Ospreys v Edinburgh, 21 September

First topic message reminder :

Ospreys v Edinburgh
 
Saturday 21st September 2013, KO 18:30
Liberty Stadium, Landore
 
Referee: Claudio Blessano (FIR, 5th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Gwyn Morris, Greg Morgan (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Charles (WRU)
TMO: Paul Adams (WRU)
 
Live on S4C/BBC Heedrumhodrum
 
A. Teams:
 
1. Ospreys      
15 Richard Fussell
14 Jeff Hassler
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Eli Walker
10 Dan Biggar
9 Tito Tebaldi

1 Duncan Jones
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Adam Jones
4 Alun Wyn Jones (Capt)
5 Ian Evans
6 Tom Smith
7 Sam Lewis
8 Morgan Allen

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Ryan Bevington
18 Joe Rees
19 Tyler Ardron
20 Justin Tipuric
21 Tom Grabham
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Aisea Natoga
 
2. Edinburgh    
15 Greig Tonks

14 Nikki Walker
13 Dougie Fife
12 Nick De Luca
11 Tim Visser

10 Harry Leonard
9 Sean Kennedy

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Aleki Lutui
3 Geoff Cross
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 Dimitri Basilaia
7 Roddy Grant CAPTAIN
8 David Denton

Substitutes

16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 WP Nel
19 Ollie Atkins
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Michael Tait
23 Jack Cuthbert
 
B. Form - head to head:
 
Ospreys/Edinburgh
 
22 Played 22
12 Wins 9
9 Losses 12
1 Draws 1
49 Tries 49
30 Conversions 36
64 Penalties 42
4 Drop Goals 1
509 Points 446
26 Avg. Age 25
 
C. Form - last season:
 
Friday 23 November 2012, 19:05: Murrayfield
Edinburgh Rugby 23 - 13 Ospreys
 
Friday 22 February 2013, 20:00: Liberty Stadium
Ospreys 24 - 7 Edinburgh Rugby

GLove39 wrote:
Taff you wouldn't happen to be called Sian Chetty would you?

By whom?

Taffineastbourne wrote:Edinburgh got more than they deserved from that match.Used to them being poor but they have added a nasty edge which makes them even more unpleasing to the eye.They have gone for big lumps but have not one Rugby player in their side.
I hope they get all that they deserve this season.

It's warming to note that your posts have moved from the unsustainable to the incomprehensible, Taff.
A definite advance, I feel.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ok, same question, replace nasty with dirty?

Hooker,blindside and fullback seem pretty unpleasant individuals.Would not want them in my side.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:
Taff you wouldn't happen to be called Sian Chetty would you?

By whom?

By your friends and family?

A few things:

Didn't realise we were the first team that caused a scuffle when one of their players was on the receiving end of a bad tackle

Didn't see the lutui incident but even if he did something bad does that suddenly mean the entire team is dirty?

Tonks was holding off awj - I'm sure the last thing he wanted was a fight!

Haven't been any complaints from O's fans on here - genuinely don't have s clue where this latest rant has come from.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ok, same question, replace nasty with dirty?

Hooker,blindside and fullback seem pretty unpleasant individuals.Would not want them in my side.

Nathan Hines was always seen as somewhat of a "nasty" player and most teams would be over the moon to have him in their team... sometimes a nasty player is required?

However I'd disagree with your selections, Tonks is often the man splitting up fights not causing them, Basilai wasn't nasty, if you are referring to this "high tackle" the ref went to the viid ref for it was clearly accidental (arm sliding up as attacker was going to ground) and I didnt see anything particularly bad from the hooker... If anything I though it was our 2nd rows that were causing the broo-ha-ha?

GLove39 wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:
Taff you wouldn't happen to be called Sian Chetty would you?

By whom?

By your friends and family?

Nope.Try again. 

Tramptastic wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ok, same question, replace nasty with dirty?

Hooker,blindside and fullback seem pretty unpleasant individuals.Would not want them in my side.

Nathan Hines was always seen as somewhat of a "nasty" player and most teams would be over the moon to have him in their team... sometimes a nasty player is required?

