Life without the Kiltschkos.

Just a hypothetical here, and entirely a pointless one at that. Say the Klitschkos were to disappear overnight and everyone is willing to fight everyone else (I know, crazy, right?). All the belts are now vacant. Who do we feel would emerge as the top dog after the dust settles? Or, if you fancy sitting on the fence, which four fighters would you have holding a belt each? Would Fury beat Haye? Would Price beat Tyson. Seth Mitchell clean up? Or Pulev? Wilder? Would Povetkin finally step up or would he get beaten to the punch by some of the up-and-comers who’ve emerged whilst he’s been biding his time?

Essentially, this is a ‘out of the current second tier (the first tier being the Ks) crop, who, if thrust into the fray, is best?’ best’ kind of question. Would be interested to see what people think either way.

Haye would wins hands down. He would beat either Klitschko fully fit. They aint all that

Haye wouldnt fight he would retire. Plus he wasnt that injured in the wlad fight. Cant see how you can have him winning that one.

Mitchell had a bad loss in the last fight so cant see him really being in the mix too much for a while. After that there isnt a lot to split most of the other rans. I would imagine the belts would be a little bit like pass the parcel

He had a broken toe. Try fighting a full boxing match on a broken toe and tell me its not a problem. He was half crocked for the fight. Why aint either brother rushing back to fight him in England if they think its easy? Haye is easily the best heavyweight out there. Sick power, slick skills and superior speed. The Klitschkos are predictable and easy to read. Haye just couldnt fight his gameplan coz his movement was so restricted. No way the Klitschkos are living with Hayes power when hes fully fit.

If they are so easy to read why have they been champions for so long?

Plenty of fighters have fought with worse injuries and won big fights
If it was that bad why not push the fight back a few weeks?

severe-mma wrote:He had a broken toe. Try fighting a full boxing match on a broken toe and tell me its not a problem. He was half crocked for the fight. Why aint either brother rushing back to fight him in England if they think its easy? Haye is easily the best heavyweight out there. Sick power, slick skills and superior speed. The Klitschkos are predictable and easy to read. Haye just couldnt fight his gameplan coz his movement was so restricted. No way the Klitschkos are living with Hayes power when hes fully fit.

But not so easy to beat!

If they are so predictable how have they lost only 5 of 103 fights? I'm not even going to entertain the possibility that anyone could make even a remote case for Haye being the best heavyweight. He talked smack, beat nobody, was gifted the title and lost pretty much every round against Wladimir.

Haye didnt want to let down the fans who had booked tickets and travelled. Plus people would have accused him of faking it if he pulled out. Fair play to him for having the balls to go for it. He probably didnt expect the Klitschkos to avoid him for a rematch. If you watch the way Haye and the Klitschkos box its obvious Haye has bags more ability. The Klitschkos dont fight anyone good really. Before Haye nobody had heard of them.

Yeah I guess no one had heard of vitali fighting lewis

MMA, you're talking rubbish, he got beaten fair and square that's all there is to it.

what the hell..

Look, I'll knock this right on the head right now. If you're to take any snippet out, take this: 'Say the Klitschkos were to disappear overnight and everyone is willing to fight everyone else...'.

I'm talking about hypothetical fights, not hypothetical retirements to slope off and then reappear two years later in some kind of explosion movie involving Johnny Knoxville and someone from Dawson's Creek who used to think they were the 5h1t but now needs the cash after realising that there's more to making it big in the long term than simply dangling your feet off a peer and starring across a big pond to a Coldplay b-side.

monty junior wrote:If they are so predictable how have they lost only 5 of 103 fights? I'm not even going to entertain the possibility that anyone could make even a remote case for Haye being the best heavyweight. He talked smack, beat nobody, was gifted the title and lost pretty much every round against Wladimir.

Its obvious Haye is a better fighter. What are you judging it on? One fight where Haye was half crocked? Why were the Klitschkos happy to let Haye take care of the big iant for them? Haye put heavyweight boxing back on the map. Before he shook things up the division was boring as hell. Haye got people interested again.

Stop it you're cracking me up.

Qoxiivi wrote:Look, I'll knock this right on the head right now. If you're to take any snippet out, take this: 'Say the Klitschkos were to disappear overnight and everyone is willing to fight everyone else...'.

