Robbie Deans is a Trojan Kiwi

Robbie Deans has had his fair share of critics on both sides of the Tasman. His decision not to include Quade Cooper in the Lions squad seems to have been the final straw for Aussie commentator Greg Martin.

Cooper last year criticised Deans for creating a toxic environment and Martin claims that Deans is putting pride before the team and is choosing to snub Cooper because of his comments last year. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/8542231/Deans-wants-to-sabotage-Aussie-rugby

Is this a justified comment or is it a foam-mouthed rant? Is there a conspiracy theory to flood international teams with Kiwi coaches and put key refs in the pocket of the NZRFU to serve NZ's interests and continue our domination of world rugby?

Robbie deans is a very good coach, just not the right coach for australia.

Deans comes from a canterbury background where rugby is staunch, and very organised, and players and coaches comply with the long time tried and tested Canterbury processes and procedures. problem is the Australian attitude to rugby is far more free spirited and ad lib. I just cant understand how he's kept his job for so long.

I really dont blame Deans at all for leaving Cooper out.

Cooper clearly thinks he is bigger than the team when he is not and never will be. You cant expect to publically criticise your coach and not suffer the consequences. Its not the first time he has been out of line too.

In any case Cooper has never really been that good for Australia. He is a very exciting player to watch but not sure dropping him harms the Aussies chances that much as they have a lot of options at OH.

In recent years the Australian team has had quite a few issues with off field dicipline:

Cooper robbing houses.
Tuiquiri was given a few warnings before being given the boot.
Giteau I believe fell out with Deans too before getting the chop.
Bieber getting peed and not showing up to training.
Beale punch up.

I think Deans it just trying to implement a zero tolerance stance for the good of the team. It has worked for Lancaster of England so I think Deans should be commended for making a tough call for the good of Australian rugby.

He's just not done enough in 5 years in the job. At 59% and around 4-5 tests lost every year and nothing to show for it bar one 3N in WCup year I just can't see how he's stiil there. For one he's buried any chance of an AB job.

Taylorman wrote: He's just not done enough in 5 years in the job. At 59% and around 4-5 tests lost every year and nothing to show for it bar one 3N in WCup year I just can't see how he's stiil there. For one he's buried any chance of an AB job.

Who do you think should be coach?

I think Deans has made mistakes with selections, his use of the bench and his gameplan but I also feel that he cops a lot more criticism than he deserves. You can't play an expansive game when you have so many injuries and so many untried combinations. The Aussie defence is a hallmark of their game yet when they don't score many tries people tend to focus on that.

I still don't understand how they finished 2nd last year in the RC when it seemed every ruck had an Aussie player going down injured. A lot can be attributed to the inspirational captaincy of Sharpe and a banding together of the group under impossible situations but I think no one seems willing to give any credit to Deans.

He will get a lot of credit if Australian win the Lions test series. Cant see it happening though.

Just when you think Australia are there for the taking, that's when they're at their most dangerous. No other side is better at hiding their weaknesses and maximising their strengths.

The wallabies have to beat the lions in the interests of Dingos CV and his future aspirations in the game in New Zealand, however Gatty is in exactly the same situation.

GunsGerms wrote:He will get a lot of credit if Australian win the Lions test series. Cant see it happening though.

I think they'll beat the Lions- the depth is there more this year and they cant possibly have the injury run they had last two years.
Its still a big ask for any NH side to come to the SH and win a series, including the Lions, who have lost the last 3 tours.
Closest in the '01 tour admittedly but still a loss.

The one win draw from 9 tests in the main 3 tours last year continue the trend.

Make no mistake, the Lions have a tough job ahead of them to buck the trend.

Lions teams tend to leave with high aspirations- 2005 a good example- the best team/ coach etc to leave the shores...yet were blown off the map. Just an example of how they can get it oh so wrong.

Best Lions team? Nah-Woodward was still stuck in 03 so he didn't even pick the best players available. That was despite having the population of St Albans on the plane.