However I'd disagree with your selections, Tonks is often the man splitting up fights not causing them, Basilai wasn't nasty, if you are referring to this "high tackle" the ref went to the viid ref for it was clearly accidental (arm sliding up as attacker was going to ground) and I didnt see anything particularly bad from the hooker... If anything I though it was our 2nd rows that were causing the broo-ha-ha?

Nathan Hines was nasty but he could play Rugby.
If Edinburgh are not in the bottom three I will be very surprised.

RDW_Scotland wrote:A few things:

Didn't realise we were the first team that caused a scuffle when one of their players was on the receiving end of a bad tackle

Didn't see the lutui incident but even if he did something bad does that suddenly mean the entire team is dirty?

Tonks was holding off awj - I'm sure the last thing he wanted was a fight!

Haven't been any complaints from O's fans on here - genuinely don't have s clue where this latest rant has come from.

I would suggest rewatching the match. 

I'd forgotten about Taffs vendetta against all things scottish rugby... well lads we had 3 blissful weeks of decent chat with opposition supporters, it couldn't go on forever! The Internet Trolls have arrived!!  

Superb game from the Ospreys. A few handling errors that were annoying sometimes but a great all round team performance. The pack, back row, Eli, bish, hassler, hibbs. A bit if cameo magic by nipper Morgan. Edin were poor, bit of a let down for the fans considering the team containing mcvisser, Denton, etc. Great eve down the liberty...

Btw, the scrap after the tip tackle by er..tips was to far away to judge but apparently it was a harsh yellow ( bloke behind us saw it on the tele when he went for a pish) yet I could clearly see an edin player swinging away merrily like butterbean but no card? Haven't seen a replay yet...

The (welsh) tmo reviewed the aftermath and didn't see anything more than handbags. Don't see why this is being made such a big deal!

Breadvan wrote:Btw, the scrap after the tip tackle by er..tips was to far away to judge but apparently it was a harsh yellow ( bloke behind us saw it on the tele when he went for a pish) yet I could clearly see an edin player swinging away merrily like butterbean but no card?  Haven't seen a replay yet...

Think it was a yellow for the tip, Edinburgh player swinging away like a loon was Basilaia but he can't really do anything else he's a crap player never liked him since he came to Edinburgh and really hope he's on the plane back to Georgia soon, don't think he made contact with any of the slaps/punches he tried (he can't even get that right).

Fair enough then. It's over, we'll move on. What I did notice tho is Visser? He's massive! Looks far to bulky for the wing...

Breadvan wrote:Fair enough then. It's over, we'll move on. What I did notice tho is Visser? He's massive! Looks far to bulky for the wing...

He's massive, but a big Jessie!

Well done Ospreys, you can only beat whats in front of you, and apparently Edinburgh sent out a bunch of strangers the coach met on the flight down who've never played rugby before in their life.  Or for that matter caught a ball.

Truly awful.

The highlight (well lowlight to be more accurate) was shipping 14 points when Ospreys were down to 14 men.....how!!

Still, on the positives, another week on with the new coaching team so with any luck we'll begin to seem some progress (i really hope).

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:
Taff you wouldn't happen to be called Sian Chetty would you?

By whom?

By your friends and family?

Nope.Try again. 

Your psychiatrist? Parole officer? Oh. Wait. Your boyfriend?

A really good night at the Liberty tonight. Not sure that Edinburgh front five was as good as the one last week.

Very surprised at the result, good play by the ospreys.

Ill watch the video of the game tomorrow. But a great night out and a good win

George Carlin wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

GLove39 wrote:
Taff you wouldn't happen to be called Sian Chetty would you?

By whom?

By your friends and family?

Nope.Try again. 

Your psychiatrist? Parole officer? Oh. Wait. Your boyfriend?

Ah!I have missed your intellect 

maestegmafia wrote:A really good night at the Liberty tonight. Not sure that Edinburgh front five was as good as the one last week.

Very surprised at the result, good play by the ospreys.

Ill watch the video of the game tomorrow. But a great night out and a good win

Maes,

Only seen bits of game but how did Morgan Allen go?  On the Dragons post you commented that McCusker is only in Welsh set up due to lack of options for Faletau, Morgan (from bits I seen) seems to be in the Ben Morgan role which would be a great alternative to Toby.

Bedford,Morgan played ok.Probably not as well as Bearman usually does but he didn't do much wrong.Hard to judge in light of the woeful opposition.

