Glasgow Warriors v Ulster, Scotstoun, Friday 22 February 2013, 1935 hrs

First topic message reminder :

Huge game for The Warriors and a real test for the so called 'dirt trackers' against the top of the table. Who starts at FH with Wee Dunky presumably back with Scotland for the Sunday 6Ns? Does The Messiah start or Peter Horne (if available)? Who goes at hooker with Pat MacA back with Scotland and Dougie Hall and Fin Gillies injured ? Where do we play Mata - SH please Toonster ? The previous games this season at Ravenhill and Scotstoun have been too easy for Ulster so we need to big up, front up and play the game we are capable of starting with the forward battle.

Looks like it will be a sell out boys and girls so get your tickets soon. My one and two teams in the Rabo going head to head at two and one in the league - cannot wait to see who will be !

I'm very worried we are caught in a vicious cycle of injury. Our injured players are missing putting pressure on us to get players back from injury, who then suffer from recurrent injuries. I think the rugby calendar is oversaturated, teams in the Pro12 are not equipped to cope with this much rugby. A complete break in the Six Nations would make such a difference.

Nevertheless, I believe in the remaining players' ability to get a result.

You have a few out we have a few coming back and straight to Scotland, which does not really help us esp the U20s with and J Gray.

Notch as I mentioned it could be 25.

It will be somewhere between 18 and 25 depending on Irish releases and the less critical injuries.

Notch wrote:I'm very worried we are caught in a vicious cycle of injury. Our injured players are missing putting pressure on us to get players back from injury, who then suffer from recurrent injuries. I think the rugby calendar is oversaturated, teams in the Pro12 are not equipped to cope with this much rugby. A complete break in the Six Nations would make such a difference.

Nevertheless, I believe in the remaining players' ability to get a result.

Injuries seem to be getting worse and worse and not just at Ulster, all across Ireland over the past few seasons. Its not even just the aging players but the younger guys too.

Do questions need to be asked about the physios and backroom staff or is it just the the game is becoming more physical and intense?

Wow lads! You could have more missing players than Leinster for a change.

We are only missing 20 out of 40.

11 to Ireland. 2 suspended and 7 injured.

You could be missing up to 25 of 41?

This run of injuries is really threatening our season. I would hope we have Stevenson and cave returning from Ireland duty. Tuohy still out? Michael Allen? Wallace?

Black, herring, Afoa, Stevenson?, Tuohy? McComb, Birch, Diack, Pienaar, Olding, Allen? Wallace?, Cave?, Trimble, Andrew

Question marks are potentially injured guys or ireland releases. Genuinely can't think of a worse run of injuries at the club. Glasgows to lose sadly

To be fair, if the league wasn't played during the 6 nations, would we have complaints about the non internationals being rested while the internationals are worn out? or Non internationals being rustly after such a long lay off?

IMO what I'd like is a cup to be played durning the 6 nations. Would keep players fit, and wouldn't be as important as the leauge, but how to create the space, if H-cup is reduced that should be two extra weekends?

Standulstermen wrote:This run of injuries is really threatening our season. I would hope we have Stevenson and cave returning from Ireland duty. Tuohy still out? Michael Allen? Wallace?

Black, herring, Afoa, Stevenson?, Tuohy? McComb, Birch, Diack, Pienaar, Olding, Allen? Wallace?, Cave?, Trimble, Andrew

Question marks are potentially injured guys or ireland releases. Genuinely can't think of a worse run of injuries at the club. Glasgows to lose sadly

Glasgow had a similar number missing around the start of the HC. Luckily for us, we have had players return just as the 6 Nations call ups started.

For Friday we will be missing around 20 players, due to injuries, Scotland and 20s duty.

Much will depend here on how many players Glasgow get back from the Scotland squad and the U20s, however I'm pretty confident that Glasgow will win this (although I think Scotland will lose though so let's just say honours even).