I think Dean's has said that exclusion from this preliminary squad doesnt definitively mean that player wont make the final squad so Cooper probably still will be included as will Beale who has also been left out.

Its not exactly surprising that the media might try to put pressure on Deans to pick certian players in particular crowd favorites prior to the final squad being announced.

disneychilly wrote:Best Lions team? Nah-Woodward was still stuck in 03 so he didn't even pick the best players available. That was despite having the population of St Albans on the plane.

Would have to agree. Plus I would say the current crop of Lions is likely to be much stronger than '05 IMO.

05 on paper could have been very strong.... a backline of Wilkinson, Henson & O'Driscoll could have been fantastic. But if your players are not fit then its a non-starter.

Henson was fit wasn't he? Maybe he was spewing that a guy that was better looking than he was was playing rugby better than he ever could...

Deans' chances of ever taking the AB job have been severely impacted by the 03 debacle. No Cullen, no Mehrtens (i.e. no plan B should Spencer fail which he did) and no playing of a fit Umaga, a specialist centre, in a semi against a team whose 13 routinely played fantastically against us. You could see his predjudices affect his better judgment sometimes then and you can now. I genuinely think he wants to do bloody well for Aussie, at least to give a two finger job to the NZRU, but the NZ hoodoo and his approach is obviously leaving something to be desired.

Who in their right mind blames a coach for dropping a player who acts like Cooper did?!?!?!

He and Beale have been problems for a while (despite being supremely talented) and if Deans wants to win this series (which will be extremely difficult) he has to have a solid unit, and a very good team spirit.

Bravo to Deans I say!

disneychilly wrote:Henson was fit wasn't he? Maybe he was spewing that a guy that was better looking than he was was playing rugby better than he ever could...

Deans' chances of ever taking the AB job have been severely impacted by the 03 debacle. No Cullen, no Mehrtens (i.e. no plan B should Spencer fail which he did) and no playing of a fit Umaga, a specialist centre, in a semi against a team whose 13 routinely played fantastically against us. You could see his predjudices affect his better judgment sometimes then and you can now. I genuinely think he wants to do bloody well for Aussie, at least to give a two finger job to the NZRU, but the NZ hoodoo and his approach is obviously leaving something to be desired.

Drico isnt that good looking for a Leinster man.

GunsGerms wrote:He will get a lot of credit if Australian win the Lions test series. Cant see it happening though.

WHY???

GunsGerms wrote:

disneychilly wrote:Best Lions team? Nah-Woodward was still stuck in 03 so he didn't even pick the best players available. That was despite having the population of St Albans on the plane.

Would have to agree. Plus I would say the current crop of Lions is likely to be much stronger than '05 IMO.

People tend to forget easily after the fact. Woodward brought a 44 strong squad and a huge management team and PRE-TOUR there was a huge amount of talk about how they were going to beat the AB's. Sure there were detractors but it is only in hindsight that it is considered a weak side.

So why does this side look stronger than the 05 side?

For one theres been no recent world cup won by any of the four. 3 of the 4 were winless on tour last year and the AI's generally went the same way. Combine that with a mostly dour try-less 6N where the middle rounds were poor in quality, and the inability of any of the 6 sides to be consistent in attack doesnt suggest in any way that this will be stronger. Is it perhaps more that the competition will be weaker?

Besides that the 05 side at least had greats of the game touring- Wilko, Johnson, Hill, Williams, Robinson, Moody, BOD, POC, Lawrence D etc.

This year there are nothing like those names (unless theyre the same ones!) so although theres possibly a lot of hope, theres not a lot of evidence that suggests a strong showing.

Well Cooper sure is making it hard not to be picked with a sublime and easy performance today vs the Chiefs. Still 10 to go but Genia and Cooper together is the best pairing around at the mo.

