Wales team to face Australia

First topic message reminder :

I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.


Gethin
Hibbard - player of the autumn for me
Rhodri Jones
AWJ
Ryan Jones - I think Evans will be picked but I think Ryan offers more in the loose and was one of few players who looked like he wanted to play today
Lydiate - needs to up his game as he has been quiet this autumn
Warburton - personally would like to see Tips start and Warbs at 6 but expect tho selection
Faletau - has had a fine autumn
Philipps - superb last week, could be his opportunity to get a club!
Biggar - for his kicking game and is less prone to getting isolated and turned over, i may have picked hook if available as i thought he was good today
North - A quiet autumn and ordinary v Tonga. Time to step up
S Williams - excellent footballer, his big opportunity and I am looking forward to him staking a real claim
O Williams - only real bonus from the Tonga game, looked solid
L Williams - is he fit…who else is there.
Halfpenny - involved in both tries, expect the POTY finalist to have a huge game

Owens
Lee
A Prop
Coombes - in reality i think tho swill be Ryan as i expect Gats to select Evans
Tipuric pref for him to start
R Williams
Priestland - I would def pick Hook if available
Beck - barely but who else is there

cheers mate, ill have a look

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/nov/25/northampton-george-north-wales-fine

Got to agree with you Bed one of the pundits said after the argetina game the one thing we learnt was that Warby is not an international 6 but to be honest i don,t think Gats will pick Tips it will be warby Lyds and Toby

1. Gethin Jenkins
2. Richard Hibbard
3. Rhodri Jones
4. Alun Wyn Jones
5. Ryan Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Toby Faletau
9. Mike Phillips
10. Dan Biggar
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Owen Williams
14. Alex Cuthbert (Liam Williams)
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Ken Owens
17. Ryan Bevington
18. Samson Lee
19. Ian Evans
20. Dan Lydiate
21. Rhodri Williams
22. Rhys Preistland
23. Ashley Beck

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

Evans was ok, not great

Ryan was excellent, and I think we can sacrifice some grunt to include him and hopefully gain an upper hand at the breakdown against Hooper.

Would be an easy call if Adam was fit, as it is, I don't think we will get much advantage from the scrum, but neither will they - so why not throw Ryan in there?

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

Evans was ok, not great

Ryan was excellent, and I think we can sacrifice some grunt to include him and hopefully gain an upper hand at the breakdown against Hooper.

Would be an easy call if Adam was fit, as it is, I don't think we will get much advantage from the scrum, but neither will they - so why not throw Ryan in there?

Fair point. I think they will go for a line out specialist in Ianto. But I agree that Ryan Jones would add something at the breakdown. I think its a shame we are losing Charteris.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

i would also go for Ryan

brings leadership and much more in the loose than Ianto.

McKenzie on Wales

"Warren's got Wales pretty well firm favourites for this one. So he's not worried about us," he claimed.
"They think they are [favourites] but we will be going there to win.
"We have got a good track record against them. Our guys have got a lot of experience about winning against Wales."
Wales, who are up to fifth place in the IRB world rankings ahead of France, have had some close, but losing encounters with the Wallabies in recent times.
Last season they lost at home 14-12 and in 2012 they lost a series in Australia 3-0 going down 20-19, 25-23 and 27-19.
"The breakdown area has been a really important part of those contests every time and I think Australia has probably handled that slightly better," said McKenzie.
"But what I have seen of Wales of late they have improved. There's a lot better application and detail. They have got a pretty complete game.
"They have got a really good playing style - a title-winning playing style
"These guys are Six Nations champions so it's a good scalp for us to chase.
"We have been ticking away. I think we have made a lot of progress.
"We have held the last two teams [Ireland and Scotland] to no tries so that tells me defence is starting to improve.
"We are quite pleased with our focus and momentum."

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

Evans was ok, not great

Ryan was excellent, and I think we can sacrifice some grunt to include him and hopefully gain an upper hand at the breakdown against Hooper.

Would be an easy call if Adam was fit, as it is, I don't think we will get much advantage from the scrum, but neither will they - so why not throw Ryan in there?