They key issue for Glasgow will I think be the performance of Scott Wight at 10 (assuming Weir stays on the Scotland bench). Wight hasn't had a bad season, but has made one or two errors recently and by all accounts will be leaving at the end of the season. A big game is needed from him here. What should help him is having Matawalu at 9 causing the Ulster back rwo to think twice before fanning out, and Horne at 12 who is comfortable taking on game management responsibilities.

Glasgow's big worry will be Pienaar. A player who knows how to run a game and has in the past caused Glasgow serious problems.

I think Glasgow by 5, with Ulster nabbing a LBP.

Can Glasgow not take players from the 20s - Ulster can and will otherwise we would be losing even more

Everyone is in the same boat lads. It's a function of the way the calendar is in the Northern Hemisphere. Our calendar is a holdover from amateur rugby and it may need to be rethought as the game becomes more and more physical.

Notch wrote:Everyone is in the same boat lads. It's a function of the way the calendar is in the Northern Hemisphere. Our calendar is a holdover from amateur rugby and it may need to be rethought as the game becomes more and more physical.

Absolutely, just pointing out that both teams will be seriously understrength-ed. It might just seem worse for Ulster due to the fact that they would not have been anticipating so many being unavailable a few weeks back.

geoff998rugby wrote:Can Glasgow not take players from the 20s - Ulster can and will otherwise we would be losing even more

In previous year yes, but this year we have not had our 3 Under 20s and certainly for the Aironi game, they would have featured for Glasgow.

I am fine with this as Gray and Bennett have been excellent for the 20s and our age groups sides have been uncompetitive for too long.

Surely Ulster can call on AIL players? Munster have done this in the past - Ciaran O'Boyle, Ger Slattery, Gerry Hurley, Barry O'Mahony and James Coughlan are lads who've got called up in the past as stand ins for Munster games despite just being AIL lads.

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Can Glasgow not take players from the 20s - Ulster can and will otherwise we would be losing even more

In previous year yes, but this year we have not had our 3 Under 20s and certainly for the Aironi game, they would have featured for Glasgow.

I am fine with this as Gray and Bennett have been excellent for the 20s and our age groups sides have been uncompetitive for too long.

I'm surprised to hear you say this. Gray I can understand - Swinson and Ryder will start and Nick Campbell can sit on the bench - but surely Bennett should play 13 for Glasgow ahead of 12 for the U20s?

If Horne and Dunbar both are released by Scotland then fine, but surely you don't want McGuigan or Morrison in the centres for such a key game?

Bennett needs Rabo12 rugby. His development is going nowhere in the U20s. This is a perfect game for him. It'll be full of intensity and a win would mean a great deal to Glasgow.

Ulster Squad up

Ulster squad - forwards: R Herring, N Brady, R Lutton, C Black, A Warwick, J Afoa, N McComb, A O'Connor, J Simpson, D Tuohy, M McComish, C Joyce, A Birch, R Diack.

Backs: R Pienaar, P Marshall, M Heaney, N O'Connor, S Olding, P Wallace, M Allen, A Trimble, C Cochrane, N Walsh, R Andrew.

Tuohy included hope he's fit for the game

Backrow and back three look to be hit hard shanker.

But you've got it where it counts - in the tight five, the half backs and the centres.

Well I think my team from that presuming no one is released to it and it's unlikely anyone would be.
Black, Herring, Afoa, McComb, Tuohy, Joyce, Brich, Diack
Pienaar, Olding, Cochraine, Wallace, Allen, Trimble, Andrew

McComish will probably play though having said that. I'd be worried about Herring with a Lock who isn't fully fit and one young one. Back row could be an issue no huge ball carrier although Afoa will help there. Olding will have to do well so hopefully he can step up. Hopefull Ricky Andrew continues his good run of form, we won't have much on the bench so that team is going to have to get the job done.

No Annett? I thought Brady had done a Barker??

