New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

First topic message reminder :

TJ wrote:What the PRL said.  They were saying how much the RCC was worth and how much each union would get from it.  That implies they had "sold" all the games.

They haven't specifically said how much it will be worth, just that there will be more money than the ERC have negotiated because of what they've managed to negotiate and what the French are expecting to get.  They won't know for certain what it is worth until the French have sold their rights.  The LNR ccertainly wouldn't be on board with the PLR if they had sold rights to their games, and there wouldn't be the money they are alluding to if they had.

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

mystiroakey wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Sounds pretty on the money though

Is it really? If the RFU were invited, could they have provided English teams for ERC competitions next season?

That was the entire purpose of the meeting after all. If the PRL teams are not available for ERC competitions- and they've been making that clear for quite a long time- then the RFU can't provide any teams and whether they are there or not is something of a moot point.

the article isn't really about the RFU not being invited. Its more about the realities of a lesser ERC

It's all about the exclusion of the RFU. The whole article takes its lead from it!!  

read the article /headsgone

if you cant actually see past the obvious then maybe that is why you think its so bitter.,

Every key point is valid but only without the english in the ERC- nothing to do with being invited to the talks or not.

You may have missed the opening line of the article, mystir, and how that line continued throughout the article.

FOLLY OF OSTRACISING THE RFU

The Celtic unions may come to regret snubbing Twickenham when, along with France and Italy, they met to piece together an alternative to the Heineken Cup.

Of course the snubbing of the RFU is being used to have another swipe at the HEC, the French, and the Rabo Unions, and, as we have come to expect, the usual threats of doom associated with not bowing to the demands of PRL, but in addition the threat of an angry revenge seeking RFU. We're all doomed!

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
if the others refuse the ERC get the moral victory

The others didn't refuse. One of the others (PRL) stopped even recognising the headed paper coming from any written invites by a 'dead' ERC.  They didn't even recognise the ERC, nevermind anything about 'refusal'.

The other (RFU) knew very well a meeting was on, didn't need an invite and still didn't turn up because they didn't get an invite.  Was/is RFU a member of ERC or not?  Or had it too stopped recognising the legitmacy of the ERC and was waiting for an invite from a newly named body?

They could easily have showed up, invoked their right to be in attendance and sat down at the table.

that's a bit silly mate.

No point barging in on somewhere you are not wanted .

Doesn't seem to stop you, strokey?!

mystiroakey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

That's not what you said though. You said the PRL would have attended the lt meeting in which they came to their resolution had they been invited

Munchkin wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Notch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Sounds pretty on the money though

Is it really? If the RFU were invited, could they have provided English teams for ERC competitions next season?

That was the entire purpose of the meeting after all. If the PRL teams are not available for ERC competitions- and they've been making that clear for quite a long time- then the RFU can't provide any teams and whether they are there or not is something of a moot point.

the article isn't really about the RFU not being invited. Its more about the realities of a lesser ERC

It's all about the exclusion of the RFU. The whole article takes its lead from it!!  

read the article /headsgone

if you cant actually see past the obvious then maybe that is why you think its so bitter.,

Every key point is valid but only without the english in the ERC- nothing to do with being invited to the talks or not.

You may have missed the opening line of the article, mystir, and how that line continued throughout the article.

FOLLY OF OSTRACISING THE RFU

The Celtic unions may come to regret snubbing Twickenham when, along with France and Italy, they met to piece together an alternative to the Heineken Cup.

Of course the snubbing of the RFU is being used to have another swipe at the HEC, the French, and the Rabo Unions, and, as we have come to expect, the usual threats of doom associated with not bowing to the demands of PRL, but in addition the threat of an angry revenge seeking RFU. We're all doomed! 

i think it says clearly that you MAY have big issues with such a small scale ERC. And there surely is no on on here stupid enough to not agree with that main point of the article.

