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Cipriani

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king_carlos
robshaw4england
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Post by robshaw4england Mon 24 Dec 2012, 2:19 pm

I personally think Cipriani can be a fantastic player, especially on the front foot. He made a huge mistake signing for Sale, a club he thought could help reignite his England career. Instead Sale have done the complete opposite. The Sale forwards have been pathetic providing Cipriani and the Sale backs with little attacking ball in good positions. The criticism against Cipriani by Mitchell and Kennedy has been ridiculous. He is the sort of player who needs support and careful management.

If Cipriani wants to fulfil his potential there are two clubs I feel he should seriously consider joining, Northampton or Bath. Saints are crying out for a world class pivot. Lamb is inconsistent, on his day he can be a very exciting player to watch, however he can be absolutely abysmal. Myler is nothing more than an average 10, a solid club player and a good backup option. Another option would be for Cipriani to join Bath, a team very much on the up, they have a very strong squad, but just lack experience together and a world class fly half. Donald has been absolutely woeful and it's obvious Bath are looking to replace him as soon as possible. Cipriani has also never had a poor game at the rec, he seems to thrive playing there.

All the other premiership sides have very good fly halves - Leicester (Flood/Ford), Gloucester (Burns), Quins (Evans, Botica, Clegg), Exeter (Mieres, Steenson) Saracens (Hodgson/Farrell), whilst his old club Wasps have the Welsh 10's Jones and Robinson to choose from. The like of Irish, Worcester or L.Welsh would not be a good career choice.

What are your thoughts? Should Cipriani stick it out and stay at struggling Sale, a team where he clearly doesn't fit in. Or should he join a side such as Bath or Northampton which could potentially reignite his international career, giving Cipriani far more ball on the front foot?

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Post by king_carlos Mon 24 Dec 2012, 2:52 pm

Personally I think the struggles he's consistently had behind the Sale pack just highlight the issues he's failed to address. I know it's tough for any FH to play behind a struggling pack, but the best find a way to operate and keep their side in the game wherever possible. In these situations Cipriani tends to capitulate by trying to force things and making errors.

Also his defence hasn't improved one jot - probably gone downhill since leaving Wasps and Shaun Edwards actually. I don't deny he's talented and a very good front foot attacking player but Until he sorts out his defence and game management he'll keep having poor games pretty regularly.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 24 Dec 2012, 2:57 pm

Playing for Sale may make him a better player for a few reasons:

He will presumably have to defend a lot more playing for a team on the back foot. This has often been highlighted as a weakness in his game.

It may make him more grounded which he was also struggled with in the past.

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 24 Dec 2012, 3:40 pm

Talent or no talent, I don't see why Cipriani should be exempt of criticism as with any player. He plays a scrutinised position and while the forwards might not be making life any easier, you can't justly claim he's rendered completely useless purely down to them. He's a live player, not some object that needs to be used correctly and can be pardoned his fair share of responsibility.

I'm certain I've seen games in the past where packs have been practically mauled, yet the same sides have still managed to win mainly due to having a cohesive set of backs. In other words it isn't a fatalism that teams are doomed unless they have a strong forward platform. Surely it's saying something about Cips himself that he has added little if anything since arriving. If anything Sale look arguably worse for it.

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Post by GunsGerms Mon 24 Dec 2012, 4:14 pm

France v Australia Nov '10 for example. France dominated Aus in the forwards in particular in the scrum however, the Aussie backs were so good they ended up hammering France. Rarelyhappens though.

Mind you Leinster over the last few seasons have been very sucessful without hardly ever dominating possession.

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Post by MotelMoneyMurderMadness Mon 24 Dec 2012, 4:30 pm

He needs to shed his spice boy image for a start, spend less time in the nightclubs & maybe a little more time on the training field improving his defence.

He's a different player than Wilkinson, but could do with taking a leaf from his book: shun the limelight & work hard. But I doubt he will and I reckon Johnson, the blokes in Melbourne and now John Mitchell - they can't all be wrong about the lad can they?

The really sad thing is, before he knows it, he will over the hill & not even a has been.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 24 Dec 2012, 4:37 pm

Cipriani doesn't deserve anything to be given to him. I'd be very surprised if a top club would be interested in him as he constantly fails to deliver.

He should drop down to the Championship and look to put some graft in.

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Post by Knowsit17 Mon 24 Dec 2012, 4:54 pm

Our (Wales') game against the Aussies the same year is another example. The Aussie scrum picked apart, retreating at a rate of knots all afternoon and yet they still won by a handy margin crafted by the superiority of their backs.

Just goes to show that having a functioning forwards' platform can go a long way to deciding a game but isn't what necessarily determines the result. In the same breathe I don't see how that signifies total displacement of responsibility from the halfbacks, on the contrary they have a role to help establish cohesion through the backs if the forwards fail. For this reason you'd have to say that Cipriani is not up to standard, especially when you take into consideration his ineptitude in the tackle.

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