Adam Booth: Doesnt cut it IMO

After watching AA this weekend it struck me that his trainer was not giving him good advice in the corner, now dont get me wrong ultimatley its down to the fighter. But all Wegner says is 'throw arthur throw' THROW WHAT! I thought it was clear AA should of been throwing straight sharp punches as he did in first 2 rounds to drive Ward back and win some rounds (altho by the ridiculous 120-108 card it may not of mattered)

So then i thought about Adam Booth and the lack of progress of late of groves (whoi personally i hope smashes horse face) I remember seeifn Booth say to Groves in the Anderson fight, your job is to be stoic?? and giving him some very average advise in between rounds otherwise. Also Groves seems to be fighting more and more like Haye,circling then trying to explode on opponents. Only difference is he is not Haye. Personally i think Booth is a very poor trainer. Unlike say Mckracken who has shown what a great impact a top trainer can have on a fighter even in whent he fighter is seasoned.Mckracked always seems to know what to say in there.

What are your thoughts on Booth?

Booth wasn't at fault in the Anderson fight. Groves failed to listen to his advice which was fairly sound to be honest.

"Don't stand and trade/Don't go to war" etc. All fairly sensible stuff but the arrogance of youth will always over-ride commonsense...especially coming from someone older.

The real test is whether or not Groves has learned from that fight...like Haye did after Thompson. Groves could have come unstuck and if that wasn't a wake up call for him then he's going to struggle with DeGale.

Personally, I'd love to see DeGale get beaten but I'm not convinced Groves has the tools to do it. His heart isn't in question but I think he may just come up short against the better technician but I'm hoping that's not the case.

what about the

your job is to be stoic comments he makes. MAybe your right Dave, but i dont see Groves learning too much at a stage in his career that he should be improving.

But this weekend this thew only fight that matters so hopefully we will see some improvement.s I think he will erform better against degale especially with all the hype

Think there comes a stage with some fighters where the sport becomes about attitude and maturity as much as in-ring ability.

We hear about young guys being "old-manned" out of a fight (hopkins being the current master of this) but we don't see THAT many fighters who have an old head on young shoulders.

Whilst Groves may not possess DeGale's ability, this fight might come down to maturity and if so, I believe Groves has the edge on DeGale by some margin. However, whether or not that will be enough, remains to be seen.

I think that booth is a good corner man in that he offers calming rational advice between rounds

His fighters lack any inside game though. People like ward and degale have inside skills that I don't see groves developing

Jimmythebullet wrote:I think that booth is a good corner man in that he offers calming rational advice between rounds

His fighters lack any inside game though. People like ward and degale have inside skills that I don't see groves developing

Agreed. Ward's inside game is to hold. Good tactic.

I agree that booth gives sound and rational advice between rounds, he seems to keep a level head where other trainers might start effing and blinding. He's also quite meticulous in his game plans. The fact groves and a rough time with Anderson is down to groves NOT following booths advice - he started trading but groves problem is he's too easy to hit and is always gonna be vulnerable in a trade off. The problem I have with the booth-groves partnership is the way groves has started trying to fight like haye - circling, keeping his left hand low and attacking in powerful bursts. I don't think groves has the speed, reflexes or heavy enough hands to fight this way (unlike haye). Groves needs to adopt more of a boxer-puncher technique, protect himself with a higher guard and throw the meaty punches from up close.

I suspect degale could make groves look a bit silly as he's a much slicker technician and to me groves has a lit more learning to do before he finds the right formula in his pro career, whereas degale fights with a style that he makes effective already.

Groves has been sparring with Dirrell which will certainly be good preparation. Apparently he's more than held his own but I agree they need to get Groves to fight his own fight and not be a carbon copy of Haye

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:I agree that booth gives sound and rational advice between rounds, he seems to keep a level head where other trainers might start effing and blinding. He's also quite meticulous in his game plans. The fact groves and a rough time with Anderson is down to groves NOT following booths advice - he started trading but groves problem is he's too easy to hit and is always gonna be vulnerable in a trade off. The problem I have with the booth-groves partnership is the way groves has started trying to fight like haye - circling, keeping his left hand low and attacking in powerful bursts. I don't think groves has the speed, reflexes or heavy enough hands to fight this way (unlike haye). Groves needs to adopt more of a boxer-puncher technique, protect himself with a higher guard and throw the meaty punches from up close.

I suspect degale could make groves look a bit silly as he's a much slicker technician and to me groves has a lit more learning to do before he finds the right formula in his pro career, whereas degale fights with a style that he makes effective already.

Agree, whilst I think he's quite smug and his ego has become inflated of late, he seems to know his stuff and has a mature head when it come to training.

There is only so much a trainer can do and powerless if fighter refuses to follow a game plan.

Hard to really judge Booth as you tend to get the impression that Haye's achievements are more down to his natural talent, as opposed to Booth's inspired methods.
I feel that Groves will be the real test for Booth. It will be interesting to see how Saint George develops over the next few years. Only than can we properly assess Booth overall as a boxing trainer.
One thing I would say, is that he's good from a fitness perspective at getting his fighters in top condition and in fighting shape.

