Lewis is more overrated than Tyson?

by winchester Mon 22 Jul 2013, 11:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

I think Lewis is overrated here. There is another thread about Tyson being overrated but hes not overrated compared to Lewis.Tyson was past it when he fought Lewis. People put too much emphasis on that result. Lewis would try and jab away at him but Tyson at his best was fast and destructive. He would attack Lewis out of the blocks and knock him out. I dont know much about boxings early history but I think Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Liston would beat Lewis. I dont think he is up there with the best in history.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

Bowe was finished then wasn't he ??

by kingraf Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:28 pm

To be fair to Winny, even I knew the Kell Brook story, and I wasnt around then, I know it because there was a thread about it Two months ago.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:29 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
bhb001 wrote:Winchester joined / created an alias in March this year

Im thinking maybe he is...Coxy??

That was my guess too.

Did think Scottrf at one point but think he's long gone.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bowe was finished then wasn't he ??

Of course he was. Wouldn't suit your argument otherwise.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:30 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
bhb001 wrote:Winchester joined / created an alias in March this year

Im thinking maybe he is...Coxy??

That was my guess too.

Did think Scottrf at one point but think he's long gone.

Scotty was more of a one line poster..but I did think of him..

Perfessor Albert ???

by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:31 pm

Nah. Always had the Perfessor down as Windy's mystery alias.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:32 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bowe was finished then wasn't he ??

Of course he was. Wouldn't suit your argument otherwise.

You not think bowe was sliding..looked awful...

Golota quit in 2 vs Mike......tillis 4-6 against the prime one

by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:34 pm

And Lewis took him out in only 1 = Lewis>Mike. FACT.

by winchester Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:35 pm

kingraf wrote:To be fair to Winny, even I knew the Kell Brook story, and I wasnt around then, I know it because there was a thread about it Two months ago.

Somebody put a thread asking to hear from someone who had posted a thread about being a boxer and then another poster explained that it had been made up by JabMachine and wasnt real.

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:36 pm

kingraf wrote:To be fair to Winny, even I knew the Kell Brook story, and I wasnt around then, I know it because there was a thread about it Two months ago.

there was a period where there were new users popping up every week talking utter rubbish and then they would vanish and then a new user would pop up straight after and talk the same rubbish and then vanish and theis went on for a while and then winchester popped up talking the same rubbish but he decided to stay longer.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:37 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:And Lewis took him out in only 1 = Lewis>Mike. FACT.

Will you take a draw............

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:41 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
kingraf wrote:To be fair to Winny, even I knew the Kell Brook story, and I wasnt around then, I know it because there was a thread about it Two months ago.

there was a period where there were new users popping up every week talking utter rubbish and then they would vanish and then a new user would pop up straight after and talk the same rubbish and then vanish and theis went on for a while and then winchester popped up talking the same rubbish but he decided to stay longer.

Hope he is an alias anyway...Hate to think someone is really so thick... Cool

by TopHat24/7 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:46 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:And Lewis took him out in only 1 = Lewis>Mike. FACT.

Will you take a draw............

Deal

by JabMachineMK2 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:50 pm

Wheres my draw?

All I got was a kiss.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 4:51 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Wheres my draw?

All I got was a kiss.

draw....

by milkyboy Tue 23 Jul 2013, 5:04 pm

Truss conceding a draw? That's pretty much dropping his trousers and touching his toes. Gets enough practice at the oyster I guess.

Good to see you spreading the love trussy and great to see how much you think haz has improved as a poster since the mayweather ATG thread!

by horizontalhero Tue 23 Jul 2013, 5:06 pm

hazharrison wrote:I'd agree that the version of Biggs who faced Tyson would have beaten any version of Grant.

Dominic Guinn almost beheaded him.

Biggs lost every round against Tyson, Tyson carried him for at least half the fight. Bizarre arguement Haz-he didn't look good in that fight.

by hazharrison Tue 23 Jul 2013, 5:39 pm

Biggs did well in the opening two. Big, mobile, beautiful jab. Grant was big and strong but had little idea.