Standulstermen wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

That's not what you said though. You said the PRL would have attended the lt meeting in which they came to their resolution had they been invited

no i didnt, i didnt say anything of the sort

mystiroakey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

Because they knew what the key issues were and they knew they weren't going to compromise on them...maning they weren't going to hand over the keys to the Merc. It was never going to be an issue therefore why have meetings about it? PRL didn't like that attitude and created their own fix. And here we are - nothing fixed and a lot broken.

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

Because they knew what the key issues were and they knew they weren't going to compromise on them...maning they weren't going to hand over the keys to the Merc.  It was never going to be an issue therefore why have meetings about it?  PRL didn't like that attitude and created their own fix.  And here we are - nothing fixed and a lot broken.

and now because of that lack of democracy we have this problem and everyone is in a worse place for it

Mysti

You are a waste of my time. You claimed the erc weren't being inclusive when they didn't invite the PRL despite the fact the PRL didn't recognise the erc. Onto ignore you go.

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:
if the others refuse the ERC get the moral victory

The others didn't refuse. One of the others (PRL) stopped even recognising the headed paper coming from any written invites by a 'dead' ERC.  They didn't even recognise the ERC, nevermind anything about 'refusal'.

The other (RFU) knew very well a meeting was on, didn't need an invite and still didn't turn up because they didn't get an invite.  Was/is RFU a member of ERC or not?  Or had it too stopped recognising the legitmacy of the ERC and was waiting for an invite from a newly named body?

They could easily have showed up, invoked their right to be in attendance and sat down at the table.

that's a bit silly mate.

No point barging in on somewhere you are not wanted .

PRL sat at such an unwelcoming table for five or six years according to some here.

"mystir" - i think it says clearly that you MAY have big issues with such a small scale ERC. And there surely is no on on here stupid enough to not agree with that main point of the article."

MAY? If you read my comments again you will find that I mention implied threats. Goalposts - Moving...

Sometimes, mystir, it's not so much what you say, but how you say it that counts, or so some of my ex's would have me believe  

Standulstermen wrote:Mysti

You are a waste of my time. You claimed the erc weren't being inclusive when they didn't invite the PRL despite the fact the PRL didn't recognise the erc. Onto ignore you go.

you really are a weido arnt you.

You stated that I said they would turn up.

No i didnt say they would turn up.

I said if the ERC invited the PRL and they refused again(which they would have) they would win a moral victory.

Please ignore me. It will stop you making up ridiculous lies about other posters. Everyone can see what was said.

Standulstermen "That's not what you said though. You said the PRL would have attended the lt meeting in which they came to their resolution had they been invited"

no i didnt, i didnt say anything of the sort"

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Standulstermen wrote:The PRL refused to attend any erc meeting deeming it 'an irrelevance' after the meeting itself. To say otherwise is just plain wrong.

The rfu would have gone I agree but then you would need to ask the top brass in the other unions why they weren't invited. We can speculate 

A( they couldn't deliver the PRL teams anyway
B( they felt the rfu weren't in their corner
C( Camou had a better chance of getting the LNR on board without the rfu and PRL knowing his plan.
D( sheer bloody-minded ness

I honestly don't know. It still doesn't change the fact the PRL would never have been in attendance

the erc refused to hold meetings in regards to key issues for something like 4 years previous

Because they knew what the key issues were and they knew they weren't going to compromise on them...maning they weren't going to hand over the keys to the Merc.  It was never going to be an issue therefore why have meetings about it?  PRL didn't like that attitude and created their own fix.  And here we are - nothing fixed and a lot broken.

and now because of that lack of democracy we have this problem and everyone is in a worse place for it

If by everyone you include the PRL, then yes.  Who is now in the worst spot of all though?  ERC or PRL?  They'll brave it out - but it's not where they imagined themselves.  And may I say, there would be scant sysmpathy doing the rounds for Unions of the ERC now had the PRL won out.  One Mr McCafferty would be very vocal about a battle won and saying 'let's move on together now with a common voice - victors and defeated alike.....'
Now, the story is that we should all somehow feel guilty for pushing PRL into such a corner?  Well they walked wherever they walked freely. And they felt the walk would be a very lucrative one indeed for themselves.

We are all in a worse place- Its not a contest of who is in a worse 'worse' place.

