Indian domestic season 2013/14

First topic message reminder :

This kicks off with the NKP Salve Challenger Trophy on the 26th.  

Nadeem is a good option in the shorter formats.

I don't think as highly of Mishra as KPF does but agree that he deserves a place in shorter formats. Not too sure about him in Tests though.

reports says Zaheer is getting close to his best although he took only a wicket today...Nayar has not hurt his chances by picking 4 in addtion to his consisten runs for India-a in every outing he has made.

West Indies A bowled for 268, 4 wickets for Nayar, 3 for Kulkarni. A wicket each for Zaheer, Ishwar Pandey and Bhargav Bhatt.
Cricinfo reported that Zaheer showed greater intensity and caused more trouble to the batsman than he managed in the previous game. Hopefully the engine is warming up well.
Gautam Gambhir managed to see off the few remaining overs of the day together with VA Jagadeesh, he'd need a big innings and need it soon to remain in the selectorial frame.

Gambhir gets a hundred......actually a 123...and Pujara is on the threshold of a hundred.

Is this enough to Bring Gambhir back......??

IMO they have to persists with Vijay based on his good show in India's last test matches against Aus...for the sake of consistency.....but keep Gambhir as the first in line as a reserve opener

sehwag goes for 38.....these 20s and 30s won't cut it for Sehwag.

Nayar in.....and he has made EVERY opportunity this season count.......if he delivers again here.....he will come in recoking for a middle order berth...given that selectors and pwoers want to put a Mumbai batsman to replace Tendulkar.....

so Rohit, Rahane and Nayar are all in contention.

of the 3 Nayar is my preference...two years back he was in great nick.....played an ODI and then got injured. He is in the prime form of life......and oen of the few batsmen in India who bowl seam up as change,,,and he carries all the grace of a left hander.

Hope he does a big fifty atleast here

India A ended the day at 334-3. Skipper Cheteshwar Pujara is unbeaten on 139, finding form after a couple of games where he couldn't get going.
Struggling opener Gautam Gambhir scored a ton. Virender Sehwag scored a nothing sort of 38 that doesn't do his case any good.

KP_fan wrote:Gambhir gets a hundred......actually a 123...and Pujara is on the threshold of a hundred.

Is this enough to Bring Gambhir back......??

IMO they have to persists with Vijay based on his good show in India's last test matches against Aus...for the sake of consistency.....but keep Gambhir as the first in line as a reserve opener

KPF, I don't think this one knock should open the doors for Gambhir. He has to do it consistently, has to maintain the same levels of intensity and fight his way back if at all he has to. And as you said, Vijay has done enough to earn a fair run in the side, Gambhir did nothing for the last 3 years though overall he's a quality player. But Gambhir has to rediscover himself, and this is just the start.
Reports were that Gauti was back to his intense self before this game. For the last 3 years up to his dropping, he had lost a lot of that intensity that made him such a good player. He got too comfortable, and even when there were signs of concerns, rather than going back to his tried and tested ways, he became far too stubborn, and lived in a world of denial . Even one test prior to their separation as an opening partnership, Gambhir insisted that he and Sehwag were the best opening options that India had, and that his 30s and 40s were making a contribution to team India, forgetting that the team was losing even at home.
Gambhir can be considered for the South Africa tour if he maintains this form and score more tons, 30s, 40s, 50s wouldn't do it, that would mean his problems are continuing. His inclusion should also be dependent on the performances of Jiwanjot Singh and Abhinav Mukund. And even Unmukt Chand perhaps.

The Duleep Trophy semi finals have started as well.
Both games, between North and East Zons and between South and Central were rain affected. Only 17 overs were possible in the first game, where the North openers Jiwanjot Singh and Unmukt Chand managed to score 33 without being separated.
In the other game, Central are struggling against South at 123-5. There were a couple of starts, from Mukul Dagar and wicketkeeper Naman Ojha, but neither of them managed to play a substantial innings. Former India seamer Abhimanyu Mithun picked up 3 wickets. India spinner Pragyan Ojha went for only 17 runs in 16.2 overs and picked up the wicket of Robin Bist.

even a full bloom Chand is no where close to half performing Gambhir....he ain't even good to average 40 at Ranji leve opener.

abhinav Mukund was proven technically too flawed vs. Eng where he had a decent run of 10 innings. He doesn't even get considred as an India-1 player anymore.