I was at the game last night. He looked good, as Taffs says maybe not the presence Bearman is but as a relatively young player there is time to see more.

I don't think he will be challenging Faletau just yet.

I tell you who is having a great impact and that is Chris Gibbes. The forwards as a unit look so well organised, hardly made a mistake. Their mauling and rucking were fantastic.

Cheers guys, Bearmans chance has gone IMO for a call up, possibly should have had one few seasons back.

Good to know that Allen is looking good though and we have Ieuan Jones down at Dave who should get decent game time when Tobys away.

For me its not just about developing options and strength in depth its about developing different styles of options, from a Welsh point of view.

I think most of us would have loved to have seen Ben Morgan opt for this side of the bridge as then we would have had to great players of very differing styles in him and Toby.

Bearman isn't Welsh, i don't think he was ever an option really.

Morgan Allen is behind Ieuan Jones in my opinion, Jones looks a great player.

Dan Baker who is with the Ospreys but playing for Swansea looks promising too.

Just watched the game on TV. The yellow card was a bit on the harsh side, but you could have made an argument for it. The handbags after were nothing.

Watching Edinburgh makes me sad.

The basic skill level in the Gunners team us pretty low.

In contrast the ospreys offloading in contact and confidence with ball in hand, throughout the team, is superb.

Great performance by Richard Fussell too. I am not a fan of his at all, but he played a superb game last night.

Right, in the cold light of day it's time to take stock of just how bad that was last night. That was seriously the worst Edinburgh performance I remember in a long time - including last season, and that says it all! The team were clueless, made 34 errors - 34 - and worst of all - the thing that angered us fans the most last season - the players looked like they couldn't give a crap and weren't interested in giving their al for their team and their fans.

Game plan

What game plan? I appreciate that the coaches are new and that they have made a simple game plan to start with, but surely there's more to the gameplan than if we're in our own half kick it, if we're in their half pass it to a forward from 9......that's all it seems to be! Surely it can't be that basic? These are professional players FFS - put some structure in set plays in place. The players looked completely clueless on the off occasion that they actually got the ball.

Defence

Similar story, only had a defence coach for a few weeks, but surely on day one he would have told him what the plan was - i.e. blitz or drift. We did neither. Or both, but not at the same time and not between two players standing next to each other. One player would blitz, the other hang back. We were clueless. Again these are pro players - they should be able to implement a basic defencive systems, and at the end of the day they just need to bloody tackle ffs!!

What's worrying is that our fringe defence was shocking - and that's the easy bit. Even I know you need pillars, guards, and the person that stands outside that to hit any runners off 9. Their first try on 2 mins was because our fringe defence as shocking.

Rucking

All the talk from the players was how they were going to bring a lot more physicality this year, and how they were going to be an aggressive rucking team. An under 10 girls team would have beaten us at the breakdown yesterday - it was appalling. Also, the amount of times the ball was at the back of the ruck or just scooted out and we just looked at it - clueless what to do. DIVE ON THE BLOODY BALL!!!!!

Contact skills

Shocking. Amatuer. Scholboy stuff. The number of times we took the ball in and spilled it in contact, or were stripped in possession. WP NEl - 19 stone beast of a prop had the ball stripped off him by Tupiric - that should not be happening.



So all in all that really was embarrassing. You know what - I bet we end up beating the Scarlets next week! This seems to be the way with Edinburgh - scrape though a win, get over-confident and get humped the next week, then that suddenly becomes a wake up call and we put in a good performance the following week. We lack consistency - and that is a mental thing.



Good luck Alan Solomons - you certainly need it. Please don't leave....


Rant over.

Matthew Morgan should be converted to a scrumhalf.

I agree with you Maes. All the Spreys got were chances - they still have to execute them and all 6 tries were technically and clinically well worked. There's'a danger when one side is fairly abject to fail to give the winning side credit but that wouldn't be fair. It was a strong Ospreys team, sure, but one where each individual knew exactly what his role and contribution should be.

Solomons needs to start with the same front row every week, give VdW some help and find an experienced 10 from the SH. The fact that Lineen is back in NZ right now is hopefully no co-incidence at all.

RDW I didn't see that type of result happening pre match.

Edinburgh have looked good previously.