We are all in a worse place

"you really are a weido arnt you."

mystir, do you know what a 'Weido' is? How do you know Stand is one? Hardly an insult

Munchkin wrote:"you really are a weido arnt you."

mystir, do you know what a 'Weido' is? How do you stand is one? Hardly an insult  

the dude has just put me on ignore because i Rightly told him i didnt say something that he accused me of

If that's not weird then what is?

Talk about a sensitive nut

mystiroakey wrote:

Munchkin wrote:"you really are a weido arnt you."

mystir, do you know what a 'Weido' is? How do you stand is one? Hardly an insult  

the dude has just put me on ignore because i Rightly told him i didnt say something that he accused me off

If that's not weird then what is?

Talk about a sensitive nut

But you didn't call him a weirdo. You called him a weido. Very different thing   

Yeah I spelled it wrong.

mystiroakey wrote:We are all in a worse place- Its not a contest of who is in a worse 'worse' place.

We are all in a worse place

Well according to the PRL their are levels that you can attribute to these words, mystir. They of course liked the Orwellian one of 'Equal' - as in everyone is but some are more equal than others - especially if they have more chimneys with satelite dishes on them

SO tell me SF- what have the PRL done for you to say you think they are more equal than others.

the PRL is a league and a league only. Its not the england rugby union. It is a group of 12 clubs that play in the English system.

The rabbo is also a league with 12 teams- but it believes it needs more of the euro pot and spaces because it incorporates more unions.

LNR had a meeting today and the majority of clubs decided to continue with the ERC/ H cup, effectively turning their back on the English RCC.

Wrong again Mystir

the rabo unions will accept less - just not as much less as the PRL want. We don't want more of the euro pot. Its the PRL that want more - from 24% to 33% share

TJ wrote:Wrong again Mystir

the rabo unions will accept less - just not as much less as the PRL want.  We don't want more of the euro pot.   Its the PRL that want more - from 24% to 33% share

whgat do you mean wrong again.

the PRL asked for that before, they didnt get it.

The ERC only came back with that offer once the PRL had said they are out of the ERC.

Its not trying to be 'more' equal to ask for an equal share is it. Are are you seriously that deluded!!


And others use 1984 to describe the PRl

You lot are the classic example of being told so long that 2+2=5 that you still think it does

mystiroakey wrote:SO tell me SF- what have the PRL done for you to say you think they are more equal than others.

the PRL is a league and a league only. Its not the england rugby union. It is a group of 12 clubs that play in the English system.

The rabbo is also a league with 12 teams- but it believes it needs more of the euro pot and spaces because it incorporates more unions.

The PRL is a group which represents the 12 clubs in the English system,the Rabo is a league and a league only.The Rabo is not an organistion that does anything other than run a league involving the teams that play in it whereas the PRL obviously does a lot more than just run the League.

The Scot/Welsh/Irish and Italian Unions do need more of the Euro pot than England alone since they use this money to fund the game in their respective countries.ERC money goes towards grass roots rugby in Ireland at least and without it the game will suffer.It looks like PRL think that the money generated by the pros should be exclusively kept for the pros and let the development of the game be damned.

^ as above-he believe's his league is more equal than others.

He thinks just because they do one thing with there money and the prl does something else with there's that there league deserves more!!

I know two rich people that work for very generous employers- one give some of his money to charity, the other spends it on whores!

Should the former employee get more money?

mystiroakey wrote:SO tell me SF- what have the PRL done for you to say you think they are more equal than others.

the PRL is a league and a league only. Its not the england rugby union. It is a group of 12 clubs that play in the English system.

The rabbo is also a league with 12 teams- but it believes it needs more of the euro pot and spaces because it incorporates more unions.

I'm saying they looked on it, and it was argued here passionately on their behalf, that they were more equal because they had more bums on seats that would watch them play in a Euro contest than little guys like Scotland, Italy and even the Welsh and Irish.