Jiwanjot etal have to score big at A level.....and then show his worth in ODIs when he gets a break..test matches are still far away.

even at his worst Gambhir was getting 30s and 40s and occasional 50s.

the only one who could have given Ganbhir a run as the 3rd opener and possibly Vijay as the second opener was Rahane who for some convoluted logic has ruled himself out as an opener

I agree he needs to keep performing in the first class circuit......but there is daylight between Gambhir and next in line as an opener...assuming that Dhawan and Vijay are the first choice openers.

KP_fan wrote:even a full bloom Chand is no where close to half performing Gambhir....he ain't even good to average 40 at Ranji leve opener.

abhinav Mukund was proven technically too flawed vs. Eng where he had a decent run of 10 innings. He doesn't even get considred as an India-1 player anymore.

Jiwanjot etal have to score big at A level.....and then show his worth in ODIs when he gets a break..test matches are still far away.

even at his worst Gambhir was getting 30s and 40s and occasional 50s.

the only one who could have given Ganbhir a run as the 3rd opener and possibly Vijay as the second opener was Rahane who for some convoluted logic has ruled himself out as an opener

I agree he needs to keep performing in the first class circuit......but there is daylight between Gambhir and next in line as an opener...assuming that Dhawan and Vijay are the first choice openers.

Think Jiwanjot is a player who is more technically correct, and is more likely to find his way to the national side as a test player rather than ODI one.
An on-form Gambhir is an asset, but the imposter who was denying everything and consistently failing or throwing away start was a liability. A test opener has to score tons, 30s and 40s won't cut it at all. Gambhir can happily score his 30s and 40s for Delhi, but not for India. I hope though that he gets back his big scoring temperament back, and gets into the frame.
Otherwise if Jiwanjot has a good season, I think I would rather have him as the backup opener for South Africa, could be a useful learning experience for the youngster.
Mukund has been getting chances with India A even after he was dropped from the national side. He has age on his side, and a high-scoring season can get him back in contention.
I share some of your concerns regarding Chand, he looks a good limited overs player, but he has to go a long way at the test level. But A struggling Gambhir doesn't add anything to Team India, only if he maintains good consistent form should he be brought back.

Abhishek Nayar had an outstanding domestic season last time. He has got off to a good start this time as well. If he continues this good form, he might make the South Africa squad, and even the playing 11, could be a handy seam bowling option in SA. I just wish he adds a yard of pace to his bowling though.

Totally agree about Gambhir, msp and it did give me a chuckle when KPF talked about Jiwanjot getting into the ODI side. His strengths are a sound technique and the ability to occupy the crease. His scoring options are rather limited and I'd be surprised if he ever plays an ODI, given the sort of options we have in ODIs. He didn't play a single limited overs game for Punjab last season. If he's to make his way into tests through ODIs, I doubt he'll ever make it, which would be grossly unfair. I think he needs to be treated as a first class specialist. Does that mean he should go to SA? Well, he'd have to have an absolute stormer of a start to the season to be considered. Personally think his scoring options are a bit too limited at present and he'd get bogged down. I'd much rather he works on his game in Ranji than carrying drinks.

ShankyCricket wrote:Totally agree about Gambhir, msp and it did give me a chuckle when KPF talked about Jiwanjot getting into the ODI side. His strengths are a sound technique and the ability to occupy the crease. His scoring options are rather limited and I'd be surprised if he ever plays an ODI, given the sort of options we have in ODIs. He didn't play a single limited overs game for Punjab last season. If he's to make his way into tests through ODIs, I doubt he'll ever make it, which would be grossly unfair. I think he needs to be treated as a first class specialist. Does that mean he should go to SA? Well, he'd have to have an absolute stormer of a  start to the season to be considered. Personally think his scoring options are a bit too limited at present and he'd get bogged down. I'd much rather he works on his game in Ranji than carrying drinks.