That Biggs would have handled Grant. Tyson chewed him up, though.

by hazharrison Tue 23 Jul 2013, 5:45 pm

Biggs also did well with Bowe.

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 6:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 6:15 pm

kingraf wrote:Bless Duty, never misses the chance to fly the St George's flag high.
Lewis trumping Tyson in speed is hilarious... But Lewis having an iron chin...

Left me convulsing like an infantile in laughter

Keep St. George in my heart, keep me English.
Keep St. George in my heart, I pray!
Keep St. George in my heart, keep me English.
Keep me English till my dying day. music

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 6:16 pm

And I never said Lewis was quicker than Tyson.

by hazharrison Tue 23 Jul 2013, 6:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:10 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

Knocked down twice. Less than Ali. Less than Tyson. #fact

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

Knocked down twice. Less than Ali. Less than Tyson. #fact

I agree lewis's chin is underestimated because of his 2 losses. But he has only been down twice which is a sign his chin is tough.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:15 pm

Akinwande ??

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:18 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

Knocked down twice. Less than Ali. Less than Tyson. #fact

I agree lewis's chin is underestimated because of his 2 losses. But he has only been down twice which is a sign his chin is tough.

Well you don't manage to fight everyone of note in the HW division over a decade, only going down twice, if your chin isn't iron do you?

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

Knocked down twice. Less than Ali. Less than Tyson. #fact

I agree lewis's chin is underestimated because of his 2 losses. But he has only been down twice which is a sign his chin is tough.

Well you don't manage to fight everyone of note in the HW division over a decade, only going down twice, if your chin isn't iron do you?

what about his amatuer career did he go down much?

by hazharrison Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:19 pm

Yeah - clipped him with a sneaky shot and Lewis touched down:

https://youtu.be/5SlmtvpXaqg

Goofy grin suggests he felt it (he usually flashed that when hurt).

by Duty281 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:22 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Come on now, Duty. There's absolutely nothing to suggest that Lewis 'blitzes' Tyson. Nothing at all.

First off, I think you need to ponder the idea that, peak for peak, Lewis might have to go the long way around to beat Tyson, if indeed he can beat him at all. The likes of Holyfield, Mavrovic, McCall (it'll go down as a TKO, but hardly a conventional or impressive one), Mercer, Tucker etc showed that, quite often, Lewis had to settle for points verdicts against the best chins he came across, and Tyson's whiskers were excellent.

As I (and others) have said before, yes, Tyson could be vulnerable to a great jab, movement and a tough mental attitude, but he also showed that he could still win when faced with these problems. But as vulnerable as Tyson could be against that style, which resembled Lewis', we saw time and time again that Lewis could be vulnerable against styles with had quite a bit in common to Tyson's; Mercer was arguably unlucky not to earn at least a draw against Lennox by pressuring him, getting on his inside and working the body and backing him up. Rahman got in close enough, after forcing Lewis to temporarily back pedal, to land the killer blow, a slightly shopworn (but not shot) Holyfield gave him plenty to think about by fighting that way in their rematch etc.

If you want to point out that Lewis had the attributes to trouble Tyson, then fine. I'd agree. But let's not pretend that Tyson didn't have just as many attributes to trouble Lewis.

It's not as if Tyson is guaranteed to lose if he can't completely cut loose to Lennox in close, anyway. Tyson-Tucker is proof enough of this. In terms of devastation and carnage, the kind of stuff you'd normally associate with Tyson, it wasn't one of his great nights, but he did show that he could adapt and outbox / outjab a tall, rangy fighter who was a good mover, too. For attitude, concentration and application, Tyson scores full marks for that showing. He struggled early on, taking a few shots, lunging in with big, single shots and being countered, but by the mid rounds he'd settled down to his boxing and it was him who was outjabbing, outspeeding and countering Tucker.