That's not a bad call actually, Ryan Jones at lock. But I don't see it happening.

mrzimmerman wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:rhodri    hibs    Jenkins
        Awj    Ian evans
warburton        tips
              faletau
       Philips
                   biggar
     north
                               s Williams
                                                 beck
                                                            cuthbert
                             halfpenny

That's EXACTLY the team I'd choose. (with the props on the correct sides mind)

  its to confuse the enemy  

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

wales606 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:
5. Ryan Jones

19. Ian Evans

I thought Ian Evans played really well on friday, wold he not be a better inclusion at lock than Ryan Jones?

Evans was ok, not great

Ryan was excellent, and I think we can sacrifice some grunt to include him and hopefully gain an upper hand at the breakdown against Hooper.

Would be an easy call if Adam was fit, as it is, I don't think we will get much advantage from the scrum, but neither will they - so why not throw Ryan in there?

That's not a bad call actually, Ryan Jones at lock. But I don't see it happening.

It would weaken our line out by omitting Evans.

We have been playing some good defensive line outs recently and we will need to be able to attack The Aussies at the set piece, cut off their ball.

The decision that really effects the breakdown is whether we select Tipuric, Warburton, Faletau, or another combination including Lydiate or Ryan Jones.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

mrzimmerman wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:rhodri    hibs    Jenkins
        Awj    Ian evans
warburton        tips
              faletau
       Philips
                   biggar
     north
                               s Williams
                                                 beck
                                                            cuthbert
                             halfpenny

That's EXACTLY the team I'd choose. (with the props on the correct sides mind)

                  its to confuse the enemy  

Duly noted.  

I saw McKenzie's animated response to some question today.
Anyone know what that was all about? Something about missing/injured players?

Linebreaker wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

mrzimmerman wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:rhodri    hibs    Jenkins
        Awj    Ian evans
warburton        tips
              faletau
       Philips
                   biggar
     north
                               s Williams
                                                 beck
                                                            cuthbert
                             halfpenny

That's EXACTLY the team I'd choose. (with the props on the correct sides mind)

                  its to confuse the enemy  

Duly noted.  

I saw McKenzie's animated response to some question today.
Anyone know what that was all about? Something about missing/injured players?

He usually seems so calm and collected...?

maestegmafia wrote:

Linebreaker wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:

mrzimmerman wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:rhodri    hibs    Jenkins
        Awj    Ian evans
warburton        tips
              faletau
       Philips
                   biggar
     north
                               s Williams
                                                 beck
                                                            cuthbert
                             halfpenny

That's EXACTLY the team I'd choose. (with the props on the correct sides mind)

                  its to confuse the enemy  

Duly noted.  

I saw McKenzie's animated response to some question today.
Anyone know what that was all about? Something about missing/injured players?

He usually seems so calm and collected...?

  didnt he say Wales was favorites . how can we be favorites when we constantly lose to you and now we lost loads of players through injury and players going back to clubs .

Shaun Edwards interview.

Shaun Edwards has told Wales they must stop Wallabies trio Israel Folau, Quade Cooper and Will Genia hoodoo on Saturday. if they want to break their Australia

Folau has terrorised opposition defences since converting from rugby league with nine tries in 14 Tests this year and his dual with George North was one of the highlights of the Lions series last summer.

Edwards, a dual-code international himself, admitted he was unsurprised by Folau’s stunning success in union.

“I have known about him probably a lot longer than most of you guys,” said the Wales defence coach.

“He’s a pretty special athlete and as soon as I heard he was going to come to rugby union, I knew we were going to get an incredible athlete and an incredible player.

“His aerial skills, his footwork and his speed - I could go on for ever about his talents.

“We have to try to shut him down, and that’s not easy.”



Folau has since seamlessly switched to full-back from the wing and Edwards admitted Wales’ kicking game will have to be spot on this weekend.

“We always work very hard on the kicking side of the game and reloading the correct people to be contesting for the ball to negate the opposition’s aerial threats,” said Edwards.

“We have to do a lot of work thinking about Israel because he’s a talented player.

“He’s a bit special and we will be doing work to try to counteract that in a legal manner.

“There is going to be a one-on-one contest. That’s why we work so much on our aerial skills.

“We weren’t great on it in the first game against South Africa but I think we’ve improved steadily since then because of the work put in by Neil Jenkins.”

Folau proved the difference against Scotland last week where he scored one of the two tries created by Cooper.