Now keep track here, this is important.  That argument wasn't used by Leicester claiming that more people want to watch them.  And it wasn't coming from Northampton Saints, and it wasn't coming from Saracens.  It was coming from their cover-company, the PRL, and it claimed an entire 'English' audience.  An 'English' audience wanted to watch English sides in Euro events and therefore, because of that reality, that's what should happen...as market values demanded that English sides hold more monetary weight than the Welsh, the Irish, the Scots or the Italians.

That may have been all true in the numbers..but it was not a great argument for 'meritocracy' - as if TV watching English people was all that was needed to keep at least 6 English sides in European competition, then there was certainly an argument that Irish fans wanted to see Irish representation, Welsh fans wanted Welsh representation and so on.  

If the argument was that what fans wanted should define who is part of the European event, then PRL should never have demanded that the Irish, the Welsh, the Scots or the Italians should sacrifice their auto places for the good of a competition that allowed England and France to retain theirs auto places

So I say, yes - the PRL did argue the case that some are equal but some (them) are more equal than others - and should wield more power and influence simply because more English people watch more English sides participating in European rugby.

But we've done and redone all that, Mystir.  I'm taking a break until the new year.  Have a good Christmas

Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

mystiroakey wrote:Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

You have a girlfriend?  

Well, I won't see you before the blasted day, Mystir!

Oh so that means I have to say Happy New year too!  Don't knock it, it's traditional...and my bum on the seat demands that it's included.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

You have a girlfriend?  

does everyone just hate me on here or something!

what is all this nonsense about.

Feick me one person talks for the other side in a balanced way and its like- GET HIM.. ATTACK HIM!

SecretFly wrote:Well, I won't see you before the blasted day, Mystir!

Oh so that means I have to say Happy New year too!  Don't knock it, it's traditional...and my bum on the seat demands that it's included.

why you leaving dude?

mystiroakey wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

You have a girlfriend?  

does everyone just hate me on here or something!

what is all this nonsense about.

Feick me one person talks for the other side in a balanced way and its like- GET HIM.. ATTACK HIM!

Sensitive soul eh? Perhaps that's what she sees in you

It's in the Times. It must be true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/french-clubs-to-remain-in-heineken-cup-next-season-1.1610574



France’s Top 14 sides are set to remain in the Heineken Cup next season after a meeting today in Orly, according to reports in French rugby newspaper Midi Olympique.

According to the paper’s website, the French clubs “have decided to disassociate from their English counterparts and remain under the umbrella of the ERC”.

The French National Rugby League convened a meeting today to discuss the draft proposals for a breakaway Rugby Champions Cup that would involve the top sides from England’s Premiership and the Top 14 leading a new European competition.

The decision followed a vote, although not all clubs are believed to have backed the decision to stay with the ERC.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

You have a girlfriend?  

does everyone just hate me on here or something!

what is all this nonsense about.

Feick me one person talks for the other side in a balanced way and its like- GET HIM.. ATTACK HIM!

Sensitive soul eh? Perhaps that's what she sees in you

you are the 4th person to just come on here and have a personal pop at me- not get involved in the subject just have a pop and all within 1 hour

Oi

Enough with the personal insults - at least attempt to be amusing if you must insult, childish attacks diminish you and make you look very silly

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well, I won't see you before the blasted day, Mystir!

Oh so that means I have to say Happy New year too!  Don't knock it, it's traditional...and my bum on the seat demands that it's included.

why you leaving dude?

Just taking a break to do some much needed work!!!.... and I mean truly concentrating on it this time without 606 buzzing in the background be back for the weeks leading up to........................... *gulp* 6N  

mystiroakey wrote:^ as above-he believe's his league is more equal than others.

He thinks just because they do one thing with there money and the prl does something else with there's that there league deserves more!!

I know two rich people that work for very generous employers- one give  some of his money to charity, the other spends it on whores!

Should the former employee get more money?

My league doesn't deserve more as I don't have a league,my Union deserves an equal amount.Scottish,Welsh,Irish and Italian rugby should not be getting 1/4 of what English rugby gets.

SecretFly wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well, I won't see you before the blasted day, Mystir!