I'm talking about hypothetical fights, not hypothetical retirements to slope off and then reappear two years later in some kind of explosion movie involving Johnny Knoxville and someone from Dawson's Creek who used to think they were the 5h1t but now needs the cash after realising that there's more to making it big in the long term than simply dangling your feet off a peer and starring across a big pond to a Coldplay b-side.

Haha quality.

18 months ago I would have said povetkin but he seems to have gone backwards. I was hoping boystov would have stepped up but he still seems to be fighting nobodies. The similar difficulties with the upcoming americans around. The problem is everyone out there at the mo seems to have big question marks that still need to be answered. Haye is probably the best of the rest but his resistance to fight anyone but a k bro makes me want to dismiss him as again we have no diffinitive answer.

So all in all ill go with pulev but only as he is probably on the best run right now. But his name coupd easily be dismissed too.

So basically I have splinters in my arse from sitting on this fence

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Stop it you're cracking me up.

Aye and you can sod off and all. Tw@t.

Is waingro back? :-) awesome

severe-mma wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Stop it you're cracking me up.

Aye and you can sod off and all. Tw@t.

Smart way to introduce yourself to the board

severe-mma wrote:Its obvious Haye is a better fighter. What are you judging it on?

The fact that he was soundly beaten by Wladimir, the fact that both the Klitschkos have beaten better fighters than Haye has, the fact that they've been at the top far longer, and so on.

Tell me, what performances of Haye's make it "obvious" that he's the better fighter?

Mma as much as I would have liked haye to have beat wlad he was poor on the night and woupd always start as the underdog. Valuevs promoter wouldnt work with the k bros. So there was no ducking there just business disputes.

Plus ghosty is far from a klitschko fan. He usually talks them down if anything so he isnt being anti haye. Just honest of the situation.

Hayes record at heavyweight is unfortunately patchy at best and the k bros have far better wins on their records if not spectacular names. They have fought pretty much available to them.

They are by no means the greatest heavyweights ever, no one is saying that. You are just underselling them.

Haye has better skills, better movement, wicked power and is much faster. Great, you all seem to be judging him on one fight where he was crippled. Why didnt the Klitschkos step up and fight Valuev? Why wont they fight Haye in England if its such an easy fight? Dont say theres better out there than Haye. A fight with Vitali in England would be huge. Wlad Klitschko hit the jackpot with Haye being crippled for the fight and his big bro knows it so he dont want to fight him. This is one of the problems in boxing. In the UFC this fight would be made happen straight off. Not the fannying around that boxers can get away with. Hayes up for the fight so just get it on!

You're right i'm not their biggest fans but it's quite easy to see that Haye is by far and away the inferior boxer of the three.

I have to admit I'm not a big fan of HW boxing & haven't seen a huge amount of the '2nd tier HW's' outside of the British ones & any view I have of them would be based on the 1 fight I've seen & opinions on here, not the best way to form an opinion.

But if the K bros did retire I do think we would get some decent fights between the rest, I don't think anybody would be ducking anybody but once the titles were all won I wouldn't hold my breath for a unified champion emerging very quickly.

I'm going to go for Haye ( if he were to be interested still) as i think he does have talent & coupled with his speed & power, fully motivated & prepared he's gonna beat most out thier.

Plus with regards no one knowing the brothers before haye they had been selling out football stadiums long before haye was on the heavyweight scene.

Jus because a fghter isnt a household name in england doesnt mean they arent well known around the world it just means that more times than not boxing isnt that big over here any more.

There are lots of brilliant fighters across the divisions that the average person on the street wouldnt have heard about.

However that said vitali having fought hide, lewis and williams it is a suprise you hadnt at least heard of him even if you hadnt heard of wlad

mma is clearly a fake wum profile. surprised people are taking him seriously. He he a new account and the first thing he does is talk nonsense and tell people to sod off. obviously a fake wum profile.

Just bore off, we've had enough cretins polluting this board recently.

victorgarco wrote:mma is clearly a fake wum profile. surprised people are taking him seriously. He he a new account and the first thing he does is talk nonsense and tell people to sod off. obviously a fake wum profile.

You can sod off an all there!

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Just bore off, we've had enough cretins polluting this board recently.