But Shanky, what if Gambhir doesn't convert this start into something meaningful? What if his season continues the pattern of the last 3 years, of wasted starts and ill-adviced prods behind the wickets? Then who'd be your reserve opener?
Rahane doesn't open in first class cricket any more and the new selection committee views him as a middle order option. Sehwag has this ludicrous idea of reinventing himself as a middle order batsman, and he hasn't found any solid form so far anyway. Chand hasn't got going in first class cricket as yet. Mukund has had technical issues in the past. Jagadeesh, despite his recent good showing for the A team and a fine domestic season last time, isn't quite test class and is not young any more. Wasim Jaffer is a proven failure at the international level. Vinit Saxena is not that young, neither does he have a demanding record. The other potential hope is young Vijay Zole, and he has played only one first class game so far and would take at least a couple of solid season before coming into the selectorial frame.
I am sure you wouldn't recommend taking a 2nd Sharma into the squad on the basis of 'Potential' in an opening bat role though Mr Potential has expressed willingness to open in all 3 formats!. Rohit has a chance to make it to the squad, but I don't think he can be taken in as a specialist opener in South African conditions.

So I think Jiwanjot could actually be a viable option.

Another young opener with a good record is Hyderabad's Akshath Reddy. He averages 54 from 21 First Class games, and has had a reasonable start to the domestic season, all be it at the List A level. But like Jiwanjot, he too is inexperienced, and between the 2, think Jiwanjot has a better technique.

I do share KPF's concerns about Chand and his FC record is nothing special but if I were to include a young opener in the party to SA, then he's the one I may be willing to take a punt on, purely because I just think he has got "something" about him. Yes, he's got technical issues but I genuinely believe he has got the ability and more importantly, the temperament to do well at the highest level. I think you need mental toughness more than technical prowess to front up to Steyn and co in their own den. Make no mistake, it will be a baptism of fire, and whilst I am not saying Chand will necessarily be a success, I think he's tough enough to come out of an arduous tour without too many mental scars. I was watching the India A vs NZ A ODIs and Adam Milne, who is seriously rapid, hit him on the helmet. The next delivery, he hooked the ball that took off a good length for a six. There was no fear in his eyes even after getting hit on the helmet and was ready to take on the bowling. I think you need that sort of mentality if you are to do well in SA.

Anyways, I won't pick him as I'm not sure his technique is quite there ATM and that he'd be better off honing his technical skills at domestic level than carrying drinks. But if I were to take a punt on a real youngster, I think he could be the one.

Gambhir should only be considered if he backs this up with consistent performances and when I say "performances", I mean big scores.

Personally, at present, I won't take a backup opener and move Pujara or Rahane up to open if needed rather than picking a specialist opener, who isn't good enough/ready/is horribly out of form. That may change if Gambhir shows some consistency. Consistency being the operative word, of course.

I was actually going to suggest Rohit as an opener but now that Sachin has retired, there is an obvious vacancy in the middle order and I think he should slot in there.

If we take Uday Kaul as the backup keeper, can't he double up as the backup opener also? I believe he has opened for Punjab in Ranji in the past.

If we take recent moves as indications, then Pujara might be asked to do the job in case they need a reserve opener to take up the responsibilities. Don't think Rahane is any more in the frame to open. While Pujara is more than capable of opening, I think he's best suited for a number 3 role and I hope he stays there. I hope Vijay can provide some solidity at the tope, and Dhawan can continue his good recednt form so that the 3rd opener won't be called upon.
I agree that Chand has the attributes you listed Shanky, but I am not too sure he has developed the kind of temperament needed to play the big innings. His List A record has been good so far, it is at the first class that he has struggled. There are technigal issues there, but I feel it is also an issue of longer format temperament. I do have hopes of him, but I'd prefer Jiwanjot over Chand at the moment.

ShankyCricket wrote:I was actually going to suggest Rohit as an opener but now that Sachin has retired, there is an obvious vacancy in the middle order and I think he should slot in there.

If we take Uday Kaul as the backup keeper, can't he double up as the backup opener also? I believe he has opened for Punjab in Ranji in the past.

Rohit is far from being an automatic choice for that middle order opening. Think Rahane has to be ahead of him in the pecking order, and I would have Manish Pandey ahead of him in terms of longer format temperament. If Abhishek Nayar can build on the previous season's success and his early good form this season, I would consider him ahead of Sharma, as Nayar offers a capable bowling option as well.

And young Manpreet Juneja too has to be firmly in the frame for a squad position at least, depending on his Ranji form as well.