The maverick playmaker is back in the fold under new coach Ewen McKenzie after being frozen out by previous boss Robbie Deans.




“Quade’s a player I have huge respect for,” said Edwards.

“He’s a quality rugby player who’s incredibly creative and seems to be better now than when he burst on the scene.

“He used to have the tag of being an individual but he’s a great team player now.

“He’s maturing with age and is a player who will take up a lot of my time thinking over the next few days because we do have to counteract him and the options that come off him.

“For all defence coaches who come up against Australia, a big part of their week will be spent thinking about counteracting Quade.

“His link with Genia, as well, is a huge part of their offence because the two half-backs have a great understanding between each other.”

Warren Gatland’s Wales have lost to Australia on six occasions in the last two years with the New Zealander suffering 21 defeats in 22 matches since taking over in 2008 against the Wallabies, Springboks and All Blacks.

Edwards admitted it is time that changed.

“We have to play for 80 minutes, and mentally, physically and tactically we have to be absolutely perfect,” said Edwards.

“We cannot switch off for one second because it happened to us in Melbourne, Sydney and in the last game we played against in Cardiff 12 months ago.

“The quality of opponents we are playing against means that any crack in any part of the game will be exploited.”

Some players have now experienced beating Australia with 10 Welsh Lions Test starters in the final deciding victory in Sydney last summer.

“I haven’t spoken to them too much about it, but they will have that confidence,” said Edwards.

“But they all realise that was with the Lions and this is with Wales.

“This is a game everyone has been waiting for.

“South Africa was a massive game against a world-class opponent, and I thought we did exceedingly well in that game despite the defeat.

“But I think at the back of the mind, everyone realises that Wales and Australia have been brilliant games recently, so close, so competitive, a high standard of rugby.

“We are under no illusions that it’s going to be a real high quality Test match.

“But I think we are in better shape, physically, than we were last year. So roll on Saturday.”

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:    didnt he say Wales are favourites. How can we be favourites when we constantly lose to you and now we have lost loads of players through injury and players going back to clubs .

Not just that, Australia are ranked third we are fifth. They are getting better every game. Wales have a lot on their hands. This is a very good Australian team.

'Folau has terrorised opposition defences since converting from rugby league with nine tries in 14 Tests this year and his dual with George North was one of the highlights of the Lions series last summer.'

Who wrote this?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:'Folau has terrorised opposition defences since converting from rugby league with nine tries in 14 Tests this year and his dual with George North was one of the highlights of the Lions series last summer.'

Who wrote this?

G Griffiths of the WM

I knew it would be the Fail.

Scatch wrote:I don't think anyone put their hands up today except Hook and O Williams
Several were dismal and if i see L Williams on the bench i will be very disappointed. Glad Charteris has gone back as he is off form.

Is this a serious assessment of last Fridays Wales v Tongan match?

Hook put his hand up!.......... against a poor Tongan team, devoid of enterprise, and providing so much time and space was the ideal opportunity for Hook to rack up a trawlerful of creative try scoring opportunities. Never happened

Quite a few players put their hands up IMHO, most notably Charteris who in anybody else's was close to MOTM, Ken Owens, Rhodri Jones, and Owen Williams. Personally I thought Ryan Jones yet again put in a consummate back row and captains MOTM performance. How Wales constantly ignore starting this guy at 8 is beyond me.

Unfortunately as Charteris is back in France I think Ryan will be on the bench to cover 5,6,8 positions.

If Australia play the fast mobile but also brutal back row

8 Ben McCalman
7 Michael Hooper
6 Ben Mowen    

Who matched the on fire NZ trio Liam Messam, Sam Cane, Kieran Read for most of the match in October, then you better have a chopper of a player who tackles all day. In my mind you have to negate the brilliant openside Hooper, hence I would select this Welsh back row to start

8 Faletau (If Charteris was available I would have started Ryan Jones at 8)
7 Warburton
6 Lydiate

FHF - stop tormenting yourself man! Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years. Nobody's claiming anything more. His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

It'll be one and lost at the breakdown as not much between the teams - I see a last minute Aus. win again as Wales lose their composure and start chasing shadows in the last couple of minutes  

I can see a good Wallabies win. I think they've turned a corner on this tour and we've missed our best chance(s) of beating them. Plus, they'll be motivated by our talk of 'expecting' to win.