I'd go for

1. Black 2. Herring 3. Afoa 4. McComb 5. Tuohy 6. McComish 7. Birch 8 Diack
9. Pienaar 10. Olding 11. Cochrane 12. Wallace 13. Allen 14. Trimble 15. Andrew
16. Brady 17. Lutton 18. Warwick 19. A O'Connor 20. Joyce 21. P. Marshall 22. N O'Connor 23. Walsh

Nigel Brady will most likely Captain then! No surprise to see him recalled given the problems we've had this week. He's winding down and we're phasing Annett in to replace him but needs must. Team pretty much picks itself.

Black Brady Afoa
McComb Tuohy
McComish Diack Birch
Pienaar Olding
Wallace Allen
Trimble Andrew Cochrane

A lot depends on the set piece. If we can get a nudge on in the scrum and Pienaar is kicking well from hand we could generate enough momentum that way. Should our tight five be matches I have serious misgiving about our backrow. Maybe with a lack of ball carriers across the board.

Don's Team:


1) Black
2) Herring
3) Afoa
4) Tuohy
5) McComb
6) Joyce
7) Birch
8) Diack
9) Pienaar
10) Olding
11) Cochrane
12) Wallace
13) Allen
14) Trimble
15) Andrew

With a bench of
16) Lutton
17) Brady
18) Warwick
19) O’Connor
20) McComish
21) Marshall
22) O'Connor
23) Walsh

I'd never use O'Connor (N.), but we dont have any other backs to put on the bench!

Is Annett injured as well now? Also, I do wonder about Heaney instead of Marshall - he’s been good. I’ve seen O’Connor feature before – is he ahead of Simpson?

That's a point... don't know who'd captain my team... maybe Brady has to start...

Or maybe Diack?

Big John or Paddy W to captain I reckon Notch. Both have done so this season.

And yeah Don was tempted to go for Heaney and Marshall on the bench... I'm sure Small P could do a decent turn as a winger!

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:No Annett? I thought Brady had done a Barker??

I'd go for

1. Black 2. Herring 3. Afoa 4. McComb 5. Tuohy 6. McComish 7. Birch 8 Diack
9. Pienaar 10. Olding 11. Cochrane 12. Wallace 13. Allen 14. Trimble 15. Andrew
16. Brady 17. Lutton 18. Warwick 19. A O'Connor 20. Joyce 21. P. Marshall 22. N O'Connor 23. Walsh

Not too bad. Presumably O'Connor at 4 if Tuohy doesn't make it and Simpson to the bench?

I'd say you will get Cave back from Ireland duty.

Has Heaney ever played FB at a lower level? Or is that something I imagined?

I remember him playing there for the Ravens...

Yeah Jen more than likely, and if we get Cave back then Allen to the wing and Ghost onto the bench for Walsh/O'Connor (hopefully O'Connor!)

Brady had done a Barker - not at training recently.

Annett must be injured - so basically we are desperate.

Brady wont start so Wallace/Afoa or Pienaer for Captain I reckon.

Not one Irish squad player released.



We are weak in both the second row and the back row - I will be surprised if we win this.

red_stag wrote:Surely Ulster can call on AIL players? Munster have done this in the past - Ciaran O'Boyle, Ger Slattery, Gerry Hurley, Barry O'Mahony and James Coughlan are lads who've got called up in the past as stand ins for Munster games despite just being AIL lads.

They can but outside the existing squad not a lot of talent to be honest - we would rather give kids a go

geoff998rugby wrote:Brady had done a Barker - not at training recently.

Annett must be injured - so basically we are desperate.

Brady wont start so Wallace/Afoa or Pienaer for Captain I reckon.

Not one Irish squad player released.



We are weak in both the second row and the back row - I will be surprised if we win this.

Surely they won't be released until at least Thursday?

red_stag wrote:Backrow and back three look to be hit hard shanker.

But you've got it where it counts - in the tight five, the half backs and the centres.

Don't know about that - a semi fit Tuohy and McComb is not a strong second row.

A rookie, albeit talented 10, and a rookie 13 dont make us strong in those positions either

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Brady had done a Barker - not at training recently.

Annett must be injured - so basically we are desperate.