Oh so that means I have to say Happy New year too!  Don't knock it, it's traditional...and my bum on the seat demands that it's included.

why you leaving dude?

Just taking a break to do some much needed work!!!.... and I mean truly concentrating on it this time without 606 buzzing in the background  be back for the weeks leading up to........................... *gulp* 6N  

I need to do it myself..

I normally do have a few months of a year anyway.

mystiroakey wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Yeah you two mate.

But it isn't Christmas yet dude!!

You sound like my gfirend who keeps stressing about presents

You have a girlfriend?  

does everyone just hate me on here or something!

what is all this nonsense about.

Feick me one person talks for the other side in a balanced way and its like- GET HIM.. ATTACK HIM!

Sensitive soul eh? Perhaps that's what she sees in you

you are the 4th person to just come on here and have a personal pop at me- not get involved in the subject just have a pop and all within 1 hour

You are all just going round in the same circles that you have been for the last 18 months.

Not like a bit of a joke then? I thought you were up for the banter. Only like it when you are dishing it out?

Thats the thing with banter if you cant take it don't dish it out

geoff999rugby wrote:Thats the thing with banter if you cant take it don't dish it out

In fairness it is hard to tell sometimes what is banter and what is not as you do not have tone of voice or facial gesture to work with.

I have no problem with anyone abusing me on a board. Have not and would never report anyone. It's only the internet.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:It's in the Times. It must be true.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/french-clubs-to-remain-in-heineken-cup-next-season-1.1610574



France’s Top 14 sides are set to remain in the Heineken Cup next season after a meeting today in Orly, according to reports in French rugby newspaper Midi Olympique.

According to the paper’s website, the French clubs “have decided to disassociate from their English counterparts and remain under the umbrella of the ERC”.

The French National Rugby League convened a meeting today to discuss the draft proposals for a breakaway Rugby Champions Cup that would involve the top sides from England’s Premiership and the Top 14 leading a new European competition.

The decision followed a vote, although not all clubs are believed to have backed the decision to stay with the ERC.

So it's not going to be Challenge Cup+ after all. That's good news.

Even better once we upgrade it with the English clubs. Just a shame when they come back aboard some of the smaller nations like Scotland and Italy will have less representation- hey, maybe we could up it to 24 teams? 6 groups of 4 and every nation gets at least two places?

Young Notch for Chairman of the new-ERC, with strokey as vice  

Notch wrote:Even better once we upgrade it with the English clubs. Just a shame when they come back aboard some of the smaller nations like Scotland and Italy will have less representation- hey, maybe we could up it to 24 teams? 6 groups of 4 and every nation gets at least two places?

I hope you mean Championship clubs. It would really good for them, a big step up from the B&I

The best news is- if all the French clubs are back under the ERC banner, we're rid of bloody Biarritz.

Serge Blanco has been scheming to use this crisis as to get his relegation-bound side into European Rugby by the backdoor since day 1. Hopefully it will be 8 French teams in on merit.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Thats the thing with banter if you cant take it don't dish it out

In fairness it is hard to tell sometimes what is banter and what is not as you do not have tone of voice or facial gesture to work with.

I have no problem with anyone abusing me on a board. Have not and would never report anyone. It's only the internet.

Yeah fair enough. I know, its sometimes I can feel like I am in t he middle of a load of celts trying to r*** me

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Young Notch for Chairman of the new-ERC, with strokey as vice  

 

HammerOfThunor wrote:I hope youo mean Championship clubs. It would really good for them, a big step up from the B&I

No I mean down the line when/if the English clubs figure out how to get out of their BT deal and back where they should be.

Notch wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Young Notch for Chairman of the new-ERC, with strokey as vice  

 

HammerOfThunor wrote:I hope youo mean Championship clubs. It would really good for them, a big step up from the B&I

No I mean down the line when/if the English clubs figure out how to get out of their BT deal and back where they should be.

Telling us where we should be? Expected to bow down before the crushing behomoth of the unions? Next they'll be taking all the players and just letting the clubs play them following their release from potential international duty. It's all about control. It would be the destruction of English rugby