Team is out.
1/2p, Cuthbert, Williams, Williams, North, Biggar, Phillips, Geth, Hibbard, Rhodri JOnes, AWJ, Ian Evans, Lydiate, Warbs, Faletau

Casartelli wrote:FHF - stop tormenting yourself man!  Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years.  Nobody's claiming anything more.  His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

Cas
Don't be silly,

Firstly the OP is stating (that apart from Owen Williams) Hook was the only welsh player who put his hand up  . Secondly solid and unspectacular against one of the weaker teams is not what Wales are looking for. Lastly he is playing high quality rugby in a quality league and a few times at 10, with his natural instinctive ball skills, and 73 cap experience.... then surely the excuse of not stating a test match should bare little or no relevance.

Other than centre and tighthead tat's pretty much (Gatland's) first choice isn't it?

Wales team to face Australia:

Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Owen Williams (Cardiff Blues), Scott Williams (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Unattached), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, CAPT), Toby Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Rhodri Williams (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Good 23 indeed, excellent first 15 and really strong bench

Yes, although a couple of them are being held together with bits of string.  

Happy enough with that.

Yeah, I think that's about the strongest team he could have picked. I like to see Tipuric on the field, but as a matter of balance, that's probably the right back row combo.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:FHF - stop tormenting yourself man!  Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years.  Nobody's claiming anything more.  His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

Cas
Don't be silly,

Firstly the OP is stating (that apart from Owen Williams) Hook was the only welsh player who put his hand up  . Secondly solid and unspectacular against one of the weaker teams is not what Wales are looking for. Lastly he is playing high quality rugby in a quality league and a few times at 10, with his natural instinctive ball skills, and 73 cap experience.... then surely the excuse of not stating a test match should bare little or no relevance.

Maybe the OP meant that he 'put his hand up' in that Hook played a conservative gameplan equally as well as Biggar and Priestland (well, much better than Priestland in that Hook can actually punt a ball) and that is all Gatland ever wants at 10.

It's all academic now - Gatland seems set on rotating Biggar and Priestland, with Hook providing bench cover, unless injuries change things.

The return of Cuthbert scares me, hes a bit iffy in defense when hes 100%, with Cooper spinning the ball wide very well recently and Cummins/Folau, that worries me and think he could be the link that gets taken apart ouside Owen Williams....

Would rather have seen Liam Williams start and have Beck on the bench, Owen Williams can cover wing.

Otherwise Im pretty happy, R Jones/Tiperic need to get some decent gametime in he secondhalf for me. (dont get me wrong, I'm of course hoping Cuthbert proves me to be but a fool)

Im happy with that side . lets hope the Williams in centre have a stormer

Comfort wrote:The return of Cuthbert scares me, hes a bit iffy in defense when hes 100%, with Cooper spinning the ball wide very well recently and Cummins/Folau, that worries me and think he could be the link that gets taken apart ouside Owen Williams....

Would rather have seen Liam Williams start and have Beck on the bench, Owen Williams can cover wing.

Otherwise Im pretty happy, R Jones/Tiperic need to get some decent gametime in he secondhalf for me. (dont get me wrong, I'm of course hoping Cuthbert proves me to be but a fool)

If Cuthbert is fit, he had to start - he is our top try scorer at the moment, I would say he is the second most important part of our attacking game, after JD2

wales, dont get me wrong, I fully appreciate his attacking abilities, its the defense I'm woried about as hes not going to be 100% and he'll have the rookie Owen Williams inside him, that 13 channel is extremely important to the rush defence and Folau (especially) targets it well.

Thats our weak link imo.

wales606 wrote:

Comfort wrote:The return of Cuthbert scares me, hes a bit iffy in defense when hes 100%, with Cooper spinning the ball wide very well recently and Cummins/Folau, that worries me and think he could be the link that gets taken apart ouside Owen Williams....

Would rather have seen Liam Williams start and have Beck on the bench, Owen Williams can cover wing.