I've often been critical of Booth's multi-roles. Trainer, Manager, Negotiator and Promoter - seems far too much.

WelshDevilRob wrote:I've often been critical of Booth's multi-roles. Trainer, Manager, Negotiator and Promoter - seems far too much.

To be fair it hasn't done David Haye any harm though and cuts down on so many payments coming off the purses he earns saving a bit of cash.

prettyboykev wrote:

WelshDevilRob wrote:I've often been critical of Booth's multi-roles. Trainer, Manager, Negotiator and Promoter - seems far too much.

To be fair it hasn't done David Haye any harm though and cuts down on so many payments coming off the purses he earns saving a bit of cash.

I preferred it when Frank Maloney was onboard. Booth is kind of learning on the job while Maloney has plenty of experience. But, Yeah your right it probably saves Haye some money.

I find Booth very average to be honest, for someone with such a big mouth i find him just a motivator, Haye is talented, apart from Haye he HASNT trained anyone good imo, Anthony Extremist Small used to be trained by Booth, he had poor, poor technique, footwork, always off balance and a bag of nerves in the ring. He trains Groves who is hype imo.

Agreed southpaw, to an extent

Think he's lucky with Haye and Groves as they're supreme athletes in terms of reaching the heights of their sport (you don't win two ABAs without being that good in the case of Groves etc). Groves needs more technical work and i don't think Booth is the man to correct his wrongs, whereas on the other hand Haye was a more rounded fighter yet had issues with going head crazy in the ring, which is where i think Booth excels at personally i.e. getting inside his fighters head.

Shame he couldn't get inside Small's head and make it implode but i guess you can't win'em all eh!

i agree steven89

he is calm and motivating and fairly articulate in a world that is not always so. But as a actual trainer i am not sure, look how bad groves has looked and how similar to haye he was in anderson fight or tried to be. put booth up next to mckkracken for example,

Not sure McCracken is "all that" either. He failed to curb Howard Eastman's natural inclination towards dawdling and for the longest time, failed to get Froch to stick to a gameplan. Against Pascal he stood and traded when it was clear he was better suited to boxing at range. Where was McCracken then? Droning on at Froch in monotone failing to inspire anything other than narcolepsy

Basically, it's only since Froch put on that excellent showing against Abraham (whose since gone on to prove against Ward he's not up to scratch at SM) that people seem to think McCracken is some kind of training god.

i think Mckracken has always given Froch a 30 something fighter in all the fights you mention since Pascal and much more set in his ways the 'right advise' whether he followed it or not. Against Taylor and yes against AA. I was not one saying Mckracken was not good untilt he AA fght

Groves is young and has been getting worse in last two fights, Booth telling him be stoic? Walking back in straight lines, nt getting himself off the ropes. I didnt see Anything from Booth other than your slugging with a slugger..

Any change of opinion?

well his tactics were spot on last night ,

Seanusarrilius wrote:After watching AA this weekend it struck me that his trainer was not giving him good advice in the corner, now dont get me wrong ultimatley its down to the fighter. But all Wegner says is 'throw arthur throw' THROW WHAT! I thought it was clear AA should of been throwing straight sharp punches as he did in first 2 rounds to drive Ward back and win some rounds (altho by the ridiculous 120-108 card it may not of mattered)

So then i thought about Adam Booth and the lack of progress of late of groves (whoi personally i hope smashes horse face) I remember seeifn Booth say to Groves in the Anderson fight, your job is to be stoic?? and giving him some very average advise in between rounds otherwise. Also Groves seems to be fighting more and more like Haye,circling then trying to explode on opponents. Only difference is he is not Haye. Personally i think Booth is a very poor trainer. Unlike say Mckracken who has shown what a great impact a top trainer can have on a fighter even in whent he fighter is seasoned.Mckracked always seems to know what to say in there.

What are your thoughts on Booth?

Very good trainer and tactician, set out a good game plan, prepares his fighters well, gets them good sparing, great trainer/manager.

Interesting to hear Steve Bunce saying last night that you have to give Booth massive credit for how he has handled Groves.
Although when Booth said,"This is the biggest thing that I have achieved in boxing!", I did think, well, he hasn't really done very much so far.

I'm a bit more confident about Haye's chances in July after last night's performance from Groves. Booth did very well.

Eat your words?

I'm warming to Booth. Was very good in the corner last night. Can't remember which round it was when he calmly kept on asking Groves "George why are you on the ropes", until Groves had to take it in and come up with a reply.

Booth has unbelievable powers, just check out Wiki and the last sentence about him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Booth

Valero's Conscience wrote:Booth has unbelievable powers, just check out Wiki and the last sentence about him!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Booth

Ahahahahahahah, love a bit of wiki hacking!

In all seriousness though, Booth is the man responsible for Groves' complete change in gameplan. Didn't think anyone thought he'd try (let alone succeed in) to outbox the boxer.

Be very interesting to see who they opt for next.