Brady wont start so Wallace/Afoa or Pienaer for Captain I reckon.

Not one Irish squad player released.



We are weak in both the second row and the back row - I will be surprised if we win this.

Surely they won't be released until at least Thursday?

True but if we think they could play we have, in the past anyway, named them in the extended squad.

That what we did last time

I don't think we will get them back anyways. If you think about it Ireland need them no McCarthy with Ryan not training so Lewis will almost certainly stay around. Court, Best and Gilroy obviously will be in the squad, hendo and jackson wont be back and Marshall will probs play if he is fit and Cave will be needed to cover with no D'Arcy and Drico still dodgy injury wise. So I don't think we will get any back, Cave is the most likely to come back though if any do.

Court, Best, Fitzpatrick, Gilroy - no chance all nailed on for the 23.

Jackson is one of only two 10's in the squad - cant see it.

Marshall is the only natural 12 in the squad - cant see it.

Henderson will almost certaintly take a bench spot

Cave is there to cover BOD - best chance of a return

Stevenson will be need for the bench if Ryan doesn't make it (Ryan did not train last week)

I think we will get cave back. To be honest if we rate the two young 2nd rows as Geoff hinted to previously I would start one of them and move McComb to 6. It would give us 4 genuine targets at line out time and McComb doesn't lack for dynamism or mobility.

I am also tempted to start Heaney and play Ruan at 10 but that is tempered by wanting to see Olding get game time. I think if Tuohy can be fit and find some carrying form, with McCob and Afoa in there we may generate some go forward for the half backs to work off.

More than likely we will try to get the nudge up front and rely on Ruan to kick us into territory though

Some update on Brady and its good news.

He has not been at training but, unlike Barker, it is was with the blessing of the club. Basically the thinking was with three other hookers we would not need him. However clearly we had not consider the extent of the injurues and the feeling is we may need his experience this week.

My only hope is he hasn't drunk too much guiness or eaten too many beef (horse) pies in the interim.

Relieved that he hasn't blotted his copy book.

After such distinquished service he deserves to go out on a high. 4 points against Glasgow would be a nice way to leave

geoff998rugby wrote:Some update on Brady and its good news.

He has not been at training but, unlike Barker, it is was with the blessing of the club. Basically the thinking was with three other hookers we would not need him. However clearly we had not consider the extent of the injurues and the feeling is we may need his experience this week.

My only hope is he hasn't drunk too much guiness or eaten too many beef (horse) pies in the interim.

Relieved that he hasn't blotted his copy book.

After such distinquished service he deserves to go out on a high. 4 points against Glasgow would be a nice way to leave

Was speaking with one of Ulsters ex strength and conditioning staff not long ago who spoke about Brady in glowing terms. Said he was one of the most professional players in the squad when it came to conditioning, that he has been on a maintainance plan for the last few years which keeps him fit enough to slot in and play every now and again when needed, that he understands his role in the club.

Interesting rumours that John Barclay may be going to Toulon or Leicester at the end of the season. (Also that Richie Gray was being schmoozed by Castres )

so not too many Horse pies then Rodders - good to hear

I must admit him going AWOL would have been out of character.

So he is just slowly drifting into graceful retirement then

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Dorothy_Mantooth wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Can Glasgow not take players from the 20s - Ulster can and will otherwise we would be losing even more

In previous year yes, but this year we have not had our 3 Under 20s and certainly for the Aironi game, they would have featured for Glasgow.

I am fine with this as Gray and Bennett have been excellent for the 20s and our age groups sides have been uncompetitive for too long.

I'm surprised to hear you say this. Gray I can understand - Swinson and Ryder will start and Nick Campbell can sit on the bench - but surely Bennett should play 13 for Glasgow ahead of 12 for the U20s?

If Horne and Dunbar both are released by Scotland then fine, but surely you don't want McGuigan or Morrison in the centres for such a key game?

Bennett needs Rabo12 rugby. His development is going nowhere in the U20s. This is a perfect game for him. It'll be full of intensity and a win would mean a great deal to Glasgow.