George Carlin wrote:I agree with you Maes. All the Spreys got were chances - they still have to execute them and all 6 tries were technically and clinically well worked. There's'a danger when one side is fairly abject to fail to give the winning side credit but that wouldn't be fair. It was a strong Ospreys team, sure, but one where each individual knew exactly what his role and contribution should be.

Solomons needs to start with the same front row every week, give VdW some help and find an experienced 10 from the SH. The fact that Lineen is back in NZ right now is hopefully no co-incidence at all.

It's not a bad team, that ospreys pack had four test lions in it.

I wouldn't be too down on Edinburgh. It's early in the year. The Ospreys are a good side playing well, Edinburgh need a better scrum half and more organisation in the backline defence. The Scrumhalf wasn't so sharpe, it wasn't a great idea playing two such inexperienced half backs. Leonard is a great flyhalf in the making but there was little he could do last night.

Unfortunately Maes we don't have any other options just now due to injury - we don't have any fit reserve 10s and our backup 9 is a young academy prospect!

We started the season with six 9s and three 10s.
It was asking for trouble, to be honest.

Nothing wrong with Leonard. He did what he could, but Kennedy was poor.

We lost Khan this summer, picked up Tito who seems to be doing well, though he is getting great ball from the forwards, we also just shot term signed that Canadian lad. Rhys Webb and Tom Habberfield who were likely to be the front runners are both out until after the first three rounds of HEC.

maestegmafia wrote:Nothing wrong with Leonard. He did what he could, but Kennedy was poor.

We lost Khan this summer, picked up Tito who seems to be doing well, though he is getting great ball from the forwards, we also just shot term signed that Canadian lad. Rhys Webb and Tom Habberfield who were likely to be the front runners are both out until after the first three rounds of HEC.

Leonard is fine Maes but it depends what your basis for comparison is. Scotland's club sides have recently managed to attract guys like Maitland, Strauss, Matawalu, Du Preez, Nel etc and whatever your views on the relative strengths and weaknesses of these players, they have stood head and shoulders from their colleagues on the field.
 
What Edinburgh need is an experienced 10 that Leonard can learn from because we know that Solomons does not see Greig Laidlaw wearing a shirt with '10' written on it in the near future. The Super Rugby season and the RC is now over and whilst the players deserve a rest, it does open up a window to take a good player on loan and pay them as necessary for 3-4 months of good service. Imagine what a Bernard Foley, a Matt Toomua or a Johan Goosen could do for the Edinburgh backline. As a rugby nation, we should be trying to raise expectations because we cannot blame lack of budget any more.

maestegmafia wrote:Bearman isn't Welsh, i don't think he was ever an option really.

Morgan Allen is behind Ieuan Jones in my opinion, Jones looks a great player.

Dan Baker who is with the Ospreys but playing for Swansea looks promising too.

Since when does that stop teams these days Maes, he's Welsh qualified and was being tipped for call up few seasons ago.

What depresses me is that Edinburgh is 50% of Scottish pro Rugby and the skill levels and overseas representation give their national selectors very little to work with.
I am old enough to remember a competitive Scotland.Rutherford,Renwick,Irvine,Geech et al must be livid when they see what has evolved since their days.Very sad.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Bearman isn't Welsh, i don't think he was ever an option really.

Morgan Allen is behind Ieuan Jones in my opinion, Jones looks a great player.

Dan Baker who is with the Ospreys but playing for Swansea looks promising too.

Since when does that stop teams these days Maes, he's Welsh qualified and was being tipped for call up few seasons ago.

He is English, he might not want to play for Wales. I am sure as a Welshman living in England you wouldn't play for England if asked..?

Well to be fair Edinburgh missed 4 of their best players yesterday: Ford, Rennie, Laidlaw and last but not least Scott who is one of the best 12 in Europe imo.

What a mad game, kick off was 18:30 and the car park closes at 21:00.  we only just made it before they were closing the gate.  Thats how long the game went on!  We nearly all got locked out from our cars, lol

Denton their number 8 had a shocking game and Tebaldi for the Ospreys is the best thing since sliced bread, its fantastic to see an Ospreys scrum half not faffing about at the break down. we have been screaming out for him for years!

Where were you parked?

Griff wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Cari wrote:FT 44-10  Well done boys.

Ole Ole Ole Ole Ospreys Ospreys...