Both at their bests, they're both good enough to beat the other, but if I had to edge towards one (which would be no more than a 60:40 kind of thing, admittedly) then I might just be inclined to favour Tyson.

I think you grossly overestimate Lewis' abilities and so-called dominance of his era.

Maybe blitzes is a bit too much. I do think though that Lewis would be able to weather the early onslaught; he had an iron chin and a brilliant defence after all. From about round 4, Lewis would dominate with his jab before closing it out with a late TKO victory in a largely one-sided fight. The speed and the right hand would be too much for Tyson.

It really is that simple. Lewis' sheer size alone would prove a mammoth task for Tyson. Styles make fights, and this fight would have been made for Lewis.

Lewis had an iron chin?

I know...that's a new one..

Er...obviously. Down twice in a 44 fight career. Can't get much more iron than that. Think of all the fighters he took shots from and didn't go down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIRShCBKwng

Wobbled by Briggs, Holyfield, Mercer. Stunned by Akinwande, Bruno, Vitali. Put to sleep by McCall, Rahman.

Knocked down twice. Less than Ali. Less than Tyson. #fact

I agree lewis's chin is underestimated because of his 2 losses. But he has only been down twice which is a sign his chin is tough.

Well you don't manage to fight everyone of note in the HW division over a decade, only going down twice, if your chin isn't iron do you?
what about his amatuer career did he go down much?

Don't know much about his amateur career. His record was apparently 85-9.

by hazharrison Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:24 pm

Even Jeremy Williams had him over here (at 2:50):

https://youtu.be/WxfaOOWNHKg

Whistle

by winchester Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:25 pm

I dont think Lewis had a good chin at all. He always seemed to get hurt and wobbled when punches landed on him and I think thats why he developed a boring style. Ali had a great chin. How many heavyweights could soak up those punishing shots from Foreman on the roped. Lewis would have been flattened by that onslaught.

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:30 pm

winchester wrote:I dont think Lewis had a good chin at all. He always seemed to get hurt and wobbled when punches landed on him and I think thats why he developed a boring style. Ali had a great chin. How many heavyweights could soak up those punishing shots from Foreman on the roped. Lewis would have been flattened by that onslaught.

If only lewis had an iron chin like tyson fury has.

by winchester Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:32 pm

Whats that got to do with anything? Do you have a point. Maybe Fury should ask Wladimir Klitschko for chin advice or the manual on how to get knocked out by bums.

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:34 pm

winchester wrote:Whats that got to do with anything? Do you have a point. Maybe Fury should ask Wladimir Klitschko for chin advice or the manual on how to get knocked out by bums.

After haye knocks out Fury, fury will have wished he got advice from klitschko.

by winchester Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:35 pm

I doubt it because if he asked for advice from Klitschko he would be fighting his sparring partner or getting knocked out by journeymen

by Champagne_Socialist Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:36 pm

winchester wrote:I doubt it because if he asked for advice from Klitschko he would be fighting his sparring partner or getting knocked out by journeymen

haye never knocked klitschko down Smile

but haye will knock fury out Smile

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:36 pm

Or by 35 year old half dead cruisers with 25-5 records..

by winchester Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:39 pm

At least Haye is willing to fight Fury, I will credit him for that.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 23 Jul 2013, 7:40 pm

winchester wrote:At least Haye is willing to fight Fury, I will credit him for that.

He'll be so grateful..

by The Terror of Tylorstown Wed 24 Jul 2013, 12:29 am

Tyrell Biggs being hailed as anything relating to a good win gives me a good indication of the posters who know naff all, amateur records mean nothing but being a damn average pro means a lot. I would say that win for Tyson is inconsequential when evaluating his placing, we may as well proclaim Harrison as a worthwhile win for Haye.