Someone must be listening to you! Bennett is not on the Scotland 20s squad for the weekend, safe to assume he will feature for Glasgow, unless he is injured of course.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Interesting rumours that John Barclay may be going to Toulon or Leicester at the end of the season. (Also that Richie Gray was being schmoozed by Castres )

I kind of wouldn't mind if John Barclay went to Leicester, it might be the breath of fresh air he needs to get his mojo back? would also give Fusaro some much needed time at openside for Glasgow but then strength in depth and all that... dunno if I'd be as happy about him going to Toulon and being stuck behind Armitage

Unless Bennett's playing for Scotland senior squad, Dot, altho then fES would have conniptions! Jonny Gray with U20s tho, so Nick Campbell in as replacement presumably?

Tramptastic wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Interesting rumours that John Barclay may be going to Toulon or Leicester at the end of the season. (Also that Richie Gray was being schmoozed by Castres )

I kind of wouldn't mind if John Barclay went to Leicester, it might be the breath of fresh air he needs to get his mojo back? would also give Fusaro some much needed time at openside for Glasgow but then strength in depth and all that... dunno if I'd be as happy about him going to Toulon and being stuck behind Armitage

That's not the silliest rumour in the world - apparently, the Tigers really liked Kvesic but lost him to the Cherries.

Interestingly, I also read that the reason Barclay might be going to Toulon is because Armitage might be heading to the Tigers himself.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Unless Bennett's playing for Scotland senior squad, Dot, altho then fES would have conniptions! Jonny Gray with U20s tho, so Nick Campbell in as replacement presumably?

Well he's apparently already better than BOD ever was, so actually I'd have no issues.......

Pleased to see common sense prevail with Bennett.

Barclay to Leicester would make some sense.

They have Salvi for the international window and Barclay would really add something in my view.

The question would be salary I suspect. Leicester won't pay over the odds, and Toulon will offer more money.

I'd rather he go to Leicester personally.

Does anyone else get the sense that there may be over-inflation of egos at Toulon? or certainly massaging of egos? Too many players with "attitude" issues like D.Armitage, Giteau, Bastareaud... Don't want Barclay caught up in that! Think Leicester would keep him grounded as they seem to be rather good at doing that

Not to say that there aren't players who don't think too highly of themselves - Wilkinson, Shaw, Van Nierkirk probably - but Leicester seems like a better fit!

None of Dunbar, Horne, Murchie, MacArthur, Ryder, Kennedy or Barclay named in the Scotland squad - not sure if any will be needed as backup/24th man or something though, but got to be in with a chance of Glasgow selection

Based on the Scotland full and U20 selections, I think this means the strongest team we can put out for Ulster is:

15 Peter Murchie
14 Rory Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 DTH van der Merwe
10 Scott Wight
9 Niko Matawalu

1 Gordon Reid
2 Pat MacArthur
3 Ed Kalman
4 Tim Swinson
5 Tom Ryder
6 Josh Strauss
7 John Barclay
8 Ryan Wilson (captain)

Bench to include Gezzy, Big Ofa, Jedi, Paris and Horne.

That's an incredibly strong pack if that's the one which takes the pitch.

Like the look of that, GC

George Carlin wrote:Based on the Scotland full and U20 selections, I think this means the strongest team we can put out for Ulster is:

15 Peter Murchie
14 Rory Lamont
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 DTH van der Merwe
10 Scott Wight
9 Niko Matawalu

1 Gordon Reid
2 Pat MacArthur
3 Ed Kalman
4 Tim Swinson
5 Tom Ryder
6 Josh Strauss
7 John Barclay
8 Ryan Wilson (captain)

Bench to include Gezzy, Big Ofa, Jedi, Paris and Horne.

That's an incredibly strong pack if that's the one which takes the pitch.

Be interesting to see if Barclay, Horne/Dunbar and McArthur are kept with Scotland as cover. Hope not as this is a big game for Glasgow.