or insane!

What is it you think i dont get based on the above

Why do you discount that Notch could be both?  I find that very offensive  

Occasionaly a little intense. Can we settle on that?

I proudly lay claim to all three adjectives  

so notch you gonna tell me what i dont get. You brought it up, at least be a man about it and explain yourself

Justice is served! The PRL showed no interest whatsoever in consulting the other parties when signing new TV deals and generally taking it upon themselves to dictate what happens next. Well, what goes around comes around, they and the RFU have been blanked and now left out to dry. Well done lads, now ta ta  

mystiroakey wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:it sounds like the prl know nothing about this deal but that is what the french and/or possibly SKY are asking/demanding

I don't know, but I would think at least some of those at LNR would be close to the heartbeat of PRL. I have no doubt that LNR, and all 6 Unions, plus SKY, would hope that PRL, or at least AP, would agree to HEC participation.

The LNR were not at the meeting, The FFR are the ones dictating to the LNR

As vague as these reports can be, I'm certain that LNR met together today. Otherwise why would have Jacky Lorenzetti been there? Well, until he stormed out in a huff

Knowsit17 wrote:Justice is served! The PRL showed no interest whatsoever in consulting the other parties when signing new TV deals and generally taking it upon themselves to dictate what happens next. Well, what goes around comes around, they and the RFU have been blanked and now left out to dry. Well done lads, now ta ta  

and yet everything seems to be resting on having to get the PRL back in no longer than 1 year.

Yeah the prl are really blanked arnt they /headsgone

mystiroakey wrote:so notch you gonna tell me what i dont get. You brought it up, at least be a man about it and explain yourself

Okay, first of all- take a deep breath!

Secondly, if your suggestion was meant as a joke/parody I apologise but the entire reason so many people object to PRL plans is their division of a third of the pie for the two big nations and a third of the pie for the remaining four nations.

Obviously we're never going to accept that, its ridiculously undemocratic. We don't argue that the competition should consist of six equal shares- right now England and France get about 25% of the places each and I agree that thats fair but increasing their share and cutting out smaller countries- no, it's never going to be an issue people just lie down on.

As the Pro12 is a cross-border competition of four nations, trying to treat it the same way as a league of one nation will just result in the kind of uneven distribution of places you yourself suggested.

I want a proper, fair distribution of places and a genuinely European competition. Any deal where the Pro12 has the same number of places as the other leagues is a complete non-starter for me and many others.

So the top14 French sides are sticking with the HC next year, looks like the ball is in the caught of the Regions from a Welsh pov now then.

Maybe we will have 2 tournamnets running, a cross border competition between the Englsish and Welsh sides then the HC with the others currently in it.

Notch wrote:I recently read a blog exaggerating the PRLs position for comic effect, the sad thing is I skim read it and didn't realise it was a parody.

http://thewaisaletimes.wordpress.com/2013/11/23/plug-pulled-on-man-in-bath/

At first I simply didn't notice the difference between this and how the PRL crowd actually come across in the media... I nearly linked to it on this thread  

At least the penny dropped at some stage, right?

'McCaffery' - "“I don’t accept the media reports claiming that there was a statement by the five Unions and until someone can prove otherwise we will carry on regardless.”

Funny.

I think the issue with the regions is whether the competition will definitely run for more than one year and whether the WRU funding is fixed or whether they could suddenly fall off next year.

That's why they haven't signed the PA yet.

As history has shown many times you can never trust the word of the French (apparently Jacky Lorenzetti excepted).

I do hope the PRL do not join this competition and either expand the AP or play a cup competition against SA.

It will be interesting to see how much Sky will pay for a competition not involving English clubs representing most of their potential audience as they do not broadcast to France.

BT may be happy as they are saving some money and are they already get very good audiences for AP Rugby - higher than Sky got for AP or HEC.

I still have to doubt it bedford- the welsh regions would be making more money inside the ERC stable and thats all they really care about. When the French clubs were in the RCC it looked like a sweet deal, now its just the LV-Cup at a better time of year.