Lewis didn't have an iron chin but despite the McCall and Rahman fights suggesting otherwise it was pretty good when he needed to take a shot, Briggs wasn't anything special but he could hit and hit hard, landed on Lewis resulting in a small wobble suggesting his chin wasn't that bad.

Lewis at 4
Tyson at 12

by hazharrison Wed 24 Jul 2013, 7:16 am

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Tyrell Biggs being hailed as anything relating to a good win gives me a good indication of the posters who know naff all, amateur records mean nothing but being a damn average pro means a lot. I would say that win for Tyson is inconsequential when evaluating his placing, we may as well proclaim Harrison as a worthwhile win for Haye.

Lewis didn't have an iron chin but despite the McCall and Rahman fights suggesting otherwise it was pretty good when he needed to take a shot, Briggs wasn't anything special but he could hit and hit hard, landed on Lewis resulting in a small wobble suggesting his chin wasn't that bad.

Lewis at 4
Tyson at 12

There is no justification for placing Lewis that high. Lennox wasn't the finished article until 2000 - and even then he managed to get himself knocked out by a single punch - and that matters. None of the other fighters that frequent top ten discussions went out so meekly.

by huw Wed 24 Jul 2013, 10:22 am

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Tyrell Biggs being hailed as anything relating to a good win gives me a good indication of the posters who know naff all, amateur records mean nothing but being a damn average pro means a lot. I would say that win for Tyson is inconsequential when evaluating his placing, we may as well proclaim Harrison as a worthwhile win for Haye.

Lewis didn't have an iron chin but despite the McCall and Rahman fights suggesting otherwise it was pretty good when he needed to take a shot, Briggs wasn't anything special but he could hit and hit hard, landed on Lewis resulting in a small wobble suggesting his chin wasn't that bad.

Lewis at 4
Tyson at 12

Only quoting as a tribute to the tribute you have given in your user name

For me you have to look at this argument in two sections, head to head and overall ranking.

Head to head:

Don't feel the mind games would come into the equation as Lewis was just too laid back to be fazed by Tyson's reputation which to me would make this more about the actual skill sets.

This could be very close as both had the answer to the others main attributes.

Tyson had the head movement and great footwork to be able to get in and use what was incredible power. Lewis had the reach, jab and power to be able to nullify this.

Peak vs peak I would say that this is a 50/50 fight. Could see them sharing a series and could see either of them winning 2-1 in some very entertaining fights.

Can't see anyway to split them and would have them sharing the same spot in the rankings.

Overall Ranking:

This would have to go to Lewis, he just had the longer career and avenged the couple of losses he did have. You have to take the later fights in Tyson's career into account here, his peak was so short and his decline so sudden and drawn out that is has to play a part.

There wouldn't be a huge difference between them, in my mind probably around 5-6 places with Lewis being a top 5 heavy and Tyson around the 10th position.

If Tyson is going to get a pass for his losses then you would have to use the same measure for other fighters:

Naz - only lost to Barrera and at the time he wasn't training, had problems with his hands, fell out of love with boxing. A genuine top 20 best ever without the loss.

Hatton - he was matched against Mayweather at a weight he wasn't comfortable at, his lifestyle had finally caught up when he was beaten by Pacquiao. A genuine top 20 fighter.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 24 Jul 2013, 10:57 am

The Terror of Tylorstown wrote:Tyrell Biggs being hailed as anything relating to a good win gives me a good indication of the posters who know naff all, amateur records mean nothing but being a damn average pro means a lot. I would say that win for Tyson is inconsequential when evaluating his placing, we may as well proclaim Harrison as a worthwhile win for Haye.

Lewis didn't have an iron chin but despite the McCall and Rahman fights suggesting otherwise it was pretty good when he needed to take a shot, Briggs wasn't anything special but he could hit and hit hard, landed on Lewis resulting in a small wobble suggesting his chin wasn't that bad.

Lewis at 4
Tyson at 12

Lewis at 4!!!!.....Yeah I know naff all..

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