I think a few of the French, English and Irish teams would have put 60 points on an Edinburgh team playing like that. Ospreys need to continue to improve. Nice to see the leading players were hungry, it's inspirational to the other players around them.

It did not help having a scrum half hoofing the ball away also the Ospreys had 4 Lions out of 5 in the front and second row and another came into the back row, I can't think of to many teams that have a pack that came match the Ospreys and Bearman and R Jones did not play.

What was worrying for the Ospreys was the number of penalties and free kicks conceded at the scrum. For a team with so many Lions in the pack I would have expected them to dominate the scrum, but maybe the new laws do not favour strong scrummaging teams???

Spot on Griff.

Glam, it's not entirely clear what you are getting at. Tibaldi is playing to under a set game plan, I'd go as far to say he's been the Ospreys best signing so far. The Saints and a few French teams will be a great challenge for the Ospreys pack, especially seeing as they were under pressure from Edinburgh last night. The error and penalty count from the Ospreys was far too high, they were lucky Edinburgh didn't hold on to possession very well. The Scots team look like they will probably be battling with the Blues and Zebre for the Pro12 wooden spoon.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Bearman isn't Welsh, i don't think he was ever an option really.

Morgan Allen is behind Ieuan Jones in my opinion, Jones looks a great player.

Dan Baker who is with the Ospreys but playing for Swansea looks promising too.

Since when does that stop teams these days Maes, he's Welsh qualified and was being tipped for call up few seasons ago.

He is English, he might not want to play for Wales. I am sure as a Welshman living in England you wouldn't play for England if asked..?

Come on Maes, I know you're not that blinkered, Copsey, Morris Moon, etc etc.

Yes he's English but qualifies for Wales on residency, England have never shown any interest in him and I am sure a few seasons back he said he would be willing to accpet the call if it came.

I am nopt saying its right or wrong its just the wasy eligability is at the moment (agrument for diff post) and as you say I would rather Jones or Allen be given the chance as I think Bearman has missed his chance now age wise.

OK RD,

you can have Scott Wight once Dunky Meatball gets fit and we will have........ mmmm lets see ? Might take Laidlaw as a reserve kicker - he will be 4th in line SH right enough.   Thats about it - not one other of your players could get into the Glasgow squad 50 tbh. That was a woeful performance last night - Denton is so far from and international back row it is getting to the laughable stage.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:OK RD,

you can have Scott Wight once Dunky Meatball gets fit and we will have........ mmmm lets see ?   Might take Laidlaw as a reserve kicker - he will be 4th in line SH right enough.       Thats about it - not one other of your players could get into the Glasgow squad 50 tbh.    That was a woeful performance last night - Denton is so far from and international back row it is getting to the laughable stage.

I wouldn't say that there are intrisic issues, it all looks like the team are trying to adapt to new systems.

RDW, you sound as if you're really hurting. This is no time to go for cheap laughs. Keep the faith, "This too in time will pass."
Oh, and by the way the Weege are top of the league. 

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Bearman isn't Welsh, i don't think he was ever an option really.

Morgan Allen is behind Ieuan Jones in my opinion, Jones looks a great player.

Dan Baker who is with the Ospreys but playing for Swansea looks promising too.

Since when does that stop teams these days Maes, he's Welsh qualified and was being tipped for call up few seasons ago.

He is English, he might not want to play for Wales. I am sure as a Welshman living in England you wouldn't play for England if asked..?

Come on Maes, I know you're not that blinkered, Copsey, Morris Moon, etc etc.  

Yes he's English but qualifies for Wales on residency, England have never shown any interest in him and I am sure a few seasons back he said he would be willing to accpet the call if it came.

I am nopt saying its right or wrong its just the wasy eligability is at the moment (agrument for diff post) and as you say I would rather Jones or Allen be given the chance as I think Bearman has missed his chance now age wise.

Aye I remember it being talked about a while back. All very hypothetical. I don't remember Bearman come ting either way. He was only mentioned because we had injuries.

I would imagine he considers himself English and has no interest. Though like you said mate, it is of little relevence. Much like Ben Morgan, another player England formerly had no interest in..!

Though he is a good lad and will be great, along with Ryan Jones at the Os to help progress Baker and Allen. Similarly Toby will be great helping Ieuan Jones progress...