Otherwise if Jiwanjot has a good season, I think I would rather have him as the backup opener for South Africa, could be a useful learning experience for the youngster.

Nobody gets to play for India these days.....without impressing in India-A and then either ODIs or IPL.

so here is the route FC--->Ind A--->either ODIs/ or IPL-----> test cricket.

are there any exceptions?
Can't remeber any in recent times

even DK made his come back via this route
Ditto Rayadu....years and years of FC Brilliance got him nowhere......until he sparkled in Inda-A and IPL

Pujara came through mostly the first class system and U-19 games. Jiwanjot has had a few A games already, he didn't have a big performance there, but he's firmly in the frame, and a solid domestic season, and factors like the form of Gautam Gambhir, and showing of Vijay and Dhawan against he West Indies could him getting an opportunity.

And Shanky, Uday Kaul bats in the middle order, don't think he opened regularly for Punjab in the past either.
And , have the selectors moved on from Saha/Karthik/Parthiv Patel?

msp83 wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:I was actually going to suggest Rohit as an opener but now that Sachin has retired, there is an obvious vacancy in the middle order and I think he should slot in there.

If we take Uday Kaul as the backup keeper, can't he double up as the backup opener also? I believe he has opened for Punjab in Ranji in the past.

Rohit is far from being an automatic choice for that middle order opening. Think Rahane has to be ahead of him in the pecking order, and I would have Manish Pandey ahead of him in terms of longer format temperament. If Abhishek Nayar can build on the previous season's success and his early good form this season, I would consider him ahead of Sharma, as Nayar offers a capable bowling option as well.

I just don't understand the resentment towards Rohit. I know he has been disappointing in ODIs in the past but has had a good year not just in ODIs but also on the A tour to SA, where he scored a hundred in the only first class innings he played. He has a terrific Fc record. If you're opposed to him based on his ODI performances in the past, then why Rahane, who has done even worse in ODIs till date and played a PATHETIC shout on Test debut? And Manish Pandey ahead of Rohit? I mean, I rate the guy but c'mon, you can't be serious if you're suggesting he should be ahead of Rohit. He hasn't been a part of any of these India A matches, be it at home or in SA. He has a good FC record but not as good as Rohit's and like Rohit, is known for the odd brainfade too.

Don't see Nayar competing for a top 5 slot. If he plays, it'd have to be as an allrounder ahead of Jadeja or Ashwin. I don't think anyone who has watched both Nayar and Rohit play, will make a serious case for Nayar being the better batsman.

Actually, Dinesh Karthik is in with a good chance to make the squad. He can be the backup wicketkeeper as well as the backup opener in one go. He had some success opening the innings in South Africa in the past.
Don't think I like the scenario too much, but it is more than likely.......

msp83 wrote:Actually, Dinesh Karthik is in with a good chance to make the squad. He can be the backup wicketkeeper as well as the backup opener in one go. He had some success opening the innings in South Africa in the past.
Don't think I like the scenario too much, but it is more than likely.......

I really hope not. He's an awful keeper to begin with. As for his batting, well, less said the better.

msp83 wrote:Pujara came through mostly the first class system and U-19 games. Jiwanjot has had a few A games already, he didn't have a big performance there, but he's firmly in the frame, and a solid domestic season, and factors like the form of Gautam Gambhir, and showing of Vijay and Dhawan against he West Indies could him getting an opportunity.

Pujara came looong time back.....3 years back......you can count him as the last man in that route.

ain't happening these days anymore

else Robin Bisht should have staright gotten into the test side....two back to back 1000+ FC seasons.....winning ranji back to back....performaing in Irani, duleep......2 middle order openings....and he ain't even in the squads of 15

ain't happening these days

selectors and more so dhoni want  to see them pefrom in adversity......temperament test against international quality in either A games or IPL...most likely both leads to genreally ODIs

As far as Karthik's "success" as an opener in South Africa is concerned, he has opened in 1 Test on a flat surface, on which even Wasim Jaffer scored a hundred.

ShankyCricket wrote:

msp83 wrote:

ShankyCricket wrote:I was actually going to suggest Rohit as an opener but now that Sachin has retired, there is an obvious vacancy in the middle order and I think he should slot in there.

If we take Uday Kaul as the backup keeper, can't he double up as the backup opener also? I believe he has opened for Punjab in Ranji in the past.