Otherwise Im pretty happy, R Jones/Tiperic need to get some decent gametime in he secondhalf for me. (dont get me wrong, I'm of course hoping Cuthbert proves me to be but a fool)

If Cuthbert is fit, he had to start - he is our top try scorer at the moment, I would say he is the second most important part of our attacking game, after JD2

Agreed 606 .... Comfort how can you be scared by the return of our most prolifict try scorer.... we are not going to nil Australia, they will score and we need to score more. Cuthbert's defence is improving and his club understanding with Halfpenny helps

I think Cuthbert is a potent attacking player for Wales, he runs good lines and has great pace and power. He does have some lapses in defence but I think he'll manage

Leave it to the Welsh to have the last game! Wot showboaters!

For the 3rd time, not woried about his attacking prowess, hes a try scoring machine, but he has iffy defensive positioning when hes 100% and has JD2 (an excellent defensive 13 for the rush defence) inside him helping him out.

So with him returning (clearly not going to be 100%) and Owen williams (a rookie at this level) inside him, its a weak link for our defense.

I've just realised that Lloyd Williams isn't on the bench. A typo, surely?!

Comfort wrote:For the  3rd time, not woried about his attacking prowess, hes a try scoring machine, but he has iffy defensive positioning when hes 100% and has JD2 (an excellent defensive 13 for the rush defence) inside him helping him out.

So with him returning (clearly not going to be 100%) and Owen williams (a rookie at this level) inside him, its a weak link for our defense.

To be honest I am with you on this. Cuthbert is a very good attacking player, but hasn't ever really filled me with confidence defensively. He did seem to be improving last season though. Giving that he is returning from injury etc, I think I would have preferred him to be on the bench, to come on in the second half, rather than starting, especially as Australia are a very good attacking team and as you say will be looking at him, and an international new boy, as potential holes in our defensive line.

The only other thing I may have been tempted to do would be swap Lydiate and Tips around to give more of a presence at the breakdown, but I can understand why Gats has gone for Lydiate starting, as there will be no breakdown if we can't get the buggers to ground first.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I've just realised that Lloyd Williams isn't on the bench. A typo, surely?!

Rhodri Williams

Finally!

hope we come off the blocks running . high intensity for 80 minutes . no one mentioned it but who the ref

hope we come off the blocks running . high intensity for 80 minutes . no one mentioned it but who the ref

Casartelli wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:

Casartelli wrote:FHF - stop tormenting yourself man!  Hook isn't available for selection so it's not relevant.

He had a solid, if unspectacular game, for a player that hadn't started a test in over 2 years.  Nobody's claiming anything more.  His average rating in the press was around 7, with a few comments that his long passing off both hands was excellent.

Cas
Don't be silly,

Firstly the OP is stating (that apart from Owen Williams) Hook was the only welsh player who put his hand up  . Secondly solid and unspectacular against one of the weaker teams is not what Wales are looking for. Lastly he is playing high quality rugby in a quality league and a few times at 10, with his natural instinctive ball skills, and 73 cap experience.... then surely the excuse of not stating a test match should bare little or no relevance.

Maybe the OP meant that he 'put his hand up' in that Hook played a conservative gameplan equally as well as Biggar and Priestland (well, much better than Priestland in that Hook can actually punt a ball) and that is all Gatland ever wants at 10.

It's all academic now - Gatland seems set on rotating Biggar and Priestland, with Hook providing bench cover, unless injuries change things.

If you mean close to every one of his "punts" finding a Tongan in space and finding the advantage given away, then you are right, I think Biggar has a longer distance and Priestland not far behind but at least finds the competitive line and space.

As you said all academic as Biggar and Priestland are the guys who are putting their hands up now

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Finally!

Is his Dad higher up in the Jobs for our Boys drinking club ?  

The fly half debate is an interesting one. I believe that we may have beaten South Africa if Biggar had started, and we would have beaten Argentina by more if Rhys was playing. Sort of horses for courses thing. I think for this game having Priest on the bench and Biggar starting is a good idea. Dan is the more solid plodding type that will put the team into the Aussie half and tackle pretty much everything that comes at him, but then we can bring on Rhys to spark off a running game, when the Aussies have gotten used to the ball being thumped down field every chance.

unfortunately we were always going to be a notch down defensively when we lost roberts and jd2,we have to build depth so it's a great opportunity for the likes of owen williams/cory allen to get international experience.also pleased rhodri williams is on the bench imo he will be our starting s half for the next world cup, this is a good enough team to win saturday, if we show the same passion as the irish recently we will win by +7