Not holding my breath but I think Gatland could be the new NZ coach after the 2015 especially if NZ fail. Wales will be looking for someone lol

rainbow-warrior wrote:Not holding my breath but I think Gatland could be the new NZ coach after the 2015 especially if NZ fail. Wales will be looking for someone lol

Why would we want Gatland? He aint won anything.

Taylorman wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:Not holding my breath but I think Gatland could be the new NZ coach after the 2015 especially if NZ fail. Wales will be looking for someone lol

Why would we want Gatland? He aint won anything.

Nor had Ted.

But Ted had potential.

Ted won numerous NPC's and 2 Superxv's...then had a break...ample qualification.

Biltong wrote:But Ted had potential.

Not after the Lion's loss in Australia and 2007.

Gatland has potential...he just hasnt shown it yet.

Besides rainbow, cant Wales find one of their own?

Theres only a few kiwi's left at home with everyone coaching all over the globe. Its ok, I'll phone the local 3rd div club- theyve just retired him cos of his dementia. Should be just right for Wales in '16. Leave it with me.

Plus...he was at the last Wales win in 54 so he'll have something unique to share with the boys. And you don't have to thank me...think of it as a favour.

Taylorman wrote:Besides rainbow, cant Wales find one of their own?

Theres only a few kiwi's left at home with everyone coaching all over the globe. Its ok, I'll phone the local 3rd div club- theyve just retired him cos of his dementia. Should be just right for Wales in '16. Leave it with me.

Plus...he was at the last Wales win in 54 so he'll have something unique to share with the boys. And you don't have to thank me...think of it as a favour.

Pointless post there, but your viewpoint is important to us even though your rugby history stinks

Just a bit of fun rainbow. The 'pointless' part was initiated by your gatland/ wales coach (which he isnt even) and NZ losing post, none of which had anything to do with Deans selections in Oz, so I thought I'd take you down memory lane since you opened the door...agree though...pointless is as pointless was...

Taylorman wrote:Just a bit of fun rainbow. The 'pointless' part was initiated by your gatland/ wales coach (which he isnt even) and NZ losing post, none of which had anything to do with Deans selections in Oz, so I thought I'd take you down memory lane since you opened the door...agree though...pointless is as pointless was...

Again Taylor, you set a low standard and fail to achieve it. Gatland is still THE Welsh coach, there was an agreement made between WRU to allow him to have a jolly with the Lions for 12 months. I guess the NZ losing bit must be in relation to 2015 World Cup. You won't win that anyway, you are homers..only win it at home:)

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Just a bit of fun rainbow. The 'pointless' part was initiated by your gatland/ wales coach (which he isnt even) and NZ losing post, none of which had anything to do with Deans selections in Oz, so I thought I'd take you down memory lane since you opened the door...agree though...pointless is as pointless was...

Again Taylor, you set a low standard and fail to achieve it. Gatland is still THE Welsh coach, there was an agreement made between WRU to allow him to have a jolly with the Lions for 12 months. I guess the NZ losing bit must be in relation to 2015 World Cup. You won't win that anyway, you are homers..only win it at home:)

The things that keep Gatland from coaching Wales...Lions and Ladders. Anyone would think he's avoiding it.
Of course we'll win 2015. We will be favourites, there will be TMO's which in '07 would have picked the forward pass up, and we'll be bringing our own lunch packs.

All bases are covered. All we need to do is play rugby. So pull up a chair, stop fighting it, and enjoy the ride for once!

Taylorman wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Just a bit of fun rainbow. The 'pointless' part was initiated by your gatland/ wales coach (which he isnt even) and NZ losing post, none of which had anything to do with Deans selections in Oz, so I thought I'd take you down memory lane since you opened the door...agree though...pointless is as pointless was...

Again Taylor, you set a low standard and fail to achieve it. Gatland is still THE Welsh coach, there was an agreement made between WRU to allow him to have a jolly with the Lions for 12 months. I guess the NZ losing bit must be in relation to 2015 World Cup. You won't win that anyway, you are homers..only win it at home:)

The things that keep Gatland from coaching Wales...Lions and Ladders. Anyone would think he's avoiding it.
Of course we'll win 2015. We will be favourites, there will be TMO's which in '07 would have picked the forward pass up, and we'll be bringing our own lunch packs.