Rohit is far from being an automatic choice for that middle order opening. Think Rahane has to be ahead of him in the pecking order, and I would have Manish Pandey ahead of him in terms of longer format temperament. If Abhishek Nayar can build on the previous season's success and his early good form this season, I would consider him ahead of Sharma, as Nayar offers a capable bowling option as well.

I just don't understand the resentment towards Rohit. I know he has been disappointing in ODIs in the past but has had a good year not just in ODIs but also on the A tour to SA, where he scored a hundred in the only first class innings he played. He has a terrific Fc record. If you're opposed to him based on his ODI performances in the past, then why Rahane, who has done even worse in ODIs till date and played a PATHETIC shout on Test debut? And Manish Pandey ahead of Rohit? I mean, I rate the guy but c'mon, you can't be serious if you're suggesting he should be ahead of Rohit. He hasn't been a part of any of these India A matches, be it at home or in SA. He has a good FC record but not as good as Rohit's and like Rohit, is known for the odd brainfade too.

Don't see Nayar competing for a top 5 slot. If he plays, it'd have to be as an allrounder ahead of Jadeja or Ashwin. I don't think anyone who has watched both Nayar and Rohit play, will make a serious case for Nayar being the better batsman.

When we isolate it, Rohit's shot making abilities can be considered much better than that of Nayar, and better than that of both Rahane and Manish Pandey. But as we all know, batsmanship is not just about the ability to play pleasing shots, it is about temperament. Can you tell me one innings that Rohit played for Mumbai that the kind of temperament that Pandey showed for Karnataka on a lively track against Mumbai in a 4th innings in their narrow Ranji loss to Mumbai? Rohit has had some massive FC knocks, but most of them came on the flattest of flat tracks, and when the team needed a grind, he was nowhere to be seen. Rahane is better at it, Pandey is better at it, and Nayar offers an all-round package and has taken his chances so far with the A side.
Rohit has had a good year in ODIs by his less than average standards, The number of scores between 0 and 25 has come down and he has gone on to score a few 50s. He hasn't converted any of those starts into something substantial, and scored it not a very impressive strike rate, not that I am suggesting that he should have gone on the attack from ball one, but one you bat at a slowish strike rate, you should make sure you make it a big innings and catch up on the strike rate in the course of the innigs. Rohit hasn't done any of that. He has managed to earn the next series through performance rather than so called potential, that's all.
That doesn't make him an automatic starter in the middle order.

Has Rahane played any special knocks in Ranji? Not that I remember. Pandey has, fair enough. Nayar isn't anywhere close to being in the top 5 batsmen in India. I'm not sure why he's being brought into this debate. He's competing with Jadeja and Ashwin.

I think Rohit's non-existent conversion rate in ODIs is a by product of his slow strike rate. He scores too slowly at the start and then in a bid to up the ante, throws his wicket away. I don't expect that to happen in tests as there is no pressure of the scoring rate.

Pujara cracks a double hundred...........Nayar fails

and here are Jiwanjot's numebrs in A games.... didn't grab his opportunities.
for those not cut-out for ODIs or IPL........they have to make every A game count especially on overseas tours, when they happen


16, 24

India A

v W. Indies A

Mysore

25 Sep 2013

FC



48

India A

v NZ A

Visakhapatnam

28 Aug 2013

FC



24
India A

v Australians

Chennai

16 Feb 2013

FC

Pujara cracks a triple hundred....against a test match qulaity attack.

His apetite is huge and his conversion rate to double and triples is amazing.

one day he will crack a triple hundred in a test match also

Yep, brilliant. Hundred for Unmukt in the Duleep Trophy too btw.

Chand needs to have a BIG , BIG first class season and score heavily.
to overcome the oobservation that most people Including India-A coach has had on his technique.

Good that the Duleep Tropy is now at the the start of the season....kinda practise for the Ranji season ahead.

Mohit sharma, S Kaul and Rishi Dhawan are to watch out for as bowlers........
I am surprised to not see sandeep sharma and Amit Mishra in North Zone side...