Well then dont let the door hit you on the way out

What right does haye have for the fight mma? I dont believe he has earned the right anyway but also he isnt a number one contender with any of the organisations.

In ufc would the fight be arranged if he wasnt a contender? If so thats not really the correct way to go about it is it

severe-mma wrote:

victorgarco wrote:mma is clearly a fake wum profile. surprised people are taking him seriously. He he a new account and the first thing he does is talk nonsense and tell people to sod off. obviously a fake wum profile.

You can sod off an all there!

You must live a sad life if you get your thrills creating fake accounts on boxing forums to talk nonsense., a very very sad life.

You're a comedian too, i'll leave you be as I can feel my cognitive functions diminishing by conversing with you.

severe-mma wrote:He had a broken toe. Try fighting a full boxing match on a broken toe and tell me its not a problem. He was half crocked for the fight. Why aint either brother rushing back to fight him in England if they think its easy? Haye is easily the best heavyweight out there. Sick power, slick skills and superior speed. The Klitschkos are predictable and easy to read. Haye just couldnt fight his gameplan coz his movement was so restricted. No way the Klitschkos are living with Hayes power when hes fully fit.

severe-mma wrote:Great, you all seem to be judging him on one fight where he was crippled.

No, if you look again you'll see that I pointed out a few factors taking in to account their whole careers demonstrating that both Wladimir and Vitali deserve to be ranked as and called better fighters. You, however, continue to ignore them. As such, you're not really debating, just ranting instead. In short, you're bringing nothing to the table right now.

Better skills, more power, faster, greater movement......And still won three rounds out of twelve against Wladimir at best. "Broken toe", I'm sure you'll scream. Well, Larry Holmes held off Ken Norton in a classic with a torn bicep muscle. Nathan Cleverly, for all the criticism he gets, boxed a tough twelve rounds against Bellew with a cracked rib. Even Audley Harrison pulled out the win against Sprott with a torn pectoral muscle.

Not saying there's any disgrace in Haye losing convincincly to the best Heavyweight in the world, just putting the toe excuse in to some kind of context. At the end of the day, you can shout all you like, but Haye had his shot against Wladimir and was well beaten.

severe-mma wrote:Its obvious Haye is a better fighter. What are you judging it on? One fight where Haye was half crocked? Why were the Klitschkos happy to let Haye take care of the big iant for them? Haye put heavyweight boxing back on the map. Before he shook things up the division was boring as hell. Haye got people interested again.

And then let them down. Now, I'm quite a big Haye fan, and I do feel that his injury affected his performance somewhat, but Wlad is just too good at controlling distance. Haye might stand a chance at beating Wlad (by ko) one in ten, but that injury wasn’t the reason he didn’t beat him. It was, at most, the reason he put in such a disjointed and abject performance.

Still, I do think I’d back him to beat most of the other challengers out there. I do like Pulev though, I have to say.

severe-mma wrote:Haye has better skills, better movement, wicked power and is much faster. Great, you all seem to be judging him on one fight where he was crippled. Why didnt the Klitschkos step up and fight Valuev? Why wont they fight Haye in England if its such an easy fight? Dont say theres better out there than Haye. A fight with Vitali in England would be huge. Wlad Klitschko hit the jackpot with Haye being crippled for the fight and his big bro knows it so he dont want to fight him. This is one of the problems in boxing. In the UFC this fight would be made happen straight off. Not the fannying around that boxers can get away with. Hayes up for the fight so just get it on!

Braaap braaap. Gwaaan.

Victor im giving the benefit of the doubt as it is someone that is a fan of another sport that has come to the boards so may just be aware of the british press and head over to boxing for the more publised fights only

Face it, he had a broken toe. You can try ignore that all you want but its a fact!

A fully fit Haye beats any other heavyweight out there. Look at what he did to Chisora when he was on top of his game. Sashed him. Havent seen any other heavyweight smash Chisora like that. He also beat Valuev and almost flattened him. Didnt see the Klitschkos rushing to beat him either!

Mods/Admin, please do NOT remove this joker.

Another pointless, aimless post. I don't really want to waste any more time with you, Mr MMA, until you actually have something reasonable and thought out to say, and it'll be interesting to see if you're capable.