All bases are covered. All we need to do is play rugby. So pull up a chair, stop fighting it, and enjoy the ride for once!

That's the sad thing tough aye, you never have won it away from NZ and there are always sorry little excuses for when you lose rather than congratulating the team for beating you. Anyway I would not trust a kiwi with a ladder it's too complicated.

Yes youre in that "Cant use the choking anymore so we'll use the never away from home' brigade...what will you use next time-'can't win it on one foot'?

You haven't won on Mars yet

2005 should have been

Peel
Jones
Williams
Henson
BOD
Thomas
Robinson

Unfortunately it wouldn't have have mattered. We just didn't have the forwards.

Dangerous game to play the never have so never will rainbow. Wales have never won a World Cup so do you really want to think that they never will?

You haven't won it backwards yet.

yappysnap wrote:You haven't won it backwards yet.

We nearly won it vomittting though...does that count?

I reckon Aus will beat the ABs once this year and win the RC and take the Lions 2-1.
Then they'll fire him

You may well be right. I think 2-1 may be on the cards (hopefully more) and maybe... just maybe - a win over you guys.

Linebreaker wrote:You may well be right. I think 2-1 may be on the cards (hopefully more) and maybe... just maybe - a win over you guys.

Agree...I've had 2-1 ringing in my ears for a while now from another conversation- and the 1 could be any of the 3 for different but equally valid reasons. Just can't see Oz dropping two matches. One definitely, two...possibly, but not the first two. 3, not gonna happen unless injuries kick in big time. They're too good to lose to anyone 3 straight. We've done it on the odd occasion but not easily at all. And the Lions dont win series to zip...not that I can recall- 74 was closest from memory.

A similar debate occurred last year with the June series. The first test was seen by many as the best time to secure a win but if a team plays well the first or second game, it's more likely the opposition will come back stronger because it's difficult to string together complete sets of performances.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:A similar debate occurred last year with the June series. The first test was seen by many as the best time to secure a win but if a team plays well the first or second game, it's more likely the opposition will come back stronger because it's difficult to string together complete sets of performances.

And if you look at the lions 2001 and 09 they had wildly reversing scorelines. 01 oz got stunned in the first and came back to steal the decider, in 09 after two tough matches the lions ripped the 3rd as if to say they should have won the series.

I think theyll do the same in one of these. I think theyll completely own one test at least. Its whether they can steal another, they just missed doing that in both 01 and 09 in the last minutes.

I dont think 3-0 to oz is likely either.

Robbie needs to put personal issues aside:


http://rugbynews.realviewdigital.com/?iid=76275&sr=0#folio=35

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Robbie needs to put personal issues aside:


http://rugbynews.realviewdigital.com/?iid=76275&sr=0#folio=35

It's a worry.

Also Drew Mitchell is about to sign with Toulon. Maybe Robbie has already told him he's not required in the near future? I wonder what he said to RD... because it all seemed to happen quite quickly.

LB
I think the fall out between George Smith and Dingo goes back to about two or three years ago when Phil Waugh didnt like being told what to do.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Robbie needs to put personal issues aside:


http://rugbynews.realviewdigital.com/?iid=76275&sr=0#folio=35

How is dropping Cooper or Beale any different to the ABs finding no room for Guildford for example? If a player continously acts in a destructive manner that is affecting the team then zero tolerance is the only way to go IMO.

Its quite a bit different, Gunsgerms, for a start the All Blacks always have had other alternatives at wing besides Guilford, Moreover, Guilford never came out in the media and said that Hansen's All black organisation as "toxic."

What is probably more relevant is the way that Deans treated Christian Cullen and Andrew Mehrtens.

Is it Deans that treated merts and Cullen that way or Mitchell laurie?
Honestly cannot recall...