Amit Mishra is in the India ODI squad KPF. Surprising that Sandeep Sharma isn't there.
North Zone ended the 2nd day of their semi final game against East at 329-2. A hundred for Unmukt Chand(116), and J&K batsman Ian Dev Singh retired hurt for 95. Mandeep Sangh and Rajit Paliwal both batting in the 40s.
In the other game, having bowled Central Zone out for 209, South Zone are 137-2. Abhinav Mukund is batting on 61, and Baba Aparajith is giving him company on 35. Earlier, India spinner Pragyan Ojha and seamer Abhimanyu Mithun picked up 3 wickets each, and Aparajith and M Rangarajan 2 each to bowl Central out for 209, with skipper Piyush Chawla scoring 56 at 7.
Umesh Yadav and Chawla have shared the 2 South wickets.

Triple ton for Cheteshwar pUjara in the A game, back to true Pujara form after a couple of bad games, and that provided India A with a 296 run first innings advantage. Then their seamers, Zaheer Khan, Ishwar Pandey and Dawal Kulkarni chipped in with a wicket each to reduce WI A to 116-3. Game well and truly on on the final day.

Zaheer delivers a killer blow....with a 4-fer as WI collapse from 234-5 to 242 bolwed out.....Zaheer and Kulkarni clean up the last 5 wickets for nothing.

He is back....his quality was never questionable....he proves his hunger remains and fitness regained.

very heartening for India

give Zaheer  test macth by test match and see how far he can go.

Another hundred for Baba Aparajith. Ton up for Mukund too.

well done aparajith...he is making it count....this is  what one needs to do go get up in the visibility of selectors scores tons and tons of runs.

meanwhile reports say Nayar bowled well as a pseamer......he might be a good cover as a part-times for the seam bowling in India since we play only 2 seamers

In the Duleep Trophy semies, South Zone are 467-9 against Central who were bowled out for 209. Skipper Abhinav Mukund made 111 and Baba Aparajith, who scored a double hundred in the previous added another , 109 this time. The other double ton man from the last game, Manish Pandey scored 81.
Piyush Chawala's 43 over spell gave him 4-159, India seamer Umesh Yadav couldn't add to the one wicket he picked yesterday.
In the other game, Noth Zone ended up scoring 591-8 declared. Besides Unmukth Chand who completed a hundred yesterday, there were tons for Ian Dev Singh, Rajat Paliwal and Nitin Sainy. Mandeep Singh scored a 50 as well. In response, East are 32 for 1, former India offy Harbhajan Singh with the wicket for his team.

It was a good win for India A, Cheteshwar Pujara got back in form, Gautam Gambhir managed a substantial score after some time, and Abhishek Nayar had a very creditable game with the ball. But the most significant thing has been the 4 wicket haul from Zaheer Khan. The engine seems to have warmed up well, and reports are that Zaheer could actually produce some of the magical deliveries like the Zaheer of old could do. The ball to get Narsinh Deonarine was an unplayable one that bowled him for 99.

Zaheer in fact managed to bowl 3 of the 4 batsmen he dismissed in the 2nd innings, and the other one was LBW. Hope he keeps up the form and maintains his fitness.

problem with Zak is, can you take him into a test match now, and be 100% sure he will last 2 innings?

Hopefully Zaheer will play some Ranji games as well, and perhaps he can be considered for the West Indies tests next month? Don't think India should look to Zaheer in ODIs any more.

CF wrote:problem with Zak is, can you take him into a test match now, and be 100% sure he will last 2 innings?

yes...game by game he can go through....by managing his workload.
keep playing a few FC games....to keep his rythm and fitness.

and since india will defnitely play 5 bowlers including jadeja.......they can risk one odd inning if he breaks-down.
the reward /upside of such an approach is immense.

and as added cover i would even pick nayar as one of the middle order batters.......as he can bowl some seam up if zaheer breaks

I think you're weakening the batting far too much, KPF. If fit, I'd pick Zaheer in a 4 man attack. If not fit, don't pick him at all. As simple as that. I'd definitely play 6 proper batsmen with Dhoni at 7.

msp83 wrote:Hopefully Zaheer will play some Ranji games as well, and perhaps he can be considered for the West Indies tests next month? Don't think India should look to Zaheer in ODIs any more.

I won't pick him in ODIs ATM purely because I don't want us to build all our plans around him again as there's no guarantee he'll be available for the WC. But if he can somehow miraculously managed to stay fit till then, I'd definitely pick him in my WC squad provided he's bowling well ofcourse.