Ive commented about why neither brother fought valuev.

However you havent responded as to why he would get a fight in ufc for a world title when he isnt a number one contender. He hasnt fought regularly enough. Or earned the right for a rematch

He would get a fight in the UFC because hes clearly the best contender out there. The best fight the best in the UFC. In boxing the two Klitschkos get away with not fighting each other and then act like a tag team. It wasnt Vitali that fought Haye, it was his brother. If Vitali had any stones he would fight Haye and when Haye smashes him he will earn his rematch with his brother. Fully fit this time hopefully.

Good grief. How many examples are there of brothers fighting one another?

So you get a title fight on someones opinion in ufc? Not rankings? Not earning it? Sounds fair

In answer to the OP, I'd heavily favour Haye to beat everyone else right now. I know Chisora's know great shakes but he gave Vitali the toughest fight either Klistchko has had for years and Haye dismantled him dominantly and impressively.

Maybe Price with experience, but he looks a little robotic. I think Fury lacks a combination of whiskers, responsibility and sheer power to beat Haye.

Wilder and Mitchell are too open and Wilder hasn't fought anybody.

Povetkin too easy to hit.

There are a lot of ifs and buts in terms of any of those fights actually happening or Haye lowering him to fighting more than once every couple of years but he fought any of those guys I'd back him to win.

Plus this is boxing not ufc. So thats kind of irrelevant. Different sports.

Same here JBW. But he will lose to Wlad because Wlad is the better fighter.

severe-mma wrote:Face it, he had a broken toe. You can try ignore that all you want but its a fact!

A fully fit Haye beats any other heavyweight out there. Look at what he did to Chisora when he was on top of his game. Sashed him. Havent seen any other heavyweight smash Chisora like that. He also beat Valuev and almost flattened him. Didnt see the Klitschkos rushing to beat him either!

I saw something on the Discovery Channel where a scorpion tried to sting a meerkat but then the meerkat was all bitey and pouncy to the point where it kicked its arse but then I saw something else where a honey badger beat the coins out of a meerkat, however, I've heard that a big human can kick the head off a honey badger even though they're quite stocky. The thing is though the human then got stung by the scorpion and died all in a writhing heap and such.

See, I can make nonsense with letters too...

Look, Haye's a good heavyweight. He's fast, powerful, and skilled. And, yes, he was injured in the Wlad fight. It is, however, a huge lead to say that, barring that injury, he would have beaten Wlad. That's just, well, baseless.

severe-mma wrote:He would get a fight in the UFC because hes clearly the best contender out there. The best fight the best in the UFC. In boxing the two Klitschkos get away with not fighting each other and then act like a tag team. It wasnt Vitali that fought Haye, it was his brother. If Vitali had any stones he would fight Haye and when Haye smashes him he will earn his rematch with his brother. Fully fit this time hopefully.

Actually that is a nonsense. The UFC makes matches that sell. How else does a no-hoper like Chael Sonnen get to fight Bones Jones at a weight Sonnen has never competed in and after losing to Anderson and getting a gift of Bisping? His mouth.

Qoxiivi wrote:

severe-mma wrote:Face it, he had a broken toe. You can try ignore that all you want but its a fact!

A fully fit Haye beats any other heavyweight out there. Look at what he did to Chisora when he was on top of his game. Sashed him. Havent seen any other heavyweight smash Chisora like that. He also beat Valuev and almost flattened him. Didnt see the Klitschkos rushing to beat him either!

I saw something on the Discovery Channel where a scorpion tried to sting a meerkat but then the meerkat was all bitey and pouncy to the point where it kicked its arse but then I saw something else where a honey badger beat the coins out of a meerkat, however, I've heard that a big human can kick the head off a honey badger even though they're quite stocky. The thing is though the human then got stung by the scorpion and died all in a writhing heap and such.

See, I can make nonsense with letters too...

Look, Haye's a good heavyweight. He's fast, powerful, and skilled. And, yes, he was injured in the Wlad fight. It is, however, a huge lead to say that, barring that injury, he would have wiped the floor with Wlad. That's just, well, baseless.

I've seen a honey badger fight off a lion and a couple of hyenas. Random I know. But so is this new dude.

That toe injury didnt prevent him from running away all night.