Although when Booth said,"This is the biggest thing that I have achieved in boxing!", I did think, well, he hasn't really done very much so far.
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I agree, he's guided to Haye to the Undisputed CW title, a portion of the HW title and is one the verge of THE biggest HW fight for a decade.

Yup, he's been nowt but a wide eyed chancer up until this weekend.

Yeah bad article that may haunt you Seanusarrillius.

And what is Stoic??

All I could find was this:

Stoic a member of an ancient Greek school of philosophy that asserted that happiness can only be achieved by accepting life's ups and downs as the products of unalterable destiny. The school was founded around 308 bc by Zeno.

Is this what Booth asked Groves to be during the Anderson fight?

Mad, and a great thinker that Mr Booth!!

From Wikipedia : Stoicism was a school of philosophy founded in the early 3rd century BC. The Stoics believed that destructive emotions resulted from errors in judgment, and that a sage, or person of "moral and intellectual perfection," would not suffer such emotions.

So (if Seanusarrilius heard correctly) I guess he meant that you have to keep your cool, and don't get worked up, even if things aren't necessarily going your way.

I've always been impressed with Adam Booth.

Keeps a very cool head, gets the best of Warren (which is funny) and seems to tell his fighters sensible stuff. Obviously is big on the mental side of things but I like his approach.

We'll see the big test for Dave Haye against Wlad.

Booth seems to be in to the mental side of the sport in a big way, from the snips Sky showed he was very calm in Groves' corner.

prettyboykev wrote:Booth seems to be in to the mental side of the sport in a big way, from the snips Sky showed he was very calm in Groves' corner.

Even when the going was going tough when Degale was starting to land and hurt Groves Booth stayed calm in the corner. Groves corner had a relaxed approach while Degales corner just seemed to shout at him and not give him calm and collected advice.

i feel a bit silly now having posted this article haha

Haha, we have all done it, Sean.

Doesn't cut it...

Haye is bordering/if not already p4p top 10.............

Groves has just beaten the supposed next big thing.....

Think you're being a bit harsh.

Booth and McCracken could do great things with british boxing if they have the desire to

Im still reserving judgement.

Think people are getting a little carried away by Booth after the weekend.

At the end of the day it was a largely domestic level possibly euro level fight between two guys that are probably not a million miles apart.

At the end of the day it was a largely domestic level possibly euro level fight between two guys that are probably not a million miles apart.
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Well, if you'd read the papers and logged onto this interweb thing, you'd be justified in thinking that DeGale was going to beat Groves to death inside a minute.

Given people's perception of Groves, the way he fought and was able to stick to the gameplan and not get rattled by DeGale's shoulders, head, elbows and low blows, sure Booth deserves SOME credit at least.

When a trainer's fighters are winning, they're a genius. But that's quickly forgotten when they suffer a couple of losses.

Remember Enzo Calzaghe? Ring Magazine trainer of the year...

DAVE667 wrote:At the end of the day it was a largely domestic level possibly euro level fight between two guys that are probably not a million miles apart.
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Well, if you'd read the papers and logged onto this interweb thing, you'd be justified in thinking that DeGale was going to beat Groves to death inside a minute.

Given people's perception of Groves, the way he fought and was able to stick to the gameplan and not get rattled by DeGale's shoulders, head, elbows and low blows, sure Booth deserves SOME credit at least.

I didnt say he deseves no credit, I just dont think this fight was the massive difference in class that was being touted. Even the context of the fight means you can only afford base so much on it because both guys are still well in the developmental phase, relative novices and far from the finished article.

Easy to say in hindsight...

manos de piedra wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:At the end of the day it was a largely domestic level possibly euro level fight between two guys that are probably not a million miles apart.
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Well, if you'd read the papers and logged onto this interweb thing, you'd be justified in thinking that DeGale was going to beat Groves to death inside a minute.

Given people's perception of Groves, the way he fought and was able to stick to the gameplan and not get rattled by DeGale's shoulders, head, elbows and low blows, sure Booth deserves SOME credit at least.

I didnt say he deseves no credit, I just dont think this fight was the massive difference in class that was being touted. Even the context of the fight means you can only afford base so much on it because both guys are still well in the developmental phase, relative novices and far from the finished article.

Not having a go at you in particular but since the outcome, there's been a number of people who've come out of the woodwork and suggested that it was always going to be a close fight...despite their previous comments re DeGale's superiority. Wonder how many of the 30 odd boxing scribes who picked DeGale in Boxing Monthly's poll will now say they knew all along it was a "pick 'em"

The bookies odds indicated DeGale was a heavy favourite but I put that down to the stae they are at career wise. DeGale had the gold medal and had looked better overall than Groves over the ten odd fights. But when you have to guys at that stage in their careers its hard to say. Most of what there was to tangibly go on favoured DeGale.

I though DeGale would outpoint Groves but I certainly didnt think the fight would be one sided. Especially as I am not convinced DeGale is a big hitter so I couldnt understand where the arguments for a DeGale early knock outs were coming from.

I dont think the fight was overly surprising and a narrow decision for either fighter would not have shocked me. I would have been far more surprised by an easy DeGale win or knock out.